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936 Comments on “A White Picket Fence — Discussion

  1. Good Morning Girls…I’m bringing this back to the top, I’m getting lost. I agree that Lina had an adult filter, but like several of you I had those “what should Lina say moments”, based on my own sadistic personality..Lol…The “I didn’t think you cared comment”, made me aggravated at Phil. I felt he was pouting over Lina taking up for Logan. In that moment, if Lina’s filter wasn’t in tact, I would of said “you will not push Kim’s son on mine.” Can you imagine how that would of went over. So proud of Lina though, handling it the way she did. The more of read SN, I see that Phil was mad at Logan, but I also see his concern for him as well. Chapter 2 when he saw the pain in Logan’s eyes, when he asked Phil if he would ever cheat on Lina again. The Raven’s scene where he expressed his concern to Mike about Logan not looking at Liam. Phil said “Logan’s the one I’m worried about.” Even thought Phil was upset with Logan, I wonder if he ever thought can I earn my son’s respect back? The part where Logan said I wish you weren’t my father and the car scene where Logan made the direct hit with “The kind of man that would of had him in the first place.” That would of made me think even through my anger, what have I lost…It hurt Phil, but it also woke him up to the true hurt he caused his son.

    Laura where you be sister????

    • One of things I like best about Swimming Naked is the complex relationship between Phil and Logan. I think most teenage boys have a complex relationship with their fathers to start with. They want some level of independence but still need parenting.

      Phil and Logan’s relationship gets so much harder because of the affair and Liam. A big part of the issue is Phil demanding respect, at this point Logan isn’t going to give it—he’s hurt for Lina, he’s mad at Phil, he’s jealous of Liam. The reality is Phil can demand respect all he wants, but needs to earn it back, by treating Lina with respect, by understanding Logan’s anger and showing Logan he doesn’t need to be jealous of Liam—Liam isn’t a replacement.

        • I posted below that I thought it was passive aggressive more than snarky. He’s also passive aggressive when he asks Lina about finishing the nursery–I think that comment aggravated me much more than the “I didn’t think you cared” one.

          Even though she offered to do the nursery, he should have been much more sensitive to that being a very difficult task for her–particularly knowing how Logan reacted to it. He wanted to have Liam become part of Lina and his family and that really expecting a lot from all of them.

          Even after all this time and multiple rereads, Phil can still piss me off 🙂

          • Tara, see my reply to your earlier comment below! In my first comment I couldn’t think of the term passive aggressive so I used snarky, but you’re right it was totally passive aggressive grrrr ?

        • I was more peeved off when Kim and Phil couldn’t look after Liam and they just assume Lina must drop what she’s doing to look after their child.
          Phil was an asshole towards Lina. I wouldn’t have kept my mouth shut. “You two wanted to sleep together without protection, you chose kim and trusted her. Now you two need to wake up and deal with situations like this. I’ve sacrificed more than enough”.

          • Since Lina’s nicer than all of us, I think Laura had Lina deal with that perfectly. If she could help, she did, but she put Phil in his place when she couldn’t, and he wouldn’t put her in that position again.

      • Hi Tara,
        I agree with everything you just said. Phil at times demanded respect when he was not deserving of it especially when it came to Logan. Phil’s behavior (affair) towards Lina was disrespectful, unprotected sex being prime example and Logan knew that. Logan I think knew that Phil took Kim to Steamboat-how is Logan supposed to respect that? Also once Kim inserted herself in their lives, Logan’s mind probably exploded. How could his dad get involved with a woman like that? I am glad Logan challenged Phil and channeled some of the anger we all felt on behalf of Lina who who was way more restrained in her anger. I really felt for Logan especially when he told Phil “everyone knows what you did” and Phil responded he didn’t care about everyone. I wanted to break Phil’s brain and other body parts in that scene. I know Phil was angry but really?
        Ok, come down Holley, remember the whole Phil in SN.

        • I think he understood and cared, but would never own that. He had to be beaten over the head to understand the affair as much more far reaching. Was the supermarket scene before or after the car confrontation with Logan?

      • I worried about that relationship constantly while Laura was writing SN Tara…Janet, Ann and Laura can testify to that….I would feel like Liam was getting all of Phil’s attention and I would come in with a comment and Laura would promise me Logan would be fine and Phil loved him too….Lol….I guess I had such a deep passion for Logan because of his big heart….I could feel his pain through Laura’s writing. I liked the part in SN, where Phil told Lina, that Logan wasn’t as sensitive as what she thought he was that he had the same blood pumping through his veins that he did…I believe that too! Logan was all boy, he was pissed at Phil and I don’t think Logan knew what to do with the anger, until he blew up in the car scene. I think Phil knew at that moment he could never force Logan into accepting Liam, it would have to be Logan’s choice. Phil also realized that others could possibly label Liam as well….

      • Yes, Tracie always asked Laura about Logan and Liam.

        Also, I don’t think Phil was being passive aggressive. I think he was his usual selfish bonehead! Gah! And as I said before, Logan deserves a book before Liam because of all the reasons you all have said here. The affair affected this teenager more deeply than the others and he had the hardest time coming to terms with the betrayal. It really could have gone the other way. And for all intents and purposes, Liam was loved from day one by Phil then by Lina soon after. He is a baby, therefore resilient, and wouldn’t remember the trauma he endured at the sitters house. Plus, if he is just like Phil and if he inherited even 1/100th of Kim’s traits, then God help the people of Maryland.
        I don’t feel sorry for Liam but have sympathy for Logan because the experience has changed/shaped him and it will stay with him for life.

        • I kind of feel sorry for Liam. There will be people that talk about his birth, just like Phil pointed out to Logan in the walk scene. Yes he is a Hunter, but people will talk about him not being Lina’s son. Point in case, two Sunday’s ago after church, we stopped at the cafe to eat lunch. We were leaving and a lady that goes to our church screamed for Tom to come help her eight year old daughter that was setting in the backseat of the car. The little girl had wrapped the unbuckled seat belt around her neck, she leaned forward and the seat belt locked and the little girl was choking. Tom cut the seat belt with his pocket knife, because he couldn’t get enough slack in the belt to loosen it. Well I mentioned it to my daughter-in-law and she said who??? I mentioned the mom and dads name and she said that isn’t those girls dad, that’s why she’s divorced. She had an affair and that is so and so’s kid. I said just in case your wondering the little girl is Okay….Lol….People can’t help it….

          • Ok. I changed my mind. I feel bad for everyone including Phil but everyone will be OK. Too bad we are living in modern times and Kim cant be stoned to death.
            I was saying Logan because he would make a great damaged hero.

            Tracie, your husband is all man and a hero! Who carries a pocket knife anymore. Lol

          • Janet… pocket knife… my husband, son, BIL, nephew… just saying ?

            Tracie… your hubby is a hero ?

          • In the car scene, I don’t think Logan is judging Liam, he’s judging Phil and Phil deserves it. But, even after Phil takes the walk with him to discuss it, Phil forces the respect thing… you are part of this family…

          • Janet… I don’t feel sorry for Phil, these are his consequences. He screwed up, it’s forgivable, he can be redeemed—but feel sorry, not so much. My sympathies will always be with Lina and all the children, Megan pushes a few buttons, but I even feel sorry for her.

  2. Everytime I’m trying to reply a thread I’m being redirected to the bottom ‘leave a reply’ section…
    Yes Janet I understand..Everyone can have their own Phill and Lina ..I just expressed my version..

  3. How about Tana Ramsay being Lina? Their eldest daughter’s name is also meghan..but I get Meghan vibes from their second daughter Holly.Keeping aside the looks I think Ramsays could be Hunters except Gordon being an excellent chef..i also gr8 Logan vibes from his son jack…and Gordon and tana had a baby boy recently..

    • I’m not familiar with Gordon Ramsay’s wife or kids. But that’s ok if she’s your Lina. I think we all have diff Lina and Phils and that’s fun.

      • Janet – i saw your post regarding baobab powder. i can’t say I’ve used it. I see there’s tons of benefits. Not sure what benefit you looking for. Let me know if there’s any difference in the skin part.

        I’m doing this weightloss challenge with work. I’ve dropped about 6.8kgs about 15 pounds in 6 weeks. They’ve been giving us samples of natural products, I’m busy using hemp and moringa powder. All i know, my sleeping pattern have improved. No longer waking up at funny hours. Think its the moringa powder. my sister even swears by it.

        Still 5kgs to go then I’ll be happy 🙂

  4. Girls I have a “What do you think Question.” After the first night Liam spent the night, Lina was in the bathroom when Phil came in and Lina asked about his night. Phil said Liam was fine when he put Liam in bed with him. Lina thought to herself that she hated the thought, because it was like a part of Kim was in their bed.

    Question: What do you think Phil’s reaction would of been to her voicing that thought? Would he be hurt, mad or maybe even thinking Lima would never except Liam into their family with that thought pattern.

    • Hey Tracie,
      I think Phil would have been sad with a feeling that Liam was going to be an issue for Lina for the rest of her life. I don’t see him being mad over this, after all Lina had shown great support in finally bringing Liam into the family and she had forgiven something most wouldn’t.
      Phil even said in that scene he would not have brought Liam in their bed if Lina had an issue with it. He understood she had already shown great selflessness.

      • I agree, he would feel hurt, but also frustrated and would probably let Lina know it…remember when on the second visit after Phil dropped a Liam off at Kim’s Lina said that she had wanted to say bye to Liam, Phil said something like “I didn’t think you cared”, he was kind of snarky, because earlier in that visit when Phil came home and wanted to get changed Lina didn’t offer to watch Liam while he got changed…at that point I thought Phil was asking way too much of Lina way too soon…in her place he would never have even allowed his spouse’s love child into his home, yet he expected Lina to just up and bond with Liam and accept him like he wasn’t a result of Phil’s betrayal…he needed a nice smack in the head in that scene (not in the scene you’re talking about Tracie, in the one where he said “I didn’t think you cared”)…oooh Phil is so lucky he isn’t married to me, once I was through with him he’d run away from home never to be seen again just to escape my wrath…he got sooo lucky when he found Lina

        • omg LOL I didn’t read it that way. Was Phil snarky? LOL There he goes again with the get over it attitude. Well, we can’t fault him for staying true to his character. In truth, it probably was half frustration and half helplessness.

          I think you and I are alike(being Libra and all). You know what I went through my head when Lina saw Kim/Liam in her bed? I thought, Lina, ask Phil right now why he didn’t answer your call that night when he was in NYC. You couldn’t sleep at midnight so you called him but he never answered your call and texted instead. Phil is so lucky. You be right gurl.

          • LOL Janet…maybe snarky isn’t the right word, but there was a definite bite to what he said..I didn’t like it ? Youre so right Janet, you and I don’t like to let him off the hook too easily, plus I just feel like when he suffers emotionally it kind of balances the scales a little, since he put Lina through so much (so totally Libra! Haha)

            Janet I don’t remember that part? Is that the night they had the argument over the phone and he slept with Kim for the first time? Did Lina try to get ahold of him again later that night and he didn’t answer? If so I’m gonna get mad all over again cause I don’t remember that part ??

          • oh no no. Sorry! I made up the scene. I was imagining the questions i would ask Phil.

            I loved reading about Phil suffering. That probably makes me sound evil but it made my heart sing every time Phil showed remorse or guilt. One chapter Phil jealous. Then another chapter Phil worshipping Lina. Then Kim making Phil suffer. Repeat. bejus.

          • Oh ok lol! I was like I need to go back and reread that part! Lol…Janet back when I was still fuming over Phil’s actions, (for quite a few months after I read the books), I had sooo many me-as-Lina convos with him in my head…In some of them I (Lina) was calm, in others I let him have it…and there’s nothing wrong with wanting him to suffer!! It’s perfectly natural! I think what is far worse is to bottle things up or try to brush them off like they don’t bother you…some people are more cerebral and less intense than others, but if you are intense emotionally (I know I am lol) then you’re only hurting yourself by denying your true feelings…I’m not mad at Phil anymore (though it took me a while), but I will ALWAYS be happy to read about him suffering and regretting what he did to Lina and their kids lol

          • I mean this not as a reader, but more if I was in Lina’s shoes…like if that happened to me, I wouldn’t try to brush it off or be so quick to immediately forgive, because I know that then the anger would never really go away…I’d need to express it to my satisfaction lol (I can’t say that he’s stick around for that thought)…

          • I think if he knew how Lina felt in that moment, he would have been devastated. He’d feel sad that Lina felt that way, he’d have been mad at himself for bringing Kim into their lives, and he would have realized sooner how difficult Liam’s life could be. But Lina has a grownup filter and kept her thoughts to herself and gave herself time to accept Liam—at that point Liam is still somewhat abstract, not a sweet baby that needs the love and attention of a dad and mom.

            Phil’s comment doesn’t come across as snarky to me, more passive aggressive. I’m not even sure he wasn’t being his honest self—unlike Lina his filter isn’t as strong.

        • Miri – when Phil said “i didn’t think you cared”. Wasnt it after a scene where there was issue with Logan? Then Lina went with Phil to drop Liam off and mentioned she didn’t like the distance between them? Think Phil was fustrated all round and Lina sticking up for Logan. Think he was more fustrated and upset at the situation he put his family in and alpha Phil will express most of his hidden feelings through anger. I don’t think he honestly believed in the words he spoke outloud. That’s if those words were said after Logan incident.

          • Tara, yes! That’s what I was thinking but couldn’t think of the word – he said it in a passive aggressive way – snarky was the wrong word ?

            BeeSa I thought he said it after liam’s Second visit, but I could be wrong? I remember Phil being disappointed because Lina wasn’t super engaged with Liam yet

        • Miri – Phil said that comment “didn’t think you cared” on the second visit. He and Logan had a fight and then Phil demanded Logan sits at the table for dinner. Lina was upset and told Logan he didn’t have to then he and Lina has an arguement and that comment was made when Phil was leaving for Kim house.

    • Gosh, that scene was hard to read Tracie. I agree with Holley. Phil wouldn’t have been mad. He would have felt helpless I think. Here he is trying to keep his promise of always putting Lina before everyone but Liam is his baby. Argggh. I hate him for putting Lina in this situation but not much he can do. It was such an emotional scene and I had a knot in my chest the whole time.

      I just finished Penelope Ward’s new one. That was angsty too. I don’t know why she always writes in a fiance when the MCs have a past.

      Laura, just out of curiosity, did Phil prose to Lina on his knees? I can’t see him doing that. Maybe I can see him proposing while they are dancing since that’s their thing?

      I’m in a weird funk after finishing Ward’s book. So glad authors have power to do this to readers but I need a happy NA jock novel now.

    • Hi Hinata! I had to look her up lol…personally I don’t see it…Lina is a head turner, this Ramsay lady is pretty but boring and doesn’t stand out to me …check out Diane Lane! ???

  5. Hi! Has anyone read ‘the secrets in forever’ by CT Jackson and Terrence Trafton? It looks like it’s gonna be one of those that gets me super pissed at the husband – good times! Lol ????

    • Miri – i don’t know how you can read all these books with assholes husband in them. I’m single, so i need to mix them up and read a book boyfriend book now and again, otherwise i may just write off men altogether and start chasing the ladies.

      If you ever need to read a book with a nice man, then read the book suggested by Janet – The guy on the right. I’d marry him and have his babies.

      • BeeSa, I never used to read them until I read Laura’s! Now I’m totally hooked on the angst ? but I do try to read a good-hero book here and there try to regain my equilibrium lolll

    • Miri, I read the sample. Who is the mistress? I don’t like to return books so I don’t want to buy it unless it’s worth it.

      • Hi Janet, SPOILER ALERT: so actually the husband is a serial cheater and there are many women he slept with, and he got someone he knew and kept in touch with from college pregnant (twice – the first time he convinced her to get an abortion and the second one she wanted to keep)…the husband is completely irredeemable, BUT the heroine DOES have a HEA (with someone else)…

        Another book I just read/skimmed through is Maggie’s Turn, by Deanna Lynn sletten..the wife runs away for a little while to get away from her ungrateful husband and kids (the husband had previously had an affair)…it’s on KU so if you don’t like it you can return ???❤️

        • Thanks Miri! I read that sample and the husband gave off bad slimy used car sales guy vibe. Why would a professor from Columbia marry such a loser when everyone around hates him? LOL.

          • Janet you’re right the husband was a total slime ball…he wasn’t in her league at all, so in the end he lost her and she went on to someone much better ??? (and the loser stayed with his cheating partner/baby mama bleh…he’s a serial cheater, he can’t not cheat, does she think he’ll be different with her??)

        • You keep rec’ing books, and I keep reading them. Finished Maggie’s Turn. I liked Maggie and the children, he couldn’t beg forgiveness enough. Once he knows the truth about how she found out, he needed to go.

