I’m totally impressed with people who review professionally. Writing one on my kindle is frustrating and I always feel terrible when I dont like a book. It takes me forever to find something nice to say to try and make it better.
Katie, do you need my review to go to amazon? I never review there. Can I just say 5 stars, review on goodreads? It’s mainly to let people view SN with high reviews?
I think amazon is the most important place for reviews just cause it’ll show up more often like Katie said. I had to review through my coworker’s account because amazon apparently knows I’m connected ?
So for me, Phil is completely redeemed by the end of chapter 2. Amazing story, completely ready for spoiler thread! On my way to work this morning I cried thinking about Logan.
I left my 5 star review on Amazon already. I did not want to forgive Phil but I couldnt help it. Thanksgiving did it for me. Needed tissues after that scene and I was team Phil through to the end. I was sad when it ended. I wasnt ready!
Omgg for me too! I left a review on goodreads and that was the exact same moment I forgave him. How odd! I wanted your thoughts because I completely agreed with your review on WPF here. Now, I really need your TBR list. Lol
When he is comparing this year to last year and specifically what ruined last year for him? Such a small thing and he mourned the lack and it ruined the day for him. Then to have it back? I was completely satisfied with the way he felt about it. I’m so glad to have had his voice this time around.
I will quite happily go more in depth once those who didnt have all evening to read catch up. Thankfully, my husband understands about my books and wrangled all the kids and dinner.
Ladies – I pushed the publish button at 9:51 am. The kindle version will be available within the next 72 hours. It usually takes under 24 hours to go live
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support I can’t tell you how much it means to me. And a special shout out to Katie who keeps me sane and does so much more behind the scenes to support me. I love you all
Thanks for your wonderful books Laura. We love you too!! Thanks Katie for everything you did for Laura. Your pinterest boards were awesome too.
I’d like to also shout out to Tracie and Janet for the comic relief!!
and I know Deighj is wondering about the print version — I’m working on that now. Amazon used to provide a service where they formatted both the kindle and print version — they no longer do this, so I’m figuring it out.
Aww schucks. ??
It’s my pleasure, but there are many thanks to be spread around. I’m so glad SN is ready for mass consumption- it’s so special!
A story of true love; I’ve never read anything like it.
Girls, this has been a great time. Laura thank you for putting up with all our questions and antics over the last nine months. Loved your boards Katie, you have a true talent. Janet you are my reason and sunshine you make see past my own tunnel vision (unless it is about Phil)…LOL Jordan you are a doll…thank you for your hard work, and Happy Birthday angel…..Ann and Deighj you girls brought a breath of fresh air to us all….
Good morning ladies!! Countdown to SN! Can’t wait to see how Kim fairs out! Hope she gets her just dues! I hope Phil doesn’t let us down. He sure has some making up to do with Lina.
Well girls I started back to work today, busy morning but I’m doing fine…I was thinking this morning while I was getting dressed, if those ugly ass Frankenstein scars on my thigh, would jeopardize my chances for the swim suit competition of the beauty pageant I’m entered in this Spring…LOL That cracked me up….Just Kidding…..
Oh Tracie that’s good news. Take it easy today. We need you to be the voice of reason for Phil lovers once we all get to read SN. Hopefully you can sway Janet.
Ann — as soon as it goes live I’ll start a Swimming Naked discussion thread!
Yes, the snow is beautiful. We received over 10 inches. Chandler loves it!
I’m so excited…that is wonderful. So proud of you Laura, you crossed the finish line and I’m sure it will be a wonderful story and HEA for our Hunter family……
Hi Tracie. It’s still snowing. It’s beautiful though.
Can’t wait for the 18th and for you and Janet to feed off each other on SN. I know you love Phil and Janet is iffy! Its going to be so good to hear everyone’s comments.
Laura He’s hot isn’t he…Sexy I’m hoping Lucas is a cross between Phil and Tony…I didn’t say Joseph because he snatched that damn phone…Joseph would of posed for the picture…Lol
Hey everybody. I have a non SN related question too. I apologize in advance for using this blog to gather info but I need recommendation on some decent tasting protein powders. Plant based is preferred. Bought garden of life brand and it’s not good. I’ve gained so much weight since November and can’t seem to lose the extra blubber. Any thoughts?
Did you try the chocolate or peanut butter garden of life? My friend loves it.
I use Nutiva hemp protein. Do you have a Choice Juicery by you? I’ve successfully copied their Superhero smoothie. Hemp protein, almond milk, sprouted almonds (soaked almonds), banana, dash of cinnamon, dates to sweeten. So good! Carries me through breakfast and lunch.
I have chocolate. But it’s Goopier than I remember. I will look for nutiva! I don’t have choice juicery near me. But it’s similar to what I get here. The thing is I gain weight with that one bc it tastes too good. Thank you!!
Hello Ladies!!!
Janet I use Vegan One coconut almond and I love it, vanilla chai is also good. The trick for a good smoothie is to use a good protein flavor that you really like… Then you can add kale or different veggies or something with nutritional value. Good luck ?
Thank you Linda! I see this one all the time but never tried. I’ll look for it now with Katie’s rec’s.
Looking forward to Phil’s redemption? You, Debs, and I were hard on Phil in WPF. Lol. I EXPECT you all to put your reviews here so we can compare “notes.” Missed you!
Thanks you’re so sweet ?….Reading WPF again, I’m trying to be more objective with Phil LOL. This week will be a long one… Friday SN, “so excited ” and Saturday I have tickets to see Hamilton, Lin Manuel Miranda is in PR and I admire him so much ??
Yep looking forward to Phil’s redemption ?
Linda — How awesome for you! I would have love to see it with him!
Wow! You are so lucky to see it with him!! Lucky ducky!!
Laura…. A very exciting week thanks to you and Lin Manuel ?
Any news about your friend adventure with the wild life? I went this past summer to Yellowstone and a couple of National Parks, so beautiful, a humbling experience!! I hope your friend have a wonderful time.
Linda — love the Yellow Stone, Glacier and all the National Parks! My friend is on the last quarter of her hike. She has hiked over 1,600 miles — crazy!
Totally random question- what are your favorite brands for intimates?
Hello! Fun question but boring answer from me. I wear tanks/ camisoles with everything. Love long Vince tanks and gap hipsters. Hanro when they go on sale. I bet you all wear thongs. Lol
No thongs for me. They’re uncomfortable, so, if I did wear them, they’d be for my hubby, and he doesn’t care what my undies look like as long as they are coming off.
I like camis, bralettes, and hipsters too. Hanky Panky.
I need new intimates, so I thought I’d change it up if someone has like the “best underwear in the world” that they recommend.
Honest opinion here. Do you think the Phil haters will be satisfied?
Tell your husband that me and our Ravens are hoping that the Chargers kick the Patriots asses!!
Hi Girls is this the quiet before the storm…I’m sure Jordan is moving along with the proofing…I’m having trouble reading any new novels…until I can completely absorb SN and discuss with all my girls……Anything new Laura? How’s the weather in MD?
Hi!
Snowing in Maryland! I was thinking of reading tonight. Jordan told me she’d have the novel back to me by Monday. I’m anxiously awaiting.
Miss everyone! It’s been quiet today.
I’m 40 pages into the final edit! I’m making myself read slowly so I don’t miss anything, but I should be done by this time tomorrow. Can’t wait for everyone to read it!
Morning girls, we’re almost at the finish line now, our waiting over. It can’t get here soon enough for me.
Laura I told several gals about the sequel and want to let them know exactly when it will be available for download. I told them end of January but it sounds as though you’ll be publishing mid month. I promised them all questions would be answered so they’re anxious as well.
Hope you’re enjoying some down time now. Will you be taking some time off, deciding which book will be next or switching between future books? I’m wondering what will happen to the blog once we’ve dissected SN to our heart’s content. Do not want to lose touch with all of you on here.
Deighj — I will stay on here as long as the rest of you! As far as what’s next. I haven’t decided. I can’t let myself until SN is published. Once I start the next one, I won’t care about anything else.
Morning ladies. Oh I’m so happy! It’s coming to us soon. Can’t wait to revisit my favorite family. I hope Phil shows us just how much this whole affair affected him, as well as his family. I’m Team Phil, but I need more! LOL
Tracie and Janet, I bet you can’t contain yourselves!!
Agree that we need rules, so no one leaks anything onto this blog.
We are going to have to have rules on this blog once the book comes out…we can’t post any spoilers on this blog until we’ve all had a chance to read it…So what, two days after it comes out and we have a chance to read it, then Laura can start a new thread for our after the swim discussion? What do you girls think?
Laura after we have time to read will you start a new thread for after the swim? Girls I can’t wait to read SN but I look so forward to our discussions. I’m guessing Team Phil will be so full after we all read the book, we can have our own yearly reunion Lol….
Good Morning Girls, would love to head to Upstate NY…When I retire seeing the US will be a treat for me. My husband tells me he’ll go anywhere I want to go as long as he is back home by dinner….Lol…He is retired military and has been all over the world, so he likes his home base…
I’m giddy for our published SN…Can’t wait to have our after the swim discussion with all you girls….
Good morning, girls!
Love upstate New York, Tara – lucky you!
I released the draft of Swimming Naked to some advance readers last night (both Phil lovers and haters). Several pulled all nighters. The reviews are incredibly positive thus far. Good news because it means very few changes! Finally reading a book for pleasure today – one of Tara’s recommendations-loving it
Definitely not Tuesday!
I’m reading Act Your Age — I’m only 20 percent in, but she is definitely a talented writer. She brings the characters to life for me. I wish I had it in Word so I could change out the word ‘daddy’ for ‘stud’ of something like that LOL.
My daughter lives and works in NYC — she’s going up to Lake Placid for the weekend for a break.I think she is going to be very cold. She is my final proof reader — great at catching typos — so she will start on it Monday and as soon as she finishes it will go final!
Daddy! LOL. Not my thing either, I just ignored it.
I love the Adirondacks. They’re expecting snow today. I hope she has a great time. If she’s ever up there in the summer or fall, There are 2 museums we love: The Adirondack Experience in Blue Mountain Lake and The Wild Center in Tupper Lake. The Wild Center has great walking paths. Both have amazing views.
Ann, I’ve been to Annapolis and after reading your and Laura’s comments I’d love to go back. I have a colleague whose sons live and work in the DC area; she and her husband took a year trying to decide where they would retire—they fell in love with Annapolis and will be moving soon.
Ann, I live fairly close to Bethel where the original Woodstock concert took place. I agree she would have fit in amazingly there, who knows maybe she was there ?. I’m not far from the actual Village of Woodstock too and she’d fit right in there today! It’s a funky little town that I love visiting. If you’re ever in the Catskills, the Museum at Bethel Woods is AMAZING. At the end of the guided tour there’s a 30 minute documentary, getting to see Santana’s performance is worth the cost of admissions. He had a 17 year old drummer that was beyond fantastic.
Girls Alice reminded me so much of my mom it was crazy…She would of been pissed at Phil, but she would of told me not to give up on him because we had to much history and children….I would of got that hug Deighj…he would of got a tongue lashing, but she would of loved Liam and pointed out all of Phil’s good qualities and loved him like she always had because he was redeemable… She wasn’t so forgiving to my first husband the second time he cheated…In fact I can remember her exact words when I told her…she said “that SOB will be lucky if he draws another breathe once he’s within arms reach.” Lol. Bring on SN, I need to see my Phil in action!
Alice was one of my favorites. She was truly a free spirit. I envision her at Woodstock with flowers in her hair, dancing around. Maybe smoking some stuff too. LOL. I know she was frustrating to Lina because she just couldn’t hate Phil for that affair. Remember she even said that Phil was a good looking and a virile man and couldn’t believe it didn’t happen sooner. I can see where Lina would be upset. Lina was always more conservative than her mom.
Phil, I miss you buddy. Bring on SN soon!!!
About Alice, I did come to like her further into the story. I just wanted her to hug Lina, emphasizing with her while pointing out that the strongest people make terrible mistakes but that didn’t mean Phil didn’t love her and their life together. I wanted empathy not sympathy.
Then I thought about my mother and the once a month trips to see her ‘advisor.’ In my late teens, at the urging of a friend, I saw an older lady who gave me a reading in her living room drinking tea. That lady let me know the path I was on was not a good one. She also gave me the name of a person in my life that was going to have a life threatening illness. That prediction came true several weeks later and I was left dumbfounded. Once I recalled that Alice reminded me of my mother I understood her character and could relate to her mindset. I do believe some people have extrasensory abilities.
The above is TMI just wanted to clarify my earlier comment about Alice.
Woke up bleary eyed this morning, took several cups before they stayed open. Thanks J.
I read Not Quite a Husband when it first came out. I don’t remember the details just that it was a good one. I’ve also read the rest of the books mentioned and enjoyed. Has anyone read Tear Stained Beaches by Courtney Giardina?
Rambling here so I’m off to make another pot of coffee. Again thanks to our lovely J.
Hi Ladies!
As far as Alice is concerned — love her or hate her she is the most authentic character in the story. She is based on my mother and that is exactly how she would react.
Update on SN – two more scenes to write, four tweaks and it’s a wrap.
Unless my beta readers hate it, it should be published next week!
Funny, I was never put off by Alice’s reaction. It fit her personality and you know she loves Phil. There’s a 25 year relationship there too. And, she believed they were destined to be together. Didn’t love Diane’s reaction. Even if she thought Lina should forgive and move on, she could have held Lina’s hand and called him a rat bastard. And, then like Adele’s eventually move into the ‘your miserable and not moving on, you might as well take him back’ phase.
I loved Alice- that’s how my mom would’ve reacted. I thought Diane could’ve been more sympathetic, but, if I had a friend in Lina’s position who wanted to stay married, I might act the same. Who knows how we would really act as any of these characters in a real-life scenario. 25-years married and with kids…not a black and white situation
Hi Tara, no probs, glad you liked it. I’ve been reading quite a lot of that general theme and thought it was one of the few where the husband was mostly redeemable! But maybe that’s cos he didn’t impregnate his mistress!
Redeemable—lol. Please don’t go there, it sets people off ?
I really liked Bree, she needed to find balance in her life, and the supporting characters were great. Did you read the sequel? It didn’t really catch my attention.
Haha yes, “redeemable” is definitely a matter of personal opinion ☺️
Yeah I thought Bree was a great character – my fave scene was when she punched her hubby in the face, which is kinda bad but I couldn’t help but internally cheer her on when she did that.
Yes read the sequel and liked it, but not as much as the first book.
Amanda Prowse’s “My Husband’s Wife” is another great read.
Hi Janet, yeah there were definitely unanswered questions in regards to the affair in “Bounce” but strangely enough I felt less anxious to know the gory details as much as I did in WPF. Not sure why that is. Maybe it’s because the husband confessed of his own violition whereas Phil only confessed because he was backed into a corner due to the pregnancy.
J I’m On my way to bed but couldn’t resist one last peek. And here I am caught up in one of my favorite places to be!
I thought you didn’t like historicals or do you like gothic historicals only? I read a lot of both but it’s more of an on/off thing with me. We’ve all been in a slump since WPF but we keep trying.
That cheating question is a hard one J. I would have to have answers to
a lot of questions that we asked on here about Phil. Why didn’t she address the issues with her husband/boyfriend and let them know the critical state of the relationship to begin with. There is no soft line with me. You have to give your last best effort and if the issues can’t be resolved then separate. Even if separated when found dating another that would constitute a betrayal if not given a heads up. Oh Lordy now I’m gonna spend hours thinking about that question. After that long ass answer the short answer is I wouldn’t betray my friend but I would avoid her significant other. Sorry J, I went overboard on my answer but I get hot about cheating.
My BIL’s first wife cheated on him, we all knew it was going on, my husband and MIL both talked to him and he didn’t believe it until the wife asked him to leave.
A friend’s brother had an affair and his wife and the OW had a subtle online Facebook fight that went on for months. If you knew the people involved you could read between the lines. It was quite weird. They’re still married and seem very happy. Proof, I guess, that you can come through cheating!
No way! I told a friend once her husband was cheating and it didn’t go over very well for me. This would be even worse. People know — they just bury their heads in the sand
I haven’t been in this situation. But I have been in the situation of knowing the husband was cheating and being friendly acquaintences with the wife. We sat together at a wedding and she was telling me how her family didn’t like her husband, and then she goes “at least he doesn’t cheat.” I wanted to die, but I just screamed at myself silently, “not my place, not my place.”
I agree, most spouses have a feeling, ang don’t want to face it.
Kayberla I agree that no one had Lina’s back except her sister. It made it difficult for me to like Alice. Her best ‘friend’ Diane wanted her to ‘get over it.’ She damn well wouldn’t be a friend of mine after that. I would have loved the same happening to Diane.
Katie I love tattoos, on other people. If done by a skilled technician they’re beautiful. Will your’s have color?
Hey J, no my address was correct, input several times. I couldn’t figure out so finally contacted Laura. I’ve been cooking and freezing dishes just to take up time and expend energy. Just finished making/freezing date balls that are so so good. Great on a hot summer day, when it finally gets here.
In the discussion about the running group, there is nothing stated in WPF other than he’d joined the group? I took it as he and Kim decided to join together. And that thought has me riled up. Again. I wonder if Megan found out that he stopped running with her so he could run with Kim? I’d love to see that scene. Realistically though both Lina and Phil would protect her from that.
I found a book of 4 novellas by Willow Winters ‘Don’t Let Go.’ Other than this book they’re no longer available. Just started the first one and it has the feeling of a Daphne du Maurier book. Good so far.
I love the back and forth between y’all. I read about Phil with Kim and I get ‘het up’ (in the older sense). Then read the replies and I’m back down again. You gals are taking me on a roller coaster ride and I’m lovin’ every bit of it. Do miss the funnel cake though.
So Deighj, you should contact laura more often so you don’t have problems. You know I depend on you! Laura never mentioned about running group. Everything here is just hypotheticals. I Love dates. so good.
Random question girls. What do you think of tattoos?
No judgment either way. My husband has sleeves. I think they’re hot on (the right) men in real life and on some book boyfriends too. Not on Laura’s heroes though.
I’m about to get one to symbolize my daughter and me. Mother-daughter mermaids.
I’m okay with tattoos. but I can totally see you with one Kbabe and mermaids are so cool. My sister is going through mid life crisis and she wants one too. She already has a tramp stamp on her back from way back when. lol
You know what I dont get? Lina’s friends and family. She has ONE person that is pissed for her. Everyone else just tells her to get over it. I would hope my friends would at least be speechless for a few minutes if I had photos of my husband with another woman. Even if they didnt volunteer to commit murder, I’d hope theyd at least be shocked.
Hi Kayberla, I think Diane was projecting her feelings and her views onto Lina. She came off to me as a person who has never worked and is financially dependent on her husband. Isn’t she also a generation older than Lina? Diane’s life revolves around her family and Lina is part of it. She didn’t want her family broken up. I think if Diane’s husband ever cheated on her, she would forgive. What do you think?
What can I say about Alice other than she is Alice.
I didnt think Diane was that much older. Maybe a decade? Or maybe I made that up in my head. I kid you not, my sister would be at my house with a shovel and a handful of people to be my alibi, in a heart beat if something like this happened. I just cant get over how there wasnt even a pause for shock. It was like no one wanted to admit it had happened. And they wanted her to ignore it too. It’s not like it was a one night stand. Theres a freaking baby coming!
Ladies, “Bounce” by KM Jackson is a great read on the cheating spouse theme. Really liked the wife in this book and it felt realistic. And yes, it does have a HEA eventually.
Eagerly awaiting your news on the SN release Laura!!!
The things that piss me off about Phil’s behavior with Kim:
1. He continued in the Baltimore running group with Kim rather than run with his daughter Megan at home. Emily thought Kim and Phil were an item! So, they must have put off some vibes in front of Emily.
2. He was so caught up in the sex that he trusted her being on the pill, when he should have worn the condom! End of story.
3. Steamboat vacation house.
4. Affair continued for 4 months.
I truly know that Phil loves Lina, but it’s hard to forgive him with Kim. However, Lina has forgiven him, so I guess I should too.
I’m kind of staying mum on todays discussion, I think I voiced enough opinions last week ?.
But, I will expand on your #4 not only did it go on for 4 months, he rearranged his life to do it—it wasn’t unplanned quickies! And yuck to #2, did sexually transmitted diseases never enter his thoughts!
Tara, I always go back and forth on Phil. I see both sides. I still get fired up when I think of what he did, but I do see his vulnerable side. I think we will be satisfied with him in SN. He was always very good to Lina throughout their 25 years and then he slipped up. I think he deserves a second chance as much as I get pissed off at him.
You don’t think Kim was as picky about her lovers? She thinks so highly of herself. I actually think the no condom is very much in line with Phil’s selfish character. I’m pretty sure she got tested or lied to Phil about it and said why do we need this Phil when you hate it and I’m clean. Look at the results. I’m clean and I’m on the pill. Yuck!
Upon further discussion I do think Phil joined the training / running group as an outlet to let off steam without Megan giving him unwanted advice or tattle telling about Katie. After the night with Kim, she became the true outlet and she joined Phil in this group. I do think they may have had quickies before or after running though because he was doing it every single day. It was convenient and the animal did it. Also, Phil wasn’t smiling at Kim for manners. He was caught unawares in the picture and he looked at Kim with lust. That wasn’t autopilot. I don’t want to minimize his transgressions.
I agree with Rebecca’s assessment of Phil. I think he was on autopilot. Like driving home and not remembering the drive. Even people smile at funerals- doesn’t mean they’re happy. I don’t think he was happy, but Kim was stroking his ego and allowing him to blow off some steam, so I’m sure he appreciated her in some way. Not possessive. I’m thinking the guilt started once Lina knew of the affair- Like when Nick’s gf showed up and the running group came up.
Deighj! How come your computer keeps on glitching? Are you putting in the wrong email address? I sometimes do this and my post disappears? Thank God Laura was able to help. Please check in often! You know I look forward to your daily wicked sense of wisdom.
Hi Rebecca. Those are some heavy questions. I don’t think any of us has asked Laura directly if Phil was happy during the affair. I don’t think Phil was happy because of Kim but I do think he did have happy moments with her like we saw in the pictures. Remember his grin as he danced with her and the bar scene where they wore black street clothes and he was grabbing her thigh? I imagined Lina having an argument with Katie that same night while Phil and Kim were at the bar and having to take one of her sleeping pills to go to sleep. It made me so mad!