          I didn’t read the serial cheater, that’s something I couldn’t get past. I’m glad to hear the character moved on to a better relationship.

          I’m not a fan of Goalie because of the years of serial cheating. I get it, it’s explained, he fixes it, but again for me it speaks to a moral compass issue.

  6. Bee, I saw your comment about eye color… I mostly agree… My daughter has amazing, huge, almond-shaped brown eyes. The shape is from me, but mine are green, and hers are wayyy more beautiful. She gets more comments on them than I ever have. Of course I’m biased. Just saying, brown eyes can be absolutely gorgeous.

    • Katie – i also have big brown eyes and naturally thick black eyelashes and eyebrows but I’d give it all up for green eyes. You are lucky! Green eyes are unique.

      People take notice of my eyes but only because they big. I used to be called nagapie (bushbaby) when i was growing up.

      Seriously, green eyes are so unique and stunning, that’s why i prefer Lina to have the green eyes.

    • I say MC too bc Noah made me mad when he had the phone off. I put myself in Lydia’s shoes and I could never ever forgive that. I was really bothered by it.

      Now, I need to reread SP West to see how I was ok with the husband at the end.

      Bee, your cousin is cute!! Is he from South Africa?

      • What book os Noah from?

        Janet – yes, but he’s been bouncing around different countries. His brother, Bryce lives in USA. Their sister and parents still live in SA. They often fly to see their mother. I always see her posting family photos on FB. They seem to drag her on long motorbike rides in the Western Cape.

  7. When books make you cry.

    I’m not an emotional person at all but books bring out the water works.

    What books have made you cry lately?

    Janet’s book – That guy on the right by Kate Stewart. Book had me laughing out loud most of the time but it didn’t bring on the water works.

    Jack & Jill series by Jewel E Ann. I even had to put the book down because i needed to clean my face. Loved this series. AJ was my hero in this book. There was a few laugh out loud moments between the sibilings, old man Dodge and how he chirps his wife. She had a stroke, he sounds mean but deep down he’s not.

    I’m off to make myself angry now with a book called Unforgiven.

    • Is this by Elizabeth Finn? I loved that one. I was livid after reading The Affair. It made me think- how can I forgive a man if something major was happening at home and he was out at another woman’s house?

      • Unforgiven by Elizabeth Finn? I think it’s on my TBR list…gonna take a look, maybe I’ll start it next ?

        • Unforgiven – been reading unforgiven. Quite a long drawn out book. Haven’t finished yet but feels like I’m reading the same pages over and over.

          • Who is the author please? I started Friends w/o Benefits. The Affair is by Nick’s Strycharz(Noah is the cheating husband)

  8. Ladiiiiieees!!!! Ladies!! I can’t believe it took me this long!! How did I not see this before?!?! ??‍♀️
    I FINALLY know who I would cast as Lina…(I know Laura said Bridget Moynahan, and I respect that), but I finally realized that I see her as a young Diane Lane…not as blonde teen Diane Lane (late 70’s) but more 20’s and onward Diane Lane (like maybe early to mid 80’s, think the Outsiders, and onward, when she was a brunette and out of her teens)…I know she has blue eyes but in some pics they look brown…but she is totally Lina for me I realize now…all this time I couldn’t quite picture Lina 100%, until I came across a pic of Diane today and thought, that’s Lina!!! What do you girls think??

    • LOL. I agree! I threw Diane’s name here before too. Basically anyone beautiful. Diane Lane In Unfaithful or Kate beckinsale. And Katie to me is Kristen Stewart. Logan is not Shawn mended bc Shawn is a happy goof and John hamm is not Phil to me either. Lol. I keep going back to those Marlboro man model for Phil. How about Megan?

        • Murlene – he’s hot but he has that pretty boy / baby face going on and i picture Phil being the opposite. He could be closer to a Nick with shaggy lighter hair.

      • Right?! Diane is not only beautiful but also has that classy quiet confident vibe that Lina has ?? almost mysterious

        • Sorry, the above was in response to Janet re Diane Lane…did her ex cheat on her? How stupid can a man be?? But then again Phil cheated on Lina so….

      • Janet – Didn’t really think about Megan since she only appeared in a few pages.

        was think Levi Lomey as Logan but there’s a photo of him in a leather jacket, so could see him as Katie man. Forgot what colour hair he has. His name Matt? Gone blank on his character.

    • Miri, also google Kelly Wearsteler. She’s a famous interior designer here and could be another dead ringer for Lina. We think highly of Lina. Diane, Kelly, Kate. haha. And Diane’s real life daughter can be Megan imo. hahaha

      • Janet I think I’m familiar with her, I have an interior design board on Pinterest and I think some of her work is on there…she’s actually super gorgeous and very classic looking…I think she lives in LA!! Lemme go double check…btw how awesome is Pinterest?! I have like a hundred boards going haha! Oh and Lina’s also an interior designer so she and Kelly also have that in common! Lolll

        • This is for Miri and Tara. I couldn’t stand it so I went back and read the rest of the Affair last night. Noah turning the phone off all night really bothered me. I got so mad my hives came back. I didn’t understand all 4 characters but I wanted to literally kill Noah.

          Miri, yes, Kelly is LA. I’ve visited her office before and she’s soft spoken like Lina with slanted eyes and slim frame. Diane lane I love but Diane is a sexy goddess. I read an article once where she said she has lovers in different cities. Lol. Yes, Christopher Lambert allegedly cheated and has a hot temper. Similar with Josh Brolin- according to US Weekly. Lol

          • Omg you’ve met her?? Her work is amaaaazing and uber creative!! I remember about 3 years ago I went through a KW Pinterest phase lol, I remember it because my bro’s gf at the time was studying interior design and I asked if she’d heard of her…do you have anything of hers? She has these super cool chairs I saw online…sigh Toronto is so boring ?
            Josh brolin is sex on a stick but I totally get a cheater vibe from him bleh…but they looked so yummy together sigh
            Anyway if it’s in us weekly then it’s definitely true LOL ? (but actually they usually do get things right ?)

          • Janet to me Noah is just a lost cause…but no worries because Lorenzo takes up his slack AND can cook like a dream ???

          • Also Janet, is KW tall? I see Lina as being around 5”6, but it’s hard to tell with KW because she’s so slim

          • Bee, I googled Levi L. He’s super cute. Definitely Matt. That other model I mentioned, Christian Hogue can be Logan or Liam.

            Murlene, I’ll look up David G. I’ve never heard of him.

            Miri, kelly is short. Around 5’3. And tiny, like a ballerina. No, I don’t have anything of hers. Her stuff is very modern.

            Did you like Lorenzo? I felt like he was a beta hero.

          • Janet – Christian Hogue could even be Nick son – got that shaggy surfer hair and muscle body going on. I picture Logan being tall and bit on the smaller muscles / lanky build side. I think Liam wil be shorter than Logan just a tad bit stocky build.

            Levi actually a distance family of mine (our granddad’s are brothers) but I’m only in contact with his mother. He’s has that darker edge to him even in his everday photos i see. I picture katie man as a goodlooking guy, doesn’t really have muscles but has a dark look to him like Levi. Levi does enjoy his motorbikes.

            Miri – i like how you mentioned 5″6 being tall. I’m 169cm and according to google that’s about 5″6. I don’t feel tall more on the average side.

            I was jealous that Kim has the green eyes and Lina has boring brown eyes like me. Glad she has big and slanted eyes at least because brown can never beat green or blue eyes.

          • Janet, Noah is an absolute lost cause! He has no real moral compass, he was all about appearance with no substance.

          • Janet Lorenzo is the most alpha guy in the book, but compared to other book alpha heroes I can kind of see what you mean…but he had no problem knocking Noah around so we gotta give him points for that haha!

            BeeSa yes 5”6 is tall to me lol…I’m 5”3 and A HALF (and yes the half is very important!! Lol), but I usually just lie and say I’m 5”4…but I know ladies who are much shorter than me who claim to be 5”4, so my 5”3 1/2 is the real deal ??
            It used to bother me when I was younger but later on I came to appreciate being petite…
            for some reason I imagined you being on the taller side and I was right…I think its cause you mentioned all your outdoor activities or something lol..not that you need to be tall for that but I just had the impression of tall(er) lol…

          • Miri – i like how you give yourself an extra half an inch to be 5’4 but doctors can’t even give me an extra 1 cm to be 170cm. When i had an op last year, i was told I’m 169cm. like really? Extra 1cm not even the length of my pinky nail.

            Being short not bad since you never have to worry about being taller than your man. I refuse to date a guy shorter than me and i like to wear heels which range between 3 to 4 inches high. I’m happy with my height, i can reach the top shelf 😉

    • Hmmm, maybe. I still prefer Adriana Lima without the heavy eye make-up and she needs brown eyes.

      My Phil is Dylan Mcdermott – he’s hot, got a grumpy look going and gets better with age *swoon*. He just needs more beef on him. He can join me for swimming training. That will give him a bigger upper body build. I’ll provide happy endings as well 🙂

      • BeeSa I love Adriana Lima but I can’t see her as Lina for some reason…she’s absolutely stunning but I see Lina as more of a reserved quiet beauty and Adriana’s kind of like va va voom! Lol

        • Miri – I’m thinking more of the eyes as Lina’s but with no makeup. They are stunning without makeup. Not so much her lips. They looking a bit fake lately.

          I always picture Lina having a natural beauty without makeup and her features still striking, whereas Kim needs makeup to enhance her features which she does. Kim also needs to have that resting bitch face look. Janet mentioned Charlize Theron, which works for me.

          So I’m still looking for my Lina.

          • BeeSa Lina took me the longest to figure out also…Laura says a young Bridget moynahan…for Kim I see Ali Larter when she was in the movie Obssessed (with Beyoncé)…check out the trailer, you’ll see what I mean ??
            Oh and I see what you mean about AL’s lips looking fuller…which is weird because they used to be so big and then I guess they shrunk a bit over time? In the 90’s they were very full but I believe they were natural (we’re so detail oriented lol)

          • Miri – I’ve seen that movie. If i was the hubby, i would cheat on Beyonce for Ali Larter then divorce her and burn all her CDs. Sorry, i can’t stand her music since her girl groupie days. Too much screeching for my ears.

            Ali my idol for ladies like me who have small boobs. Kim could be her. I wouldn’t put it past her to get fake boobs since Kim has big boobs.

            Ali also played in Heroes series. Think there was two sides to her – good and evil. Old series but think she appeared in season 1 and 2.

          • BeeSa I ran into Ali Larter a few times maybe 8 or so years ago? When she was filming a movie in Toronto with Milla Jovovich…I’d put her at around 5”8 or so, and she wasn’t too thin or anything, both she and Milla were surprisingly healthy and stong looking..and both had small busts…there are a ton of beautiful ladies who are on the smaller side up top..??

  9. Ladies, has anyone read Marci Bolden’s Friends Without Benefits?

    This one I liked, not a traditional HEA, but it thoroughly worked for me.

    I’ve been on an insane reading binge. For the last 6 weeks my son has been working a 3-11 shift, I can’t sleep until he’s home, I crash and burn sleep on the days he’s off.

    • That’s Mama’s love! Is your son leaving in Sept?

      I’ll get the book. It feels a bit like groundhog’s day with one cheating book after another, doesn’t it?

      • You’re so right. We are chasing a high that only Laura could supply. I went to cheating books after feeling like my age gaps were blending into each other. I think it’s time to change things up again.

      • He’s commuting for the fall semester, I can’t tell you how happy I am that he’s going to still be home with us!

        It is like Groundhog Day!

        I liked this one more than some of the others we’ve read recently.

      • I think it’s a merry-go-round of books because we’re hoping for a HEA with strong characters and storytelling that makes sense. I think it’s a unicorn, we’ve found it and just keep searching for another.

        • Exactly.

          You sound just like my mom. She still makes me call her when I get home from wherever late at night. I’m 35!

    • Tara I just read the blurb, it sounds really good! Similar to The Affair that we just read (where the spouses of the cheaters get together)…going on my TBR list, thanks! ???

  10. Ladies! I forgot to mention, for all the Mariana Zapata lovers on here, she just came out with a new book ???? haven’t read it yet but I plan to soon!

    • Miri, the book is called once more with feeling. I started last night and it’s good so far. Thanks Bee!

      Let me know about zapata. Sounds good but it’s too hot for a slow burn. Lol. I think Tara read it over the weekend.

      • Janet you’re right, Zapata books are great in the winter time lol

        Will check out the one you just mentioned ?? thanks! ?❤️

    • I read the Zapata over the weekend, it’s good but like most of her books, I thought it was too long. She creates great characters.

      • Tara she’s one of my faves….but yeah sometimes we get stuck in the characters’ thoughts for too-long stretches

        • That’s my only issue, I think she needs an editor willing to use a red pen through at least 50 pages per book. But, I can honestly say, I’ve enjoyed just about all her books.

          • Katie – i loves kulti but not ‘once more with feelings’ good book but raised my blood pressure. Also didn’t really care for any of the characters.

  11. New cheating book alert: The Affair by Nicole Strycharz. I read her other book The Divorce. Can’t remember the details but her writing wasn’t that good. I think you get 4 perspectives. It came out today

      • I did too. But she starts out by saying the act of cheating is not hurtful. The lie is what’s hurtful. What? Hmm, I’m in a judgey mood today. We shall see.

        • Right there with you, I’m hoping it’s semantics, cheating is the lie? At 10% I can tell Noah’s an ass and I’m going to like Lorenzo.

          • Tara I had to stop at 26%. Can’t get to it till tonight my time. Did you like it? It hasn’t grabbed me yet. Not angsty or anxious yet

          • Tracie I can tell it’s a diff type of HEA.

            Also, this is a random question but did anyone read True Love Story by Willow Aster? I loved it but i think mostly because of his grovel letters. I read it again last night and it’s still unclear why Ian cheated for 2 yrs. I know he was insecure and came from an abused home. He was sabotaging his relationship with Sparrow. But he kept going back to the OW when he didn’t even like her. That part still bothers me.

          • The Affair—I liked it with a but, so I’ll wait for you to finish. Lydia has tremendous growth through the story, that made it worth reading. Noah’s definitely an ass an Lorenzo is a keeper.

            True Love Story = read, but not a fan. I read it awhile ago, I don’t understand long term cheating.

            Tracie—HEA but different.

          • I’m not sure I will finish. I skimmed and read the ending including the Q and A with the author. I don’t get her reasoning. She said put yourself in a room with perfect 10s and would you be tempted to cheat? I disagree with her reasoning here. These are choices you make before you get married so her examples didn’t make sense. Noah just lies and lies. And Lorenzo just takes and takes Ruby’s lies. I like cheating books to see if the couple can beat the odds and stay together. that wasn’t the case here and the writing isn’t gripping enough for me to finish. Hate liars!

    • Oh this looks good! ? gonna check it out…I’m currently reading ‘I can be a better you’ by Tarryn Fisher…it’s actually pretty interesting..not your typical cheating book…

      Janet I’m back from Boston, lover the hotel, thanks again for the recommendation ???? ps did you know it used to be a prison?! How cool is that lol

      • Welcome back Miri!! No on prison! I just told husband to bring back lots of Molton Brown amenities. They gave him full sizes! Did they party over the weekend?

        I like Tarryn Fisher. It’s a cheating book? Will check it out!

        • Lol yeah there was a whole prison theme, with bars on windows in the lobby and stuff haha…Boston was awesome, we did/saw as much as humanly possible…their little Italy is awesome!! ….and there’s even a casino that was modelled after the Wynn in Vegas ? lotsa fun but my luck sucked haha

          So, a great quote from the book (after the wife finds out)…”it was a rough realization that the life you were living was not beautiful, but underhanded and secretive. And the person you loved the most was striking you with blows you couldn’t feel yet”…
          Wow..this is my first book by her but now I’m hooked! ???

          • I have to say though, the feel of this book isn’t very angsty…it’s slightly thriller-ish and domestic drama-ish

          • Thank you ladies! Good to be back! ???

            I just finished the Affair…I wanted more suffering for Noah (and maybe Ruby too) but then, you know me, I’m always out for blood when it comes to the cheaters haha…Noah in particular irked me…very self serving…
            What did you all think?

          • Noah reminds me of Phil a bit on the surface. Smooth liar without the sophistication that Phil has.

          • Miri, Noah’s a lying snake, but in the end he’s living in a small apartment with his equally scum of a friend, no wife and his son on the weekends. That’s the author’s idea of karma. He had no real remorse or guilt. Ruby isn’t any better, even if she realized how wrong they were 2 years after the fact.

            I liked Lydia and appreciated her growth arc, even if it was too slow. Lorenzo is an interesting character, he has the moral high road over Ruby, yet he stays with her to save the family restaurant. I loved the big Italian family dinner descriptions, I grew up with that—Sunday dinner was an experience.

          • Tara, I agree, Noah and Ruby didn’t have great HEA’s but, meh, did Lydia really have to mend her friendship with Noah in the end? Why couldn’t she just hold a good grudge? Not wish him ill or anything but just be like, “eff off loser, you don’t deserve my friendship”…why take the high road when you can twist the knife a little instead? Noah in particular was so manipulative of Lydia, like if she didn’t want to help raise his affair child from another woman she wasn’t a supportive wife? Yeah ok loser

          • Janet, I think Phil is a more solid person..Noah is kind of a pussy lol…remember the part where Lorenzo wants to hit him? He didn’t even know how to defend himself…at least Phil will defend himself (though not against a black belt ??)

          • Ok Miri. I didn’t read that part. I gave up at 35 percent I think and just skimmed. Noah kept lying and that brought back memories of Phil lying. This guy is a putz. Not like Phil except the lying part. I don’t think I will read anymore by this author. I didn’t love the Divorce either and know I’m in the minority.
            I will continue with Megan crane. Bee suggested that one.

          • Janet, you’re totally right, Noah is a putz, you’re not missing out on anything haha…but yeah he had that “I’m a moral man” vibe that Phil had sometimes (even while lying through his teeth)…..
            I havent heard of Megan Crane, will google her now, thanks ??

          • I thought Noah’s lying was much worse than Phil’s. Don’t you think Phil’s deceptions were more about avoiding dealing with issues at home. Noah is a two-faced asshole, pious and unyielding putting on airs, to keep up appearances, falls in love with his mistress, but is willing to become a marriage counselor in their church. He’s a horrible character.

      • Katie, do you mean ‘I can be a better you’? I actually really liked it! I thought the ending was super cute lol…she made it out as though it might be a true story…and I thought things worked out the way they should have for everyone involved ??
        Have you read it?

        • I meant The Affair, but I added yours to my TBR too.
          I’m halfway done with The Affair (a different one) by Colette Freedman. I took a break to read a new release, but I actually like The Affair- super angsty. Janet and Bee weren’t overly impressed though.

  12. To the ladies who are married, just wondering if your husband knows you enjoy reading books on infidelity and their opinion on your book genre.

    • Haha. Fun question.
      My husband and I hide nothing. He knows Laura popped my infidelity book cherry, and we actually talk about a lot about the books I read. I think it might worry him if cheating or trust issues were present in our marriage, but they’re not. It’s interesting because a lot of times he doesn’t think the men’s POV really represents how men think. He also knows I like to read my porn, but that only benefits him, and he’s cool with it. ?

    • My husband knows I read romance but doesn’t really know what that means. I told him long time ago that romance genre is an extension of Jane Austen novels and he took it at face value. Thank God for kindle because most novels don’t have covers like Laura’s books. Why do we need such cheesy covers? I especially hate those MC ones with gory muscles and ugly tats. How can I recommend anyone to read them with such stoopid covers even if writing is good?

      Katie, has your husband ever read one of your books?

      • No but he has seen “cock” a time or 10 when he looks over at my iPad. Now I think he just knows that means I’ll want to try something in bed later. Sorry if TMI. ??‍♀️
        He might think the age gap obsession is weird, but he’s my real life age gap romance, so…

          • Lol. I’m human so of course that happens. But honestly, he works half the week away from home, so, when he is home, I actually enjoy connecting with him, when we can be man and woman, husband and wife, not just dad and mom.

          • I love you girls…LOL My husband could care less what I’m reading…However, if I’m cracking up about something he wants to know what about….He’ll laugh with me..Lol… Katie my husband is also my age gap romance at 12 years older. Wouldn’t trade him…..

      • Some of my books (the taboo/forbidden ones) make for interesting conversations with him. What might be fantasy/erotic to me is certainly not acceptable when we talk about our daughter dating.

        • In other words, my daughter will be chained to her bed before she dates a professor or friend’s dad. ???
          I love asking my husband, “what would you think if…”

    • We’ve been married 36 years. At this point my husband couldn’t care less about what I read. Occasionally, we will swap books. I’ll share romantic suspense and an occasional PNR and he insists I read Stephen King.

    • Okay, i was just wondering if they had a comment or a ‘raised eyebrow’ regarding the infidelities book.

      Guy who used to work at my work moaned that 50 Shades of Grey did nothing to his wife libido. Apparently he has since separated from his wife – had an affair. According to office gossip.

  13. I’m still working through books on my kindle I’d downloaded or half finished after discussions here. Has anyone read The Affair and The Consequence by Colette Freedman?
    The husband, during his affair, starts wearing boxers (versus briefs) because “everyone at the gym does.” He tans, whitens his teeth, and flexes in the mirror.
    What an idiot. Next he’ll start Karate.

      • Janet, nothing wrong with triathletes, but he wouldn’t survive a triathlon. He’ll drown in the ocean.

        I’m hoping to do my first triathlon in October. I wanted to do it last year but then my mate by mistake ripped my arm out of my shoulder socket and i landed needing a bankart tear repair and rotator cuff. Had my surgery a day after my 30th birthday. Nice welcome to my dirty thirties.

        • ? omg!!! You are one cool chic.

          I’m joking about triathlete. The character can’t run a mile in the book. I think he joined a gym with the girlfriend and the wife sees them in the parking lot. Katie is a Phil fan and I’m not so it’s a running joke between team Phil and team Nick at this point.

          • Well Phil got his hot body from swimming. Male swimmers have the best bodies *swoon*. Even William was impressed with his lats.

    • LOL 🙂

      I read the reviews for the two Freedman books and decided they weren’t my thing. He sounds a bit cliche and if I found Phil frustrating. This guy probably needed a good kick in the ass.

      • Lol. Aren’t they all a cliche?
        It’s not so bad yet. He has been having an affair for 18 months. Younger woman at work. Thinks his wife doesn’t love or want him. It’s the same timeline from 3 perspectives. H,h,OW. I just finished the wife’s perspective, part 1 of first book.
        The OW is pregnant in book 2. Not sure how it all ends. I didn’t read reviews. I can’t trust reviews in this genre. So much personal opinion is in them.

      • He’s nothing like Phil. He also loves the OW and this is women’s fiction so you can see where it’s headed.

        • And, that’s why I avoided it. The falling in love with the OW is frustrating, if the marriage is falling apart, be a grown up and deal with it before falling in love with the OW.

          • Right? That’s what I always ask myself. I’ve even told my husband I’d rather have him tell me he thinks of straying + there’s a woman + he’s not happy, etc. etc. and we’ll deal with it at that stage, rather than doing it and humiliating/destroying our family. I don’t know. That’s probably utopian thinking. People like security. Leaving a marriage for something that might not last, even if it’s looove, is harder than it sounds, I guess.
            The husband’s perspective in this one is already annoying me. Their business is doing poorly and he’s stressed. She’s home with the kids, stressed. And he says things like, “what does she do all day, watch Judge Judy.” Oh fuck you, bro, and your hair dye and fake tan.

    • I can’t find posts. I did read Bee’s Megan Crane suggestion. Will get that now!

      Bee, I think Kim wore pink. Lol. Maybe black too.

    • This book deals with the husband having an affair with his male college roommate.
      I thought is was good. There is a sad part but it does end with an HEA. The wife is a good wife. There Are Two Sides to Every Story by Zane Michaelson.

  14. When do you think Phil realised kim had an evil side to her?

    In WPF Kim first evil side came out when she forward the text messages to Lina but straight away when Phil saw Lina upset, he said “what did she do?”

    He didn’t hear her comment to Lina at the wedding, so can’t really count that. When Lina told him what she said, his reply was “i just heard you call her a whore”. He didn’t acknowledge Kim comment.

    He wasn’t clued up to her tricks when the Steamboat incident happen, since he still slept with her after SB.

    Wondering when he realised she’s evil and out to destroy Lina life.

    • So cheating is one thing but an affair is another in my opinion. Kim is not some cheap tart who Phil picked up at a bar for one night. She’s the type of woman Phil may have ended up marrying(and divorcing)if he didn’t meet Lina at age 16.?. Do you see Phil saying ok get out of my room I need my beauty sleep and come back at 5am when I’m in the mood again? And Kim being docile and goes back to her room? I don’t think affairs work like that. Like it or not, there was some intimacy involved. Phil’s heart wasn’t involved so we have to settle for that.

      I think Phil found Kim’s evil side when he broke things off with her. In the deleted scene she claws his neck. Maybe that’s not evil but I’m sure he was surprised by the attack. Ok is she evil or just a scorned bitch? Lol. Sending the texts and pictures- is that evil? I’m just asking.

      • Phil would have gone to her room, that way he’s more in control and can get up and leave when he wants to and not worry about being a dick towards her and ordering her to leave. I see Phil being more “work mode” in the morning before meetings. If they stayed over the night before, it means they have an early start the following morning. I know for me where i work, if you don’t have an early start to your meeting, then you fly that morning to save company cost. I don’t see Phil taking the company for a ride. I guess Phil won’t see anything more than sleeping next to her everytime they travel. He would have to go to his empty room to make phone calls to his family. Hopefully his room booked close to Kim, otherwise more of a mission for him.

        Janet – I try go by what was in the book. Not 100% sure what was deleted or change.

        Evil, scorned, bitch etc they all work well for Kim :p

        Tara – i suppose Phil realised she’s up to something when he ended it and she would still message him. If i think about the deleted scene.

        Phil only realised she fell pregnant on purpose after he spoke to kim sister in SN. Before kim made it out she was totally clueless.

        Okay, i need to read a book where the hubby grovels big time. I did start reading a book where the wife catches her husband having sex with her sister in their bed. They don’t seem sorry. Her husband wants a divorce with no drama, as the sister wants to get married in 6 months time. I’ve put the book on pause at the moment.

        • What’s that book? LOL Bee, if you want to give Phil a break then I’m all for it. But Phil didn’t think like us so he wouldn’t see sharing a room as intimacy. More like convenience.

          where do you work that they would rather fly you out then losing $.

          Also, do you get Netflix over there? Everyone should watch Schitt’s Creek. It’s hilarious and so good. After cheating novel, I started watching this to make me laugh.

          • Janet – Once more with feeling by Megan Crane. Not a happy ending with husband. Wife caught them doing doggy-style on her bed.

            I’m saying they would rather save money and not pay for accommodation if they can fly us out on an early flight and just make the meeting start slightly later and end late. Turns out to be a long day starting at 4am and having to be at airport at 5ish for a 6ish flight. Although can be tricky for our guys flying from airports that don’t have a lot of flight options. They almost always have to fly day before. I work for an international retail company but I’m on the operation side – stats and IT side.

            Almost remember times are tough in SA. Luckily we are doing okay but we want to be the best against our competitors 😉

            We get Netflix here but i haven’t signed up. My tv not even plugged in. I’m not a big tv person but I’m moving at the end of September and the plan is to setup my spin bike in front of the tv. So I’ll need series to watch. Although I’m more into drama – CSI NY, 911, Lucifer, but I’ll look into it.

      • Sending the texts and pictures was an act of desperation, if you ask me. She thought Lina would leave when she found out about the affair and pregnancy. When she didn’t, Kim went in for the kill rubbing Phil’s infidelity in Lina’s face by sending the texts and pictures. Almost like “CAN YOU FORGIVE THIS?” That bitch…made myself mad just typing that…lol

        • Hahaha Tracie, you make me laugh but i agree with you. Lina wasn’t following through on her plans – leave Phil once the affair was out of the bag.

      • I think initially she was more scorned than evil. She’s narcissistic enough to think she was going to marry him without even meeting him, she feel in love with the “mesmerizing” lawyer she saw in court and set out to catch him. I’m sure once he started sleeping with her she honestly thought she’d caught him. Add in the baby, it should have been a done deal.

        But, basically abandoning your child changes the situation to evil. She wasn’t getting what she wanted so she’s simply moved on.

    • I think he was starting to clue in after Steamboat, but it sunk in when he realized she was pregnant and kept is a secret for months–she didn’t tell him until after he’d ended the relationship. She was probably very accommodating until her plan fell apart–then she got ugly and vindictive. OW scorned, she was going to either get him back or ruin his life. And, I think she actually thought she still had a chance to get him back long after Liam was born–kind of delusional.

      • Right. In the phone convo we heard Phil saying something like what? Incredible.. he couldn’t believe she was 5 months along. Ok I can’t talk about this anymore. Argggh

        • Janet – hahaha, you trigger my crazy thoughts with your tie comments. Only fair i get you back.

          So since ALL you people agree Phil slept next to Kim everytime the travel, what do you think Kim wore to bed? Phil would be naked. Kim naked or sexy lacy outfits.

          Guys are more comfortable sleeping naked compared to ladies.

          • Remembering in the original wedding scene Laura posted for us, Lina described Kim as sexy and sultry….That is what she wore, if anything.

          • Kim was a body, a carnal piece of flesh to release stress and escape from the pressures of home….not a safe place to land, that was only Lina….Selfish yes, however, When regret hit him full force and he saw the hurt his actions caused his wife and family there was no one more disgusted with him, than himself.

  15. This is why if i had a SO who cheated on me, i would want to know all the details so i can decide for myself how involved he was on the physical and emotional level. Physical is one thing but personal inimate moments is another. We all have our own line where it may be harder to forgive. Sharing a bed everytime they travel too intimate for me. Now they acting like a couple sleeping in the same bed and sharing space in the morning. I can only see a married man doing all that if there’s little more than just sex involed.

    • Hi BeeSa. No I haven’t said anything. I’m going to live in my denial bubble for now. Unless they are breaking a law, I can’t do much.

      So, Phil and Kim slept together when they were in NYC only because it was convenient for him. It’s what we discussed before and makes more sense to the nature of the affair. Since Phil was in his escape mode I think he enjoyed his time in NY away from home=trouble=headache.

  16. I thought of Phil and Lina Monday. My daughter took my grandson to his first day of K-3 and all the parents were in their twenties or early thirties, except for this one couple that was in their early to mid forties and one of the twenty year olds told Hailee that it was sad their grandparents had to bring him to meet the teacher, when in fact it was his parents….I bet Lina would probably be the oldest home room mother too!

    Laura do you think that would bother Phil in anyway to look around and know he was the oldest dad?

    • Can you imagine? Phil wouldn’t care but would Lina? I would care if someone thought I was a grandma. My daughter and nieces all take TKD at the same place. Usually my brother in law takes them but because it was belt testing day, my sister and I went. One of the instructor said oh you brought your mom today- to my sister! I was so so so so so mad. We are only 4 years apart but I’m going through a weird weight gain phase due to menopause. Omg I was mad! So yes, even if Lina is calmer and more mature than I am, she would care. Who cares about Phil. Nobody would say it to his face! Just thinking about that incident made me mad again.

      • OMG Janet — that would be soooo annoying. That’s ridiculous. He clearly didn’t look at you closely and made an assumption.

      • You’re beautiful Janet, you should of said I’m her sister and you’re an ass! Don’t let those people bother you….I’ve gained weight to since my hip, but my husband don’t care…I told him just move that shit around everything’s still there…Lol

      • Sorry Janet. Some people are just idiots and don’t think.

        I notice they also don’t look properly. My nephew often gets mistaken for a girl because he has big eyes and full lips but yet his hair is short and he’s wears boy clothes. He’s 4. Drives my sister mad. She lands up giving them a sarcastic answer.

        I would have chirped him and made him feel like kak. He needs to learn some manners.

        I know not to go up to any lady and ask about her pregnancy unless i know 100% she is pregnant.

      • What a ridiculous thing to say, and rude–the man needs a filter!

        I have always been the old mom, I was 37 when my son was born, my husband was 42. My husband is completely gray, often people ask about being grandpa. He’s good with it now, but wasn’t when our son was little. Phil and Lina would have fit right in with us 🙂

    • In my area it’s normal for the fathers to be in their 40s. Everyone seems to have children later. In any case, it definitely wouldn’t bother Phil even if they were younger. Lina would be one of the oldest — that might be a bit hard. I don’t know.

      • That’s true. I have a friend a year older than me. She is 51 and has a son going into 3rd grade. So that’s fine but if they called her a grandma she would get mad. Not hurt but mad. Lina will laugh it off.

        • My friend mom had her when she was 40. My mate is the same age as me.

          Honestly, think there’s a mixture.

          Plus Lina doesn’t look her age 😉 Phil will be a silver fox when Lina may only have a few handful of silver. My aunt and my ma both in their 50s and haven’t gone grey yet. My gran went grey very late. Hopefully same goes for me.

          So i think Lina will be lucky and only see her first grey in her 50s. Its Phil who will look like the “grandpa” first, not Lina.

          Phil can’t always be the main sex symbol.

  17. Tracie asked how Phil would have responded if a colleague asked if he could pursue Lina (during the separation). I can’t imagine anyone having the nerve — it would have to be someone with no ability to read ques from others. I think Phil would clench his fist and jaw and tell his to stay the F— away from his wife.