Laura told us Phil felt guilty but he was able to comparmemtalize this feeling like most men do.
Do you think Phil felt possessive of Kim during the affair? Even if she was just a side piece like Katie said?
Laura did say once that he wouldn’t hate Kim if she wasn’t an evil person. Taking the evil out of this equation would have made WPF a bit simpler.
Thinking of him being possessive of Kim makes my heart hurt. I don’t think he would be (even prior to her being evil). I think Phil is only truly possessive of people he loves. With that said we’ve been told during the affair he liked and respected her so I think he would be slightly caring and concerned for her if anything happened like he would be for anyone he was friends with but I don’t think it rose to the level of possessive.
I ask about possessive because Phil isn’t a guy who likes to share even his toys. In that book goalie, the guy shared the groupies with other players but I just can’t see Phil being ok with that.
I can definitely see your point. I have a hard time understanding Phil so I may be way off base.
I think that if Kim was flirting or getting physical with someone else it would have actually just ended the affair as it would have disgusted him. But I don’t think it would have enraged him like the thought of sharing Lina.
However, to your point about him not liking to share. I think that would depend on whether or not he ever considered Kim his. I hope the answer to that is he never did so he would never get possessive.
Me thinks you understand Phil pretty darn well. You are absolutely right. He never thought Kim was his and I love your answer that if Kim flirted with a guy he would have been disgusted. So Phil. You have him pegged. Can’t wait to share thoughts with you after we read SN.
Phil would not have been possessive of Kim…She wouldn’t have been with anyone else because she was mesmerized by Phil. Now Lina is a whole different story. I would say Phil was content during the affair because Kim put him back on a pedestal that Lina no longer had him on…
I had a thought this morning of a question I wasn’t sure had been asked/answered. It seems well established from what Laura has said that Phil entered into/continued the purely sexual affair as a distraction and as something he could control when things were out of control/unhappy at home. So clearly being with Kim distracted him. My question is did she make him happy (or at least what he deemed happy) during the time of the affair? In my mind something can easily distract you but not make you happy.
Additionally (and this may have been already asked) did Phil feel guilt during the affair? Maybe not during the act but when he came home to Lina. I know he felt guilt after he told her and likely when he came back to her at the beginning of WPF, but what about before that when he was still entrenched in the affair? I mean it was obviously not enough to stop but I would hope he felt at least some.
Hey Deighj—Saving Grace—in the epilogue the diagnosis doesn’t change, but she’s still alive and going through treatment. It’s such a brutal story, but so worth reading.
Deighj I’ve missed you sugar pop! Glad all is well with you…we’ve talked about the pregnancy before, and we all believe she got pregnant on purpose and after she told Phil she wasn’t always good about taking her pill he probably thought the same…Kim’s such a biotch!
It’s been awhile ladies. I’ve been unable to post for several days, got an error message each time. Thanks ever so much for your help Laura.
I have been reading your posts but feeling so left out.
I do have a question about Kim’s pregnancy, did she deliberately get pregnant, did I miss a comment from Laura, will this issue come up in SN?
Trace happy to hear you’re doing so well. A half mile, wow that’s about what I walk in an entire day.
Tara I posted on the 5th about your booklist, I’ve read all of them but can’t remember if the wife’s health prognosis changed in Saving Grace. Gosh I hope so. Thanks for the GR’s thread, looked every book up on there including ones already read. There is also a good cheating thread on Amazon that I wrote down and lost. Don’t know how to find as I originally picked up in reading a review. If anyone finds that thread please post it.
J love that HELL NO comment about Nick. That’s my little firecracker.
Ann, Laura, Phil and Logan, so sorry about the Ravens. I’ve only gone to one football game and after identifying which team was on either end I got lost because they kept switching ends. Yep I know all about football LOL.
Tracie, there is nothing wrong with having Phil help you concentrate. That scene you just mentioned is so sweet.
Glad you are doing so much better Tracie.
Thank you Carrie…Did balancing exercises today and I rocked…just saying ?
Girls I’ve concluded I’m a sick individual… I had to balance myself on this big sponge today and close my eyes for a minute, the therapist said concentrate on something soooo, I envisioned Phil leaning in the doorway of his and Lina’s bedroom, still in his slack pants and dress shirt rolled up to his elbows watching Lina and Liam sleeping on the bed together…His thoughts on how very much he loved her…I could of went further but I only had to do it for a minute…Lol
I watched part of the Globes. I like Lady Gaga’s natural look from A Star is Born better but she is still pretty. Sandra Oh’s parents were cute.
Katie I’m now hoping the Chargers win. I can’t stand Brady.
I just reread Stinger by Mia Sheridan. I’m in a funk with new stuff right now.
Wow!! Year around swim team at age 4 is awesome and impressive. My kids take year round swim lessons too but I stopped after thanksgiving. It is so windy now.
Are you guys watching the globes? Lady Gaga looks so pretty!
She can start a pre-comp team next year if she wants. She’s a bit free-spirited- Not sure if team sports will be her thing, but she loves to swim and likes to go, rain or shine.
I’m in a reading rut. Having a hard time finishing them.
My husband’s team won today. Sorry Ann and Laura. ?
Went swimming all afternoon with my daughter. It’s cold and rainy. We are trying to toughen her up for year-round swim team and surfing- that means I suffer too. It was cold!
I like Ann’s scenario. Sweet. And Tracie is right about dessert.
Tom Brady is a pretty boy. Yuck.
I could get on top of coach Mike Vrabel though.
I’m sure Phil and Logan came home from the game upset because of the Ravens lost. Lina had dinner waiting for them to get home and Matt and Katie were at the house too watching the game. Megan is home from school and she’s there or maybe she went to the game with Logan and Phil. Liam is with his evil mother that weekend. The Hunters have a nice family dinner together.
Omg Joan Collins? Did you ever watch Dynasty? She was so bitchy. How old do you think she is? Lol
I’m sure Phil would have been at that Ravens playoff game with Logan!
I only mention her because I thought she was dead. I looked her up. think she’s 85. 85 wearing head to toe black leather. Wow. I guess that’s pretty hot. I watched a bit of dynasty. I liked Linda Evans back then.
I’m immature for my age Ann but he looks like a little rat! Sorry Tom lovers.
I can’t believe you are walking half a mile already. That’s terrific! You went through so much to get here. You can lie down to read SN. Ha
I saw Joan Collins today. I’m pretty sure it was her. She was wearing leather pants. Omg. I thought she was dead. I’m like how old is this lady and how is she alive?
Jesus the Ravens are making me nervous! We’re over our friends house watching the game. I’m going to hit up the wine soon! Go Ravens!!
Can’t wait for SN! Love the Hunters!!
Thanks guys for pulling for the Ravens!
Hope you guys win! Just finished A Place Without You talk about a tear jerker. The H and h spent a lot of time a part finding themselves…wore me out at times.
OK. I’ll give it a try. Thanks Tracie. I started Leaving Haven by Kathleen McCleary.
I remember Janet, that’s why I thought Kim could be in some kind of fraud/illegal dealings that would cause her to lose Liam. Her new man maybe not on the total up and up? That’s realistic that shit happens all the time.
Ok. Thank you both. I was going to the dark side again thinking of
Kim’s laugh. Also, Tracie I thought of something. Remember when we were discussing Kim’s sex life without Phil for two years and Laura said “interesting” when we said no way she’s going without. What if there is a guy… I don’t think it’s unrealistic that Kim turns away from Liam. There are absentee moms everywhere. She will hurt Liam in the process but doesn’t that align with Kim’s character? Ah hah! Selfish Witch needs lavish lifestyle and her need for Phil was Kim’s period of temporary insanity.
I’m going to say No! He is going to look like a cross between Phil and Logan….He is going to have all Hunter features….Remember Kim is just a vessel! She’ll accept it, because Lina knows fully loving Phil, means loving Liam….
Phil would never grovel! Now he would be humbled not only by his actions, but by how much Lina actually loves him..That’s why I wanted to see in SN where Phil watches Lina without her knowledge while she is taking care of Liam and Phil oozing love from every pore of his body for her…
I like that word. He would be humbled seeing exactly that. That will be a heart wrenching scene. I wonder if Liam shares any physical similarities with Kim…lord how can she get over it
I have a question too. Grovel or not to grovel? Do we need the words or are the actions good enough? Lot of readers here want to see Phil groveling and Laura said probably not. Knowing Phil’s character, is it authentic of him to do this? Personally seeing him scared shitless when he thinks of losing Lina is enough for me. Being vulnerable in SN? Holy moly I cannot wait.
I honestly dont think a grovel would feel genuine from Phil. And what could his words possibly mean at this point? I want to see his actions always putting his family above everything and giving Lina the reassurance she needs and the space to work through when the betrayal breaks through her resolve to be forgiving. I want him to be thankful but not someone different. That’s not who Lina fell in love with.
So true. Yay! Kay, did you read the dream snippet? It was so much better than groveling. and phil saying more than “baby please” with a piercing stare can easily be a cliche no?
Laura, do we get to see Phil in court like Tony?
Also, when did Phil propose to Lina? After college?
Tracie, no!! No 2 miles. Can you live 2 miles away from Kim? Even if she stops causing trouble she’s done too much damage for anyone in the novel to be immune to her. Doesn’t redemption go hand in hand with justice? Unless Kim shows remorse which it doesn’t seem likely at this point I say she walks away from
Liam and Phil. Imagine bumping into her at the car wash or the grocery store over and over again throughout the years. She moved to MD for Phil. I say she goes back to NYC. Trump towers are there. Ritz and glitter suits her.
I think we all have our own idea of what Phil looks like and even sounds like; however Katie has a good eye and does us all a great service by bringing those thoughts to life.through pictures…Thank you Kbabe….
Omg! Sweet baby Jesus! Now that’s my version of Phil. Always has been! Thanks Katie!!
Tara, every book you have mentioned I have read with the exception of Emma Darcy. Right after I read WPF last January I got on this kick about cheating husbands and family drama. I just read everything that came up related to WPF. I love The Harlequin books. I started with them years ago and some are timeless. Thanks for the list.
Those are pretty good lists. Standouts for me were The Unwanted Wife, Frayed Silk and The Golden Dynasty. Though that last one is a fantasy and lots of people have issues with some of the beginning content. Kristen Ashley writes heroes I just want to gobble up.
People rarely want to read about cheating wives, but for family drama, True, by Gwendolyn Grace stuck with me.
The Unwanted Wife is wonderful. I’ve read Frayed Silk and True. Though I’ve read a ton of KA books, I have not read her fantasy books.
I like to pick through the lists and find new books. There’s a “cheaters” list with over 400 books and a good chunk are cheating heroines.
I’m so sorry but he looks like a goon there. Again sorry! Big hairy buffoony goon. I like guys who are a bit more refined and don’t have a bulbous nose. Hey, one less woman to fight over Phil. I don’t like pork/ham! Laura you can delete this comment if you like!
Also Jon looks more like a football player than a lacrosse player. I’ve been to many lax games in school and they are not as beefy as Jon. Yuck! Just give me a navy seals model can you?
LOL J-Girl is never going to go for the big and lush…Laura we have a problem cracked me up….I could get all over those two pics, especially after what our google search uncovered Lol….
Phil is leaner than Jon — triathletes are cut, but I still like him.
No problem. I’ll just imagine a guy with more hawkish features not a young Walter Matthau. Omg
You mean the google search YOU uncovered and I cannot unsee that. I know Laura told us just in looks but I’ve seen jon in interviews and he’s just so happy. Phil is darker no? Just let him be. I’m the minority
I’ll take credit for that Salt…because it was freaking awesome! Being the minority is what makes you unique and I love it!
Janet — Phil definitely doesn’t have Jon Hamm’s personality. He isn’t nearly as jolly!
So, J, you’re honestly saying his face repulses you so much that you wouldn’t sit on it, if given the opportunity?
Lord! The things you say! I feel violated. Lolol. Not repulse. Just not for me in looks only. Maybe for younger guy Tom hardy in looks. Or Keanu. Again looks only.
I know. It made me feel old and nostalgic talking about these authors. But hey, we now have our new favorite author in common and she is bridging all our age gaps. So cool!
I cut my romance reading teeth on Harlequins and old Barbara Cartland—OMG I’m dating myself. My grandmother lived with us and these books were all over our house when I was little.
Lol! Yes!! Barbara Cartland. I learned English reading her and hardy boys at the same time. I don’t know why. I’ve read everything Michelle Reid has published at the time it was published but my all time favorite is Anne Stuart. Man I adored her. She did gothic romance like no other. Lord. This is a total trip down memory lane..
Lol. I know! Totally. You feared and shivered from lust at the same time. And they are mean! It is so not PC and I loved every magical word she wrote. I wish her well. I named my daughter after her first novel and it wasn’t even a good book. But I wanted to pay tribute to Ms Stuart and really my love for books.
Gonna sign off now. My said daughter has another model UN tomorrow and I need to help her on the country she chose. Nigeria. Back to real life. I have a topic we can discuss tomorrow.
Tara, is there a novel with a cheating theme where you thought the Hero fully redeemed himself? I only started seeking them out after WPF. I was never really invested before. I will go look at The Divorce Party now.
Janet, here are 3 very different books that work for me:
1. A Perfect Marriage by Laurey Bright. It’s on old Silhouette and is very dated. At times I think the heroine is a bit of a doormat. I think it was Deighj that called the hero honorable. And I guess that’s true on some level.
2. The Ultimate Betrayal by Michelle Reid. It’s an old Harlequin Presents and what works for me is her cycle through the grieving period. Her grief really drives the story. There’s a 7 year age gap in this story and some might be put off by the fact their relationship starts when she’s 17.
3. Saving Grace by AD Justice. This one I won’t describe, it’s too easy to give away parts of the story. Real tear jerker.
I also like The Desparate Wife. I know a lot of people have issues with the emotional cheating, the falling in love with another woman. In most cases the men haven’t fallen in love, they’ve fallen in lust and are willing to walk away for it. I like a story where they have the moment of clarity and realize they’ve screwed up and want their families back.
Theres another old Harlequin Presents that I like Marriage Meltdown by Emma Darcy. It doesn’t deal with actual cheating. He’s on the verge of something with his assistant and his wife is very in tune with situation. There’s a great confrontation scene in his office. Not a perfect story but has some great scenes.
And having said that about great scenes, I think that’s why all of these books work for me. The books aren’t perfect, but there are snippets and scenes that hit the right note.
Yikes, which one hits the redemption thing… A Perfect Marriage. The book is clearly set in 3 parts. The first part he’s trying to get her attention, something isn’t working in their lives, but life gets in the way. The second part is his leaving and the devastation she’s dealing with. And part three is his redemption, he wants their life back. He works for it.
I think the other books have perfect moments and perfect scenes.
Thank you! I will re read Michelle Reid tonight. I loved that book. Have you read true love story by willow aster? I loved that one as well. But just a forewarning, Ian is not a Phil.
I love Michelle Reid, she’s like a guilty pleasure. Have you read The Bellini Bride and The Mistress Bride? Both are so good!
I have read True Love Story, but it didn’t stick with me.
Ok I’ve read them except for Emma Darcy. I grew up loving Michelle Reid and Emma Darcy so I’m a fan of both. I think I’m going to pick up one of these tonight sans cover(I ripped all of them out so my mom can’t see me reading a romance novel). I need these simpler emotional tuggers tonight! Year after year, move after move I just can’t give them up.
I liked The Woman He Marries by Julie N Ford. I felt like the ending was believable and not too neatly wrapped up. Alcoholism played a part in the destruction of their relationship and it felt very genuine.
I’ve read this a couple of times. I didn’t like the political backdrop. There was something that didn’t ring true, but I did like the relationship issues and resolution, not 100% sure he wouldn’t cheat again, but did love his first attempt at carpooling the kids around and the scene at the dance lesson was funny and relatable.
I’m like why didn’t Tracie defend Nick’s honor? I got home to trash talking Nick? Hell no. I really really get the fascination with Phil. He IS after all the HERO of two books. Nick is a supporting character. By rule, he cannot outshine Phil even in assholeness. But to categorize him as a player? How so? No way is he a womanizer.
Omg you all are batshit crazy if you are calling Nick a tool! What in the world is going on here? Yes maybe both Phil and Nick need a refresher course in ethics in med/law school but just because he doesn’t growl he’s not an alpha?
Tara, it doesn’t sound like you would forgive an affair…
LOL. yes, why am I defending him? I think Tara is too hard on Phil but I think she enjoys playing with our hearts. haha She knows Phil will be redeemed in her eyes. Tara, are we playing what if it happened to us scenario?
I am hard on him because I know he can be a better person! As can Lina and Megan and Katie. I love Logan (he reminds me so much of my son).
I totally want Phil to get his head out of his … and be fully redeemed.
I like cheating stories because they completely breakdown a relationship and rebuild it, when it’s done right it brings you through every emotion imaginable. I love when a strong man says and proves he’s truly sorry—I think you need both words and actions.
What if?? Who knows real life is never tied up in a neat little bow like a book can be.
Tara you just laid out the reasons exactly why I like cheating stories. If no redemption or HEA I don’t read the book. The only exception to that rule would be if one or the other was shown as truly awful or degrading toward their significant other. Hope that makes sense.
Obviously, a Nick’s not my thing, I’m married to a Phil. ?
There’s something about Nick that crossed a line for me, I think he played her, and had a girlfriend waiting in the wings. Lina’s a train wreck, all over the place. In love with and yet devastated by her husband and attracted to the man she perceives saved her daughter. He knew this, yuck!
I can’t say I wouldn’t forgive an affair. I doubt I could forgive what Phil did. I guess it would depend on the situation. I think forgiveness is much easier to give than it is to trust again. It’s the lack of trust that will kill the relationship.
Having said that, I can’t say my hubby wouldn’t find everything he owns floating down the river behind our house, before I’d even consider forgiving.
I have to rethink this. I saw Nick like Phil did… the ethical issue with being Katie’s doctor and I hate to admit I love the scene where Phil makes the snide comment to Nick’s girlfriend.
omg I thought it was the hottest thing in the novel! I was so happy my fingers tingled when Nick put Phil in his place. bahaha. Martial arts is hot Kbabe. You know Nick rides motorcycles…in my mind.
Back to beating the dead horse of the Baltimore running group. I submit that Phil joined that group (and stopped running with his Megan) to be with Kim. She didn’t join because of him. He joined the running group “a few months back” it says in the first chapter. All in the Kim timeline. Can’t wait to hear the explanation for that.
Did it strike anyone else as somewhat odd that neither of the daughters were particularly empathetic to Lina over the affair. Of course, Megan is Daddy’s girl and Katie is all about Katie in typical adolescent fashion. Thank goodness for Logan, and even that may have been more about his disillusionment with his father more than anything else.
Wasn’t the Steamboat trip the same week as when he didn’t have time to go to Florida with the family? However else could he find the time to go there with Kim? And the thing with the pink tie from Neiman Marcus–obviously a gift from Kim. But why in the world would he actually wear it AND bring it home?
And finally, he is supposed to be a highly intelligent man. Did he not perceive anything about Kim’s true nature (her narcissism, her sense of entitlement as it concerns Phil, her lack of regret at hurting others)?
Have any of you read The Divorce Party by Laura David? Very interesting take on the consequences of infidelity.
1. He joined the group to be with Kim… yuck, doesn’t that turn your stomach. I hope there’s a better explanation for that.
2. I found Megan very frustrating. Very much like Phil, fully believing she was always right and I’m hoping she’s not as narcissistic as she appears. Katie’s a curious being. You’re right she’s very much a typical teenager and it seems she spent a lot of time in her own head prior to the start of the story. I love Logan, he’s a good boy that loves his mom.
3. Thinking about Steamboat is maddening and the tie, really why would he have taken a gift from Kim, especially something he would have made a snide comment to Lina about—do real men wear pink?
4. I don’t think he really saw Kim as anything other than a convenience. She was pretty and willing—I doubt he cared about anything else.
5. I’ll look for The Divorce Party at the library, $12 is a little steep for an author I haven’t read.
As far as the tie is concerned. Phil didn’t think. Twenty years ago he told Lina ‘real men don’t wear pink’. His mistress gave him a tie — he never thought twice about it until Lina mentioned it. Suddenly his two worlds collided. The rest is history.
Regarding SB, it was not the same time as FL as we assumed.
Ladies, I’m married to Phil.
My husband’s personality is completely in line with Phil’s. Completely. And, guess what an alpha can learn to talk and an alpha can learn to apologize and even grovel.
So, yes, I expect more from Phil.
We may at times communicate at the top of our lungs, but we get through everything. We live, we love and we laugh everyday together. He’s the only person that can make me mad enough to curse and he can make me laugh like no one else can.
That’s not true, it’s not a matter of him backing down, it’s about me being as strong as he is—and then both of us learning to compromise within the relationship. It’s not easy, he’s not big on compromising and I don’t get an apology every time my feelings are hurt.
I spent a lot of years asking “is this the hill you want to die on?” Believe me he spent a lot of time stewing over the answer to that question. He’s learned our relationship is worth fighting for.
you know why the betrayal hit us so hard? Because Lina is Phil’s world and we can’t believe he could do this to her. In the past, whatever Lina wanted Phil provided for her. There are multiple examples of this in WPF and I’m not just talking about the house, kids, and the puppy he had to take back. Also, Phil isn’t married to you Tara so he never had to learn and stew over things. Most likely Lina let him lead in this department as head of the family. I’m not defending Phil’s behavior but your husband had years of practice while Phil didn’t.
I understand Lina as much as I understand Phil. It’s very easy to let an alpha be in charge, they’re personality’s are so big. When Lina’s world implodes, she needs to find herself. There’s nothing wrong with her following her path back to Phil. As a reader that’s where I hoped the story went. But, I was willing to follow where Laura took us.
yup. you wanna play with my heart. Thank god we agree.
Tara, he rectified the affair by ending it and re-devoting himself to his family.
Laura wrote the perfect alpha. When they are wrong, guilty or hurting, they are assholes, they sulk, throw tantrums. An alpha doesn’t beg at a woman’s feet and grovel. Even his “get over it” attitude is very typical of an alpha, because he doesn’t want to face and rehash what he has done.
How would you have wanted Phil to behave?
Exactly. He knows he is responsible for the disaster that is his marriage and he doesnt lnow how to handle it. Hes always gotten it right, but now hes destroyed everything and he doesnt know how to fix it. Especially with Kim charging in and setting him back repeatedly. He wants to make it better but he knows he cant, and he sometimes reacts very poorly because of it. Lashing out at those around him when what he really wants to do is kick his own ass.