    Who took the pics? I’m sure she asked a young woman in the bar — maybe a waitress.

    • Ok, I missed a lot today. Laura, I like the tie answer. LOL!!

      Regarding the filming in the hood, my sister called me few weeks ago saying did you know…I replied, no way, I don’t believe you yada yada click. Cut to Saturday 7pm-we were coming home and saw 2 big film crew trucks parked with no company logo and no retired cops on the street. Because I live really close to TV studios, they are always filming shows and cops are always around. People are allowed to film from 6-6 M-F only. It’s very disruptive and neighbors are divided on this issue. Anyway, we got home and I asked someone who was walking if they knew what was going on and he said he heard it was a porn company. So nothing’s confirmed but who would lie about that? So bizarre.

    • Wouldn’t mind Phil overhearing someone saying they would like a chance with Lina once the divorce settles. Have Phil shaking in his boots.

      Annoying reading how Phil is the hot one and attracts all these females. I would like Phil to get a wake up call and realise there’s a few men in line who would like to take his place.

  18. Hi Holley, I’m pulling this up top as today’s comments are getting long.?

    I agree with you about getting upset with Phil when questions about the affair pop up! You just want to give him a good punch!

    You might be right about Kim trying to be nice, but I’d prefer to think she’s manipulative.

    I’d also prefer to think he’d contact Lina before arriving or after leaving, but not in front of Kim. I know he’s disconnected, but I’d hope not to that point.

    • I agree with what Tara has said. Phil wouldn’t have communicated with Lina in front of Kim. And there is no way he would have turned off his phone — he may have silenced it, but he wouldn’t cut off his families ability to reach him.

      • Where would Phil get privacy from Kim to speak to Lina and the kids? If he’s sleeping in Kim bed then all his stuff will be in her room and he would get ready in the same room.

        He can only speak to Lina and the kids either before his work day started or after at night time. He was still on good terms with Logan and Megan, i can see them phoning him in the morning or night time about school. Megan would no doubt phone to brag about a test result or test mark.

        No point keeping cell on if he doesn’t answer when Kim around. They sharing a bed and room, she will always be around.

        That’s why i think him going to his own room makes more sense. Only time he’s privately on his own and he doesn’t have to share space with Kim when getting ready for work and it gives him a chance to talk to his family without Kim overhearing him.

        Plus sex part just an escape. To sex and leave is keeping everything separate. To lie in bed next to Kim and hear her breathing, surely he will start thinking and peocessing what he’s actually doing.

        If he slept in same bed with kim, then i can totally see her buying skimpy lacey outfits to wear to bed. Kim would definitely try pull a fast one with Phil. She would try cuddle him. She tried her trick at Steamboat.

        I can maybe believe him sharing a bed maybe the beginning but then realising its a bit tricky because it doesn’t give him any privacy or a chance to chat to his family.

        It makes sense for another man who are having an affair to sleep the night but Phil showed he had no interest in spending alone time with Kim, unless it was sex. Phil literally only saw Kim as someone to sex.

        • Bee I can see him in work mode and having his own space when needed. I can also see him falling asleep in the same bed he had sex in, rather than going back to his room. It was probably a toss up what they did while traveling, depending on what he had going on and when.

          • Probably, especially if they coming back from a late dinner and flying home the following morning.

            I definitely don’t see him sharing everytimey they travel.

            I travel for work and i like my own space and room. Hate sharing a bathroom.

  19. Ok girls, so I’ve read enough of these cheating books to figure out my line in the sand, so to speak. I understand sex outside of a marriage as an escape. And I also understand someone *thinking* they’re in love with someone else, only to realize they were escaping as well. I even understand falling out of love with a spouse and in love with someone else. As hurtful as that may be, it can happen. But what I just can’t wrap my head around are when affairs are a catalyst to a man or woman leaving his family, deciding he doesn’t want his wife or his kids, wanting to be single again. Is family life really that bad? Is fresh p*ssy really that good?
    I can’t forgive that. That one book Through Rose-Colored Glasses is haunting me today.

    • The abandonment of a family is moral character flaw. The character can’t come back from that. I haven’t read the Rose book, no interest.

    • Just takes that one small taste of temptation which could change your morals and make you do / become a complete 180.

      Become serial cheaters because they realised what they’ve been missing.

      New lady seems exciting especially after being with the same person for years and not receiving all the attention.

      I think the men who leave their marriage for another woman, their relationship won’t last as long as their first marriage. First year or two is “honeymoon” stage, but then life takes over and the asshole once again not recieving all the attention. Repeat cycle.

      That’s why people need to avoid and not put themselves in situations where they might be tempted. If temptation comes knocking on your door (Kim) you need to shut it down there and then and be firm enough so they know you are dead serious.

      These one night stand business because they were drunk. Makes me grr. If you going out without your partner then don’t drink or stick to one drink.

      Also this lack of communication.

      I haven’t read that Rose book.

      • Unfortunately that hasn’t been my experience. I’ve seen plenty of second marriages — that started with affair, standing the test of time. I suppose it depends if its a serial cheater or a one or two time cheater. What’s amazing to me is that someone can walk away from a person they have been married to for a couple of decades and seemingly never look back. It boggles my mind.

        • I worked with a woman who was divorced and was the OW in a relationship. He may have already been separated when they met, but definitely not divorced. She said if she’d realized that marriage was hard and no relationship was perfect, before she got divorced, she’d still be married to her first husband. She said she loved her second husband, but she would have tried harder to make the first marriage work.

          So, I wonder how many people just keep the status quo in marriage #2?

          • Exactly — I’ve heard the same thing too. The second marriage eventually turns in to the first, so you may as well stay.

          • I think so too, unless the first marriage had a major compatibility issue that didn’t exist in the second marriage.

        • I only know of one couple who got married as a result of an affair. My husband’s brother had an affair that resulted in a child like Liam. His marriage fell apart and he married the other woman. They have been married 5 years and seem happy. He has no relationship with 2 of his 3 children from his first marriage as in they cut their father off, won’t even speak to him. The affair was 12 years ago! I am friends with my ex sister in law who has moved on, she has been in a long term relationship and is happy. She lost a ton of weight, started training for a marathon and had great success in her career. To this day, she will not speak to her ex, my husband’s brother. I think she truly hates her ex. My husband’s family treats her like she never divorced their brother. She is more welcome in the family than the new wife.
          My husband’s brother told us he found love but lost the love of 2 of his children. What a choice.

          • Wow Holley, that’s heartbreaking. How much do you think your ex SIL’s attitude toward her ex had to do with her 2/3 children rejecting him? Not that I blame her…just curious if she tried to get the kids to have a relationship with him.

          • That is so sad Holley! So your ex brother in law is in good terms with his family and so is the ex sister-in-law? wow.

          • Hey Tracie, Katie, Janet and Laura,
            Yes my brother in law is sad about the lost relationship between him and 2 of his kids. Is he devastated? If he is he hides it well. Wouldn’t that mean he regrets marriage to second wife? Touchy.
            Of the 2 kids who dont speak to him, his son is 25 and his daughter is 23. They are good kids too. They played sports throughout high school and college and did and doing well in College. They stayed with mom and never visited their dad since they had a say as teens when the divorce happened.
            My brother in law is 52.
            To Katie’s question,
            I think my ex sister in law had a lot to do with why the kids hate him. She was so hurt and so humiliated and the kids took their queue from her. But the affair was big family gossip so they were exposed to it. The oldest of his 3 kids from first marriage has a relationship with his dad. He reminds me of Katie. I think he felt like this was between his parents and once he got over the anger, he forgave his dad.
            My sister in law did not try to encourage her kids to see her ex. If she did, I never heard.
            I have only met the new wife twice, I tried but I just can’t. She knew they were married and while he was sleeping with her, he introduced her to the family & wife as his CPA. She was part of the cover up. She was never a CPA.
            Janet, it’s taken over 10 years for the family to work things out with my brother in law. My mother in law did not start speaking to new wife until 3 years ago. No one in the family went to their wedding, nobody. His affair was ugly, I will spare you the ugly details and everything came out during the fallout.
            My ex sister in law is still part and welcome in the family. She is really a good person and did not deserve what he did.

            I have seen in my life how imperfect humans can be and I think that is why I have learned to forgive and I am drawn to stories like Phil’s because I believe in redemption. Yeah, my brother in law was a sorry ass for what he did, but he has tried to fix relationship with his kids. But what he did in his ex wife’s eyes and 2 of the children is unforgivable so they cut him out of their lives.

          • Even his own mother struggled to forgive him — that’s unusual. I suppose everyone took their cues from the ex wife and mother. Affairs are usually very ugly — this is a big loss all around. Did your mother in law have a relationship with the child? This family is quite complicated. Thanks for sharing.

          • It sounds like the brother in law fell in love with the OW. But holy cow, why introduce her to the wife and parents? I don’t understand.
            Holley, I really appreciate sharing your story with us.

          • I agree Janet. I don’t understand. I just wish people left their relationships respectfully, instead of doing so much damage. That’s too much to ask, I know.

          • My cousin’s husband had an affair with her sister. After it was over, she forgave her husband and cut her sister out of her life. She is still married to him. The sister and her husband divorced afterward. The two sisters never made up. The sister who had the affair has since died.

          • Wow, Holley! Quite a hectic story. I feel a bit bad about the husband. Yes, what he did was wrong and cheeky to introduce the OW while still married but he’s stayed with the OW for years. Least he didn’t destroy lives for a random even though it still suck. Like they say, takes 3 people to have an affair and maybe he was truely unhappy and tried talking to the ex wife. Never know what went on behind closed doors.

            I know i couldn’t write off a parent over an affair. Can’t help who we fall in love with. We all human and he went by the wrong way and he’s lost years with his kids. I do hope the two other kids eventually give him a second chance, especially since both their parents have moved on and happy.

          • Holley I noticed you said the affair was 12 years ago, but they have only been married for five years. I wonder why your BIL waited seven years to marry the OW?

          • Hey ladies,
            Tracie, the affair was 12 years ago. They have been married for 5 only but they have another child who is 9. They lived together for a long time. I have no idea why they waited to get married.
            I am assuming he wanted to see if his kids and family would come around before getting married?
            And yes I believe he fell in love with the other woman. He handled it all wrong. As Katie said it, wish people would leave their relationships respectfully and go have their hea.
            As to Laura’s question, my mother in law was very upset with her son for how treated his wife after affair was discovered-He was an insensitive A hole. For example, he also introduced his kids to other woman before the affair was discovered. He brought other woman in family as his CPA. So it took long time to forgive her son because she said that was not how she raised her sons. But yes my mother in law has always had a relationship with the grandkids by Ow/current wife.
            We all want romantic love, but what price are we willing to pay to have it?
            Life is complicated ?.

          • Holley – i can feel the pain behind his statement “i found love but lost the love of my two children”.

            He was selfish and cruel and should have ended his marriage when he realised this OW means more. I think a lot of adults think they can hide things from their kids.

            Also must be scary to end a marriage for another partner when you not 100% sure it will work out. Huge risk to take.

            Must make family celebrations difficult.

        • Well like i mentioned before, my ma had an affair and married the guy. Although i think only a very small percentage last.

          Step dad was also married at the time.

          • Tracie – my ma had an affair and when i was 5 but they only got married when i was about 13 or 14 years old. He separated from his wife but didnt move in straight away. I do remember him sleeping over though.

            To sum it up, my ma and step dad were married. They divorce their SO but only moved in with each other about a year or so later and got married about 8/9 years later.

            I remember the drama that went down when the affair came out. It wasn’t pretty. My sister had to phone the police a few times and she was only 10 at the time. We both didn’t have any ill feelings towards my ma or step dad. I think i was too young to register but I do remember the drama.

            Also my friend dad was having an affair for years and finally married the OW. He was waiting for all 3 kids to be out the house from what i can tell.

          • Hey Bee
            Thanks for sharing your story. That had to impact you. I hope you weren’t too hurt from it.

  20. Do you think Kim and Phil slept together in the same bed till morning?

    * they would still need to book separate rooms whilst travelling since secretary books the travel arrangements.

    * Out of the 4 months, Phil only slept at Kim house 2 or 3 times according to him. That doesn’t seem a lot for a 4 months affair.

    * Phil an alpha so he’s not one for cuddling at all. Only Lina will bring out that side of him.

    Also i think Kim would behave the first night they shared a bed but i wouldn’t put it past her to by “mistake” cuddle up to him during the night and Phil noticing it and feeling uncomfortable. That’s why he never pushed for more sleepovers at Kim house because it was just sex and that’s it. He was never alone in her company outside of the sex. Dinner and pub was always with other people. There was no “buddy friendship” with her, it was just work and sex.

    So do you think he would roll over and sleep in the same bed after sex or throw his clothes on and go to his own room straight after? I’m sure the last thing he wants is to have pillow talk with her.

    • They slept together all night, I’m sure. But I see Phil sleeping with his back to her. And pulling away if she tried to get sweet, unless it was a prelude to sex.

      • I agree Katie, but I’m betting the sleepovers at Kim’s apartment were early to middle of the affair when it was pretty new…I agree with you on the sleepovers he would not have cuddled or spooned her, unless it happened why he was asleep. I wonder if Phil not being quite awake would of called Kim Lina in the early morning hours?

      • I don’t know, i still find it hard to believe he would share a bed all night with her after sex. He didn’t even interact with her at the running club and only spent time with her when other people where around in NY.

        The sex he had during/after/before work were just “quickies”.

        I still picture him rolling over and getting up after ten minutes and going to his room. To me it would become too “personal” after they’ve finished and like i said, Phil made no effort to see hang with Kim outside of work or sex.

        Unless maybe he stayed the night when it was the first month or two when it was all exciting but once the main excitement started dying and just the escape part was there, then he would leave.

        Also what if Phil woke up and realised he by mistake was cuddling Kim. That slip up could easily happen on his part since he and Lina been sharing a bed for +/- 20 years.

        Sharing bed for sleep no longer about the sex.

        • Ugh — I hate thinking about it. I agree with Katie and Tracie. They slept in the same bed, but there is no way he cuddled with her. Now I’m mad at him.

          • Kim would have tried to cuddle and make it seem like it was a “mistake”.

            I still don’t think he would have slept in the same bed. Maybe the beginning but Phil seems a bit cold towards Kim during the affiar – made no effort to hang with just her outside of work / sex. He didn’t even interact with her at the running club.

            If he could easily sleep in the same bed as her while traveling then why not more sleepovers at her house instead of quickies?

            He’s so fussy as to who shares his bed at home – he doesn’t like the kids lying in his and Lina’s bed.

            If he’s sleeping in her bed at the hotel then all his bag is there. So means he will have to play “house” with her and share bathroom with her and cupboard space. Just seems too cozy and i don’t see Phil sitting and waiting for Kim to finish brushing her teeth so he can have his turn.

            Also if he sex then sleeps next to her. Then it will give himself time to think what he’s doing. By having sex then leaving to his own room, that helps him to remove himself from the situation of what he did and not giving himself time to think.

            Seems more of an effort to move away from her in bed and keep your back towards her. Phil likes sleeping on his back, so his back wouldn’t even be towards her.

            If it was me and i was having sex with someone for just physical. I would prefer sleeping in my own room. Just prefer my own space and don’t have to get used to someone sleeping habits – move around in bed too much, snore etc

  21. Hi guys! I think a house on the next street over is filming porn there. Neighbors are mad. Supposedly it was an Airbnb house then the owners sold it and now it’s being used to film porn. Lord. I can’t tell my husband bc he will go batshit.

    So the question for today is Kim related. Not sure if we talked about it already. Why did Kim give a pink tie to Phil? Why not navy green or grey? Did she know Phil didn’t wear pink? And Phil had it on when he came home. Kim was counting on that? Did she stain the previous worn tie with food so Phil didn’t have a choice? Kim plans things out so I’m thinking they had a convo about pink? Laura, did Phil ever talk about Lina with Kim? ie, Kim will get a chocolate croissant for breakfast and Phil would say oh that’s lina’s favorite? Also, did he make calls or answer calls while Kim was in the same room? I read so many cheating novels now where the husbands answer or make calls to the wife while he is with the OW.

    • Porn huh…well those neighbors will get the naked truth…Lol…Only you J-Girl…The coolest thing that’s happened around my house is the County came by with a brush hog and cut the Johnson grass in the ditches….

      Kim could of also detected Lina’s style in clothing by what Phil wore everyday and knew a pink tie would be a standout and be suspicious to her. I believe his story about the food. I think maybe she might have planned to put it in his suitcase knowing Lina probably packed/unpacked him and saw a better opportunity with him dropping food on his tie. Look what I bought you blah blah and he probably had no idea about the store it was bought from not being in NYC. I bet that caught his attention. In fact, that night when Lina initiated the reconnect, he was probably thrilled because Kim was quickly losing her luster and his two worlds were running to close together. I don’t think Phil would of talked to Lina with Kim in the room, maybe texted. Also, no to discussing Lina’s likes and dislikes with Kim. He probably let her know he never intended to leave his wife and his relationship with her was strictly physical.

      • I think the only time Phil spoke to Kim regarding Lina was the night before they had sex. If he had to mention Lina in his conversation with Kim, surely that would make him feel guilty? Remember he was using kim as an escape, so he wouldn’t want to think of Lina at all.

        I don’t think he spoke to Lina on the phone while Kim was around or maybe he did but only when they weren’t privately alone after/before doing the nasty – in her bedroom or hotel room. Phil had no problem messaging Kim while at home with Lina. So he probably sent her a “goodnight” message while lying in bed with Kim or out late with Kim friends at dinner. Probably sent messages making it out like few of them are off to dinner and he’s saying “night” now or he’s off to bed for an early night. Last thing Phil wants is for lina to phone him wanting to say “night” and he’s busy pullling Kim g-string off. So Phil would make sure he has said night to Lina, to make sure she wouldn’t contact him at all, since he’s off to play with Kim.

        Argh, i really want to believe it was a “shag and leave” when they were traveling for work. They still need to book two seperate rooms otherwise it would look suspicious and i doubt Phil/Kim booked their own travel arrangements.

        Kim probably never saw him wear pink and wanted to purchase a tie that would stand out. Phil probably had a few selective colours he preferred to wear.

        Do you think Phil was becoming careless with his affair when he was touching kim in public. I’m sure he’s well known as a lawyer and you just need that one person to recognise you while out in public. Even leaving together with Kim after the run was risky.

        I think if kim wasn’t an evil women, there would have been a good chance Phil slipping up and getting caught.

        • I think he was careless because they were in NY alone, their “dates” for want of a better word we’re work related. He didn’t take her “out” in Baltimore. In Baltimore it was about meeting for sex.

          • You just need that one person who is a mutual friend with Phil and Lina to be at the same hotel / pub and see Phil cozy with Kim.

            How many times have you bumped into someone you know at the most random odd places? It happens.

          • I agree but it wasn’t part of the story, Lina would have learned of it sooner, and that would hav changed the story dynamic.

        • Arggghh is right. Ok, so a few people from his work already knew and he didn’t care. I mean his secretary knew everything and so did Wayne. Showing PDA in NYC and running is careless but not sure if thought about it. It’s weird but from all the books I read so far, the guys all act careless. There was a book( I can’t remember the title) where the husband was having an affair with a co worker and they went to NYC and fully made out in a restaurant and others saw.

          • Do you think everyone (besides Wayne and the secretary) or did it explode when everyone found out she was pregnant and Lina threw him out?

            I don’t think he thought the running group was being careless, he didn’t think of it as something they did together, something Kim manufactured to look like it was a relationship.

          • I don’t think he wanted his work people to know. Even if he was suspicious that his secretary knew, i don’t think he would outright confirm or advertise it by saying “please book the 08h00 flight to NY for Kim and I. We will only need one room at the NY Inn”

          • That’s kind of my point, unless Wayne and the secretary were gossiping, how much was actually out there before everything fell apart for him personally?

            When they’re at the barbecue in SN, the wives share how shocked they were–so I don’t think the husbands/partners were coming home saying anything about an affair–Diane had no idea, no one was gossiping.

          • Tara – true, remember Diane said “Wayne said Phil was discrete”. Definitely discrete in the office.

            Although Wayne didn’t see how he behaved whilst in NY and out in public.

      • omg johnson grass! LOL. I totally agree Tracie. Just couldn’t remember if we talked about it or not so I commented.

    • What makes you think it’s porn? Funny!
      I think Phil probably texted but didn’t make or answer calls
      The tie. Hmmm. I think she gave it to him as a gift but got lucky that he actually needed it. I think she definitely had hoped it would get him caught. Like lipstick or undies in a glove compartment.

      • Katie – I agree. Phil definitely text. He had no problem texting Kim while at home with Lina and his family.

        Phil also turns his cell off a few times in the books. So i wouldn’t be surprised he switched his cell offf before going out with Kim after saying night to Lina.

    • OMG, porn? You can’t make that up!

      1. Pink tie? It’s the first grenade launched at Lina, it will stand out, right? I think she noticed everything about Phil, and knew he never wore pink and knew it would stand out in his closet. I don’t think they had a conversation about pink—if they had, I hope he would have been smart enough to get rid of it.

      2. Talk to Kim about Lina? Not even in passing conversation, it would have triggered guilt. He was compartmentalizing everything about the affair. He made it clear to Kim he wasn’t leaving Lina, I can’t think he’d talk about anything personal. I think conversations would have been about work, and where and when they were having sex.

      3. Phone calls or texts? No way, again the compartmentalizing thing. He was there for sex and just sex.

      Just my 2 cents ?

      • We had a talk about Physical and emotional connections and SN in my office today. One lady hit the nail on the head, she said what Phil was feeling was only Carnal based. She said there was the thrill/butterflies of something outside the norm and agrees with the escape…

        • Carnal is a good description, right?

          I think that’s why it’s hard for most women to understand. We like to think there has to be an emotional attachment for cheating, but that’s not necessarily the case. Phil was never emotionally attached, if anything he was emotionally disconnected from everything–including Lina and his family.

      • Most of the people found out at the wedding about Kim. Don’t think Kim was showing yet, so people wouldn’t have questioned Kim about “who’s the daddy?” since they know she’s single.

        Gossip probably exploded after the drama. Hope Phil felt like the worst husband in the world and overheard people talking bad about him. Not like he would care, although I’m sure he would still want his work colleagues to respect him.

        Janet – you making my blood boil. When i think of Phil and his actions, my blood boils and my thoughts go wild.

        • Gossip probably did explode, but there wasn’t anyone brave enough to confront Phil. Like I said before, I’m sure his colleagues that were jealous of his talent as an attorney and his gorgeous wife, were the quickest to fire up the rumor milk, especially after the separation. Phil’s weight loss, his solo appearances at work functions and his demeanor changing like Gina pointed out to Lina was a big flashing sign at just how much he was suffering from his actions and giving office ass wipes more to talk about!

          • Absolutely, the gossip exploded. Nobody was going to ask to him about was going, but everyone was talking. The only person besides Wayne that talks to him is Kim’s boss at her new firm, and he’s a putz.

          • But i don’t people gossip till the wedding drama happened.

            Kim no doubt made sure to let everyone know Phil chased her for months after the wedding fiasco. She would try paint Phil as the one who chased her. Probably showed the text from Phil and said “it was all Phil who chased me”. She probably lie and say “he told me he was leaving his wife for me”

    • Janet – Good, they making new blue movies. I’m single so i need some entertainment ;p jokes.
      We often hear about brothels being discovered in our local news and often in up market areas. One was across the road from a boy high school.

    • Hi Janet,
      I just got mad at Phil all over again at how he lied to Lina about the tie in WPF. She was in a kind of anxiety hell in the tie scene. It reminded me of why Logan called him a liar in WPF. Then I have to remember that it is hard to have an affair without lying and I try to remember the Phil of SN.
      I might be in the minority here but I think Kim was trying to be nice to Phil by giving him a tie. I think she was trying hard to give Phil reasons to leave Lina so she did not want to make things difficult for Phil. Kim wanted to be nicer, prettier, smarter, kinder, more supportive, more sophisticated than Lina. Kim got lucky that Lina noticed the tie. She picked pink because she likes pink.
      As for Phil talking to Lina in front of Kim, I think he would have done it because Phil’s and Lina’s conversations during affair were not loving conversations and his guilt sensors were turned off during the affair.
      I think the extent of conversations about Lina with Kim was that he would never leave Lina.

      • I agree with you Holley, except that I think Kim had vile intentions veiled as being nice. She was too smart for it to be random. But, like Laura just said, maybe Kim didn’t give him the tie…

    • OMG — that’s crazy!

      Okay — how do we know Kim gave Phil the pink tie? Maybe he was being honest. Maybe he spilled something on his tie and was given another one. I know I said something different before, but now I’m thinking that we really don’t know.

      • Ooooo, I like this answer!

        The pink tie got Lina’s spidey-senses going, but it could have been no big deal!

          • I can see the tie being totally innocent but it triggers questions for Lina and makes Phil heart skip a beat knowing how close she is to the truth.

            No wonder Phil got pissy. This time he was telling the truth but knowing Lina has doubts about him must have really been a bit of a punch in the gut for him. She knows they aren’t in a good space as a couple, that’s why she questioned him. If they were in a good space, she wouldn’t even questioned him even if it so far our of character for him. She probably laug and tease him about it.

  22. I’m just about done with Nobody’s Baby But Mine by Gloria Silk. It’s good! I honestly had no idea how this was going to turn out until 80%.

      • No. It’s a happily married couple with infertility issues. Both face temptation that threatens their marriage- he, by a coworker, she, by an ex. I liked it a lot. You get 3 perspectives (including the OW) and feel like you want to scream at each of them because you know something they don’t, or maybe you don’t know anything at all.

        • I agree it’s good, but my god, all they needed were some communication skills. She’d talk about her issues to everyone but her husband, and work stress is not an excuse.

  23. Hi Ladies, I read an interesting book today, In Black & White by Nia Forester—the child of a separated couple is abducted, they’re separated because he cheated. Good mystery, the story has too much going on, but it’s very well written.

  24. Janet -a me and you thing hero was good and redeemable too because he never stopped loving his wife..he would have never gone to Bree if he knew his wife was alive..and I felt the whole time that only Bree was persuing him forcefully..I liked the H he was ok..

    • Hilarious title Bee! I will check it out! Thanks. Also, like Katie said the waitress taking the pictures makes sense. I wonder if Kim told her, I’m making a scrapbook for my husband. Lol.

      • Romance comedy. Single divorce lady and minor bad luck from breaking down in the middle of the road, to a loud fart slipping out at the gym. Vagina waxing and noticing a grey pube.

      • That bitch had a plan from day one to get Phil one way or another….Destroying Lina in the process meant absolutely nothing to her. Phil telling her you don’t know me enough to love me is exactly correct or she wouldn’t have been so confident in her plan of destruction…

        • Tracie – Definitely had a plan. She needed a backup plan in case she struggled to fall pregnant. I assume she was on the pill for years because a baby was the last thing she wanted before she met Phil.

          She knew Phil wouldn’t leave his wife. So she needed evidence of Phil affair to breakup their marriage if Phil ended their affair before she fell pregnant.

          She was lucky that Phil was having sex with her just about daily, so it increased her chance to fall pregnant.

  25. I have an off the wall question…What do you girls think Phil would of done if one of his colleagues came to him while separated from Lina and seriously asked him “Since you seemed to have moved on with Kim and are separated from Lina would it ruin our professional relationship if I pursued Lina? Oh my!

    • Fun Tracie! I would love that scene! I would ask, did Lina bail him outta jail? lol

      After two years, I’m still wondering who did Kim ask to take those incriminating pictures? was it a girl or a guy? Did she have to pay for them? I reread a few of my fav chapters today…

      • I did too Janet…I wondered after the picture scene when Lina said they hadn’t spent a minute apart that day and it was healing for her, I wondered about him….How was he feeling…Maybe nervous and emotional. Overwhelming guilt would be a good guess since he had that dream later that evening…I think he probably didn’t want her out of his sight that day, just needing to be near her…

        • Ya, remember he didn’t realise how much it must have hurt her to look at those photos of him with another woman till that morning.

          Seeing the evidence of what he did with another woman. Seems like he wasn’t even aware of how we was acting with Kim out in public – his hand between her thigh or grabbing her ass in public. He wasn’t just keeping thier ‘relationship’ behind closed doors. He was getting brave and careless.

      • She probably paid a waitress to take the photo “when i put his hand on my thigh, that’s the signal to take a photo”.

        Not sure about the dance photo. Had to be someone not part of the group Phil was chatting with. He would have notice and made them delete it.

      • But whatever lina was going through Phill was there with her thank God!he didn’t leave her for Kim he loved her I’m thanking God for that …I have been reading horrible novels similar to bird in hand ,Saving us it would have been a nightmare situation knowing all the years you spent together was a lie… ohmygod! Can’t even imagine the pain of those wives

    • I always wanted Phil to overhear someone say to another colleague “Phil an idiot to cheat on Lina for Kim. They both gorgeous but its no competition who i would pick between the two. I’m going after Lina as soon as their divorce is final”

  26. Has anyone here read Call Me By Your Name by Andrè Aciman? Wondering if it’s appropriate for 14 year old to read? I don’t want graphic sec scenes. I’m OK with the older man younger boy theme but not with sex scenes.

    • I haven’t read this one. It sounds like the kid has explicit sexual fantasies. I read Lolita for an English class as a junior in HS. I think I was *just* mature enough for that one at that age. Not knowing much about the book or the 14yo, I would say probably not.

  27. Katie, I finished Bird in Hand, and the best thing I can say about is it’s well written. The story is sad. The husband and the best friend aren’t horrible people, they’re selfish and self-absorbed and see their “love” as something ethereal. I liked that it’s told from the 4 different perspectives, but otherwise it’s a bit innocuous, I didn’t feel invested in the story. I felt sorry for the wife and the best friend’s husband. Both knew something was wrong. The wife was blindsided, but the BFF’s husband figured it out.

        • I’m only half done. I’ll finish tonight, but feel free to discuss. I just won’t log in until I finish.

        • Tara did Charlie have a relationship with the children?
          Was Charlie finally strapped because she was a stay at home mom?

          Did you get the impression Claire still missed Ben?

          What about when Charlie said Claire could take him high and drop him but it was still worth it. Just reading Part 5, I don’t think that relationship will last…

          • Financially strapped….

            What was Charlie’s job?

            Why didn’t Ben and Claire have kids?

          • Charlie’s relationship with the children is vague, he mentions Noah basically is okay with him showing up like a traveling salesman and Annie isn’t happy, but he was trying to fix that. I don’t think he really cared. He focused on his and Claire’s happiness.

            I don’t think she missed Ben at all, she would eventually miss the lifestyle they had but it’s still to new, they haven’t really lived yet.

            The hawk and the snake thing, so Charlie has an uneasy feeling that she’s going to move past him but feels it’s worth it.

            I didn’t pay close attention to what Charlie’s job was, it felt like some sort of middle management thing in marketing.

            In the epilogue from Charlie’s POV, he’s thinking about how he and Claire met with Allison to discuss them and what happened and it solidified just how horribly self absorbed the two really are, she wasn’t looking for answers, but the felt the need to share. They’d basically been interested/in love since before Charlie met Allison, but at that point Claire was sure she was in love with Ben and Charlie basically settled.

            At one point Claire miscarried and didn’t want children after. You can feel we’re Ben was heading. Allison’s focus is her children and career. Charlie and Claire will live on love, until it falls apart, and you feel it will eventually fall apart, their relationship hasn’t been tested.

            Strangely, the book opens with such force, the accident, not Allison’s fault, a child is killed, and really it’s superfluous to the story, it’s a catalyst to opening Ben and Allison’s eyes to what’s in front of them. The opening sucks you in but the story just peters along.

          • Funny Tara, I reached 50% and just decided to read what your spoilers instead. It started so strong!
            What’s next ladies??

          • It did start strong, at 10% I was all in, by 20% not so much.

            I’d like something with a HEA, I’ve been reading less romance and more straight fiction and woman’s fiction that leave you feeling down rather than uplifted.

          • Charlie says he’s financially strapped, so that tells me they will have money problems in their new relationship….

          • Tracie, their going to have all sorts of issues, they’re on a love high, reality will have them crashing and burning and regretting what they’ve done. My god, they really are horrible characters.

          • After I Do by Taylor Jenkins Reid was good. Not cheating but the couple splits up before they get their HEA.

          • It’s that much? I had no idea. Evidence was better but this has a happy ending. Not sure if it’s worth 10.99 though. I used to have no problem paying $15 for jr ward and Nora Roberts till I started reading self published authors. Now I have hard time partying with $4.99. Let me go through my list to see. Have you read glass Houses by Michelle Reid? It’s her older ones but angsty and good. That’s shorter but way cheaper I’m sure.

          • I said before so not sure if you read but On the Island by Tracey Garvis Graves is one of my favorites. Worth $10. Younger man/older woman. Paper Hearts is free on KU I think. Angsty!

          • Colleen Hoover. verity. On KU
            The Girl He Used To Know bun tracey Graves graves. That’s worth it too

          • How about AM Madden’s Back Up Series? If you don’t mins rock star romance. It’s so good.

          • Janet, I read Verity, good book, good plot twists.