And that’s exactly why an alpha needs to be taught how to communicate. Because yes, they will internalize everything until it explodes out. When you’re married to an alpha you have to be willing to stand your ground and fight toe to toe. And, when you do this they will talk, it might be like pulling teeth, when they’re wrong they can apologize and when they’re really wrong they can grovel.
He’s going to rectify the affair in SN, this the reasoning for the sequel. But in WPF he never stopped supporting or loving Lina and it really doesn’t matter how we feel about Phil, if Lina wants to forgive her husband then more power to her….Yes he was pissy about another man doing his wife, because he knew Nick’s feelings toward Lina were emotional. He knew where he stood with Kim and that was no feelings at all. He didn’t want to lose his wife and how many times did he tell Lina, I will spend the rest of my life making it up to you….Phil is Phil and he grows in SN, take him or leave him…I’m taking him…#TeamPhil
I agree Tracie. I do love Phil. I just get fired up about him still! I personally thought Nick was too perfect. Sure he was a great guy and handsome but with Phil you get so many emotions. He’s an asshole one minute and then the nicest sweetest guy.
Nick was a tool. He crossed so many lines. Kept telling her she wasn’t in a position for another relationship but then pushing his erection into her and asking her back to the boathouse. He had a gf when he told Lina he loved her for Christ’s sake. Fuck that guy.
That’s how I really feel.
Totally agree with you and I totally agreed with Phil when he said he was unprofessional and at that point needed to stop treating Katie. He’s a player and a user. If Lina were his wife, he wouldn’t cheat on her? Really, Lina bought that?
It’s funny, there were many points in the book where I wanted to throw my iPad and almost all of them were between Lina and Nick. I almost stopped reading the book when she went to Nick after finding the pictures. Such a stupid thing to do. Not that I had any sympathy for Phil at that point.
Ok, so what did he do to rectify his affair? Acted like you would expect a “loving” husband to behave?
His ego was stung, really? He has a sexual relationship with another woman that resulted in a child and he’s pissy that his wife may be sleeping with another man, after they’re legally separated, something he chose to do—assuming it was something she wanted. Once again assuming he knows best.
I would never justify Lina’s relationship with Nick, but he seems to hold her to a higher standard than he was willing to live by.
I always felt Lina’s attraction for Nick started as almost hero worship as he helped Katie. Would her attraction to him have grown if she and Phil were on the same page about Katie’s treatment?
Well he does hold her to higher standard in my opinion because he thinks she’s the better half. If Lina put Phil on a pedestal then so did Phil with Lina. He’s her protector but she’s the nurturer. They balance each other’s out. Puhleese. If you were married to Phil you would be in jail next to me.
Girls, we all are imperfect, if not we would be Jesus. He was the only perfect being…Phil had an affair he owns it and going to do everything in his power to rectify it…Tell me how many men in this day and time would do that, not many…The Thanksgiving scene was when Phil thought Lina was sleeping with Nick..She did choose Nick over Phil and his ego was stung! So he treated Lina indifferent. Until after chapter 43 when he slept with Lina and he knew then that she wasn’t sleeping with Nick and there was hope to get his wife back, but it had to be Lina’s choice. Lina even said in WPF she couldn’t live in the style she was accustomed too if not for Phil’s support, which he always provided. Chapter 24, Lina damn near killed herself in the hot tub because she couldn’t see Nick if she stayed with Phil. Lina was struggling with her loyalty to Phil as well…
Ok let’s not make him a bigger man than he is though. Truth be told, he is trying to rectify his mistakes because he wants Lina back. He knows he belongs with only Lina and can only be happy with her. He is not doing this for the sake of his children or because he’s a better man than Nick or another schemo. I can see lots of men doing what Phil did if they want their wives back. In most cases they don’t. They want the young hot mistress. Yes Phil is a good man and when it comes to Lina he can make sacrifices but frankly he also has that cocky immature jock syndrome going for him.
Laura, I do have a question regarding SN. I know the prologue is about Liam coming to the Hunter household and meeting Lina for the first time and Lina just can’t handle it. You said after the prologue the book goes back seven months to where WPF left off. My question is this, which part of the book does this first meeting of Lina and Liam take place?
I love Phil but he is hypocritical. He holds everyone else in the family to this high standard. At first he didn’t care for Matt because he wasn’t going to college and had tattoos. He can’t stand Drew for abandoning his family (which I agree). He doesn’t like Julian because of the way he treats Shilo. However, Phil carries on an affair and is so careless he gets Kim pregnant. Come on. I go back and forth on Phil even though I forgive him.
I understand alpha assholes. I’ve been married to one for 35 years. It’s an interesting household—2 type A personalities, neither of us backdown over anything.
But, having said that we’re good communicators and that’s what seems to be lacking between Phil and Lina.
Ann but as Katie pointed out to Logan in Chapter 32 the affair made him flawed he is no longer perfect nor can he hold them to that standard anymore. She was actually relieved he fell from grace. Chapter 47 he admits to Lina that he’s not perfect, but he still feels he’s the man she’s suppose to grow old with…..
I’m a person of faith. I’m not so much into organized religion, but that’s a debate for a different blog. You’re right, a religious upbringing sticks with you.
Do we hold Phil to a higher standard because he’s Catholic?
Phil shouldn’t have cheated, because he’s Catholic. Phil shouldn’t have wanted Kim to abort, because he’s Catholic. Phil should take responsibility for his kid, because he’s Catholic.
And, if we are going to hold Phil to a higher standard because he’s Catholic, then shouldn’t we, people of faith, hold ourselves to a higher standard in trying to understand and forgive him?
With that being said, I think it’s better to leave religion out of it. No man should cheat, regardless of age, race, religion, etc…because good men shouldn’t cheat. No man should abandon his child either- good men don’t do that. It’s not a religion issue.
Where was religion when Phil was cheating? Obviously not with him.
I don’t think he should be held to a higher standard because he’s Catholic. What he did was wrong no matter his faith, or lack there of. As people of faith we should forgive him, or be accepting of Lina’s forgiveness.
The abortion thing, I’ve thought about this. He was in panic mode, his world was crumbling around him. I hope what he said he wanted her to do wasn’t truly in his heart. I firmly believe if she’d had the abortion, he would have lived with the guilt.
I agree his faith was not with him when he was cheating. This is why I said it was really Laura’s question to answer—how strong is his faith?
Hey Ladies. Do you remember what Laura said about those Steamboat pictures? She said by the time Lina and Phil got back together and Lina asked Phil about the pictures because she wanted closure, Phil was reluctant to discuss them. She then said Lina was already desensitized about the pictures so it wasn’t as hard for her to get into the discussion than for Phil. I think Phil felt so much guilt and he knew he fucked up big time! Poor Phil.
Hey ladies. My hubby and I went to the movies this afternoon and dinner. Went to see Vice. I liked it. I thought Christian Bale was excellent as Dick Cheney. I’m guessing you young bloggers don’t remember much about the Bush/Cheney years! LOL
You will be able too, if Jordan did…your two run on the same thought track. I don’t guess Phil actually looked at those pictures in WPF…I can’t wait to read that scene…Laura did comment that Phil kind of beats himself up after that scene. I guess the hurt the pictures caused Lina got to him too…Phil never meant for her to be touched by any of that crap with Kim….Everything Kim did to Lina should show Phil she had a backup plan if he didn’t fall for her…I wonder if in SN Lina tells Phil in the dance picture that she thought that look was only for her! Lina said that in WPF.
I was thinking the same about the dancing picture! Whether Lina confronts him about the look. Lina didn’t want to know the details in WPF. Gosh I would wake Phil up every 30 min to bug him on these missing details. He better not have paid for her airline tix. I will scream. ?
Honestly, you ladies don’t want me to think horribly of him (notice I’m not calling him a villain ?) but your talking about Steamboat.
I just went back and did a Kindle search of “Steamboat”, he never denies taking her there. How could he do that? How could he possibly explain that? OMG—I’m aggravated all over again.
So reading the Steamboat search scenes brought me to the leaf blowing after Thanksgiving scene. He’s all pissy that Thanksgiving sucked. Hello, did he forget his affair? He’s sorry so she should just accept it and move forward. She spends Thanksgiving alone (I know by choice) and he feels it’s a good time to share Megan wants to live with him—I don’t know how anyone defends his behavior.
I don’t defend his behavior Tara. But this is also Phil’s personality. He’s as alpha as they come and at the time he was mad at Lina remember? But deep down he’s mad at himself for putting himself where he is and distancing himself from Lina is the only way he can cope being next to her. My one big complaint is there was very minimal communication between these two. Every time he wanted to say something Lina cut him off because she couldn’t handle the truth or Phil would shut down and refuse to answer her questions. The steamboat was neither denied or confirmed. Lina cut Phil off mid sentence! And if they went together it may have been work related because how do you travel with your mistress without paying for her fare?
How close are you on finishing the condo? Yes remember Katie didn’t want to go to church, Phil told them to go light a candle for Shiloh…SB is just another line crossed and Phil will have to live with those consequences, but Lina is still a little bitter too, however a condo isn’t worth giving Phil up for and another Condo can be bought and more memories made somewhere else.
Lord I wish I could compartmentalize it that way too. I go back and forth every time this subject is raised. Lina is at peace with the info but I am not ther yet. I’m hoping I can let Phil off the hook after his explaination.
My condo I’m hoping end of this month? The leaks are really putting us behind. We had to basically gut the place after finding abestos.
Good afternoon girls, I had a swooney thought…Lina takes Phil back on a Sunday! You think it is hard for Phil to leave Lina on Monday to go to work? I hope he is kissing her all the way to the car….
Hi Tracie! What happened to Deighj? Don’t you think Phil took a couple days off after shiloh’s accident? You remembered Phil came home on a Sunday or did you read the ending again? Man you have a good memory. I’ve been stuck thinking about the steamboat picture again. I think I can forgive Phil for the 3 pictures but if he took Kim to SB voluntarily I will be so mad at him. I know we discussed this one to death but he did tell Lina he had to work during the spring break. Phil didn’t take Kim there during the break but it may be woreek related? Just thinking out loud today. TGIF guys!
Just to push you a bit Kbabe, I believe Phil’s faith and humanity go hand in hand so to me his religion does have something to do with him not abandoning Liam. Being catholic to Phil is part of who he is. Why do we need to separate the two? What do you think Tara?
That’s fine.
Would you believe I went to a parochial school until HS? I’m
not opposed to that line of thinking.
I just don’t think religion and being a good person/doing the right thing are necessarily linked.
Was Phil still going to church during the affair? I’ve always thought WPF was a good example of the hypocrisy of religion. The dude goes to church every Sunday but has a side piece. What a joke.
I asked Laura once but she misunderstood my question. Laura said yes but she was talking about when Phil and Lina were separated. My guess is no he wasn’t attending church during his temporary insanity. You better not let Kim hear you. Side piece. Lol
Yes, I’m sure he was going to church with his family. That would be odd to suddenly stop. I was raised Catholic. We never missed a Sunday. It doesn’t mean he was listening — and they don’t preach fidelity each week.
*cough cough* vag warts *cough*
You know I’m always trying to impress you with my lingo.
I hope she does! I hope it haunts her and she can’t have anymore children because of the flare ups! Hate people like her. She thinks she’s above the law.
Good question…
To honest, as much as Phil’s behavior annoys the heck out of me, I don’t think he’d abandon his child. I can’t imagine him not taking care of Liam, and he certainly wouldn’t abandon him to be raised by Kim.
His faith might be tied up in that, but I think that’s a Laura question. It really depends on how deep his faith. We can go to church every Sunday and not have a deep faith.
I think for people of faith their religion is ingrained in their personality. I don’t see everything through a lense of my faith, but it’s always there.
Kayberla you are right about him being hot, but I would never consider him a mess…He’s redeemable in my eyes because even though he left destruction in his path, he cares and loves Lina enough to go back and rebuild what he damaged…He tells Logan in Chapter 38, I’m living with the consequences of my actions…he knows what he did and he’ll do whatever it takes to rectify it in SN…
I just started the Goalie. this guy Santos is a real manwhore. He screws women after his games just to calm himself down. No real problems in his life that would warrant him to cheat on his wife. I’m about a third way through the book.
Janet—I’m a quarter through Jane Porter’s The Good Wife. At this point Sarah isn’t remotely likable, Boone’s not really part of the story yet, and I’m not sure I can finish this.
Skim everything else to Boone’s cheating. The secondary story could be skipped. I feel like if you read Boone’s texts to the groupie, Phil isn’t as bad in his texts towards Kim. Did you buy the book? Just skim to the cheating.
Finished. And, honestly she was most unlikable heroine I’ve ever read. How she talked to and judged her sisters… horrible.
Can you return? Honestly I don’t remember Sarah that well. I even forgot their names but I remember how the guy emailed and sexted the girl and I had another level of understanding for Phil. I don’t usually pay for chick lits. They are rarely worth the cost. If worth buying I will post here. Penelope Douglas is one other than our Laura. I love her sarcastic humor.
I rarely return books, this one went back.
Ok where is Phil? I have my cast iron Dutch oven out. I wanna multitask right now! Ladies it took me like 6 months to get over the running group scenario. I had to re read Chapters 25-26 till I can recite for a play. Tracie and I came up with our own scenarios to play this out. I get it!!
All I can say is this, I loved WPF and I have enjoyed this blog and everyone’s views. Phil being Phil has just made more discussion for all of us girls. If he was a saint we wouldn’t be having these conversations. LOL
One thing that kind of bothered me was the fact that when Phil finally told Lina he had an affair (even though she had suspected it), she immediately wanted him to make love to her to erase her pain, I guess. Personally, if my husband just confessed that he had been having an affair for four months, there is no way in hell that I would want to be near him. That’s just me. Of course, knowing Lina and Phil’s history together you find out later in the book just how much of a connection they do share. She doesn’t know how not to love Phil. Now Kim is evil. She is not entirely to blame for the affair because it takes two, but Kim just has to stick the knife into Lina’s heart every chance she gets.
Sorry about rambling on because I have already said all of these things before but with newcomers Kay and Kayberla, I get stoked up all over again!
I threw my kindle after reading that scene and not to the other couch. Wasn’t thinking.. I think Laura said her sister couldn’t read for a month after that scene. This question was raised before.
I actually kind of understood that. It wasnt a rational response, but she had just had her entire world shattered. It made me ache for her that a piece of her thought it could be erased. I didnt think it was gross, just unimaginably sad.
Omg. I’m never going to get off of this merry go around. I’m laughing as I’m chomping. Poor Tracie. She’s the defender of everything Phil. Me on the other hand am not so let me play a guessing game here. Tracie is correct. Kim joined the running group to be with Phil. However, Phil didn’t push her away so everyone thought they were married. He also didn’t give a shit what others thought because hey he’s Phil and he’s an hour away from Lina. If he didn’t heed his best friends warning about Phil, you can’t possibly think he cares what strangers think or not. They are of no consequence to Phil. The steamboat, again my guess is Kim followed him. No way no how that Phil took Kim there willingly. Ergo the one night and not the week long sex fest on Linas bed as I first thought. The picture on the nightstand is more of a mystery…
Kay, I think on the runnIng group, Phil was already a member and Kim crowded Phil’s space and he didn’t stop her from doing it. I don’t think they joined together..Laura correct me if I’m wrong…
Phil’s joining a Baltimore running group with Kim indicates to me that it was more than just sex he was getting from her. If all he was interested in was the next sexy time with Kim, why the running group? So interested to read the latest comments, esp. Kayberla’s insights. And thanks for your kindness, Katie, knew I was raising issues y’all had discussed previously but as a newbie, I was just trying to get a grip on my understanding of the book.
I suspect we’re set to learn all kinds of things about Kim’s subtle manipulations that Phil was too boneheaded to see through, including the running group. Laura has insinuated that’s not what it seems and neither is the trip to Steamboat. That little bit made me irrationally angry too. Hard to be team Phil after everyone thought they were married. Also, my name is Kay too! I chose a different moniker to reduce confusion.
Hi Laura,
Can I request a suspense thriller novel as Kim as the center? I loved what kayberla said about her. Causing destruction wherever she goes. Like Gone Girl Laura Branchflower style!!
I don’t want to read about Kim after SN. I want her to get vaginal warts and have to start searching on special websites like vagwartslove. com for men who are into that. I want her to spend so much time updating her gmail calendar with when she has outbreaks and tending to them that she doesn’t have time to bother the Hunters.
Too funny. LOl. Ok. Laura can’t stomach Kim either. I just love hating on her. Even though she didn’t speak much in WPF she’s a three dimensional character you rarely see in this genre of novels.
Let’s say WPF is the ending and there’s no SN. Is Phil redeemed in the readers eyes? Why must he even be redeemed if Lina forgave him? Kayberla said it. Lina wants what she wants and she’s willing to go through the pain of raising another woman’s child because she forgave Phil.
Also I completely agree with kayberla regarding the nuances of this book upon reading it multiple times. I too completely understand Lina. However I am not Lina so I do need my answers. Thank you for your well thought out review Kayberla.
Hi Kayberla. I agree with everything you said. I hate what Phil did and there is no excuse. However, I think he was at a low place in his life with no control and feeling guilty about Katie and then having to be in competition with Dr. Drayton. This was a bad recipe for Phil’s mindset and then you have Kim. She made him feel something. Still no excuse but I get it.
Kayberla I thoroughly enjoyed your post and agree with the way you perceive both Lina and Phil. SN will prove that just because he checked out, doesn’t mean he’s not redeemable…Thank you for joining our conversation..
Kayberla — thank you for your post! You’re assessment of Phil and Lina is just as I intended. I think the readers will have a much better understanding of Phil after reading SN.
Been reading this blog for about a week and catching up on conversations from over the summer.
Back story: I freaking hated this book the first time I read it. I was so pissed at the end I tossed my kindle across the room, (To the other couch, I’m not a total lunatic) and had a little temper tantrum. Decided Lina was a spineless cow and Phil is a d-bag. Walked away thinking Lina was a flaming moron for taking him back. However, I couldn’t get the story out of my mind. I kept thinking about it. I’m a fast reader, which is great when you want to finish a story so you can sleep, but doesnt offer much time for reflection, so I read it again. Then I read it again, making myself take breaks. I enjoy reading stories about mature couples and their issues. I married my husband almost 22 years ago when I was 18, so stories about young couples meeting, accidentally getting pregnant and just generally being immature, makes me feel old. I like realistic stories and cheating stories are fascinating to me, so long as the conclusions are realistic.
Upon my 3rd reading, I found I had come to feel quite differently than my first speed read. It is, in my opinion, the mark of a very talented writer when each time you open a story you see something different. I developed a greater understanding and a more lenient opinion about the actions of these characters. I understand Lina completely. She has a deep need to be cared for, physically and emotionally, and she went all in to get that only from Phil. Phil, on the other hand, takes care of everything. Its who he is. Until his teenage daughter goes off the rails. I have teenagers, and they’re the worst. Nothing makes you feel as incompetent as trying to guide a teenager through life. Upon reflection, I’m not surprised that Phil would also self destruct when his daughter does. He is someone who is always in control and makes the right decisions. But his decision regarding the discipline of his daughter actually pushes her so much farther over the edge, he can’t deal. And the guilt is overwhelming. Then, to the rescue, is the magical doctor who is making everything better when, for his whole life, that was Phil’s job. Is it really that hard to believe that he would need to check out for a bit when his entire life is in chaos? Now, I am not making excuses. Phil made concious decisions to deceive Lina. I too have a huge issue with Steamboat (I celebrated an anniversary there, and its gorgeous!) And the length of time the affair went on, but I have developed a sad kind of sympathy for Phil. Teenagers are a greater strain on a marriage than most people realize. Does it make him the villain that he is human and flawed and not worthy of the pedestal Lina built for him? I dont think so. But that doesnt make him the hero in my opinion, either. It makes him real. It makes this a story that you invest your energy in.
As I thought about how I might go about consciously unraveling my relationship with my husband, who I have been with since I was 16, I wondered how I’d even consider approaching a life that didnt have him in it. Every moment of my life is wrapped up in my husband. I have zero adult experiences and memories that he isnt a part of. Could I ever just decide he had done something I couldnt try to work past? I actually felt sick for Lina trying to navigate a life where every thought didnt go back to Phil. I suspect she would have a much easier time with the affair if she weren’t embarking on a lifetime journey raising Liam and being tied to the most painful experience in her adult life, but she wants what she wants and she has a right to dictate how she goes forward and whether or not to try to invest the time in trusting Phil with her heart again. Kim….well…Kim saw Phil’s issues from miles away, didnt she? She knew exactly how to get in there. Shes like a shark smelling blood in the water with Phil, then again as she knows exactly where to cut Lina for maximum impact. I wonder how many other times in her life she spread destruction in her quest for the things she wanted.
I am looking forward to getting a little bit of perspective from Phil. We know how Lina struggles with her new reality and I’d like to hear from him. I dont know exactly what I will need to make myself “Team Phil”, I’m still pissed, but I hope to be more than “Team Lina” by the time the story is done.
haha. We know how it ends. Kim= no hea. No kim = hea. I will fight to the death on this one. I think coexisting with Kim would give me acute heart failure. How about a good looking Donald. Like Jon Haam twin who is a narcissist. He could be a corrupt politician that Tony or Joseph went after in the past. whatever. Two narcissist can happily coexist. I’m breaking it down and simplifying because Lina needs her equilibrium restored. If I must, I can settle with periphery.
Bahahaha I love you J….if there is Coparenting it will be like Phil at a drive through ordering fast food..Let’s go buddy, diaper bag, anything I should know (Kim says no), he’ll be home at 6 on Sunday….turns and walks away..
Hey here’s a thought. Let’s forgive Phil and think of Kim’s demise in a painful manner. That witch deserves Donald trump. Free melania. Then trump and Kim will live HEA in their narcissistic bubble. They will always be right.
Laura, will Kim leave Phil for power and $$? Or is love the ultimate goal for even a woman like Kim?
I think Janet was asking hypothetically, T. Does a woman like Kim have the capacity for real love? I think she probably thinks she does. She probably thinks it was love at first sight with Phil and she’s on some fairytale journey where Lina is the villain, and Phil will discard his wife and 3 kids for her. But Phil is like a really nice handbag she had to have. There will be another handbag.