            The Graves book is $13.99, I’m super cheap these days, normally I’m not willing to pay HB price for an ebook, but will if it seems worth it. From the blurb, you can tell she’s on the spectrum, is it handled well?

            I one-clicked the Madden series, the box set is KU. I’m super picky about rock star books, but No buyers remorse.

  28. Started a new one. I’m at 15% and it has definitely pulled me in. Christina Baker Line- Bird in Hand.
    I think this is a husband we ALL will hate, but I’m not sure yet. I didn’t read any reviews.

    • That book looks rough. Will skip it.


      I’m too busy reading book reviews on goodreads. Long weekend, i need to find something to read.

      • Hey BeeSA! I just friended you on Goodreads. You’re welcome to look through my list. I like age gap/taboo/forbidden/cheating husband. Kind of makes me sound like a creep…???‍♀️ I’ve either shelved books as “cheating husband” or I have a whole bunch of that trope in my recently read or recently added. ??

        • Landed up reading Kulti. I enjoyed it a lot 🙂 thanks.

          I enjoy age gap but prefer the man being older.

          • Or do you mean the man being a lot older?
            There’s one coming out next week by Lucia Franco. Hush Hush. 21 and 51.

      • Bee, do you like RK Lilley? If you like super angsty try Tristan and Danika series. OW galore and SO good. Or Up In Air series. BDSM.

    • I was between books and this was KU so, I started it this morning too.

      Definitely pulled me in too, but I have bad feelings about where this is going. It’s going to be ugly and the husband will not be likable–can already tell this won’t have a HEA.

      But, it’s very well written and she has a nice style and writing voice.

        • I’ll read if it has a HEA between the couple or the woman comes out much much better and the husband gets whacked really good…

          • I read the ending and deleted it….Lol.. Love KU….Definite pass for me J-Girl! I reread one you had me read last year. The Girl in Seat 24b. That guy was a straight up ass….

          • That’s what I did too LOL. I read a first few chapters, didn’t like where it was headed then read the ending then deleted. Thank God for KU

          • LOL….That’ why I’m sugar to your salt..You get me and know the books that I would like…

          • Oh boy. It must be a doozy. The husband is a supreme asshole about what happened to his wife (aside from the affair). What a loser.

          • So here’s the thing, he’s an asshat having an affair, why would he be a dick about anything? Keep your mouth shut and fly your crap under the radar.

            I like that it’s being told from all 4 perspectives, but it’s going to be a scan and return, I love KU.

            Tracie, I love 24B, he’s such an ass.

          • That Claire woman is something else! Just started Tillie Cole’s new one. Raphael. It’s a dark read from reviews. Sounds good!

          • Claire… the best friend/OW… “God, I’m such a narcissist.” Yep, that about sums it up.

          • Girls when you get through with the book I have a couple of questions from the ending. I can’t read the whole thing though..?

  29. Hello ladies,
    Finally getting caught up on all the interesting conversations and observations you have been having. The one on forgiveness has me doing some thinking and self examination, thanks Katie ?.
    Random Phil question of the day. When Lina first met Liam in SN, she rushed to her room and said to Phil “I can’t” and said something about Liam being a living and breathing reminder of what Phil did. Phil said it would get easier once she got to know Liam and Lina said she did not want to get to know Liam. She then left and spent the night at Adele’s. Phil spent the night by himself along with Katie and Liam since Logan had also left. Do you think Phil would have tried to call Lina after she left? what was going through Phil’s head during the night and the following day while he was waiting for Lina to return home? Would Lina going to Nick have crossed Phil’ mind?

    • Didn’t he ask Lina the following day “are we okay?”. So he probably was worried and stressed.

      Don’t think he would have been stressed about Lina going to Nick. Lina wouldn’t do that to Phil, especially knowing how Phil feels about Nick.

      Now sure he would have called Lina before bed. Probably knew she needed space. Maybe sent her a goodnight message…?

      Also he may have been a bit overwhelmed with Liam over. Remember he kept Liam in his bed that night. Maybe Liam was restless?

      • Hey BeeSA
        I forgot about him asking her if they were ik next day. I think you are right that he was overwhelmed. First time in his life he was main caretaker of a baby all night.

        • Remember Phil prayed for strength when Lina left. He was hoping with time all his family could accept Liam for what he was and not how he came to be. Lina told Logan on the way home the next day, it was hard fot them all to include Phil….Phil was worried that his family would be divided and prayed Liam could be accepted…Also, when Phil told Lina that he would figure out something if it was to soon to bring Liam to the house and she said no this is going to work, he was relieved…

          I think Phil would of texted Lina goodnight and that he loved her…

  30. I just finished The Ultimate Betrayal (Michelle Reid). It was really good! It actually reminded me of WPF at parts.
    It wasn’t at all what I expected from the first few chapters. ?

  31. Bee, I’m skimming Tara’s cheating book now. I’ll let you know if the girl looks tanya harding or Margo Robbie soon.

      • I wanna see what the guy looks like since this is a true story. I’m at the part where Maeve shows off her lower back butterfly tattoo aka tramp stamp. Haha

      • I’m at 68%. Well, this is a big let down. They are so normal looking. I guess normal English/ Australia couple in year 2009. The wife looks like a blonde molly ringwald to me and the guy is a dark haired button down sales guy type. Just solid middle class. Not glam but not trashy either. I’m at 68% and the guy doesn’t like the wife and he has moved out and seems to be dating or living with the OW. Supposedly this shy woman with 4 kids seduced him a he fell for it. Is very cold to his soon to be ex wife.

        • He’s cold and she’s crazy, and it’s being completely told through her rambling. The letters and the fact that she used her children as weapons against him left me questioning her sanity. I would hope a normal person would protect their children. I get it and feel bad for her, her world fell apart, she was probably postpartum after the last baby.

          Think about this… at 40 she had everything she could possibly want, perfect family, perfect home, they’d reached all of their life goals, the husband’s company pays her a salary, but she doesn’t actually work. After he leaves she hires a nanny to help her, the company continues to pay her right up to when he’s about to close the business. No life is perfect, she was in an insular bubble.

  32. Just throwing this out there.
    Janet, I love you, you make me think. Your interpretations are usually opposite of mine, yet valid, and that makes me think. I love this trope (cheating, family drama), too, for that reason.

    Where do we get our ideas about forgiveness? Our experiences, parents, personality, religion (perhaps). It’s obvious to me that I’m quick to forgive. And not just in this area. So, this has me analyzing myself- why?
    Well, I can put myself in the shoes of someone who appears to be on autopilot. Nothing as devastating as adultery, but…When I was mid 20s, I earned a big promotion, and my husband and I had very few financial obligations. I developed a bit of a shopping problem. I still have a closet full of expensive crap from that period so long ago. Luckily for me, it was short-lived and it didn’t result in debt. ? But, when I do the hindsight analysis, I see that I was extremely overwhelmed with my new position (the expectations, training process), and shopping was an outlet. I was on autopilot. Shopping at lunch, after work. And It was only the bags and bags of stuff that reminded me. Like when you drive home and don’t remember doing so. When I look back I don’t know who that person was.
    People do this with drugs, gambling, affairs…
    Can you ever think of a time when it’s like you weren’t in control of your body?

    • Thought provoking questions.

      For me, much of my belief in forgiveness comes from my faith. I try to believe everyone is forgivable, not necessarily deserved or earned, it helps the person doing the forgiving to heal. Do I actually live by this, well I try, but I’m human, so failure is sometimes the option 🙂

      I think there are times in our lives we are on autopilot, for me I revert to books, everything around me can be falling apart, but I’m going to sit on my sofa and read–probably binge read. On occasion I’ve resorted to retail therapy too 🙂

    • I’m so mellow Katie!?. I just have trouble with MCs saying I love yous to the OW when he’s never said it to the heroine. I forgave Phil, the man in 10 days, Torn Up Marriage and SP West’s hero!!

      • I don’t think I analyze heroes in romance books other than Phil! Lol. In most books I just take them at face value. In APM, i thought the husband was a weak hero and not a character I can root for. I saw that the husband experience a lot of “firsts” with the OW and I hated seeing this. He felt overpowering lust, the giddiness of falling in love again(after the death of his first), and he felt super protective of the OW and defended her to the wife. He even used the wife as a substitute for the OW when they had their first wild sex in 12 years. So all big no’s for me. Oh and how can I forget the fact that he shared intimate details of the true nature of their marriage to the paragon and told the wife not to tell his family that he left her. No boom. He was not redeemed.

        • Right. He was confused. Misplaced emotion. All of this came out at the end. He got a boner over Kate. Connected with her on all levels and took it for love. He liked that she admired him. He just didn’t realize what he really wanted was his wife to put on a little bo peep costume and get wild. He never let himself be free with his wife like that…but they figured it out. I dunno. I don’t see how he’s not redeemable but SP West or 10 Days guys are.

    • Lol. I should probably finish my thoughts. We are always so concerned with why these heroes do what they do, analyzing and reanalyzing everything they say and do. In A Perfect Marriage I thought the husband’s actions spoke louder than his words. He was clearly confused to me. And the fact that he tried to unravel things in his head was enough for me to forgive him. When people understand the why, it’s much less likely to happen again. At the time they might not understand why they’re doing what they do (autopilot), but if they put the work in to understand themselves and make things as right as they can, that’s usually good enough for me.
      Now the guy in SP West’s…I don’t know. I couldn’t keep reading his thoughts..,he did too much damage. But maybe I’m not being fair toward him, because I didn’t finish the book.

      • I dunno either Katie. We just don’t share the same taste in book men. In real life I think I can forgive a guy if he does things in the name of love. It’s harder to do this in books because heroes in romance novels should know better! I swear it’d be easier for me to forgive a killer than a cheater in romance books. I bought the HEA and the love but I hated the execution and the feeling that the heroine was second best for the bulk of the book.

        • People don’t want to analyze their behavior because then they would have to take responsibility for it…

          • Which is why my work made everyone attend an Enneagram workshop, so we can identify our emotional response to stress, conflict, etc and how we handle it. Also help us understand our colleagues and how we interact with them at work.

            I work with a 9 (peace maker who hates conflict)
            I know i have to be cautious when approaching him with problems or becoming impatient. I often get frustrated with him – i just want to shake him. I’m all fast pace and he’s all laid-back. Grrr.

    • Katie – i probably escape by reading as well or when i want my alone time.

      I’m also quick to forgive. I can have a fight with someone and a few minutes later I’m over it. I can’t walk around all grumpy or hold a grudge. Maybe because my ma holds a grudge – silent treatment for a week when we had disagreements. That’s why I’m the opposite.

      I can’t think of any major thing in my life where i needed an escape or i acted out of character for a while. I’m quite good at pushing things to the back of my mind.

      As for cheating d*cks in books, i think that’s a different story for me. Maybe because i grew up in a middle of an affair drama with my parents. Plus also recently discovered that my dad was adopted because he was a result of an affair. Then there’s the cheating d*cks you see everyday who try their luck.

  33. Hi ladies, I read the Perfect Marriage last night…it was a bit hard at first for me to get into it, I found the characters a little stilted and formal…then I got into it as they relaxed somewhat…so first, the H was the one who insisted on a lukewarm friendly marriage from the very beginning..he was still in live with someone else when he married the h…he wanted the h to stay busy while he worked, so she did…then when he wanted more passion, etc, he wasn’t able to communicate it to her in a forthright way, so he went and fell in “love” with a much younger bouncier woman…wasn’t too impressed with him there..
    Also, by the end I still wasn’t sure …did he believe he’d really fallen in love with the OW or not? All in all he was not the worst cheating H that we’ve read, this one didn’t make my heart rate and cortisol levels spike and make me want to yell at somebody…Anyway, I was happy for the h because she did want him back, and she got him..I can’t really see him cheating again, I think I’m future if he feels his needs aren’t being met he will try harder to communicate that rather than go off with another woman again…another thing, I would have liked to see how it all would’ve played out if the h hadn’t gotten pregnant…I know he said he wanted her back before he knew of her pregnancy, but if she hadn’t gotten pregnant and the OW came back to try to get him back in the end like she did, would he have struggled more? Considered going back to the OW? I know he wanted his wife back before knowing about the pregnancy, but how badly? Also it was just too cliched that the h got pregnant..of course she did…but yeah I think it would’ve been more interesting if she hadn’t, so we could see how committed the H would’ve been without the baby

    • I read it too. They read very sophisticated to me. But stilted/formal works too. ?
      The pregnancy was a cliche for sure, but I think he would’ve found his way back to her anyway. The baby just sealed the deal. This is what I wrote before seeing your review.

      Ok. A Perfect Marriage… I liked it!
      It seems they married out of convenience. Best friends to lovers. Perfectly compatible, but lacking passionate love.

      He seemed like he was trying to be closer to her, but she blew him off (early in the book). I think sometimes women focus so much on their homes, charity, social engagements, etc. that they don’t prioritize the right people. It’s something that happens over time, I think. But I also think he welcomed her extracurricular activities until he didn’t. It took his affair for them to realize they really did have love and passion.

      He seemed conflicted almost immediately after coming clean about cheating, but held on to Kate out of guilt for taking her virtue, and out of guilt for destroying his marriage. Really he just had a classic affair during a classic mid-life crisis. He wanted to be the center of someone’s world.

      He was an ass, sure. I didn’t see the wife as a doormat though. She actually came off pretty cool and collected, like “see ya asshole.” Burn!

      I didn’t give much thought to Kate, didn’t love or hate her. She was young and naive.

      I’ve always avoided harlequins because I expected them to be outdated. But this was good. Any other recommendations like this one?

      • Katie, try Michelle Reid, The Ultimate Betrayal. Both Tara and I liked it considering it was written in the 90s. Reid is a great Harleiquin writer.

      • Oooo, Katie, welcome to the world of Harlequin and Silhouette 🙂

        Your assessment of the story very much matches mine. It’s a little dated but still works for me. I like your thoughts about her being cool better than mine of her being a little bit of a doormat, I think my thoughts come from some of her inner thoughts, not from how she interacted with him, with him she’s a little kick ass 🙂 Your thoughts on the husband are spot on.

        Other books:

        The Ultimate Betrayal by Michelle Reid (cheating)
        Marriage Meltdown by Emma Darcy (cheating?? marriage in peril)
        The Mistress Bride by Michelle Reid (mistress not good enough to marry – tons of family interference)
        The Billionaire’s Pregnant Mistress by Lucy Monroe (drama filled angst)
        The Bellini Bride by Michelle Reid (mistress not good enough to marry??)
        Slave to Love by Michelle Reid (ex wife/child interference)
        The Unfaithful Wife by Lynne Graham (arranged marriage)
        Gold Ring of Betrayal by Michelle Reid (family interference/cheating accusations)
        Carol Marinelli’s Irresistible Russian Tycoon series (I think it’s 4 books–highly recommend)

        All are angst filled entertaining reads.

      • Same here, Katie, I’ve never been a harlequin/silhouette reader, but I actually liked this one…I agree, the husband did try a few times to spend time with his wife but she was oblivious…I read a book once by a marriage counsel or that said that emotional intelligence between mates can help avoid a lot of conflicts

    • The hero was lackluster to say the least. I think trip or no trip with the wife, the husband would have still cheated because he thought he was falling in love/lust with the OW and he believed something(passion) was missing in his life. He was grasping at straws by the time he wanted to take his wife away for some quality time.

      He won’t cheat again because he now knows what true love is. Whatever dude.

        • LOL

          Katie: Janet always like the OM and hates the cheating husband, that’s not going to change 😛

          Considering it’s a Silhouette, it’s a rather sophisticated story, taking on some interesting issues.

      • Unless he’s at a Christmas party and he and OW happen to be standing under a mistletoe. They’ll have to kiss because everyone is doing it.

        That was his excuse for kissing the OW that night then going home and having passionate sex with his wife.

        Is annoying when the wife hasn’t done anything wrong, but the husband knows he’s about to cross the line due to temptation bus does nothing about it.

        I can handle some form of distance due to circumstances.

        • You’re right BeeSA. I think sometimes people aren’t that in control of themselves though- to stop it before it starts. It’s only in the debrief of an affair that people see the situation clearly, what led to it and when lines were about to be crossed.

          • Janet – Soon at the wife left town then he ran to the OW. Wife even chirped him regarding that 🙂

            The wife notice he was acting weird. He was grumpy at one of the dinner event when the OW brought a date with.

            I also believe in the HEA, but hate it when the wife behaves, but then again the wife did have class.

          • Katie – true.

            People need to set boundaries and stick to it. So easy to slip up, especially after being with the same person for so many years.

        • Thanks Bee! That’s what I mean. He was set up to fail. He never felt this way before he said. So then how can he fight that kind of attraction day in and day out working with the OW? After the wife confronts him, doesn’t he just leave without talking it out? He just says sorry and then leaves. I do believe in their HEA but with this guy, he had to break bo peep’s hymen to realize the heroine isn’t second best after all. yuck. I counted how many times he said he loved the OW to his wife. I can’t remember now but he only told his wife like once. Then the book cuts to the end with a baby in the bassinet.

      • Heaven help anyone who crosses you, J. Are you forgiving when restaurants or Starbucks make a mistake on your order?
        What makes me say that. My dad is the mellowist guy, but he notoriously goes off when he feels cheated by Starbucks. It’s really weird.
        Anyway, I think you’re right- a trip wouldn’t have snapped him out of it. But he did snap out of it eventually. People make mistakes. Are there really 25 yo virgins anymore, anyway? That was one thing that seemed outdated.

        • I read it last night too girls….I thought it was funny that she wouldn’t get naked in front of her husband….Lol…I thought for a minute there would be twin beds. Our Lina walked naked with a bold strut in front of Phil….

      • Exactly, that’s why it’s so good!! He is grasping at straws, he’s 35+ finding himself attracted to a younger ingenue, it’s a perfect catastrophe. He tries to get the wife’s attention, but the wife is preoccupied by life and he’s bored.

        Once he starts cheating, he thinks it must be love, he can’t be just another cheating asshat husband, it must be love–right??

        But, he misses the wife and her companionship and their life together–now what??

        He realizes the wife is still beautiful and vibrant and now another man wants her. He shouldn’t be jealous, he’s in love with the OW–right??

        So maybe it’s not love, maybe it was just lust, maybe he’s a bored with the OW, she doesn’t get him, his family hates her. He’s made a mistake–it’s time to get out before it gets worse–right??

        He realizes he always loved his wife. Maybe the wife will take him back, let’s give it a little time, she’ll take him back–right??

        Crap, she’s pregnant and not saying who’s the father, it must be the other man’s–right??

        Now what?? The baby is the husband’s, he just wants to be part of the baby’s life, please let him–right??

        So, maybe he’ll try courting her, it might work–right??

        Oh no, the OW wants him back–is it possible??

        Nope, great scene with husband, wife and OW–lots of admissions and revelations. OW you are out in the cold.

        Declarations of real love, baby’s birth and HEA

        Harlequin/Silhouette angst at it’s BEST 🙂

      • Janet I started reading the Ultimate Betrayal last night after I finished the Perfect Marriage…the husband so far I don’t like at all.. he’s very dramatic that one..lol..will let you know what I think at the end ??

        • Miri–The Ultimate Betrayal–nice 🙂 Another asshat husband, but I love the wife’s level of grief and reactions–her inability to move on and yet holds the family together. That’s what worked so well for me.

  34. Hi Laura, to add to Holley’s question, when do you think Logan finally forgave Phil for his betrayal and stopped being angry? In the Epilogue, it took Adele two solid years to forgive Phil….

    • I think it’s more complicated than simple forgiveness. Logan love his father. The raw pain would go away within months of Liam moving in, but when Logan has kids of his own I think he would relive a bit of it

      • Laura, how so? Why would he feel pain again at the birth of his own children? And would he talk to Phil about it, or not feel comfortable doing that?

        Tracie, I think Adele would’ve taken the longest to come around..she was a take no prisoners type of person and also very protective of Lina…Megan and Katie didn’t seem to care much either way, and Logan probably would’ve forgiven Phil within the year I imagine, but some pin would definitely still linger I think

      • Feeling guilty because he expected Phil not to acknowledge or love his son even though he was a result of an affair?

        Now that Logan is a dad, he realised you can’t just switch off your love for your own child even under tough circumstances?

        • No. Looking at his own children and knowing he would never cheat on their mother. By this point he understands that Liam is part of the family. He doesn’t resent Liam at all. He just imagines what his dad risked and would judge him a bit again.

          • In WPF, Logan tells Phil in Chapter 38, that he would never do what he did..Phil says I hope that is true…Logan softened a little after that statement. Logan may also remember the pain and anger he felt towards his dad and would never want his own children to feel that way toward him.

          • I think Logan will be very careful when he falls in love, he will go into it knowing he will never risk straying.

            It’s not surprising he judges, rightly or wrongly he had his father on a pedestal. Phil has expectations that Logan is afraid of not being able to reach and then his father falls from grace, not living up to the expectations he sets for others.

          • Oh ok, i thought maybe he may have felt guilty about Phil love towards Liam. I suppose he shouldn’t because he was a teenage then and he shouldn’t feel guilty at what he felt when he was younger and in that situation.


  35. Miri – hello 🙂 I did the Rheti test. About 144 questions and you need about 40min to answer it all. They have a sample of the test on the enneagramacademy.com website. Not 100 accurate because not the full test but they say you’ll be one of the top 3 result.

    Otherwise, search Rheti on your phone apps. There’s a full version there for free.

  36. Ladies, I’m reading a “true life” cheating husband book.

    Has anyone read Smashed to Pieces: A True Story of Love, Betrayal, Recovery, Healing and Growth?

    It comes up recommended in the end of a bunch of cheating stories. First third of the book is backstory. I’m at 38% and he’s unbelievable and the OW is her best friend–major yikes–it’s getting very angsty–she just told him to get out, can’t imagine where this is going.

    • This sounds heartbreaking. I’ll pick this one up too. Is it non-fiction or fiction based on true events?

      • It’s non-fiction–it’s a strange memoir of sorts, not well written, the woman is all over the place. It’s available on KU.

      • Lol Katie! Non fiction- no way. I’ll just come here and badger you guys for stories at that point. I like true crime novels but not true cheating. I did have one in the want to read pile that I eventually took out. It ended with a double fatality!

          • OMG, the wife/writer, freaking crazy, 65% in and she’s in full blown meltdown, vacillating between thinking the husband has a mental illness or a brain tumor, because how else can you explain him going from a loving husband to cheating dickhead. How about he’s a dickhead and your a nut job.

        • Katie, somehow I read your post as breathtaking instead of heartbreaking! I thought you were being sarcastic! Omg. Ok yes heartbreaking. I agree!!

          • I went into this one blind—didn’t read one review. I probably should have! 93% in, it’s a year since she found out, the affair is over, their home has sold, they’re on the verge of divorce, and he wants his family back. You can’t make this crap up!

            Honestly, I feel bad for her, she was a hysterical mess, but she said and did insane things, including her children in the chaos.

      • Not old or ugly, they look like the perfect couple, she’s a competitive swimmer and he’s a successful businessman.

        I know there’s no right way to react, and as this is a true story, it’s very compelling, but the things she did and said? Really crazy, put her children in the middle. Terry might find it interesting, the OW was basically driven out of town. Between the 2 families that were ruined they had 8 children!

        Through the whole mess she took a counseling course and his now a counselor, all I can say is WOW!

        • Ok, im going to look just to see who these crazy town folks are. sheesh! She must have really loved her husband to go through all this.

        • right BeeSA! I don’t want to visualize two middle aged people doing any of this. sort of like in real life it’s Tanya Harding but then Margo Robbie played her in the movie. I can watch Margo but don’t want to see Tonya.

  37. Hi Laura, I have a question! So we know that In the 25 years that Phil and Lina were together, this was the biggest “fight” they’ve ever had (his cheating and baby)…it’s the biggest hurdle they’d ever encountered…but over the years what would have been some of the other smaller stuff that they would’ve fought about?…they say most couples fight about sex, money, and relatives…were those ever issues in their 25 year relationship? I imagine probably Phil’s working a lot, but anything else? Because in both books they seem to be on the same page about most things…(aside from the Katie thing, and the cheating that came with that)

    • Miri I’m sure they had arguments about all things just like any other married couple. However, I don’t believe Phil would have spent a night on the couch prior to the affair.

      • No ways Phil would have slept in the guest room prior to the affair. He’s too alpha to leave his own bed. That’s his bed and no one kicking him out!

        Only reason he slept in the guest bedroom was because of the guilt and he didn’t want to make Lina uncomfortable where she left their bed to get away from him.

        • I agree with you ladies, I think guilt over the affair was the only incident extreme enough to warrant him sleeping in the guest room…it’s just, after so many years together, don’t all couples bicker and fight over certain things? Even soul mates fight, I’m just not sure about what lol…I guess I just see their marriage pre-Katie’s issues and pre-affair as being perfect every day and in every way and I’m like, is that real? Is that possible in a marriage?

          • Oh BeeSa, I did an online enneagram questionnaire, but there are so many of them on the internet that I didn’t know which one to pick…the one I did didn’t tell me straight out what number I was, it just gave me a percentage next to each one indicating which I’m closest to…I got the same top % for 4 and 5…is that how your test went or was mine not a good site to take the test on?

          • Miri – one i did was quite long – about 150 questions. I did it through work but i did come across an app you can download – developer Mztit.

            I’ll have to check on my work computer tomorrow to see which one i did.

            Results are in percentage and normally one of the top 2 highest.

          • Definitely had the odd disagreements but they would have been able to resolve it. Doubt they were the type of couple that went to bed angry.

            Phil was a family man, so I’m sure he tried to attend all the major important events in his kids life and sport events when he can. Lina knew he had a demanding job and as long as he attended most, I’m sure everyone was okay.

            Phil no doubt happy with his life when everything in control at home with the kids – doing well at school and no rebellious teen episodes.

            Phil and Lina life all good. Remember Lina mentioned that she and Phil seemed a lot closer since the affair when she was chatting to Adele?

            Also their friends considered them ‘the golden couple’ since they always seemed so in love.

    • Hi Miri,

      The only reason Phil slept in the guestroom was to give Lina space — she threatened to leave. The second time was at Christmas. I’m sure they fought occasionally over the years because his parenting style was tougher than hers. Plus I think he worked a bit too much in the early years — wasn’t there a scene where she remembered him trying to go home early from a vacation for work? Given all that, neither of them ever slept in another room.

      • Hi Laura,
        What was Logan thinking and feeling on Thanksgiving Day? They were spending it at Mike’s without Lina.
        I also wonder why Phil had to show up at worm functions and Diane’s party without Lina, what was he thinking and feeling? Sad, angry, gloomy?

        • Remember Lina told the kids she was spending Thanksgiving with her mom and sisters. Logan didn’t want to leave her , but she made him and assured him she was fine. As far as Phil and parties – he only went to the parties that he saw more as work functions and I think he was just going through the motions of life. He was gloomy

          • In my opinion, Phil was only half a person without Lina. Having Lina at those parties made Phil shine. I know Phil didn’t care, but I wonder if people were judging him at those parties, like Tom kind of did for cheating on Lina. I’m sure there was some jealousy among Phil’s peers regarding his success and his wife. Those people would be his worst critics.

  38. I’ve been reading books on my kindle that I had downloaded over the months, per recommendations here.
    The last few nights I read The Fourth Child. I thought this one was pretty good!
    Tara, I saw you rated it on Goodreads, what did you think?

    • I read it Kbabe but while back. He totally dined and wined the witch while the wife was at home sweating from cooking and taking care of the girls.
      Tara liked it. So did Deighj and Ann.

      Tara, what is that other silhouette one where the couple is married for 12 years and the husband leaves her for the young virgin lawyer in his office? I just could not forgive that one. Katie, I want you to read that and tell me your thoughts on that book please.

      • A Perfect Marriage by Laurie Bright. I like this one with a caveat, he’s an ass, and she’s a bit of a doormat. I like when she shows her backbone and confronts him at different points in the book. The scene with the OW near the end is a good one. I like that he admits his failures to both his wife and the OW. Not remotely perfect, I went with the author and believed their HEA—don’t see him doing it again.

        • I recall that book. Love it when she puts him in his place. Especially when she ask personal questions regarding him and his mistress and he doesn’t want to answer because it’s between him and OW. Meh.

          Hate that the wife was faithful even during the seperation. Why must the husband always have all the fun?

          Couple didn’t realise they were in love till it hit them in the face – wife losing her husband to OW and husband struggling to let go and move on with his life with the OW. Also believed thiet HEA. They both needed a wake up call, just a pity the wife didn’t have a toy boy to enjoy while separated.

          • Don’t read! Katie and Miri,

            At times she’s a doormat and yet once she’s mad, she has no issues confronting him and putting him on the spot.

            She had ample opportunity to have a relationship but chose not to, she was still in love with her husband, she wasn’t ready to move on. And, she does play on his jealousy, though It’s not intentional.

        • Are there scenes with the husband and OW? I’ve been liking those- they help me understand.

          In the Fourth Child, I had to respect that he came clean before sex. But he still had an affair. A very real and very hurtful one. I’m glad he saw it for what it was by the end, and that they worked it out. The wife had too high of expectations of him, but she figured that out too. I hated the OW of course. Slutbag. And putting the lipstick in his glove compartment. She deserves a kick to her glove compartment. I liked it. I gave it 4 stars.

          • I gave it 4 ⭐️ too. I agree it’s still an affair. And, the lipstick was totally on purpose. She set out to catch him.

        • Yes that’s the one! The perfect marriage. I never remember the titles unless I really liked the author. I would like your opinions on it. The OW wasn’t a bad person. Just selfish and naive so you may not hate her.

          Yes, the lipstick in compartment was great! I loved that part. Lol.

          • I didn’t hate her and the wife didn’t either. I actually can’t wait to hear Katie and Miri’s thoughts. It’s a quick read.

            I like that the characters are rather honest about thoughts and feelings. Katie and Miri stop reading here and ignore this…

            After the fact, he was very self aware and knew he really screwed up, owned he was a man approaching middle age, attracted to a younger woman and acted on it and thought it was love. But, I don’t like him as a character, that’s why I say I went with it. Does he earn her forgiveness and redemption–yep? Mine–nope. Not my story. One of my favorite expressions is ‘not my monkey, not my circus…’ fits this story for me.

          • Don’t read this Katie and Miri.

            I never heard of that expression Tara but it’s fitting. Even in the last few pages he said he did love the OW somewhat. He was brutally honest about his feelings regarding the OW I thought. he never had that kind of passion with his wife and I hated him. I didn’t forgive him. When the L(love and lust) words are involved I have a hard time with the MCs. Out of all the pics Kim sent Lina the dancing picture bothered me for months because what Lina said about Phil’s expression in the picture.

          • Again, Katie and Miri–don’t read 🙂

            But, he does find that passion with his wife–completely after the fact. Neither were forthcoming with their emotions, they married not being passionately in love. I like him being brutally honest and if a husband is going to leave for the OW, he’d better at least think he’s in love with her. I still don’t like him and could easily have seen him out in the cold, realizing he wasn’t in love with the OW, but seeing his wife move on (not that she remotely was moving on).

          • And, I agree, what Lina sees in the dancing picture is distressing, though as a reader we have to go with his explanation, right? All through both books Phil says he was not remotely in love and wouldn’t ever leave Lina. Got to go with it 🙂

          • Don’t read!!

            I don’t know Tara. Something didn’t sit well with me after reading that book. I accept it in real life. I do. But this is a SIMoments and I wanted the author to gloss over a bit. Remember after the Xmas party, the husband comes home and has passionate sex with the wife for the first time? And the wife accused him of thinking about the OW later? That was it for me. I hated him after that. I wished she moved on with the OM- as usual.

          • Don’t read 🙂

            She accused him of that, but at that point he hadn’t fully gotten involved with the OW. He was asking the wife to go away and I think that was his way of trying to work on the marriage. And, they had another “passionate” encounter after he was with the OW–that was yucky, but he owned that too.

            Not defending him. I think he was an entitled guy going into middle age and thought he deserved something better to realize it wasn’t better and had regrets. I like that we don’t hear his thoughts, he’s a putz and needed to own what he did and actually speak the words out loud.

            I liked that you felt her emotions throughout the book and he owned what he did and admitted how wrong he was–that was enough for me to buy the HEA, but like I said if it weren’t a Silhouette Romance, and instead woman’s fiction, I could easily see him swinging in the wind–letting go of the OW and the wife moving on–that ending would have worked for me too.

        • If you all come across books with husband and OW scenes please share them here! ?. Thanks!

          Bee, I will check your serial killer one today. Sounds interesting!

    • I liked The Fourth Child, though I didn’t really like the wife. It’s a slippery slope cheating story, without the sex. I like that he didn’t take it to the next level before telling the wife. I love that she told him about the pregnancy during marriage counseling, it had a nice FU feel to it. I felt comfortable with them finding their HEA.

  39. Good Morning Girls, I read WPF again this weekend and I still had anxiety…Lol… I was thinking about the court scene in SN, right after Lina said “He agrees.” Kim and Phil continued to look at each other after Lina made that statement. What do you think their silent conversation consisted of prior to Kim saying “Good”?????

    I’m thinking Phil thought “I hate you..”

    I’m thinking Kim thought “I gave you a run for your money, big boy. I hope your wife enjoys raising my son.”