Not selfless, self sacrificing love like moms have for their kids. Kim’s love is you are one hot alpha male and I want you to have sex with me 5x a day. superficial surface lust/ love. Sure. If she believes that’s true love and she belongs with Phil then she will fight until another better handbag comes along.
bahahaha. Chanel no longer makes exotic leather. Kim needs to upgrade to a croc Donald.
Exactly Kbabe, Phil is a good man..He went off the beaten path, shit happens but that doesn’t mean he suddenly became a worthless human being, it just means he has to live with the consequences of his actions. Phil is man enough to do just that and he puts all the blame on him…He’s a good redeemable man that made a terrible mistake and will do whatever it takes for his family to be whole again and that includes Liam…
Ok girls, here is my question today. Dig into your soul for this one.
Have you ever come off the rails during any point in your life? Have circumstances led you to be a person for a brief period that wasn’t you?
I have. Never cheating, but in other ways.
Try to have some understanding. Life can be very complicated, so many shades of grey.
I have to start by saying I’m a devout Catholic, so I completely believe God has given us free will. That makes me understand life through shades of grey. Of course, everyone sins, everyone has regrets, everyone is human. Everyone can be forgiven, everyone can be redeemed.
Evil deeds are not just done by evil people—that’s what makes us all human and sinners.
Is cheating forgivable? Of course, should Phil be forgiven? Of course. That doesn’t negate what he did as a sin.
You are absolutely correct Tara, he broke one of the Top Ten…That is recognized throughout WPF…Him breaking his vows, him going to church and him still taking his kids to mass after his separation. He recognizes that and prays everyday Lina will forgive him and come back to him.
My goodness.
Phil is not a villain. He’s an idiot. He thought he’d fuck around with Kim until he didn’t want to anymore and no one would ever know or get hurt. He didn’t mean to hurt Lina. I honestly believe that. He was letting off some steam, being in control of something, saying “fuck it” during that time in his life. It’s not OK. It just is.
I don’t think stepping up for Liam has anything to do with being Catholic. It’s just being a good man. Liam is innocent. Even Lina knows that. She wouldn’t ask him to disown Liam, and he never would. Would you want to be with a man who didn’t father his own son? It’s a very sad, hurtful and complicated situation, yes. Like everyone said, Phil would keep Liam separate if he had to, but Lina loves him too much to make him do that.
You have finally started channeling me J-Girl…LOL. I love it……Goalie is nothing like WPF, but some of his feelings are consistent with Phil’s that we have seen in a few of the snippets…
How about we call Phil an anti hero? I totally get you. He didn’t think he would get caught. I agree, goalie is nothing like WPF. Honest to god we all know it’s Lauras writing that we are all here smacking or hugging Phil right now.
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple. Told them the consequences if that happened. They still ate it and it was Eve who tempted Adam. Phil is human. That’s it.
Hell Fire I had late Physical Therapy today…First of all Phil doesn’t even fall into the category of villain…Phil never meant to harm his family nor did he know that Kim was documenting the affair for Lina…Was he wrong, very much so…but he never once lost sight of who he loved, he may have lost sight of who he was for a little while, finding his way back in SN will be an emotional hell for him…Phil has never let Lina or her family down, until the affair and he will fight tooth and nail to put his family back together. Phil is not forcing Liam on Lina or his kids, he’s letting Lina make the call when she is ready for Liam to come into their family…That alone is hell on Phil, that shows he’s putting his family above himself and Liam…He’s only seeing Liam once a week. Villain No, Human Yes…..
I read a book that Deighj recommended Goalie by
Carter. He cheated for ten years and she took him back. The book was an eye opener and told in a dual point of view…Four months is nothing girls….
Tracie is Phil looked like Danny devito but had Phil’s personality, would you still say all this? Lol. I had to put that in there. I don’t like this talk of disliking Nick I have to admit….
I was going to stop pushing this button, but can’t seem to help myself…
A villain isn’t necessarily evil, and really on some level, Phil knows he’s going to cause pain, and he has the affair anyway. Did he really think Lina wouldn’t find out, did he really think no one would get hurt? Not intentional, but he went into it knowing it would devastate Lina. Guess what it did—and that’s villainous behavior, human definitely.
Goalie… you cannot possibly compare these books. Only similarity is they’re both cheaters.
He didn’t know he was going to cause pain. He was thinking one fuck at a time, because he had no emotional attachment…Remember Tara Kim convinced Phil they were just having fun, no strings attached sex. He had no idea Lina was going to find out, so no he didn’t go into it knowing Lina would be devastated…He was played and yes he was a willing participant, but he didn’t know that Kim changed the damn rules either…
Also, Goalie had some male POV that is relevant to what Phil is thinking based on the snippets Laura has provided thus far.
Obviously, I’m giving him too much credit, he’s not as bright as I thought he was.
He might of compartmentalizations the situation, but he knew what he was doing was going to hurt and devastate Lina, why else was he panicking when Kim wouldn’t let up with the texts and phone calls.
Do you really think he didn’t think about the consequences? Do you honestly think he didn’t know what he was doing was wrong? That he’s just being reckless?
I think he’s smarter than that. He knew what he was doing just as much as Kim did. He didn’t care about the consequences until he chose to care about them.
Team Lina (who’s Team Phil, so I am too, grudgingly)
You are right and that was my issue from the beginning. He’s defense is that he didn’t think Kim would cause this raucous once the affair was over. Since this book is about cheating and how Phil redeems himself to the readers I will stick with Phil being human and leave it at that. I do disagree about Phil being the villain.
Exactly and he kept the guilt at bay by knowing he wasn’t emotionally involved and he wasn’t.. like Laura said Phil’s is the H and he is a flawed H. So love him or not..I choose Team Phil
Good luck trying to sway Tracie and Carrie. You will be met with a concrete wall
I was checking back in to see what the progress on SN was and was intrigued by Kay’s comments this morning. I too questioned Phil’s involvement with Liam and its impact on Lina and his other kids. There seemed to be no real discussion between Lins and Phil about what Phil’s role in Liam’s life would be (purely financial or with Phil being there as his father). It seems likely that is because of the circumstances being that Lina and Phil were separated at the time of Liam’s birth when that decision would likely be made so she had no real reason to have a say. So I guess my question would be a little different, if Lina had asked (not that I think she would) for Phil to have no relationship with Liam (like he initially planned) to save their marriage/family would he have done that for her?
Rebecca Lina wouldn’t have asked that of Phil, she knows what kind of man Phil really is and he wouldn’t abandon her nor would he abandon his children. Phil probably would have kept a relationship separate from Lina and his other kids if she asked, but again she wouldn’t.
He would not have done that for Lina. He is not a martyr by any means and his catholic beliefs would never let him cut all ties with his son. I think he would have kept Liam away from
Lina if she could not accept him. We often forget Lina is sticking with Phil becasue she said she couldn’t be happy without him. So for her I don’t think it’s a choice.
Phil wouldn’t be my H if he’d abandon an innocent child. Think of the man Liam would turn out to be with only Kim as a parental figure. The ladies are right, Phil would never abandon him. At most, he’d keep him separate from Lina.
On a lighter note- my husband has been wearing his unicorn pajama pants (they’re amazing- patchwork denim print with unicorns and rainbows). It doesn’t make him less manly, alpha- it makes him a great dad. ?
It’s the butterfly effect here. Let’s blame Katie; she was born, she started cutting. Let’s blame Lina; she started emotionally relying on Nick before Phil’s physical affair. Let’s blame Phil; he was too hard on Katie, he had an affair. Let’s blame Kim; she pursued Phil. Let’s blame Liam; his existence is why Kim is still around. On and on and on. Change one thing and everything changes. There is hurt and blame and disorder in so many directions. But Kim is the true villain- no doubt. She pursued Phil with every intention to break up his family and that continues. She’s a tornado with no regard for anything in her path.
So what is the point of this discussion? That Phil is at fault? That Phil is the villain? We are going around in cicircles. I already said Phil is the cause but he didn’t ask for the effect which is Kim. Is it wrong time for me say I’m team nick now? Lol. No hard feelings Tara. You and I are more similar than not. It just tells me if our husbands were to stray they wouldn’t live to tell a soul about it.
OMG–I have absolutely no hard feelings, I’m the queen of debate and playing devil’s advocate.
I hope I haven’t hurt too many feelings.
I really want to like Phil (even if I think he was the villain) and I will continue to dislike Nick. I will continue to hate Kim. I want Megan to try to understand her mother and show some compassion. I want Katie and Matt to keep going and have a forever HEA. I want Logan to continue being an amazing, loving son. I want Liam to find his spot in their family and I want Kim to go away.
So, you see, I think we’re all want the same things, right?
Calling Phil a villian is an oversimplification in my opinion. He causes pain and disorder, yes, but do does Nick. They’re all damn villains then, even Lina. Logan, you’re the only Hero!
It may be an oversimplification, but HE is the only one that can cause the hurt and pain that Lina goes through–HE CAUSES IT–it’s exacerbated and made worse by Kim and her evil ways, and is supported by Nick and all of his “emotional” help.
And, YES, Logan is the only pure of heart hero in this story. He loves and supports his mother like no one else and calls Phil out on all of his crap, even if he’s only a kid and Phil demands respect.
Yup everything Ann and Katie said I agree. I totally get Tara but here’s where I differ. Phil is just a man. He’s not selfless and he’s not a superhero. A flawed character for sure but the only true villain is Kim. Therefore bye bye Kim is necessary. I know I’m a broken record. No using Kim as penance. Bad mom is a bad mom. Liam is better off without her otherwise Kim will brainwash Liam and he will become a bitter confused boy. There is no other option here. Unless Kim has a personality transplant in which case she will leave Phil alone. For me it’s more than redemption. It’s called justice and i NEEd my justice.
We have different definitions of villain. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
He causes pain, he causes havoc, he expects forgiveness, he expects to move forward and when Kim causes more chaos and hurt and pain, he doesn’t really fight to keep Lina. When she turns to Nick (which I thought was insanely stupid and I really don’t like him–he’s a player and a user and may have done amazing things for Katie, but he shouldn’t have encouraged her) he walks away–giving her what HE thinks she wants.
I love that he’s an alpha, super confident, caveman. It makes him an interesting and flawed character. Ultimately he’s the cause of Lina’s pain and suffering, him–that makes him a villain in my book and I love a villain hero 🙂
Girls, reading these posts about Phil’s cheating gets me heated up and angry. Then, I step back and think of all of the things we discussed over the last few months about Phil. When I really look at Phil, I see a super confident, handsome as all get out guy, with a cave man personality! LOL. Then I also see someone who is very vulnerable when they lose their control to keep the family on track and try to deal with a crisis when dealing with Katie. He feels he can’t control things any longer and after the fighting with Lina, he just gets weak. He feels like he can’t do anything right. No excuse for his behavior, but that’s how I keep Phil as redeemable. Also, remember Diane said that Kim pursued him relentlessly. My biggest issue with Phil’s cheating is Steamboat and 4 months. I know I sound like a damn broken record! haha.
Again Kim is the villain. She went after Phil. Kim was the proximate cause of the affair. Being the proximate cause makes Kim the true villain. Kim knew exactly what she was doing going after Phil.
Oh boy.
Phil is no villain, just a very flawed hero. And, Tara, yes he is very selfish, but he also does some very selfless things. Taking responsibility for Liam, regardless of the familial and social backlash, is selfless to me. Even though he thought Lina was with Nick, he still helped Alice, supported Lina financially, and stayed true. He gave her space to find herself/come back to him. These are selfless things.
We’ve talked so much about all of this, there’s no need to discuss it further, except let’s be fair to Kay- she’s new to the discussion.
Kay, everyone has the same issues with Phil at first glance. But SN will explain a lot. He did have a 4-month affair, and some may never be able to move on from that. Kim was painting a picture for Lina, making the affair seem more emotional than it was. I’m convinced of that.
Just from a purely literary strategic move, this story would not have been as powerful had every detail and question been explained and answered. The love triangle was central to the story- don’t forget that.
I still say he’s doing what a husband and father are supposed to do.
Would you expect less of a man who isn’t cheating? Would you expect less of your husband or your father?
No matter that he thought she may have been with Nick–he wanted her back, how else should he have behaved.
I get that most can’t see him as a villain, was he thinking about his wife, children, MIL or anyone else when he was cheating? IF he didn’t cheat, Kim would have had NO weapons to use against Lina.
I may be grumpy in the next few weeks. Started less fatty version of Keto diet yesterday. Then last night I was dying for some dinner rolls so I went out at 10pm to the grocery store but only picked up yeast. Maybe I can just smell yeast to satisfy my craving? Back to the real world for me this week. Gotta take care of our 5th leak in the condo renovation. ✌️
Tara do you think Phil is evil?? A villain is a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime. A character whose evil actions are important to the plot. The villain is KIM!! Phil doesn’t even come close to being a villain as far as I’m concerned!
I think the character in the story that creates havoc and causes pain is the villain. Phil does this, he creates the havoc and the pain with his cheating.
That does not mean the villain is evil or can’t be redeemed. Kim is also a villain, but a lesser one. She doesn’t exist without him. He doesn’t cheat, she becomes immaterial.
Nobody likes to admit it because we like our heros to be strong and not fail, but that’s what makes cheating stories so great. They can fail and they can be redeemed and forgiven and move forward.
Isn’t this what most of us struggle with regarding Phil.
Let’s be honest, whether we like it or not, Phil’s the villain in WPF. He’s selfish, his needs always come first. He needs to be right, He needs Lina back, does he ever really put Lina first, or is his needs driving it. He needs his family to accept Liam. Did he ultimately start his relationship with Kim because he needed a release from his frustrations and couldn’t reach through to Lina.
The more I think about him, the more I want to throat punch him.
The only reason I’m remotely team Phil is because I’m team Lina and she’s choosing him.
Financially he wasn’t selfish. He gave her more than her share according to her lawyer. He continued to take care of Lina’s mother (fixing things around her house etc). That wasn’t selfish. He didn’t have sex with another woman during their time apart. As far as Kim is concerned. She intentionally went after Lina – that wasn’t necessary (and on her birthday)
I also don’t agree that he’s a villain. He’s a man that has an affair. No justifying it. It was selfish. But a villain is someone trying to hurt people. Kim
He wants Lina back, so he does the right thing. What a good husband should already be doing.
Cheating husbands are the villains, it doesn’t mean they can’t be the hero too. That’s the point of forgiveness and redemption. For me that’s the driving point of a cheating story, can they still be the hero?
So you believe if he knew it was over for good, he’d suddenly cut off Alice?
And Laura, what happens to villains in books and movies? You get rid of them!!! Hahaha. I’m standing firm on my stance. Unless you tell me otherwise. Lol. I think the others are too lenient when it comes to Kim but that ending is too too realistic for me. I need her to let Phil go completely.
Laura, that’s a curious question isn’t it? I would hope not, but that’s would be your question to answer.
All I’m saying is he’s doing what I would expect a husband to do, I don’t think he’s going above and beyond for a man that wants his wife and family back.
Gotcha — well the answer is yes, he would.
Janet — I like the ending
1. Well, that makes me think higher of him ?
2. I don’t feel any sympathy towards Kim, she’s an evil crone.
3. I am completely looking forward to SN!
Well, Kay makes some good points regarding Phil. I think we all struggled with these same thoughts at first. However this subject has been dissected over and over. I’m team Phil BUT I always had an issue with the 4 months and Steamboat. I love reading other views. It makes you think!
Hi Laura. How do you keep your sanity from our incessant questions?
Oh Boy, thank God Phil will come through in SN or you may be answering our questions forever.
Hi Ann. I can’t think about the 4 months or I will kill Kim myself since Laura won’t do it in SN. We will get our answers soon enough. There will be resolution and peace. Have a wonderful day!
Why kill Kim? He’s the reason it went on for 4 months. Kim is just a tool he uses to get what he wants. Kill him. He should have said no from day one, no matter how hard she chased him
Ugh ugh ugh. There are others who share your views. I think Phil was a selfish prick in WPF but he isnt evil. He was just a knucklehead who thought Kim was playing the same game he was. Phil and Lina are both very flawed characters but Phil is not the villain. Maybe he was the cause but Kim is definitely the effect. I think it’s realisric that after being with one partner for 25 years he may stray once. Not saying it’s ok but I can see it happening.
this is a comment from a reader named Kay left on one of the other threads last night — I’m copying it here…
New to the party here with some observations and questions:
Have spent FAR more time than expected angsting over WPF. Still get a heart clench whenever I think of “Your husband couldn’t get enough of me” and the trip to their vacation house. Looking forward to getting additional perspective on both and more.
Everything Phil did was so intentional. It didn’t “just happen,” at least not after the first time in New York. And the way I read it, he had been intimate with Kim on that last trip to New York just before Lina saw Kim’s message and was trying to figure out a way to see her that very weekend. It wasn’t until he reconnected with Lina that Friday night and when I think his boss/friend/mentor told him to end it with Kim, only then did he begin to do so. And according to Lina, it had only been three weeks since she and Phil had been intimate; it wasn’t as if it was a four month drought at home.
He keeps repeating that Lina and the children are the most important things in his life and he would never do anything else to hurt them. He tells Kim that he will only “meet his legal responsibilities and nothing more” to the child. Then in SN we find out he is now playing Daddy to the new baby. Not that it isn’t understandable in a way. But if anything would hurt his first family, it would be this, and hurting Linda and the children further is what he said he wouldn’t do. In Phil’s case, pay attention to what he does, not what he says, evidently. He tells Lina he will put her needs before everyone else’s. Again he doesn’t do that unless he thinks her needs involve watching him take care of his baby with another woman. Starting to get angry here!
What was the relationship Kim thought she had or expected to have with Phil. She is angry at Lina as if Lina is the intruder, not herself. How else to explain her behavior at the wedding? I feel no sympathy for her, unlike a few others here, but I do wonder what exactly Phil allowed her to expect from the relationship.
In relation to Nick, when Lina asked if he would cheat on his wife, he says, “I would never cheat on you, Lina.” Not exactly the same thing. And we soon know that he is at least emotionally cheating on his girlfriend.
Questions:
Is there any way to access the scenes that are referred to in the comments in the blog. I have seen the ones posted, but feel like there are more that are being referenced?
I am so looking forward to reading the rest of the story in Swimming Naked and compliment Laura on giving us such a thought provoking book.
I was on goodreads reading reviews for Jewel’s book and your picture popped up. Let me know if you read it because I don’t like reading books based in LA. The couple meet in coachella of all places so I will read if you all think it’s worth it. Just finished 1984 so I want something lighter hearted.
Yes that’s the one. You do look like Mona Lisa. Lol. I like M zapata too but not in the mood where they don’t have sex till 80 percent. Haha. I will start Kristen Callahan or Sara ney tonight.
I read 2 pages and it’s too slow. Maybe I’m just not in a reading mood.
try Mia Sheridan’s Stinger. He’s a porn star! The last half is odd but the premise is so good. I love reformed strippers and porn stars. Or Defy by LJ Shen. He’s a senior in HS and a total ahole. She’s his english teacher. Novella so you won’t be bored. So so good.
I think I’m going to be the only reader in romance land that didn’t love Luna and the Lie. It was good, but I’m glad I got it on KU. it should have been called Secrets and a Lie. Too long, too drawn out.
I’m about a third the way through Luna. I like where it’s going, she does a great job building the story. Something funky is going on but you can’t tell what yet.
Colleen Hoover… has anyone else read Verity? And is All Your Perfects worth $8.99?
It was a very slowwww burn. I binged all 4 books in 2 evenings. But I really loved it. Not sure I could take on a 4-book series again though- I’m too impatient.
Hi Deighj and Ann…The shutdown doesn’t affect my job, we are considered mission essential personnel, I’m glad you girls checked in, I miss you when you don’t…I’m also moving from the walker to a cane…Yay!
Good morning girls. I’ve been absent for several days but catch up each evening. I wish everyone a Happy New Year and hope the coming year will be the best for us all. It’s been an extremely trying Christmas for me with guests every night for dinner. This would be okay but they were my daughter’s friends that didn’t help with clean up at all. Dirty dishes anyone? Just had to vent there.
Trace it’s wonderful that you’re walking as well as you are. Two weeks out and not limping. That’s our warrior girl! Will the government shutdown affect you at all? Thought about you reading the news.
J, Katie, Ann, I’m trying to whittle down books on my Kindle but having ADD on most. I did finish Goalie by M.E. Carter for the 2nd time and enjoyed it much more than the first read. The latter part really made me think. It’s about a soccer player that was never faithful from the beginning of his relationship with his wife. Good book. I also finished Heartless by Kristie Love which was an okay read. I just read All Your Perfects by Coleen Hoover which was a freebie. Despite the bad reviews I enjoyed.
Katie your resolution on a balanced life is so good that I’m adopting it. I haven’t made resolutions in years. But I do need to make some changes. Thank you.
As for feeling sorry for Kim that ain’t happening. That said watch Laura change my mind. Even thinking about her brings up those Scorched Earth feelings that Trace and Janet laugh about. When I think about Laura’s writing I think about a quote I read which is ‘Impossible itself says I’m possible.’ Good luck on that one Laura.
Missed all of you. It makes ME happy reading about your lives. Take care my friends.
Ania, how was your Christmas and New Year’s? Any traditions for the New Year celebration?
Love you Deighj.
My advice for balance. Say no to others and yes to yourself more often. Buy clothes and swim suits that fit, even if they aren’t the size you want (not a problem for you). There’s always housework to be done. Always. Putting it off for days or a week makes no difference. Quit the job you hate. You’re good enough and talented enough to find another.
More…
Do something for yourself every night- read, bath, etc.
Avoid lists
Read a Laura Branchflower book
Discuss it to death with a group of virtual girlfriends.
?
Katie, I’m fortunate enough that I don’t have to work outside my home. How did you know the first thing I did was make a list? I’m all about organization. My home is my job so the first thing I should do is toss that list. The second and most important is saying YES to myself.
Okay list tossed. There are so many ‘yes to me’ choices in front of me I need to make another list LOL. Nah, I’m going to go with the flow. I am so brave. Wish me luck because I want to but I’m afraid of stepping out of my comfort zone.
Hi girls.
I took all my decorations down already. Much quicker than when I put them up.
Tracie, I love your birthday scene. I find myself going back and rereading many of Laura’s snippets.
Laura, I’m sure you are so very exhausted, you need to take a nice relaxing break when you are completely finished. One thing I love about your writing, Laura. You sure know how to create the most amazing male characters. I’m dead serious.
I went back on my low carb diet today. I so so need it! I gave away all my cookies, candies, etc.
I love you girls you crack me up….I told my husband yesterday that I felt like I had a dog nipping at the back of my knees and realized it was my ass slapping them Lol…got to do some squats soon…
I’m feeling Phil swooney today I’m going to have to read my BD scene again…Lol. Laura since you are the only one that knows what Phil is thinking, in my BD scene was Phil stewing over what Adele had said when he went to change clothes?
Routine sounds great! I will start tomorrow. Argggh. I gained more than Tracie. The Walmart jeans I got are now too tight and I’ve been using a hair tie to button my jeans. This Insanity needs to stop!
Laura do you think you will be done with the editing this week? Do you care what happens to Drew because you want Alice to be happy?
Katie, I gave up Linda kage’s mason Pov. I will start the new jewel e Ann. It just came out yesterday.
Ok this moose needs to do one last lunch before going into hibernation.
Good Morning Girls, you are always working hard Laura and 5lbs when you are 5’9” is nothing…I’ve gained almost 12 since August…I’m looking like a pint sized blow fish…I’m so happy the holidays are over and I have this week off and one more. I go back to work on the 14th, can’t wait to get back to a routine.
LOL. No, J, I don’t think she’s quite as psychotic as the girl from Gone Girl. No throat slashings.
I finished Torn last night. I liked it. A solid 4 stars. I wanted to keep knowing what happened so that was a plus. I thought the characters’ voices all sounded the same, except with more expletives for the men. My only complaint.
I was just thinking, is Kim like that character from gone girl? Amy. Amy is a psychopath… my sisters and I are discussing possible endings. Chomp chomp. That bitch. Chomp chomp. Look at this on Zara. Kim would wear it. Chomp chomp. Bitch…
I wonder if she has to go through the whole manuscript? Remember Jordan was 60 pages in and felt sorry for Kim and Phil…I may feel sorry for Phil, but not Kim,,I think it might be the hospital scene…Phil may not be mean to Kim right after giving birth, but he won’t be all in to her either…He’ll be all about Liam and probably going through some bittersweet memories about Lina having his other kids…
I don’t think so. No deleted scenes but a few add ons. My guess is end of January for SN. I think all I did was eat since thanksgiving. All I want is bread. Just plain dinner rolls with cheese and jam. I’m gonna need a whole lot of dinner rolls for SN
Laura glad you got to sleep in and you got My excite vibes buzzing over our SN. We are so close to skinny dipping I can feel the polar brrrrrr….It’s freezing
here……Sorry you are so tired Laura…You may need to tell family and friends you need to hibernate for a day and just sleep and rest….Glad your dad is doIng so well too!
Happy New Year!
Wishing everyone a fabulous 2019!
Chandler let me sleep until 9:45 — sweet boy.
I’ve been working on SN all morning (on page 89)– it’s currently 8,000 words longer than WPF.
Did I mention that I’m tired? I have another hour before I have to be somewhere.
So happy you are on the mend Tracie. I saw my father last night. He’s doing great — just needs a cane now.
Hi girls….. Happy New Year ? 2019!!!
I hope that this new year is one of health and good vibes for all of you. December was a crazy month for me and I have not gone much to the blog but I’m following Laura by Instagram (great job Kate ??) every day is less to have in our hands SN, so excited!!!
Great news Tracie, you started the year with the right foot ?
Linda, when you have time let us hear your thoughts on the ending. Hope to hear more from you until SN comes out. Last leg of the race so to speak. Feliz año nuevo! Also, I watch Maangchi on youtube for Korean food. Tell your mom she’s my favorite Korean cook on youtube.
Happy New Years!
Tracie it sounds like you are really doing well. It’s good to hear.
Katie I hope you like Torn and I don’t think he’s the man bun type. Lol
Janet it sounds like you entertained a lot of family during holidays. I know you are still agonizing over Kim. Me too. Sometimes I get so pissed off about Phil. I know he redeems himself I just hope I get satisfied in SN which I think we will.
Tara I think I have read most of the books you listed.
Good morning!
My daughter danced her first tooth out last night. That was an exciting end to NYE.
I do resolutions. Last year I desperately sought balance in my life, and I succeeded. I’ve never felt more balanced or content. Pretty cool. This year I need to get organized. And lose a few lbs.- standard.
I’m halfway into Torn. I like it, although sometimes the main guy Tor sounds like a woman talking. (Another thing Laura does well- male voice). He sounds smoking hot though. I’m not usually into long hair, but as long as he doesn’t put it in a man-bun, I’m cool.
Good Morning Girls…Happy New Year:..Two Weeks Post Op today and walking some without the walker without limping….Yay….Hoping to be back to warp speed before long…Hope you girls are enjoying your day…
Happy New Year ?!
So good to hear you are walking a bit Trace. Couple more weeks and hopefully you can ditch the walker for good.
Still thinking about coexisting with Kim so nothing’s changed from last year to a new year. ? I have one final family get together this morning and I should be rid of them for a few months. Have a great day everybody.
Nothing like seeing your dance moves through the movements of your 4yo. That and my dog jumping on my back like he’s stopping a seizure must mean I have quite the moves.
T- we painted plastic champagne glasses for our drinks.
J- no driving over Phil; he already did that to himself. Take a Valium.
No on the run over..That made me shiver he is way to swoon worhy and sorry…I love him….
I forgot to answer your questions about Ned. . Ned did get to visit his daughter. Joseph put the nails in his coffin, just like Phil will do to Kim. You are special too sweetie and way on the other side of the spectrum from being a loser…?
I do try and make a few resolutions. Fewer the better so I don’t feel like a total loser. I know the things I need to work on next year. What is gourmet mac and cheese? Did you make it? I had cup ramen for dinner and getting ready for church. Now, I want Phil to be run over by Kim’s car. I need meds to settle down my hormones.
Kbabe that’s the way I see it happening too…BOOM back at you Lol….I don’t do resolutions I just take life one day at a time and do my best to enjoy it…now other people can screw it up for me LOL.,.That cracked me up…Wish I had some Mac and cheese. Did you get little H a fancy glass for her non alcoholic cider? Her need one! Mimi always got my babies special things like that…I use to tell them if they were going to hang with a Big Dog like their Mimi, they had to have the equipment Lol…..they ate it up….
I should drink more often. I feel good.
I’m eating gourmet Mac n cheese, chicken nuggets and crescent rolls.
I’m ready for the holidays to be over. I’m tired.
Do you girls do resolutions?
Re: Kim. I agree with Tara; leaving forever isn’t realistic. And Laura is QUEEN of realistic; that’s why we love her so much.
Kim’s still causing a reaction when SN starts…by the end she won’t. That’s closure in itself. Lina will become immune to Kim and her bullshit. Logan will forgive. Megan will fall from grace. Katie will continue to be cool. Kim will move on with a new dude…shared custody with majority to Phil. Boom.
You know, this may be the first book where I read the end before I even start the book…. just kidding. Sorry guys, sharing custody and I have to imagine kim picking Liam up from the Hunter’s house every other week? Did Ned do this with Joseph and Lia? I forget. Also, Ned genuinely loves his daughter and is a striver. Kim is neither. She’s in it for herself. She had Liam because of Phil not because she wanted a baby. What is the climactic scene??
I changed my mind. I don’t want Kim to get the prince. I am back to having her floating down the potomac after Shiloh’s attackers are done with her. All this realistic talk isn’t giving me the warm and fuzzy.
Sure there can be redemption with Kim hanging on the sidelines. His redemption comes through Lina and his kids…Lina’s forgiveness is his redemption… Plus, he is fighting the witch in SN, to protect his family..She can be put in her place and still be around…Phil will put the nails in her coffin…just watch and see…
Once she realizes Phil will never make her the center of his world, she’s going to need someone to feed her ego, someone that she will manipulate into making her his queen. She’ll move on and do it by choice. That doesn’t mean she won’t continue to push Phil’s buttons, just she’ll have other priorities.
crate rates. You make me laugh. I’ll pay for her international duties and taxes personally. Ok. You know the climax is going to be a big one and it involves Kim. I’m positive about that. So what makes SN a redemption story? Laura even put this word in the description. Think about it. Can there be redemption with Kim around this family? Tara mentioned Kim as Phil’s penance for life. In real life, sure. In SN, not really because Laura said Kim needs to suffer and villains don’t usually stick around novels. She is not a bunny boiler but she is a humongous thorn in the Hunter’s household and most certainly the villain in this book. So what happens to the evil witch?
I think it’s the Catholic in me that sees penance, forgiveness and redemption as a package deal. When I think of her being his penance it’s about accepting the consequences of his behavior, we know this is already the case. But, think about it, if she’s not completely out of their lives, at some point Liam will have question about why he has 2 moms—more consequences, it won’t ever be gone completely. I’m okay with that, it makes things realistic.
Ultimately, I don’t see Phil, Lina and thei family dealing with Kim on a daily basis for the rest of their lives, but as Liam’s mother she will always be somewhere on the periphery.
Just curious… if Kim’s the villain of SN, who’s the villain in WPF? Thoughts??
I agree-yes periphery is fine. All said and done Kim is Liam’s mom and she’s not abusive towards him. I just don’t want Phil fighting forever for his family and until Kim lets Phil go he will always have his guard up.
That’s a good catch! Drew can be irresponsible, Brian is Nick’s son, and Shiloh is fragile. Kim could spin and expand and lie lie lie. The 3 paragraphs will turn into 30! And Matt can make an appearance. I want her gone Tracie. Gone to Alaska or to abu dhabi. Can she marry a Sheik and cause trouble in a different country? Tara, don’t read this post. lol
We all want her gone. I just don’t know if it’s a realistic expectation to think she’s going to be completely out of the picture. And, let’s be honest, even if they have full custody, she’ll keep showing up like a bad penny.
Kim: bye bye Liam. I didn’t like changing your diaper and I found a 35 yr old trillionaire somewhere. Mama will send expensive toys for Christmas because your birthday maybe too difficult for me to remember. And Phil, you are a loser douche and I finally woke up from my nightmare. You really aren’t good enough for me and you belong with the old wrinkly whatshername. What was I thinking? I really need to give Prince Ahmad an extra blowjob tonight for saving me from this hell. Have a miserable life together but just to make sure you remember me forever, I will be sending you a pink tie along with Liam’s presents till I die.
J-Girl I read Laura’s description on the 3 scenes she has to do….Laura’s going to love this one….What if she has to expand upon those individuals and relationships because Kim is trying to say that Lina’s family is to off the rails to have Liam around?
LOL. Happy New Year everyone! I want this year over too. Never again sounds so good. One more for me tomorrow and I am a willing hermit. Katie’s NYE sounds perfect. I know how old I am but my mom’s making me attend midnight service. Good night ladies.
Hi girls, H and I are ready. NYE for two with my girl tonight. Lights in mason jars, gold and silver garland strands, puffy-painted plastic champagne glasses, horns, and hats; alcoholic and non-alcoholic bubbly in the fridge and popcorn ready to be popped. Woot! You’re not drinking alone if your kid is here right? Got myself some cheap Moscato.
Truly love all of you. Wishing you a fun and safe NYE!
Oh also Laura, is you have time to tell us, did the editor love the book as much as Jordan did? I’m positive but so curious to know if she fell in love with Phil like most of your bloggers here did. Did she cry?!
LOL — I have no idea. This was a different editor and all she said was “the novel is in great shape”. That’s all I got besides the actual edits. The two I have used in the past had lot of opinions — this one not so much.
Yesss! Do not mess with perfection. The editor is a robot. I’m so relieved Liam stays Liam and every word is intact. Lol. Thanks for making our day. Party on Wayne, party on Garth!
Thanks…I knew that name…They are giving me a medicine for nerve pain and it messes wirh my memory…Driving me nuts….I bet I couldn’t even quote my WPF Chapters…
Laura I’m so happy about the editor’s review and like Janet I’m so excited about the new scenes…. I’m so excited…..Thank you for all you do for us…
Katie in Torn the main male character was best friends with the parents who had a baby when they were all teenagers. She grows up with him as an uncle type figure. He struggles throughout the book with not giving into his feelings for her.
Oh I forgot about that. I don’t think it s like twilight. It didn’t bother me and I hate love triangles. Keep reading..
Thanks Tracie I am feeling better. How are you doing? I hope you’re healing and feeling better.
Laura I second Tracie’s comment, thank you for your wonderful books and keeping this blog going!
I’m reading Torn by Carian Cole… Question- so I didn’t read the Twilight series, but my SIL made me go to all of the movies. Is this book headed in the direction of Twilight? Didn’t Jacob supposedly love Bella but he really was in love with her unborn child, Esme?
The dad’s friend and the daughter has always shared a connection. But the love on his part is more recent while the daughter has loved him forever? He has a complicated ex…
Hi girls. I’ve missed all of you, but between this damn cold and the holidays, I’ve been busy. We did go to a Ravens party yesterday at our friends house and it was a blast. My friends are devoted Ravens fans and everyone was yelling so loud I couldn’t believe it.
Trying to catch up on these posts from the last few days, and I can not even imagine in my mind Mr. Hunter going down on evil Kim. Yuck, makes me sick to think about it. I can’t even think about him kissing Kim. Screwing her is one thing, but kissing is personal.
I did read the Perfect Marriage and I liked it. I also liked Torn by Carian Cole which is the big age gap. I’m trying to find something new to read and just can’t find anything that hits me. I have so many on my TBR list too. I did read Unforgiven a while ago and I liked that.
There’s my voice of reason…Missed you last couple of days sister…Happy New Years Eve…Tell Jordan safe travel and don’t look any goof balls in the eye….
I feel like I haven’t had a moment and that will continue until Friday. Very happy about the Ravens win yesterday!
I have good news. I have the manuscript back from the editor. No deleted scenes. In fact she asked me to add three new scenes! Unfortunately I can’t get back to it until Friday. There were barely any edits which is great news
LOL — The new scenes are just background. A paragraph about how Nick could be Katie’s psychiatrist when their boys were best friends (have to explain that Brian and Logan met after Katie was with Nick), background on Drew and a scene with Shiloh. They were good catches
Who’s Drew?
Yes everything Tracie said. Thank you thank you for everything.
May be when Laura gets back there will be a scrap snippet or her editor deleted a hate Kim scene that she could share….I’d love one….Juat a few lines like your easy snippet we love so much….
Yesss. I so need that right now. I think we give Kim too much power. We need to do the mantras again. Keep us focused and not veer off in the next few weeks. My brother in law bought some pot brownie and they are all conked out except for me. Sheesh
You girls are killing me…If he did go down on her, he probably on did it once..it would of took gasoline to get that taste out of his mouth…Yuck, puck….ewww.
Thanks Katie Janet and I won’t sleep now… Lol…The text said you can wake me up with your tongue…I hate Kim……that says he did…Puke
do not group me here with Katie. I have anxiety again. Tracie, you were supposed to say he did not. I haven’t read it in awhile so I forgot the exact words. Let’s talk about something else tomorrow. Deighj will shit. I like unforgiven so far…
I know Janet I can’t stand it either, but hells bells he had an affair…we’ve moved on sweet girl….TeamPhil…..My loyalty is to you Mr. Hunter..
You are right J, Deighj will be scorching the earth…But I keep reading my BD scene over and over…..He was so hot in that scene and possessive….
I don’t thing I will be able to get through the whole book without talking to you girls…That will be fun, that would be a time when I wished we could conference call each other..
Laura miss you…figure you and Jordan are tearing up the town….
So scorch the earth. That makes me laugh. Thank you. Laura will say girls you have been busy with your crazy minds. No! Never!
What are you all reading now? Maybe it’s time for my goodnight moon snippet. I need hate Kim reinforcement
Gross. He looks like a meat head. Sorry I just can’t agree with you regarding men. When I was younger I only liked John malkovich and tommy lee Jones. I think they are too old now and I am as well so I don’t have any fantasy men.
Tracie hates Kim as much as I do. She would say that would be off limits. I think Kim liked Phil being in control and she probably let him do whatever he wanted. In the texts she sounded almost docile. And now I’m remembering the texts. She said you can lick me awake. Die.
He’s such a jock. I like reading about them but in real life I don’t find football players attractive. Physically water polo guys or swimmers are more appealing.
I need Phil to explain about the pictures ASAP. Like who took that bar scene picture? Was it a set up by Kim?
Haha. My husband is built like that. I used to be into swimmer builds- grew up around them. But you know what they say, once you go jock, you never go bock.
Don’t set your expectations too high. He did have an affair, and it was him in the photos. But Jordan says his explanation helps.
Look up Frank Mir. He’s an mma fighter. I think he’s hot.
OMG. I’m too old!! Leave me be with the likes of john Malkovich. You are sending me pictures of meat heads(but I love mma stories). I figured your husband is a hunk of meat. lol. Firefighters and cops are definitely alphas. I can only handle them in books. They are too much for me.
Oh they’re a bunch of pussy cats. The wives run shit at home.
Amen Katie…Me and my daughter-in-law run the train, we tell them when to blow the whistle…Lol
This things making me crazy. It refreshed on me twice and the first post didn’t show up, very weird.Tara
Haha.
Yes, Act Your Age reminded me. But I’ve been curious. Because Phil was always on top with Lina= control freak.
That’s why I want her on top, because of what it symbolizes.
With Kim, I imagine a lot of doggy and BJs. But I could see Kim being a demanding lover. I hope he didn’t with her- he’d need to wash his mouth out with bleach.
Waaaaaaahhhhhh. do not go there. Please god no. I didn’t even want him kissing her or have Kim in his bmw. Tracie joked that Phil should sell his car. I thinks she wedged her underwear between the seats. I hate him if he did. He didn’t! Lina, Nick is still waiting for you.
I’m going to be honest, I don’t like thinking about them having sex. The whole thing feels wrong. Which is weird because I don’t hate it in other cheating stories.
And I’d like to think it would have been to intimate, but thinking about sex between them is, frankly, gross—and leaves me feeling uncomfortable. Which is weird as I don’t have problems with sex in other cheating stories.
Yay! Katie and I are friends on goodreads. Happy hunting Kbabe. I just keep TBR for my records. Some I have read and some never make the list but I do go on couple times a week to read reviews. There’s a girl named Nikki. She loves taboo I think.
Chatty Cathy here today. Do you guys like m/m romance? I don’t read many but I like kindle Alexander. One is always the playboy/more experienced and the other is usually more innocent. All have some angst and longing. Love her.
I know Katie doesn’t read athlete NA genre so much but I love athletes and rock stars too. Loved am madden’s back up series(evil OW is there) and Sara Ney’s wrestling series. Any recs on these two themes?
Not a huge fan of m/m, but LOVED Kate Canterbary’s Fresh Catch. All her books are great! Honestly, I read just about anything… NA, sports, rock star, MC, etc. Have you read Kylie Scott (rock star), Kristen Callihan (sports and rock star series) or JM Darhower?
Katie, JM Darhower has a couple of age gap books. Dahlia West has a couple of age gap stories in her Burnout series—one of theme had a BDSM kink thing that was a little TMI for me, but the series still worked for me.
I would do this. Your favorite book is TL swan so read a few reviews and the ones you like you can start following them. Like you, some may love the age gap theme or taboo theme. I found most cheating theme book by following Geri and share her taste in books. You can follow me but I don’t give reviews. However I follow good authors and reviewers
and my TBR pile is huge. It’s jp. If you go on WPF reviews look for 5 star by Jp 7 months ago. I think there may be more than one JP but my editing was 7momths ago. Request to be friends and you can follow everyone I’m following. The book recs alone are more than worth it. I never knew about self published authors till 3 yrs ago
Shoot, you girls are ahead of me.
I read Act Your Age…I didn’t particularly like the daddy-daughter fetish thing, but otherwise it was great. Like in Wanting Me. Cane how he calls her “little one.” Eh, erm, hmmm, just not sure about that. Otherwise, hot!
I’m not normally into the Daddy thing, in fact this is probably the only one I’ve liked. I loved his reactions when he realizes she’s left Australia and while reading her letter, and their reunion date night at his home, so many feels!
Obviously love Sense of Belonging and Mr. Masters is a definite WOW! I read Without You Here last week, I read it the last time you mentioned it—Quite good.
That sounded much more judgmental than I intended. I’m super open minded- that’s just not my thing. No judgment or assumptions from me! ?
Scream daddy all you want!
Ok I just saw on insta. Great job!! So I think Laura should send the arc to Geri reads-dirtyromance. Some bloggers won’t read cheating theme. Geri likes them and her reviews are fair. You really should do goodreads. I have discovered so many authors this way. Actually the whole NA genre, I found through goodreads.
What should I do on goodreads? I have an account but very very rarely go on. Today I looked at an age gap list on there. First time in months.
Can you tell me Laura’s Instagram page again? I want to see who is following. I can look on my daughters account.
Regarding soulmates, I believe in hard work and commitment if the couple share the same vision and goals. Remember what I said about Chris rock and how two cokeheads can stay together forever?
Thanks for saving me from that book, girls. I’m starting a taboo age gap instead. They never let me down.
So, I do believe in meant to be. But I also think even soul mates have to put a lot of work into a lifelong relationship. Passion ebbs and flows.
Janet, needlecrafts are a dying art. Your daughter sounds uber cool. I can sew and use looms, but nothing with needles. I want to learn with my daughter.
Tracie, if I never broke up with Tony Prossi, how would he have been available for Casey?
I honestly don’t know if I’ll ever find a book boyfriend better than Tony. Sigh.
Yes, like dad’s best friend, boyfriend’s dad, etc. Teacher/student is good too, but I feel like that is it’s own subgenre.
If it’s done right, it’s not weird.
I just started Torn by Carian Cole (dad’s best friend- 15 years older). Can’t say if it’s great or not, but it was high on the Goodreads list.
Birthday Girl by Penelope Douglas is great (boyfriend’s dad- no cheating, 20 years older I think)
I also liked Wanting Mr. Cane (dad’s best friend- 17 years older).
Have you read Eve Dangerfield’s Act Your Age? It’s a double taboo story—age gap and BDSM. SO GOOD! And I’m not really into BDSM, but this one was great!