    Then when Phil turns to look at Lina, I think his thoughts would of been how very much he loves her as he pulls her into his arms.

    • Kim was determined to leave and didn’t want the court to delay her. When Lina said “he agrees” Kim didn’t even wait for Phil to respond, she agreed straight away. Not sure what was going through Phil mind, think there was a lot to process at once. Think he was preparing to say goodbye to Liam. Not sure he was expecting Kim to give up Liam so easily, since he was the main “tool” in her scheme to breakup Phil marriage.

    • I think Phil was probably a bit In shock, and elated…he hadn’t expected Lina to just agree like that..he probably needed a second to process it

    • I think he’s probably frozen in shock, never expecting her to just hand over Liam. And, thankful it’s done.

  40. Janet you will snag this think question! What do you think Kim was thinking on her run after the Thanksgiving Scene, where Phil told her she was nothing to him?

    • Hi Tracie! You mean when Kim went running crying? I think that’s when she finally gave up on Phil and started seeing him in a new light. Maybe she was thinking she wasted so much time on a crazy jerk. He’s not that great in bed(lol) and his bossiness always bothered her, Etc. she will try and focus on all the negative traits in Phil to make herself feel better. I told you about my selfish friend right? That’s how she justified it when the guy wouldn’t marry her. She texted me what is wrong with him? Can you believe what an idiot he is? I can’t believe I wasted my time with this loser. She did this for two weeks and then moved on to another guy. I’m not exaggerating. She never blamed herself for anything.

      • Didn’t she tried to “connect” with him a few weeks later when he was at her house and mentioned she has a cute video of him on her cell?

        I was thinking after the whole Christmas episode, knowing she really messed up and he was looking at her with total disgust.

        • Ok! I forgot the video of Liam came after the run. I think by the time she left on her ski trip she was over Phil and was looking forward to the vacation with someone else. Of course if Phil changed his mind about her then she would have dropped the other guy like a hot potato but I feel like she was moving forward by then. She just wanted to fob Liam off to Phil from the texts we saw.

        • BeeSa – I think I accidentally called your sister a bitch (down below) – I’m so sorry, that’s not what I meant!! I just meant that guys often like women who don’t treat them very well and are hard to get..Eeee I’m so sorry it came out that way 🙁

          • Miri – i missed that post. I had to go hunting for it. No worries, i think she knows she’s a bitch 😉

            True though with some guys. Probably to do with the “hunt”. Men like hunting and if you’re to easy and available to them, they’ll get bored. With my sister they never quite have her in their hands.

    • She was no doubt hurt and in denial. Probably trying to convince herself that he’s lying and they were more than just a “fuck”. Probably reflecting back on their nights together.

      • I think she realized she was done on the video scene too. When he was hostile toward her and she handed Liam to him without saying a word..That’s when she started her departure plan. Lina surprised Kim in more ways than one. She thought moving so close to them and Phil’s visitation would do Lina in like the pictures did…She was wrong! Lol…. Also, when she was running she didn’t think Phil was bad in bed LOL…..I think she thought what have I done? I have a kid I don’t really want and a man that didn’t choose me! Boo hoo.

    • Janet I’m reading a me and you thing…right now I’m reading where Quinn remembers and returns home and she knows about Sawyer and Bree..it is so awkward..and I’m finding Bree a little annoying..she is being wicked by creating doubts in both Sawyer and Quinn’s head about taking care of girls..that is so unfair and bad..Quinn will get her health back..I am angry at Bree

      • I find it similar to unbreak my heart..in some ways ..here the hero was in love with the heroine there the hero married heroines friend evnthough he knew deep down he had feelings for heroine..

      • Hi Hinata! I haven’t read it yet. You will have to review that for us when you finish. Do you like the husband?

        Miri, I’m replying here so you don’t scroll down. The husband dies of a heart attack. Chad(yucky name) falls in love with someone else and they have a daughter together. But the wife turns into a bitchy lesbian so they divorce and chad moves back and the couple get back together. The author is a trip writing crazy after crazy.

        • Wait??

          Janet, are you saying the author kills off the crying baby man husband? I haven’t read this and now I’m sure I won’t. I read book 4 of this series, it’s KU and I wasn’t willing to spend a dime trying this author. The characters are frighteningly immature.

          • Yes. The old man and wife get back together then in the next one she kills him off(I think they were together for 10 years). He never cheated and they had a good life but it all happens pretty early on in the book. I skimmed it while back so can’t remember the details. I didn’t know she wrote 4 of them!

          • I think it’s called The a Seven Year Itch and I believe 2 of the books are unrelated to the cheating criers.

        • I gave up on that series. Think i still had two books to go.

          Busy reading a serial killet romance book. The lady is a serial killer – hunting and killing a group of men who did her wrong years ago. She chops off their penises. She also bumps into an FBI and falls for him.

          Author S.T. Abby. First book called “The risk”. Its old an series.

          I enjoy reading series.

    • Seducing the Duchess Is an ok read..hero marries heroine for revenge because heroine’s brother elopes with hero’s fiance
      He ignores her for three years ,has a mistress..then suddenly starts loving heroine and showers her with his affection..but the heroine doesn’t believe him and asks for divorce but hero won’t let that happen..instead he makes a deal with her that she should show him how to behave with his future wife then he’ll let her go..
      It was average but I liked the way heroine stood strong instead of reacting immediately on her feelings for hero

    • It’s been years since I’ve read a historical romance..for some reason I can really get into them anymore..I like the contemporary ones now

      • Me too regarding historical. I do read them once in a while though. Kerrigan Byrne is one author everyone’s reading now. I read two of hers and they were good but both were slow burns so you have to be in the mood for those.

        • Oh I’ve read a few of hers a couple of years ago..I liked them, but my fave historical of all time is Judith Mcgnaught!! I picked up my first J.M. book when I was 13 and I still have all of them lol

          • Hi Miri! What happened to her? I was part of the mcnaughtized fan group in the 80s and she just disappeared. I hope she’s alive and well in Texas! I know her mom passed away and that was very hard for her. She was so classy! Have you read Lisa Kleypas? Her historicals are to die for. ?

          • Janet I know! JM just kind of disappeared in the mid ninetines I think? after she released a one or two last contemporaries (in her case her historicals were my fave)..I had to make do with Jude Deveraux after that 🙁 lol
            Yes, I’ve read literally every single Lisa K ever released…with her I love both her historicals and contemporaries..hard to go wrong with her

  41. Finished reading Bereft and meh, i wouldn’t take the hubby back. It’s one thing to hurt me but a whole other ball game to hurt your daughter. Also the fact that he did it in their house on numerous occasion – no respect to the wife at all.

    Men need to open up and TALK when they feeling unloved or listen to some Brene Brown talks on vulnerability.

    Also if the wife not giving the husband sex, then they must know there’s a good chance he will get it elswhere (unless he’s aware of your low libido and its caused by medication, illness and he’s not an asshole)

    Lets face it, men feel loved, desired, wanted etc through sex.

    • Ya I was also thinking the same they feel wanted,desired,alive and all during sex
      And I also think the main reason for a person to stray is he doesn’t have self control while their is a temptation..he thinks with his dick thereby putting his family at risk

      Terry I’m sorry if I hurt you..but I never thought about the affair that happened in your community as a joke..I put the blame on the married men first because they know what is going to happen if they stray but still they take the risk…I’m always more angry at men compared to the whores who tempt them.. where are their heads and ,they have responsibilities to take care of . Why loose a beautiful family where you invest so much time just to have a fling..it disgusts me how men give up so easily for pleasure…
      And I hope and pray that your daughter ,your girlfriend and the wives of those useless men find strength and happiness in their lives and I pray for you to have all the health and happiness..

      • Oh Hinata,you didn’t hurt me! I truly don’t know what would case these men to put their families through this. One of the men is a dog, so that wasn’t a surprise. Both the wives great and the OW’S friends. I AGREE with you! The men should be made accountable as well. In this situation, they did not bear the social ramifications that she did. I know the families had healing and work to do, as her kids are friends with her kids. But remember, I look at them differently and with sympathy, because who would do that to their families? No hust and no worries!

    • I finished Bereft last night. It wasn’t as awful as I expected. I felt bad for the husband, because, how could he compete with Chad? I’m usually all about the older man, but Chad was a sweet “horse” boy. ?? Neither of them ended their affairs on their own…the husband seemed genuinely sorry, but would he have stopped had he not been caught? And jesus, the crying. But anyway, I didn’t care either way if the wife took him back. I hope they’re happy.

      BeeSA- I 100% agree about the importance of sex in a relationship. Although, many still cheat when they’re getting it at home, and some never cheat even though they aren’t getting any at home. Lack of sex is a symptom of bigger issues. But connecting in the bedroom always helps. In my opinion. Sorry for the PSA, but I think more and better sex is the key (or one of them) to a happy marriage.

      • Katie I stopped reading at around 80% of Bereft because I know she stays with her mewling hubby, but in the next book I think she takes up with Chad again so Woo Hoo!! LOL

      • and Katie, I don’t think the hubby would’ve stopped cheating if he hadn’t been caught..he wasn’t very intelligent that one

      • Katie – oh I know its more than just sex. Need to allow yourself to be vulnerable and able to communicate with your partner when there’s something bothering you.

        Just mentioning the sex part of the relationship.

    • Hi Bee, did you think the husband was a creep? Like a dirty old creep? I just remember thinking this guy should be a side character in a porn flick. once he started bawling in front of the wife it was game over. The OM was a dirty younger man too. Gross all around. The whole book made me wig out a bit but of course I skimmed the second one in the series to see how it all ends. Lol. I’m going to ruin it for all of you so you don’t read the next one. The bawling creep dies!??

      • Janet – creepy part only because it was his daughter best friend. Also the fact he was so excited that she basically begged him to sex in the ass. Now that I’m thinking about it, he was disgusting, especially since he had sex with her on their family couch and in his bed he shared with his wife.

        Glad the wife slept with the younger guy on their bed as well.

        Don’t worry, i read the second and third book. Thinking about the fourth book. Haven’t been invested in these characters. I land up skim reading.

      • Janet you just totally described him perfectly!!! A dirty old creep, side character from a vintage porn flick!! ??? I totally see it!! LMAO!
        I saw your spoiler about the husband’s demise…meh I can live with that..how does he die? Accidental or is it some long drawn out thing where he blubbers for 6 months and the h wants to suffocate him with a pillow?

  42. I’m going to the Watermelon Festival tomorrow. Didn’t someone want a recipe with something to do with rinds???..Still looking for one on persimmons….

    • When I was a teenager, I worked on a horse farm (now it would be called interning—worked for free riding lessons ?). I learned to can there, we made everything from bread and butter pickles to Queen Ann’s Lace jelly, including pickled watermelon rind (not my favorite, I didn’t like the texture).

      Enjoy the festival… isn’t there a country song about a watermelon festival?

    • Did Miri sleep? Boy, we sure do have opinions! Tracie, how fun! it’s me who wants the recipe if it’s easy to get. We already gave Kbabe the recipe for persimmon bread.

      • Janet hi!!! I’m just scrolling through the msg’s first time today…went to bed at around 3:30 then woke up late and went to brunch with a friend..just got home now and dove for my laptop lol…how’s everyone’s Saturday going? It’s beautiful out here today without the usual gross humidity bleh…

    • I’m not a huge fan of watermelon, but i did enjoy a watermelon and feta cheese salad this lady made at a braai. First time tasting it and i went for seconds. I must google a recipe and make it when it’s watermelon season (assuming it’s a summer fruit). Totall forgot about the watermelon feta cheese salad till i read your post.

      I’m a mango fan but it must be on the sour side.

  43. Miri, Noooo! Don’t feel bad at all.That wasn’t the main point. There was a lot going on.It’s very hard as a parent to see your child go through this, especially since I was going through treatment. I am 2 years out, and am NED, no evidence of disease. I have to tell you, it gave me something to do! Thank goodness for my girlfriend. It was awful. Our whole barn knew. They are now banned from the barn. I was going to go on a smear campaign, but clearly didn’t have to. Also, I have to not get worked up. That’s not me, but for a while I was VICIOUS. But we are all doing well, and you know what is happening to them. Also, if I were to get mad at every stupid person, who doesn’t have good morals, I would be so tired. I try and focus on the good. I still have to see them around.

    Being sick is one of the reasons I read WPF so much. When I was reading after treatment, I couldn’t focus. I had re read books so I could keep the plot line. Probably reading about a manipulative homewrecker wasn’t such a good choice, but I love these books.

    You know what was so surprising? The number of people who said something to the effect of “Why is your daughter so sad? This happens all the time. She knows this!” Uhhh no! How? Her dad and I are very much together, and she saw how much closer we became through our ordeal. I guess it is more the norm than not. As we get older, we are hearing about more friends getting divorced, but not because of a Kim. Don’t worry Miri. Remember, YOU CRACK ME UP!! It’s all good! Ask away. I see her all the time, and I am still not in jail!! THAT’S WHAT YOU SHOULD WORRY ABOUT!!???

  44. Hey here’s a small experiment I’m conducting on astrology depending on your psychology (the way you all talk here) according to my observation
    It’s all a guess work ,please do let me know if I’m right about your zodiacs
    Janet and Miri told they are Libras
    Tracie said she is saggitarus I was actually thinking you might be a cancer or sagg
    Laura is a virgo from her birthday I saw in Google
    I think Terry is an aries
    Tara you might be a gemini
    Katie you might an Aquarius or Pisces
    BeeSA you are a Capricorn
    Holley you are a bit confusing you are outgoing and entertaining too are you a leo or a scorpio ?
    This is just my guess work …do tell me if I’m wrong

      • Ya sure beeSA I will
        You even attached a link about it somewhere know?

        And I’m a capricorn with Libra rising and Leo moon

        • Hinata – i don’t know much about horoscopes. I’m based in the southern hemisphere so i was born in winter just after 1am.

          In a nutshell, I’m quiet and more reserved till i get to know the person. I get along with everyone but I’m more comfortable around men. I’m single and don’t need a man in my life to make me happy. I love outdooors, extreme sports – skydiving, bungee jumping off a 216m bridge. Even did the oribi gorge swing with a friend. She jumped legs firts and i did a somersault(off a cliff next to a waterfall). I love the adrenaline rush.

          Very loyal to my friends but ive been described as ‘close gaurded’. I don’t talk about my inner feelings. To me there’s right and wrong, no middle.

          I enjoy being active and big into open water swimming events – dam or ocean.

          Also been described as having a dry sense of humour.

          I seem to get along with virgos.

          I’ve dated an aries – not for me.

          • Wth bee!!! You lost me at 216 m bridge. You are one scary cool chick! You jump off a plane and come home to read romance novels?! Bahaha awesome!!

      • I have to say the first guy who broke my heart was a cancer, so I stay away from cancer guys lol (especially if their venus is in gemini) but I love cancer females! For all their self-protectiveness, they tell it like it is! lol

        • Miri – so true. When my mates asking for advice on men or relationships, i have to remind myself to be gentle when i chat to them. I like to tell it like it is without sugar coating. Although this is an Enneagram 7 approach. I’m more of a believer of that than my horoscope.

          • Yes, I’ve never found cancers to be sugar-coaters…..they’re like Scorpio in that sense, but nicer hahaha! (My sis and mom are both Scorpios lol..they give it to me straight but it often stings!)….
            I gotta check out this enneagram thing, it sounds really cool!!

        • What is about Taurus?
          My husband is a Sag. My daughter is an Aquarius.
          Tell me some interesting things about these signs and relationships among them!!

          • I always find Taurus dudes to be warm, earthy, affectionate, kinda bossy (I love bossy guys and I don’t know why!! lol)..they act tough but are like melted marshmellows underneath..omg taurus guys are to die!! And I’ve always gotten along pretty well with the females..my niece is a taurus…but omg can you say stubborn!?!? lol!…although air and earth supposedly don’t “mix” well, both signs share a ruling planet (venus) (well technically she’s just on “loan” to taurus until its ruling planet is located but it’s been this way forever I think??)..

            Yes Sagg and Aquarius would totally get along…both are free spirits, non-jugdy (though they judge lol), and are often adventurers (of the mind if not physically)..hopefully they don’t gang up on you too often LOL!

        • Whenever I read about the signs I don’t think their characteristics match up with each of us, but I do think my husband “gets” my daughter more than I do. And that seems to make sense with the signs. She’s a free spirit through and through. I have glimpses of being like that, but I think I Christian school beat that out of me growing up. ?

        • Oh cool Hinata! I have my mars in leo (my venus and mercury is in scorpio which is why I’m so slow to forgive cheating husbands!! LOL)..what Chinese year were you born in? I’m a goat lol…I read a great book once by Suzanne White where she combines Western and Chinese astrology – really good! I think it was called “the New Astrology”?