Girls first of all if I had Tony Prossi there would be no Ex about it, we would be like the Concord breaking the speed of sound constantly….Yum A….I do believe there is someone for everyone…Kbabe I believe in timing as well. Phil saw Lina across a dance floor and knew she was his one and only love. I believe the connection you talk about is the soulmate factor…It’s not always easy with my husband, but he’s worth the effort….I read something in a book one time where the h mom didn’t believe in wedded bliss, she called it wedded work…That I ? percent agree with…
Everything will be explained in SN. We get to see Phil’s POV and see a different side to him that we weren’t exposed in WPF. Like Laura’s daughter said Phil’s not for us but he’s perfect for Lina. Shouldn’t that satisfy us since we want HEA?
Here’s a question for Sunday. Do you guys believe in soulmates in real life?
That’s an interesting question. I believe in connection. How you can connect with someone as if you’ve known them for your whole life, or in another life- doesn’t necessarily have to be romantic.
As far as in romantic relationships, I feel like my husband and I were meant to be. If I bored you with our whole story, you’d agree I think. It has always been so easy with us. I guess I’m hesitant to use the term soul mate- that seems a cliche.
Life can be hard- love, loyalty, understanding, and respect of a partner should be easy. If they aren’t, I don’t think the couple is meant to be.
Well there’s more. His sister went to school with my best friend. His sister and I have stories from the same parties, but we never met. I played sports with a kid of his family’s friends. And here’s the big one. I was born in the same hospital as his sister, one day apart. We never met, never knew of each other. Then we met- in a different county.
So we could’ve met at many times in our lives, but we never could’ve worked, because of age, or being in other relationships, etc. I’m sure we unknowninflg crossed paths many times. But we actually met when the timing worked.
I also believe in timing.
Damn, Laura needs to write a book based on us. ? Except she can put Tony Prossi in there as my older HS love, as a flashback. My actual boyfriend in HS was also named Tony.
Lol you wish Tony was your ex. We all do. What a nice story. Timing really is a huge factor how couples get together or not. Thanks for sharing!
I just finished Desperate Wife. I’m glad they got back together- he seemed to learn his lesson, seemed truly remorseful. It was best for the kids. In this one, I feel like he justified his affair by convincing himself he was in love with the girl, but it was really just another lustful physical affair. Loving her made destroying his family worth it in his head. But she really just symbolized the affection and closeness he missed with his wife. The second the mistress started talking marriage and babies he seemed to emerge from the fog.
I’ll still never understand how someone can say they’ve been unhappy for years and that’s why they cheated. Uh, you didn’t think to mention that to your spouse?
Anyway.
I liked this one.
I just bought a different kind of book- finger knitting projects. I’m going to get my daughter started knitting, first without needles. We are going to make an octupus for her cousin on the way.
I’m so over parties as this point. I declined all invites for New Years. My husband works, so I bought some cheap wine and sparkling cider, and my daughter and I will have our own party.
What are you girls up to?
I’m starting When Life Happened by Jewel E Ann next. Anyone read it?
Oh don’t read that! Do you know what it’s about? There’s a huge plot twist. Couldn’t get over it. I love jewel e Ann. Did you read undeniably you or look the part?
I read Look the Part. I like her. When Life Happened came up as best in 2018 from a blogger I follow. Although it’s from 2017… I didn’t look much into the plot. It doesn’t sound that bad?
It’s not bad. She’s a crazy good writer. But there’s a plot twist. If you don’t mind the heroine with 2 men(not at same time) then ok. I have harder time with those because I don’t like investing my time with one character only to realize it wasn’t meant to be. If you want to read it just go in blind but I think you know what I’m saying. Btw I love octopus ?. So cute about knitting. My daughter is self taught knitter and chrocheter.
Did you read her older ones Only Trick? Undeniably you and the holding you trilogy? The holding trilogy is an angst fest but good. Mean OW in this too.
I don’t like it when people tell me go in blind. This happened with One Day by David Nicholls and I was so so mad when the girl died at the end. I felt cheated! There’s that word again. At least when you read Nicholas sparks we pretty much know one or the other MC dies.
I started Elizabeth Finn’s
Unforgiven. She’s another good writer.
Who is the blogger you follow? Natasha the book junkie?
Oh I don’t even remember. I follow quite a few on the Instagram I run for Laura.
When Life Happened is a curious book. Definitely has an unexpected plot twist. My issue with the story wasn’t the plot twist and the 2 men. It was her relationship with her sister and mother—her sister’s betrayal and her mom’s “you need to accept and move on.” They all needed massive amounts of therapy to get past that train wreck of dysfunction.
Emotional vs physical cheating… for me I could never have a physical relationship without at least being emotionally in lust.. and please note and underline lust.
And yes.. I think you can be emotionally in lust with another person… like Phil he doesn’t necessarily treat Kim like a prostitute.. (complete agreement with Tracie… a convenience… it could be any other woman pretty and willing enough)
he admires her at some point and respect her.. but totally different level of feelings he has for Lina… kind of infatuated maybe… fleeting feelings that’s it… like Lina and Nick.. she is emotionally in lust with him (also physically too haha).. but not in love..
So for the hubby in the desperate wife it’s more about him emotionally in lust and him not wanting to be wrong about following his lust… (deluding himself that it is love) but I wasn’t really rooting for them to get together… I really hated the husband at a point… but with Phil and Lina from the moment the phone scene between Phil and Kim that Lina overheard I was totally rooting for both of them to get together.. and I actually hated both Kim and Nick for getting in the middle of things hahaha…
So will I forgive cheating? I think it really depends on the grovelling (hahaha) and how much we want the marriage and love to be salvaged… if your partner is in love with another and not in love with you anymore.. would there be anything to save (or even forgive)?
I love you J-Girl….I would say convenient Physical sex more than calculated. Those text messages are the onesKim wanted Lina to see and remember how cold and almost demanding they were…Apartment, got an hour…etc…Now if Phil would of said “baby I miss you need to be inside of you. I have an hour, please meet me sweetheart….Then you got a problem…That is emotional and feelings have come part of the fore play. Phil couldn’t conger up those feelings for Kim, because even though he and Lina were feeling a bit numb toward each other, his heart belonged to Lina.
Ok. I know Ms T. You told me a dozen times and I questioned and wavered dozen more. It still bothers me-that chapter. Phil likes to be in control but he trusted Kim enough to take care of the protection side and lusted after her for the 4 months. I would have an easier time if he sought out 5 in rotation and didn’t sleep the whole night with Kim. Like after a few rounds send her back to her room. I would have liked that. anyway you still on the fence about full custody? I think about 3-4 weeks left before our sticky hands are on SN. Are you a bit better today vs yesterday? I got new vitamjn for my joints and thought of you this am
I feel better everyday J….They have me on so many meds for the first 30 days it ridiculous. I’ve slept most of the day to day. I can understand the 5 in rotation Lol…Phil had never done anything like this before and she was making herself so convenient he stayed with what he had…I bet the picture scene explains a lot to us about the overnight sleeps, etc…I just remember when Phil was telling Lina about the affair and Lina asked if he loved her and Phil said “No God No”……Ugh I just can’t wait to read SN….
That’s a really good point. Phil has never done this before. That was spot on.
Ok yes sleep is the best meds. 30 is 20 more than I take. I literally have to stuff my stomach before I take my dailies so I can’t imagine what you have to eat before yours. I like sweet potato or chestnuts in the morning. It keeps the pills down(Incase you are tired of toast)
Kbabe I believe Phil treated her like he would any other woman. with respect and charm…However, the breakup scene showed me that she took liberties in the office and he allowed it, because she would give him a blow job and a piece of ass. Phil could of cared less if Kim fell off the planet. She was a convenience he selfishly enjoyed, until he really took the time to look at Lina in Chapter 1 and realized how much he loved and appreciated his wife..The breakup scene also showed me his immediate regret….
What I’m getting at is that, we can say we can forgive physical cheating but emotional cheating is harder to forgive. But, really, I think that’s because we can understand an emotional affair, but don’t want to. We are romantics. We believe in the universe bringing people together, love at first sight, meant to be. To not “accept” an emotional affair is actually contradictory to what we believe in romance. It’s not impossible that the universe could’ve got it wrong and soulmates are found outside a marriage. But we are (mostly) married women- that idea is hard to stomach.
So, Tara, I think you’re right, emotional cheating is easier to understand.
I’m just trying to upset everyone with this, clearly. I love when books make me ponder.
What this means for me in real life, I have no idea. I certainly hope to never find out.
Ok so I have a question Katie that makes Tracie and Laura mad. When Phil was texting Kim at nights about planned encounters the following day, he was just thinking about sex and not Kim in particular? So that’s not emotional cheating but just calculated physical cheating? You’re making me confused again. Emotional cheating is easier to understand yet harder to forgive?
Ok so this is how I see it. Physical cheating is harder for me to understand- it seems so deliberate (what? Your dick got hard, your pants fell off, she did a somersault and hit the bullseye?)-but it’s easier to forgive. No emotions. Emotions are scary.
Emotional cheating is opposite. Easier to understand- attraction and love are involuntary. But much harder to forgive. Emotions are scary.
Probably opposite for men.
There’s a spectrum of cheating. Purely physical cheating is sleeping with prostitutes. Phil wasn’t doing that. An emotional affair is falling in love. There’s a lot in between.
I think any affection between Phil and Kim was just par for the course of a workplace affair. Phil isn’t a monster, Kim isn’t a prostitute. He had to keep her sweet because he wanted to keep banging her. He’s charming. He respected her as a person and as an attorney. I’m sure there was flirting, touching…obvious premeditation. But it wasn’t ever love or anything close to that.
I absolutely do not think Phil stayed awake at night thinking, “shit, I’m falling for this girl.” But I DO think he sat awake at night thinking, “shit, is really like to drown my sarrows in her wet pussy.” The texts and preplanned meetings were born from the latter thought process.
Katie, I love this post. It’s been repeatedly said it was just sex for Phil, but I don’t completely buy this. Once or twice would be just sex, but planning made it a relationship, a sexual one, not remotely about love, but definitely a relationship. He wasn’t in love, but he was certainly in lust and he must have liked her to spend 4 months having sex with her.
I’m taking your question within the context of a “cheating” story and not real life.
In real life I’m not sure I would forgive emotional or just physical cheating. But, within the context of a story, I find emotional cheating easier to understand and easier to forgive. It’s logical to me that if a man thinks he’s fallen in love with another woman, he’s going to move into a sexual relationship. If then he realizes “yikes I’ve made a huge mistake, I need to fix this,” then I hope the author can provide a believable redemption. I think A Perfect Marriage is a good example of this.
I have a harder time understanding physical cheating with no emotional involvement. Somethings not working at home, so he takes his toys elsewhere to play? He hasn’t fallen out of love with his wife and he’s not fallen in love with the other women. He loves his wife but is willing to risk everything for sex? It’s not logical, but again like in an emotionally involved cheating, I want the author to bring me through the situation and believe forgiveness and trust is possible.
So saying this, I don’t think one is easier to forgive than the other, I just think emotionally involved cheating is easier to understand.
Hi Deighj. I was referring to the covers only. I have a perfect marriage but haven’t started yet. I think I got it after you and Ann recommmeded. I did read some bad reviews how the husband has sex with the wife becasue he was turned on by the mistress. I don’t mind it the other way around but I didn’t like this part.
Ah Katie I agree with Tracie in that a physical relationship is far easier to forgive than an emotional affair.
What if your husband chose to move out rather than give up the OW how would you feel? A man would have to feel strongly for the OW to destroy his family.
What if your husband had an affair but given an ultimatum broke it off. On the first one I’d find a ball busting lawyer the next next day and have all bank accounts locked after drawing money for my needs. The second one I ‘d always be watching him, serious couples therapy would ensue.
Lordy but that book still makes me mad every time I read it. And the fact she let her children stay weekends with the husband and OW? I’d have gone to court for day visitation only without the OW being around my children. Have you gotten to the scene where the wife runs into the husband and OW in town yet, the way he treated his wife? Shoo I get white hot about that book. Sorry how disjointed my comments are but I’m pissed all over again
J what are your thoughts on this book? I think you’ve read it?
Shoot. I forgot about the girls staying with the husband and OW. I just remember the hate when the wife saw them at the restaurant and then later bumping into them while holding hands. The OW was not evil like Kim though and the guy was nothing like Phil.
Hey all. The book is legit nice. I have a hardback of cold mountain by Charles Frazier and it looks similiar to that at first glance. I love it.
Tracie and Tara, I read your last posts. Both are hard to answer and Kbabe’s thoughts are even harder for me. I can’t see Laura punishing Phil forever as his penance. I think dealing with the nutso for 3 years was enough of a punishment no? Kim out of the picture may be a neat ending but I honestly cannot see Hunters being happy with Kim in the picture so I came up with that scenario. Can they shrug Kim off by saying, oh theres that psycho going off on her rants again? Kim can’t be handled with nonchalance because what she was to Phil(even if she was only a distraction) and because she wants to destroy their marriage. That’s why I want her gone. If I were Lina, I wouldn’t want to see Kim’s face ever again. Since Lina is a better person than I, maybe she can look the other way for Liam.
Tracie, Lina doesn’t need to explain herself to Kim. Kim doesn’t hear anything if Lina’s doing the talking. She will never understand why Phil chose Lina over her because it’s not in her to understand that. I say she will have to lose interest in Phil in order for her to let go of her obsession. I was never obsessed with a person but I tend to obsess over things or ideas and its’ like hear no evil see no evil. I can only imagine Kim’s level of obsession with Phil.
Katie, emotions are rooted and physical cheating is fleeting.
What choice do they have? Like it or not she’s there, on some level she will always be there, no matter the custody situation. Reality is she’s Liam’s mother, you can’t get away from that. And, that’s what I mean by she’s his penance. They will love Liam as much as their other 3 children but Phil will always regret that Liam isn’t Lina’s and that’s his penance.
So, as a Catholic Phil should understand that penance is ultimately about forgiveness. He brought Kim into there lives and will deal with her as long as necessary to protect his family and by doing this he deserves forgiveness.
Yes but she’s not a normal OW. If she wasn’t set on destroying Phil and lina’s marriage I would say the same. Deal with your repercussions. But Kim isn’t normal. she’s obsessed with Phil and wants to destroy his marriage. How can she stay in the novel if she doesn’t let Phil go? With Kim it’s about winning… how do you see it end?
Kim’s a narcissist, everything is about her, but is she bunny boiling crazy? Maybe, but I don’t think so. I have no idea where Laura’s taking the story, but I believe “realistic” has been used to describe it. So, I don’t know how realistic is it to believe Kim will be gone for good? I like to think she’ll move on to another man she considers bigger and better and walk away from Liam and the Hunters.
Short of killing her off, what would keep her away for good?
Oh that’s what I said no? When I say gone I don’t mean dying.
So here’s a think question.
I was traumatized by unknowingly starting a book about a kinky fetish I’m not into, and I needed a palate cleanser…so I picked a good ol’ clean cheating book. The Desperate Wife (formerly Torn Up Marriage). I’m not done but I know from spoilers how it ends, and now I’m thinking about it.
So in this one the guy has an affair with his secretary and falls in love with her. The wife gives him an ultimatum to dump the mistress/stay or leave forever, and he goes to live with his mistress. Change of heart, he comes home, I think.
Now, we always talk about “degrees” of infidelity. Such as, a purely physical one-night stand is better than a longer term physical relationship is more forgivable than a “dating” affair, and falling in love with a mistress is not redeemable.
Why exactly is opening his pants worse than opening his heart, if he comes back to his family in both cases?
Right. But if the husband comes around in both cases, declaring he made a huge mistake, why is one harder to forgive? Universally it seems women are more likely to forgive fucking versus falling for another woman. I want to know the deeper reason why.
An emotional affair for me, would drag me down…That’s when I would wonder if he’s thinking about her, does he love her or does he want to protect her, etc….Physically I can do anything she can do sexually we have the same parta, but I can’t make his heart love or need me…
btw, I liked that book. I thought the husband was redeemable even though I hated him more than 60% of the book.
What do you mean deeper reason why people forgive? If you can’t live without them you have to forgive. gawd. I’ll kill him first. lol
I’m not going to make sense but I’ll try. Physical cheating is biological. “Must mate” in my best ape voice. So, easier to forgive. Even though it’s so much more complicated (you know, things like loyalty, fucking self-control). But ok, let’s simplify for this discussion.
But, love, now that’s scary and unpredictable. We are romantics- we believe love at first sight is real, love makes you do crazy things, love is powerful. Love can make a man leave his family. So anything even closeiy resembling love or any kind of affection makes us less forgiving.
Janet, I like The Desperate Wife too. I like being in his head, particularly on Christmas morning when Michael realized he was trying to save the wrong relationship and was split from Sophie that night.
Katie and Tracie,
The emotion versus distraction thing… distraction really pisses me off, things get tough so instead of working at fixing it, he goes elsewhere for sex—not good enough reason to cheat.
I find the emotional attachment more acceptable reason for cheating, not that it’s right. Love and lust seem to go hand in hand in emotional attachment stories, and when he realizes it really isn’t love and wants to fix what’s was broken it seems more forgivable for me.
Having said that in real life I can’t see myself forgiving a cheater. But, when an author gets it right, I can and want to believe in the HEA.
Katie, Phil is an animal is what I got out of your comment. Lol
I’m so glad she is getting to stay…I love doing things with my daughter…You girls have fun…Do you have a big New Years Planned?
No I’m home bound for three weeks on the walker and home health says I can’t leave the house except for doctors appointments or insurance doesn’t pay them. I still fatigue pretty easily and my leg is still sore and swollen. I’ll try to make up for it next year….Eat and be Merry that is what the holidays are for…Lol….
I just started the discussion thread. Thank you all for your wonderful reviews!
You girls write beautiful reviews… I’m just over here like, “she’s the bassssst, read her books!” ?
Hey you gave us all Phil pictures, etc. You rock Katie!
Thank you thank you. I’m working on the photo board for Swimming Naked today.
I’m totally impressed with people who review professionally. Writing one on my kindle is frustrating and I always feel terrible when I dont like a book. It takes me forever to find something nice to say to try and make it better.
???
Katie, do you need my review to go to amazon? I never review there. Can I just say 5 stars, review on goodreads? It’s mainly to let people view SN with high reviews?
Up to you. I think 25 is the Magic review number on amazon that puts a book on various recommended reading lists.
I think amazon is the most important place for reviews just cause it’ll show up more often like Katie said. I had to review through my coworker’s account because amazon apparently knows I’m connected ?
Ok. Let me try.
Laura, OMG, you outdid yourself. SN was amazing. I won’t talk about it yet, but my Amazon review is posted. I will do goodreads too.
OMG Amazing!!! The review is up and the reread starts in the morning.
So for me, Phil is completely redeemed by the end of chapter 2. Amazing story, completely ready for spoiler thread! On my way to work this morning I cried thinking about Logan.
Ok. I’m finished. When can I spoil it? Laura, you made me cry.
Hi Kayberla, we should leave a review for Laura. I would love to hear your favorite part!
I left my 5 star review on Amazon already. I did not want to forgive Phil but I couldnt help it. Thanksgiving did it for me. Needed tissues after that scene and I was team Phil through to the end. I was sad when it ended. I wasnt ready!
Omgg for me too! I left a review on goodreads and that was the exact same moment I forgave him. How odd! I wanted your thoughts because I completely agreed with your review on WPF here. Now, I really need your TBR list. Lol
Just read your review! Thanksgiving flashback? Maybe we are talking about two thanksgivings. Regardless, loved what you said.
When he is comparing this year to last year and specifically what ruined last year for him? Such a small thing and he mourned the lack and it ruined the day for him. Then to have it back? I was completely satisfied with the way he felt about it. I’m so glad to have had his voice this time around.
I will quite happily go more in depth once those who didnt have all evening to read catch up. Thankfully, my husband understands about my books and wrangled all the kids and dinner.
Oh yes the plate! Ok.
Omg. The plate! ???????? ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Exactly. I wanted to hug him.
Make sure you leave a review! They’re so so important for the algorithm on Amazon.
Mine is up!!
Ladies — a review can be short and sweet — I loved it! works lol
Ladies, I just one clicked!!
Happy reading!!
Laura…I am humbled by the dedication…thank you so very much….I’m sure the other girls are too…Love you sister….
Omg, SN is on Amazon. Just downloaded it!! So excited. Earlier than I expected.
I did too…..It’s here love the cover so much….
as Kayberla stated, SN is officially ours!
Ladies – I pushed the publish button at 9:51 am. The kindle version will be available within the next 72 hours. It usually takes under 24 hours to go live
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support I can’t tell you how much it means to me. And a special shout out to Katie who keeps me sane and does so much more behind the scenes to support me. I love you all
Thanks for your wonderful books Laura. We love you too!! Thanks Katie for everything you did for Laura. Your pinterest boards were awesome too.
I’d like to also shout out to Tracie and Janet for the comic relief!!
Yes — Tracie and Janet are the only reason we are all on this blog talking!
And I neglected to thank Jordan who spent most of her birthday carefully uncovering the 200 or so errors in the manuscript — love you Jordan!!!
200? ?. Happy birthday ?? Jordan! Hope you have a great time in Adirondack. Thank you and Party time for you!
I saida boom chicka boom. I saida boom chicka boom. I said boom chicka rocka chicka rocka chicka
Boom!! Woohoo! ?? ?
and I know Deighj is wondering about the print version — I’m working on that now. Amazon used to provide a service where they formatted both the kindle and print version — they no longer do this, so I’m figuring it out.
Thank you Jordan. You’re awesome like your mom.
Aww schucks. ??
It’s my pleasure, but there are many thanks to be spread around. I’m so glad SN is ready for mass consumption- it’s so special!
A story of true love; I’ve never read anything like it.
Girls, this has been a great time. Laura thank you for putting up with all our questions and antics over the last nine months. Loved your boards Katie, you have a true talent. Janet you are my reason and sunshine you make see past my own tunnel vision (unless it is about Phil)…LOL Jordan you are a doll…thank you for your hard work, and Happy Birthday angel…..Ann and Deighj you girls brought a breath of fresh air to us all….
It’s already up
Good morning ladies!! Countdown to SN! Can’t wait to see how Kim fairs out! Hope she gets her just dues! I hope Phil doesn’t let us down. He sure has some making up to do with Lina.
Have no doubts about my Phil Ann…When he rocks everyone’s world they will see his true colors..,He’s s good man…
And he’s hot as hell!!!
Ladies, where do I find the Lucas Roe thread?
Tara — the very first blog post on my website is the beginning of that story. There is no thread yet.
I’m hoping Natasha drops Kevin or Lucas has the opportunity to kick his ass…..just saying
I’ll go looking for it,
Thank you!
Well, that was yummy ?
It’s tagged with A Sense of Belonging. Are Casey and Tony appearing in it? I’d love a visit!
Well girls I started back to work today, busy morning but I’m doing fine…I was thinking this morning while I was getting dressed, if those ugly ass Frankenstein scars on my thigh, would jeopardize my chances for the swim suit competition of the beauty pageant I’m entered in this Spring…LOL That cracked me up….Just Kidding…..
I find battle scars to be very sexy. Does Phil have any scars? Lol
Oh Tracie that’s good news. Take it easy today. We need you to be the voice of reason for Phil lovers once we all get to read SN. Hopefully you can sway Janet.
Amazing, you’re already back to work. Don’t overdo and show those scars!
How are you feeling, Tracie? Happy to be back to work?
I got fatigued about 3 but pushed on to 4:30…I have to build my strength…I was glad to be back, everyday so go that just gets me closer to retirement…
Good morning!
Update — Unless there is a hitch with Amazon (formatting issue or something), Swimming Naked will go live on Wednesday!
Omg, that is the best news!! I’m sure it will be everything we expect and more!!
When will we be able to talk about it on the blog!!
Beautiful morning here in Maryland Laura!
Ann — as soon as it goes live I’ll start a Swimming Naked discussion thread!
Yes, the snow is beautiful. We received over 10 inches. Chandler loves it!
We got about 6-8 inches here. Oh yes the dogs love it!
OMG—so excited, and it’s not Tuesday. Jordan, thank you for getting the proofreading done so quick!
I’m so excited…that is wonderful. So proud of you Laura, you crossed the finish line and I’m sure it will be a wonderful story and HEA for our Hunter family……
Thanks Tracie?
Best news ever! We have been waiting for this moment for so long. Thank you Laura!!!
Laura you are writing about Lucas aren’t you? All snowy in MD and you are in the zone…Good writing…can’t wait for Lucas either…
Hi Tracie. It’s still snowing. It’s beautiful though.
Can’t wait for the 18th and for you and Janet to feed off each other on SN. I know you love Phil and Janet is iffy! Its going to be so good to hear everyone’s comments.
We do conjure up a buffet at times Ann .Lol. Me and J will put on the feed bucket when it comes out….
Tracie — Lucas is a great H. I forgot how much I had written. Definitely excited to lose myself in this one.
Laura He’s hot isn’t he…Sexy I’m hoping Lucas is a cross between Phil and Tony…I didn’t say Joseph because he snatched that damn phone…Joseph would of posed for the picture…Lol
Hey everybody. I have a non SN related question too. I apologize in advance for using this blog to gather info but I need recommendation on some decent tasting protein powders. Plant based is preferred. Bought garden of life brand and it’s not good. I’ve gained so much weight since November and can’t seem to lose the extra blubber. Any thoughts?
Did you try the chocolate or peanut butter garden of life? My friend loves it.
I use Nutiva hemp protein. Do you have a Choice Juicery by you? I’ve successfully copied their Superhero smoothie. Hemp protein, almond milk, sprouted almonds (soaked almonds), banana, dash of cinnamon, dates to sweeten. So good! Carries me through breakfast and lunch.
I have chocolate. But it’s Goopier than I remember. I will look for nutiva! I don’t have choice juicery near me. But it’s similar to what I get here. The thing is I gain weight with that one bc it tastes too good. Thank you!!
Girls eat a piece of meat…bam protein
Hello Ladies!!!
Janet I use Vegan One coconut almond and I love it, vanilla chai is also good. The trick for a good smoothie is to use a good protein flavor that you really like… Then you can add kale or different veggies or something with nutritional value. Good luck ?
Thank you Linda! I see this one all the time but never tried. I’ll look for it now with Katie’s rec’s.
Looking forward to Phil’s redemption? You, Debs, and I were hard on Phil in WPF. Lol. I EXPECT you all to put your reviews here so we can compare “notes.” Missed you!
Thanks you’re so sweet ?….Reading WPF again, I’m trying to be more objective with Phil LOL. This week will be a long one… Friday SN, “so excited ” and Saturday I have tickets to see Hamilton, Lin Manuel Miranda is in PR and I admire him so much ??
Yep looking forward to Phil’s redemption ?
Linda — How awesome for you! I would have love to see it with him!
Wow! You are so lucky to see it with him!! Lucky ducky!!
Laura…. A very exciting week thanks to you and Lin Manuel ?
Any news about your friend adventure with the wild life? I went this past summer to Yellowstone and a couple of National Parks, so beautiful, a humbling experience!! I hope your friend have a wonderful time.
Linda — love the Yellow Stone, Glacier and all the National Parks! My friend is on the last quarter of her hike. She has hiked over 1,600 miles — crazy!
Totally random question- what are your favorite brands for intimates?
Hello! Fun question but boring answer from me. I wear tanks/ camisoles with everything. Love long Vince tanks and gap hipsters. Hanro when they go on sale. I bet you all wear thongs. Lol
Is SN over 400 pages?
No thongs for me. They’re uncomfortable, so, if I did wear them, they’d be for my hubby, and he doesn’t care what my undies look like as long as they are coming off.
I like camis, bralettes, and hipsters too. Hanky Panky.
I need new intimates, so I thought I’d change it up if someone has like the “best underwear in the world” that they recommend.
Janet — I don’t know how many pages it is as a book. I won’t know until it’s published. I do know that it is 6,000 words longer that WPF.
Ones big enough to paint a mural on Lol….
Come on SN….January 18 should be a National Holiday…That’s right!
So funny!! Me too! Waaah
Good morning girls. Snowy day here in Maryland. I’m going back through WPF so I’m absolutely ready for SN.
Laura any additional news on SN progress?
The snow is beautiful!
Unless something unforeseen happens, I will be releasing SN on January 18th!
I’ve also decided my next novel with be Lucas Roe! I already have the first 100 pages done and I like it!
Good news because I loved the first chapter of Lucas Roe and OMG the 18th can’t get here fast enough! I miss Phil!
ooommmgggg!!! Woohoo!!!!! I Loved the first chapter of Lucas. So exciting!! Is he friends with any Prossis or the Hunters?
Excited about Lucas too…hope the little lady gives him a run for his money, since he snatched that dang phone out of her hand…Lol
Do you hate me that I’ve read it? Like it’s in my hands, I can go to any scene at any time…pictures, running group, and a lot of sex.
Honest opinion here. Do you think the Phil haters will be satisfied?
Tell your husband that me and our Ravens are hoping that the Chargers kick the Patriots asses!!
I really do!
That’s good to hear!
Chargers are already getting their asses handed to them…
I liked Phil at the end of WPF, so it’s hard to know what I’d think if I hated him going into SN. But I know Laura had a few Phil haters read it, and…
Awesome….
Oh that’s great!
Hi Girls is this the quiet before the storm…I’m sure Jordan is moving along with the proofing…I’m having trouble reading any new novels…until I can completely absorb SN and discuss with all my girls……Anything new Laura? How’s the weather in MD?
Hi!
Snowing in Maryland! I was thinking of reading tonight. Jordan told me she’d have the novel back to me by Monday. I’m anxiously awaiting.
Miss everyone! It’s been quiet today.
After all this time, I figured out how to make the blog show the latest comment on top! no more having to scroll down. Sorry it took so long
Oh my gosh, please edit fast. I just finished the last book in my queue!
Anyone reading anything good? Doesn’t have to be romance. lol.
Read –
About The Night by Anat Talshir — I’d love to discuss it!
Thanks Jordan, almost time for our happy dance yall!
I salute you Jordan!
Katie how lucky for you. Is there enough redemption for Phil??? Lol
Yes! If I didn’t want to climb him already I definitely would now. And Liam is the best.
I offered my second-born child to be able to read it.
I’m 40 pages into the final edit! I’m making myself read slowly so I don’t miss anything, but I should be done by this time tomorrow. Can’t wait for everyone to read it!
Thank you Jordan…Can’t wait for the Swim….
Laura has a great talent…Can’t wait to read all she has to offer…Girls get ready for our deep dive into SN!
I’ve read SN. It’s everything and so much more!!
Laura is a writer for life- we’ll have plenty to talk about.
Morning girls, we’re almost at the finish line now, our waiting over. It can’t get here soon enough for me.
Laura I told several gals about the sequel and want to let them know exactly when it will be available for download. I told them end of January but it sounds as though you’ll be publishing mid month. I promised them all questions would be answered so they’re anxious as well.
Hope you’re enjoying some down time now. Will you be taking some time off, deciding which book will be next or switching between future books? I’m wondering what will happen to the blog once we’ve dissected SN to our heart’s content. Do not want to lose touch with all of you on here.
Deighj — I will stay on here as long as the rest of you! As far as what’s next. I haven’t decided. I can’t let myself until SN is published. Once I start the next one, I won’t care about anything else.
I’m so excited ?….It’s hard to read other books thinking about SN…Come on you proofreaders, put us out of our misery!
Morning ladies. Oh I’m so happy! It’s coming to us soon. Can’t wait to revisit my favorite family. I hope Phil shows us just how much this whole affair affected him, as well as his family. I’m Team Phil, but I need more! LOL
Tracie and Janet, I bet you can’t contain yourselves!!
Agree that we need rules, so no one leaks anything onto this blog.
O
M
F
G!
You crack me up. Lol. Me too omfg!
I can not wait!!
I can’t wait to talk about Kim. I’m so obsessed with her. Bit worrisome.
We are going to have to have rules on this blog once the book comes out…we can’t post any spoilers on this blog until we’ve all had a chance to read it…So what, two days after it comes out and we have a chance to read it, then Laura can start a new thread for our after the swim discussion? What do you girls think?
Yes, I’ll start an after Swim discussion. We can start it right away. Readers will be warned not to open thread unless they’ve finished
Sounds wonderful…Thank you Laura
Laura after we have time to read will you start a new thread for after the swim? Girls I can’t wait to read SN but I look so forward to our discussions. I’m guessing Team Phil will be so full after we all read the book, we can have our own yearly reunion Lol….
I cannot wait! I wonder if Laura put any of Katie’s and my outfit ideas on SN. lol
If she did they will be well dressed my Salt….
Still need to do this! But the end is close. Final proofread is underway! Swimming Naked is officially my longest novel!
I’m so excited…Janet we got our wish it’s going to be longer than WPF…Bring in my Phil…Lol
Laura, I see you already posted your status above. That’s great news. It’s finally coming to an end. I miss Phil and Lina. Can’t wait for more.
Tara, we took our girls up to Cooperstown and then through Niagra Falls. Such beautiful country.
Laura, what’s the status of SN?
Good Morning Girls, would love to head to Upstate NY…When I retire seeing the US will be a treat for me. My husband tells me he’ll go anywhere I want to go as long as he is back home by dinner….Lol…He is retired military and has been all over the world, so he likes his home base…
I’m giddy for our published SN…Can’t wait to have our after the swim discussion with all you girls….
Good morning, girls!
Love upstate New York, Tara – lucky you!
I released the draft of Swimming Naked to some advance readers last night (both Phil lovers and haters). Several pulled all nighters. The reviews are incredibly positive thus far. Good news because it means very few changes! Finally reading a book for pleasure today – one of Tara’s recommendations-loving it
So excited!! Can’t wait for release day. I’m praying it’s not Tuesday, I’ll be stuck in meetings in NYC all day, with 5 hours of driving to and from.
Just curious, what book are you reading?
I love living in upstate New York. Close enough to enjoy the city, but far enough away to enjoy the mountains and valleys.
Definitely not Tuesday!
I’m reading Act Your Age — I’m only 20 percent in, but she is definitely a talented writer. She brings the characters to life for me. I wish I had it in Word so I could change out the word ‘daddy’ for ‘stud’ of something like that LOL.
My daughter lives and works in NYC — she’s going up to Lake Placid for the weekend for a break.I think she is going to be very cold. She is my final proof reader — great at catching typos — so she will start on it Monday and as soon as she finishes it will go final!
Daddy! LOL. Not my thing either, I just ignored it.
I love the Adirondacks. They’re expecting snow today. I hope she has a great time. If she’s ever up there in the summer or fall, There are 2 museums we love: The Adirondack Experience in Blue Mountain Lake and The Wild Center in Tupper Lake. The Wild Center has great walking paths. Both have amazing views.
What do you think of Act Your Age? She’s a fun, quirky heroine.
Tara that is so cool. New York state is beautiful too.
Ann, I’ve been to Annapolis and after reading your and Laura’s comments I’d love to go back. I have a colleague whose sons live and work in the DC area; she and her husband took a year trying to decide where they would retire—they fell in love with Annapolis and will be moving soon.
Ann, I live fairly close to Bethel where the original Woodstock concert took place. I agree she would have fit in amazingly there, who knows maybe she was there ?. I’m not far from the actual Village of Woodstock too and she’d fit right in there today! It’s a funky little town that I love visiting. If you’re ever in the Catskills, the Museum at Bethel Woods is AMAZING. At the end of the guided tour there’s a 30 minute documentary, getting to see Santana’s performance is worth the cost of admissions. He had a 17 year old drummer that was beyond fantastic.
Girls Alice reminded me so much of my mom it was crazy…She would of been pissed at Phil, but she would of told me not to give up on him because we had to much history and children….I would of got that hug Deighj…he would of got a tongue lashing, but she would of loved Liam and pointed out all of Phil’s good qualities and loved him like she always had because he was redeemable… She wasn’t so forgiving to my first husband the second time he cheated…In fact I can remember her exact words when I told her…she said “that SOB will be lucky if he draws another breathe once he’s within arms reach.” Lol. Bring on SN, I need to see my Phil in action!
Me too Tracie!!
I’d also like to remind everyone that Alice wasn’t nearly as forgiving to Julian (Shiloh’s husband).
Alice was one of my favorites. She was truly a free spirit. I envision her at Woodstock with flowers in her hair, dancing around. Maybe smoking some stuff too. LOL. I know she was frustrating to Lina because she just couldn’t hate Phil for that affair. Remember she even said that Phil was a good looking and a virile man and couldn’t believe it didn’t happen sooner. I can see where Lina would be upset. Lina was always more conservative than her mom.
Phil, I miss you buddy. Bring on SN soon!!!
About Alice, I did come to like her further into the story. I just wanted her to hug Lina, emphasizing with her while pointing out that the strongest people make terrible mistakes but that didn’t mean Phil didn’t love her and their life together. I wanted empathy not sympathy.
Then I thought about my mother and the once a month trips to see her ‘advisor.’ In my late teens, at the urging of a friend, I saw an older lady who gave me a reading in her living room drinking tea. That lady let me know the path I was on was not a good one. She also gave me the name of a person in my life that was going to have a life threatening illness. That prediction came true several weeks later and I was left dumbfounded. Once I recalled that Alice reminded me of my mother I understood her character and could relate to her mindset. I do believe some people have extrasensory abilities.
The above is TMI just wanted to clarify my earlier comment about Alice.
Woke up bleary eyed this morning, took several cups before they stayed open. Thanks J.
I read Not Quite a Husband when it first came out. I don’t remember the details just that it was a good one. I’ve also read the rest of the books mentioned and enjoyed. Has anyone read Tear Stained Beaches by Courtney Giardina?
Rambling here so I’m off to make another pot of coffee. Again thanks to our lovely J.
Yes I read tear stained beaches!
Good? Bad? Worth reading?
no HEA with the guy. It was good enough- short read
Hi Ladies!
As far as Alice is concerned — love her or hate her she is the most authentic character in the story. She is based on my mother and that is exactly how she would react.
Update on SN – two more scenes to write, four tweaks and it’s a wrap.
Unless my beta readers hate it, it should be published next week!
First… happy dancing. Can’t wait for next week!
Funny, I was never put off by Alice’s reaction. It fit her personality and you know she loves Phil. There’s a 25 year relationship there too. And, she believed they were destined to be together. Didn’t love Diane’s reaction. Even if she thought Lina should forgive and move on, she could have held Lina’s hand and called him a rat bastard. And, then like Adele’s eventually move into the ‘your miserable and not moving on, you might as well take him back’ phase.
Thank you Laura!! Lucky beta readers!! I love Alice!!
So lucky!!!
I loved Alice- that’s how my mom would’ve reacted. I thought Diane could’ve been more sympathetic, but, if I had a friend in Lina’s position who wanted to stay married, I might act the same. Who knows how we would really act as any of these characters in a real-life scenario. 25-years married and with kids…not a black and white situation
Deb—I read bounce last night. It was quite good! Thanks for the recommendation.
Hi Tara, no probs, glad you liked it. I’ve been reading quite a lot of that general theme and thought it was one of the few where the husband was mostly redeemable! But maybe that’s cos he didn’t impregnate his mistress!
Redeemable—lol. Please don’t go there, it sets people off ?
I really liked Bree, she needed to find balance in her life, and the supporting characters were great. Did you read the sequel? It didn’t really catch my attention.
Haha yes, “redeemable” is definitely a matter of personal opinion ☺️
Yeah I thought Bree was a great character – my fave scene was when she punched her hubby in the face, which is kinda bad but I couldn’t help but internally cheer her on when she did that.
Yes read the sequel and liked it, but not as much as the first book.
Amanda Prowse’s “My Husband’s Wife” is another great read.
I read this too while back. We never found out how long the guy was having an affair.
Hi Janet, yeah there were definitely unanswered questions in regards to the affair in “Bounce” but strangely enough I felt less anxious to know the gory details as much as I did in WPF. Not sure why that is. Maybe it’s because the husband confessed of his own violition whereas Phil only confessed because he was backed into a corner due to the pregnancy.
Whoops meant volition.
J I’m On my way to bed but couldn’t resist one last peek. And here I am caught up in one of my favorite places to be!
I thought you didn’t like historicals or do you like gothic historicals only? I read a lot of both but it’s more of an on/off thing with me. We’ve all been in a slump since WPF but we keep trying.
That cheating question is a hard one J. I would have to have answers to
a lot of questions that we asked on here about Phil. Why didn’t she address the issues with her husband/boyfriend and let them know the critical state of the relationship to begin with. There is no soft line with me. You have to give your last best effort and if the issues can’t be resolved then separate. Even if separated when found dating another that would constitute a betrayal if not given a heads up. Oh Lordy now I’m gonna spend hours thinking about that question. After that long ass answer the short answer is I wouldn’t betray my friend but I would avoid her significant other. Sorry J, I went overboard on my answer but I get hot about cheating.
I know that about you deighj. I don’t have the guts to confront and couldn’t betray my friend either.
I mainly read historicals until few years back when I discovered New adult. Have you tried sherry Thomas’ Not Quite A Husband?
Not Just a Husband—excellent book. And has anyone read Laura Lee Gurhke’s The Marriage Bed?
I read it long ago in paperback. I can’t remember now but I think I kept it somewhere. Is it worth looking for it?
So sorry about your BIL.
My BIL’s first wife cheated on him, we all knew it was going on, my husband and MIL both talked to him and he didn’t believe it until the wife asked him to leave.
A friend’s brother had an affair and his wife and the OW had a subtle online Facebook fight that went on for months. If you knew the people involved you could read between the lines. It was quite weird. They’re still married and seem very happy. Proof, I guess, that you can come through cheating!
a random question too. If you found out your friend was cheating on her husband or boyfriend, would you tell their spouse? I’m afraid I wouldn’t….
Tough question. I’d probably confront the spouse first. You’d have to be ready to lose a friend in case they were too upset that you knew.
No way! I told a friend once her husband was cheating and it didn’t go over very well for me. This would be even worse. People know — they just bury their heads in the sand
I haven’t been in this situation. But I have been in the situation of knowing the husband was cheating and being friendly acquaintences with the wife. We sat together at a wedding and she was telling me how her family didn’t like her husband, and then she goes “at least he doesn’t cheat.” I wanted to die, but I just screamed at myself silently, “not my place, not my place.”
I agree, most spouses have a feeling, ang don’t want to face it.
Kayberla I agree that no one had Lina’s back except her sister. It made it difficult for me to like Alice. Her best ‘friend’ Diane wanted her to ‘get over it.’ She damn well wouldn’t be a friend of mine after that. I would have loved the same happening to Diane.
Katie I love tattoos, on other people. If done by a skilled technician they’re beautiful. Will your’s have color?
Probably only in a flower or bow in our hair. Black and grey otherwise.
Hey J, no my address was correct, input several times. I couldn’t figure out so finally contacted Laura. I’ve been cooking and freezing dishes just to take up time and expend energy. Just finished making/freezing date balls that are so so good. Great on a hot summer day, when it finally gets here.
In the discussion about the running group, there is nothing stated in WPF other than he’d joined the group? I took it as he and Kim decided to join together. And that thought has me riled up. Again. I wonder if Megan found out that he stopped running with her so he could run with Kim? I’d love to see that scene. Realistically though both Lina and Phil would protect her from that.
I found a book of 4 novellas by Willow Winters ‘Don’t Let Go.’ Other than this book they’re no longer available. Just started the first one and it has the feeling of a Daphne du Maurier book. Good so far.
I love the back and forth between y’all. I read about Phil with Kim and I get ‘het up’ (in the older sense). Then read the replies and I’m back down again. You gals are taking me on a roller coaster ride and I’m lovin’ every bit of it. Do miss the funnel cake though.
So Deighj, you should contact laura more often so you don’t have problems. You know I depend on you! Laura never mentioned about running group. Everything here is just hypotheticals. I Love dates. so good.
funny, I recently read Rebecca with my kids. You know my love for gothic romance. lol
Random question girls. What do you think of tattoos?
No judgment either way. My husband has sleeves. I think they’re hot on (the right) men in real life and on some book boyfriends too. Not on Laura’s heroes though.
I’m about to get one to symbolize my daughter and me. Mother-daughter mermaids.
I don’t mind tattoos. I don’t have any but my son does.
I’m okay with tattoos. but I can totally see you with one Kbabe and mermaids are so cool. My sister is going through mid life crisis and she wants one too. She already has a tramp stamp on her back from way back when. lol
Tattoos are smokin hot.
You know what I dont get? Lina’s friends and family. She has ONE person that is pissed for her. Everyone else just tells her to get over it. I would hope my friends would at least be speechless for a few minutes if I had photos of my husband with another woman. Even if they didnt volunteer to commit murder, I’d hope theyd at least be shocked.
Hi Kayberla, I think Diane was projecting her feelings and her views onto Lina. She came off to me as a person who has never worked and is financially dependent on her husband. Isn’t she also a generation older than Lina? Diane’s life revolves around her family and Lina is part of it. She didn’t want her family broken up. I think if Diane’s husband ever cheated on her, she would forgive. What do you think?
What can I say about Alice other than she is Alice.
I didnt think Diane was that much older. Maybe a decade? Or maybe I made that up in my head. I kid you not, my sister would be at my house with a shovel and a handful of people to be my alibi, in a heart beat if something like this happened. I just cant get over how there wasnt even a pause for shock. It was like no one wanted to admit it had happened. And they wanted her to ignore it too. It’s not like it was a one night stand. Theres a freaking baby coming!
Sorry. You are right. Diane is a few years older. I must have confused her with alice’s age.
Ladies, “Bounce” by KM Jackson is a great read on the cheating spouse theme. Really liked the wife in this book and it felt realistic. And yes, it does have a HEA eventually.
Eagerly awaiting your news on the SN release Laura!!!
The things that piss me off about Phil’s behavior with Kim:
1. He continued in the Baltimore running group with Kim rather than run with his daughter Megan at home. Emily thought Kim and Phil were an item! So, they must have put off some vibes in front of Emily.
2. He was so caught up in the sex that he trusted her being on the pill, when he should have worn the condom! End of story.
3. Steamboat vacation house.
4. Affair continued for 4 months.
I truly know that Phil loves Lina, but it’s hard to forgive him with Kim. However, Lina has forgiven him, so I guess I should too.
Bring on SN!!
I’m kind of staying mum on todays discussion, I think I voiced enough opinions last week ?.
But, I will expand on your #4 not only did it go on for 4 months, he rearranged his life to do it—it wasn’t unplanned quickies! And yuck to #2, did sexually transmitted diseases never enter his thoughts!
Tara, I always go back and forth on Phil. I see both sides. I still get fired up when I think of what he did, but I do see his vulnerable side. I think we will be satisfied with him in SN. He was always very good to Lina throughout their 25 years and then he slipped up. I think he deserves a second chance as much as I get pissed off at him.
You don’t think Kim was as picky about her lovers? She thinks so highly of herself. I actually think the no condom is very much in line with Phil’s selfish character. I’m pretty sure she got tested or lied to Phil about it and said why do we need this Phil when you hate it and I’m clean. Look at the results. I’m clean and I’m on the pill. Yuck!
Upon further discussion I do think Phil joined the training / running group as an outlet to let off steam without Megan giving him unwanted advice or tattle telling about Katie. After the night with Kim, she became the true outlet and she joined Phil in this group. I do think they may have had quickies before or after running though because he was doing it every single day. It was convenient and the animal did it. Also, Phil wasn’t smiling at Kim for manners. He was caught unawares in the picture and he looked at Kim with lust. That wasn’t autopilot. I don’t want to minimize his transgressions.
I agree with Rebecca’s assessment of Phil. I think he was on autopilot. Like driving home and not remembering the drive. Even people smile at funerals- doesn’t mean they’re happy. I don’t think he was happy, but Kim was stroking his ego and allowing him to blow off some steam, so I’m sure he appreciated her in some way. Not possessive. I’m thinking the guilt started once Lina knew of the affair- Like when Nick’s gf showed up and the running group came up.
Deighj! How come your computer keeps on glitching? Are you putting in the wrong email address? I sometimes do this and my post disappears? Thank God Laura was able to help. Please check in often! You know I look forward to your daily wicked sense of wisdom.
Hi Rebecca. Those are some heavy questions. I don’t think any of us has asked Laura directly if Phil was happy during the affair. I don’t think Phil was happy because of Kim but I do think he did have happy moments with her like we saw in the pictures. Remember his grin as he danced with her and the bar scene where they wore black street clothes and he was grabbing her thigh? I imagined Lina having an argument with Katie that same night while Phil and Kim were at the bar and having to take one of her sleeping pills to go to sleep. It made me so mad!
Laura told us Phil felt guilty but he was able to comparmemtalize this feeling like most men do.
Do you think Phil felt possessive of Kim during the affair? Even if she was just a side piece like Katie said?
Laura did say once that he wouldn’t hate Kim if she wasn’t an evil person. Taking the evil out of this equation would have made WPF a bit simpler.
Thanks for your thoughts Janet!
Thinking of him being possessive of Kim makes my heart hurt. I don’t think he would be (even prior to her being evil). I think Phil is only truly possessive of people he loves. With that said we’ve been told during the affair he liked and respected her so I think he would be slightly caring and concerned for her if anything happened like he would be for anyone he was friends with but I don’t think it rose to the level of possessive.
Ok your answer made me feel good. Thank you!
Ok so happy is a strong word. Lets just agree Phil needed to escape and Kim was his happy place for the 4 months. Smack smack.
I ask about possessive because Phil isn’t a guy who likes to share even his toys. In that book goalie, the guy shared the groupies with other players but I just can’t see Phil being ok with that.
I can definitely see your point. I have a hard time understanding Phil so I may be way off base.
I think that if Kim was flirting or getting physical with someone else it would have actually just ended the affair as it would have disgusted him. But I don’t think it would have enraged him like the thought of sharing Lina.
However, to your point about him not liking to share. I think that would depend on whether or not he ever considered Kim his. I hope the answer to that is he never did so he would never get possessive.
Me thinks you understand Phil pretty darn well. You are absolutely right. He never thought Kim was his and I love your answer that if Kim flirted with a guy he would have been disgusted. So Phil. You have him pegged. Can’t wait to share thoughts with you after we read SN.
Phil would not have been possessive of Kim…She wouldn’t have been with anyone else because she was mesmerized by Phil. Now Lina is a whole different story. I would say Phil was content during the affair because Kim put him back on a pedestal that Lina no longer had him on…
Ok! Let’s just use the word escape. I can’t get too riled up again. I gave up leaving haven for now. Couldn’t focus…
I had a thought this morning of a question I wasn’t sure had been asked/answered. It seems well established from what Laura has said that Phil entered into/continued the purely sexual affair as a distraction and as something he could control when things were out of control/unhappy at home. So clearly being with Kim distracted him. My question is did she make him happy (or at least what he deemed happy) during the time of the affair? In my mind something can easily distract you but not make you happy.
Additionally (and this may have been already asked) did Phil feel guilt during the affair? Maybe not during the act but when he came home to Lina. I know he felt guilt after he told her and likely when he came back to her at the beginning of WPF, but what about before that when he was still entrenched in the affair? I mean it was obviously not enough to stop but I would hope he felt at least some.
Hey Deighj—Saving Grace—in the epilogue the diagnosis doesn’t change, but she’s still alive and going through treatment. It’s such a brutal story, but so worth reading.
Deighj I’ve missed you sugar pop! Glad all is well with you…we’ve talked about the pregnancy before, and we all believe she got pregnant on purpose and after she told Phil she wasn’t always good about taking her pill he probably thought the same…Kim’s such a biotch!
It’s been awhile ladies. I’ve been unable to post for several days, got an error message each time. Thanks ever so much for your help Laura.
I have been reading your posts but feeling so left out.
I do have a question about Kim’s pregnancy, did she deliberately get pregnant, did I miss a comment from Laura, will this issue come up in SN?
Trace happy to hear you’re doing so well. A half mile, wow that’s about what I walk in an entire day.
Tara I posted on the 5th about your booklist, I’ve read all of them but can’t remember if the wife’s health prognosis changed in Saving Grace. Gosh I hope so. Thanks for the GR’s thread, looked every book up on there including ones already read. There is also a good cheating thread on Amazon that I wrote down and lost. Don’t know how to find as I originally picked up in reading a review. If anyone finds that thread please post it.
J love that HELL NO comment about Nick. That’s my little firecracker.
Ann, Laura, Phil and Logan, so sorry about the Ravens. I’ve only gone to one football game and after identifying which team was on either end I got lost because they kept switching ends. Yep I know all about football LOL.
Thank all of you for just being you.
Hi deighj! Thank god you are alive and well!! I thought playing hostess to the mostest for a week did you in. Haha. We have missed you!!
Tracie, there is nothing wrong with having Phil help you concentrate. That scene you just mentioned is so sweet.
Glad you are doing so much better Tracie.
Thanks Ann it’s gets easier everyday…
Thank you Carrie…Did balancing exercises today and I rocked…just saying ?
Girls I’ve concluded I’m a sick individual… I had to balance myself on this big sponge today and close my eyes for a minute, the therapist said concentrate on something soooo, I envisioned Phil leaning in the doorway of his and Lina’s bedroom, still in his slack pants and dress shirt rolled up to his elbows watching Lina and Liam sleeping on the bed together…His thoughts on how very much he loved her…I could of went further but I only had to do it for a minute…Lol
Tracie—you’re amazing, 1/2 mile is amazing!
Thanks Tara
Tracie congratulations on your 1/2 mile!! You will be good as new before you know it!!
I watched part of the Globes. I like Lady Gaga’s natural look from A Star is Born better but she is still pretty. Sandra Oh’s parents were cute.
Katie I’m now hoping the Chargers win. I can’t stand Brady.
I just reread Stinger by Mia Sheridan. I’m in a funk with new stuff right now.
You won’t be for long! Hang in there. Haha.
Loved Anne Hathaway the most. She’s gorgoeus!! And Sandra Oh bowing to her mom and dad. ?♀️. Tear!
See you guys tomorrow!
Wow!! Year around swim team at age 4 is awesome and impressive. My kids take year round swim lessons too but I stopped after thanksgiving. It is so windy now.
Are you guys watching the globes? Lady Gaga looks so pretty!
She can start a pre-comp team next year if she wants. She’s a bit free-spirited- Not sure if team sports will be her thing, but she loves to swim and likes to go, rain or shine.
I’m in a reading rut. Having a hard time finishing them.
My husband’s team won today. Sorry Ann and Laura. ?
Went swimming all afternoon with my daughter. It’s cold and rainy. We are trying to toughen her up for year-round swim team and surfing- that means I suffer too. It was cold!
I like Ann’s scenario. Sweet. And Tracie is right about dessert.
Tom Brady is a pretty boy. Yuck.
I could get on top of coach Mike Vrabel though.
Sounds good to me Ann, then after dinner Lina improved Phil’s mood…Swoon lol
I’m sure Phil and Logan came home from the game upset because of the Ravens lost. Lina had dinner waiting for them to get home and Matt and Katie were at the house too watching the game. Megan is home from school and she’s there or maybe she went to the game with Logan and Phil. Liam is with his evil mother that weekend. The Hunters have a nice family dinner together.
Perfect, Ann and I like Tracie’s added spice
Phil said it his self that he had to make up for lost time…Wowza!
That sounds so nice. I love matt.
Omg Joan Collins? Did you ever watch Dynasty? She was so bitchy. How old do you think she is? Lol
I’m sure Phil would have been at that Ravens playoff game with Logan!
I only mention her because I thought she was dead. I looked her up. think she’s 85. 85 wearing head to toe black leather. Wow. I guess that’s pretty hot. I watched a bit of dynasty. I liked Linda Evans back then.
Phil is such a jock. God bless him. Lol
Phil was definitely at the game and now he’s in a bad mood.
Lol. I do like Phil when he’s a bit cranky.
I bet Phil and Logan are in a bad mood…But the Ravens will be back to fight again next year…..
Janet you are so funny!
I’m immature for my age Ann but he looks like a little rat! Sorry Tom lovers.
I can’t believe you are walking half a mile already. That’s terrific! You went through so much to get here. You can lie down to read SN. Ha
I saw Joan Collins today. I’m pretty sure it was her. She was wearing leather pants. Omg. I thought she was dead. I’m like how old is this lady and how is she alive?
Jesus the Ravens are making me nervous! We’re over our friends house watching the game. I’m going to hit up the wine soon! Go Ravens!!
Can’t wait for SN! Love the Hunters!!
Thanks guys for pulling for the Ravens!
Sorry About those Ravens girls! Ugh!
Yes, Ravens were out coached by the Chargers. I hope the Chargers beat NewEngland.
Any news on Phil?
Did you see him and Logan at the game…Lol
I can’t wait to see what my Phil is up too….Last time I checked the mood Laura was doing the last few scenes and she said the Hunter’s were happy!
Ann we are going to see some serious Phil and Lina swooning in SN…I can’t wait!
Me three! You guys don’t think Phil looks anything like Tom Brady right? Can’t stand him. Puke yuck. I want them to lose so bad.
No way! Tom Brady isn’t my type either
I can’t wait either Tracie. I can’t wait for SN!
How are you feeling Tracie?
Nooooo Tom Brady as little bitty teeth and a lot of gum…..Phil in my mind is pure raw handsome sex on a stick.
I’m walking a half mile, still have a cane for balance, but I really don’t need it…
Awesome Tracie!
GO RAVENS!!
I hope it’s not a nail biter for you Laura!!
And Ann
GO RAVENS!!!
Hope you guys win! Just finished A Place Without You talk about a tear jerker. The H and h spent a lot of time a part finding themselves…wore me out at times.
I was going to ask if anyone had finished this one. Recommend?
I would recommend heavy read though,..It’s takes place in Colorado:
Go ravens! Doing so well.
Is it set inLA or Vegas? Does
The heroine hve multiple partners?
She doesn’t have multiple partners, until he does something stupid…not cheating…
OK. I’ll give it a try. Thanks Tracie. I started Leaving Haven by Kathleen McCleary.
I remember Janet, that’s why I thought Kim could be in some kind of fraud/illegal dealings that would cause her to lose Liam. Her new man maybe not on the total up and up? That’s realistic that shit happens all the time.
Ok. Thank you both. I was going to the dark side again thinking of
Kim’s laugh. Also, Tracie I thought of something. Remember when we were discussing Kim’s sex life without Phil for two years and Laura said “interesting” when we said no way she’s going without. What if there is a guy… I don’t think it’s unrealistic that Kim turns away from Liam. There are absentee moms everywhere. She will hurt Liam in the process but doesn’t that align with Kim’s character? Ah hah! Selfish Witch needs lavish lifestyle and her need for Phil was Kim’s period of temporary insanity.
I would feel so sorry for the next idiot she manages to con into spending time with her.
I’m going to say No! He is going to look like a cross between Phil and Logan….He is going to have all Hunter features….Remember Kim is just a vessel! She’ll accept it, because Lina knows fully loving Phil, means loving Liam….
Phil would never grovel! Now he would be humbled not only by his actions, but by how much Lina actually loves him..That’s why I wanted to see in SN where Phil watches Lina without her knowledge while she is taking care of Liam and Phil oozing love from every pore of his body for her…
I like that word. He would be humbled seeing exactly that. That will be a heart wrenching scene. I wonder if Liam shares any physical similarities with Kim…lord how can she get over it
I think she will just need time to see him as his own person, rather than an extension of the way he was made.
Perfect way of saying this.
I have a question too. Grovel or not to grovel? Do we need the words or are the actions good enough? Lot of readers here want to see Phil groveling and Laura said probably not. Knowing Phil’s character, is it authentic of him to do this? Personally seeing him scared shitless when he thinks of losing Lina is enough for me. Being vulnerable in SN? Holy moly I cannot wait.
I honestly dont think a grovel would feel genuine from Phil. And what could his words possibly mean at this point? I want to see his actions always putting his family above everything and giving Lina the reassurance she needs and the space to work through when the betrayal breaks through her resolve to be forgiving. I want him to be thankful but not someone different. That’s not who Lina fell in love with.
So true. Yay! Kay, did you read the dream snippet? It was so much better than groveling. and phil saying more than “baby please” with a piercing stare can easily be a cliche no?
Laura, do we get to see Phil in court like Tony?
Also, when did Phil propose to Lina? After college?
Dream snippet? I must have missed that, dammit!
That was my scene she sent me prior to my first surgery November 7 ish on the thread…
I have s think question. When SN ends, do you think Kim will still live 2 miles away from the Hunters.
I love asking these questions so Laura can see our answers and have a little entertainment value of her very own. Lol…..
I honestly don’t know the answer to my own question thought you guys might have some thoughts…
Yes Katie. We really appreciate you!
Tracie, no!! No 2 miles. Can you live 2 miles away from Kim? Even if she stops causing trouble she’s done too much damage for anyone in the novel to be immune to her. Doesn’t redemption go hand in hand with justice? Unless Kim shows remorse which it doesn’t seem likely at this point I say she walks away from
Liam and Phil. Imagine bumping into her at the car wash or the grocery store over and over again throughout the years. She moved to MD for Phil. I say she goes back to NYC. Trump towers are there. Ritz and glitter suits her.
I think we all have our own idea of what Phil looks like and even sounds like; however Katie has a good eye and does us all a great service by bringing those thoughts to life.through pictures…Thank you Kbabe….
Yes Katie Phil is hot! Those pictures Janet can’t unsee… are the reason Kim went after Phil!! ??
?
I know. Thank you. I think it’s better for my heart if Phil’s a bit fuzzy in my mind. I can think more objectively.
Janet, can you admit Phil is hot here? https://pin.it/jewt4r5zgkm3zp
Omg! Sweet baby Jesus! Now that’s my version of Phil. Always has been! Thanks Katie!!
Tara, every book you have mentioned I have read with the exception of Emma Darcy. Right after I read WPF last January I got on this kick about cheating husbands and family drama. I just read everything that came up related to WPF. I love The Harlequin books. I started with them years ago and some are timeless. Thanks for the list.
Not a bad Phil 🙂
Here are some links to Goodread lists…
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/27843.romance_with_cheating_unfaithfull_hurtfull_hero
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/74870.Trouble_Marriage_on_the_Rocks_Romance_
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/96084.Angsty_Tear_Jerker_Harlequins
I don’t really use Goodreads correctly, but I do love the lists.
Those are pretty good lists. Standouts for me were The Unwanted Wife, Frayed Silk and The Golden Dynasty. Though that last one is a fantasy and lots of people have issues with some of the beginning content. Kristen Ashley writes heroes I just want to gobble up.
People rarely want to read about cheating wives, but for family drama, True, by Gwendolyn Grace stuck with me.
The Unwanted Wife is wonderful. I’ve read Frayed Silk and True. Though I’ve read a ton of KA books, I have not read her fantasy books.
I like to pick through the lists and find new books. There’s a “cheaters” list with over 400 books and a good chunk are cheating heroines.
I’m so sorry but he looks like a goon there. Again sorry! Big hairy buffoony goon. I like guys who are a bit more refined and don’t have a bulbous nose. Hey, one less woman to fight over Phil. I don’t like pork/ham! Laura you can delete this comment if you like!
Also Jon looks more like a football player than a lacrosse player. I’ve been to many lax games in school and they are not as beefy as Jon. Yuck! Just give me a navy seals model can you?
Laura, we have a problem.
LOL J-Girl is never going to go for the big and lush…Laura we have a problem cracked me up….I could get all over those two pics, especially after what our google search uncovered Lol….
Phil is leaner than Jon — triathletes are cut, but I still like him.
No problem. I’ll just imagine a guy with more hawkish features not a young Walter Matthau. Omg
You mean the google search YOU uncovered and I cannot unsee that. I know Laura told us just in looks but I’ve seen jon in interviews and he’s just so happy. Phil is darker no? Just let him be. I’m the minority
I’ll take credit for that Salt…because it was freaking awesome! Being the minority is what makes you unique and I love it!
Janet — Phil definitely doesn’t have Jon Hamm’s personality. He isn’t nearly as jolly!
So, J, you’re honestly saying his face repulses you so much that you wouldn’t sit on it, if given the opportunity?
Lord! The things you say! I feel violated. Lolol. Not repulse. Just not for me in looks only. Maybe for younger guy Tom hardy in looks. Or Keanu. Again looks only.
That’s not a NO!
I’m not that bad!! We all read dirty romance.
I don’t usually feel too young in this group but you’re succeeding in making me feel that way tonight.
I know. It made me feel old and nostalgic talking about these authors. But hey, we now have our new favorite author in common and she is bridging all our age gaps. So cool!
I cut my romance reading teeth on Harlequins and old Barbara Cartland—OMG I’m dating myself. My grandmother lived with us and these books were all over our house when I was little.
Lol! Yes!! Barbara Cartland. I learned English reading her and hardy boys at the same time. I don’t know why. I’ve read everything Michelle Reid has published at the time it was published but my all time favorite is Anne Stuart. Man I adored her. She did gothic romance like no other. Lord. This is a total trip down memory lane..
Hello, Anne Stuart!! Villain heroes! How many times did you wonder if one of her heroes was a serial killer?
Lol. I know! Totally. You feared and shivered from lust at the same time. And they are mean! It is so not PC and I loved every magical word she wrote. I wish her well. I named my daughter after her first novel and it wasn’t even a good book. But I wanted to pay tribute to Ms Stuart and really my love for books.
Gonna sign off now. My said daughter has another model UN tomorrow and I need to help her on the country she chose. Nigeria. Back to real life. I have a topic we can discuss tomorrow.
Tara, is there a novel with a cheating theme where you thought the Hero fully redeemed himself? I only started seeking them out after WPF. I was never really invested before. I will go look at The Divorce Party now.
I haven’t read a single cheating novel where I was sure the guy wouldn’t cheat again, except WPF.
Janet, here are 3 very different books that work for me:
1. A Perfect Marriage by Laurey Bright. It’s on old Silhouette and is very dated. At times I think the heroine is a bit of a doormat. I think it was Deighj that called the hero honorable. And I guess that’s true on some level.
2. The Ultimate Betrayal by Michelle Reid. It’s an old Harlequin Presents and what works for me is her cycle through the grieving period. Her grief really drives the story. There’s a 7 year age gap in this story and some might be put off by the fact their relationship starts when she’s 17.
3. Saving Grace by AD Justice. This one I won’t describe, it’s too easy to give away parts of the story. Real tear jerker.
I also like The Desparate Wife. I know a lot of people have issues with the emotional cheating, the falling in love with another woman. In most cases the men haven’t fallen in love, they’ve fallen in lust and are willing to walk away for it. I like a story where they have the moment of clarity and realize they’ve screwed up and want their families back.
Theres another old Harlequin Presents that I like Marriage Meltdown by Emma Darcy. It doesn’t deal with actual cheating. He’s on the verge of something with his assistant and his wife is very in tune with situation. There’s a great confrontation scene in his office. Not a perfect story but has some great scenes.
And having said that about great scenes, I think that’s why all of these books work for me. The books aren’t perfect, but there are snippets and scenes that hit the right note.
Yikes, which one hits the redemption thing… A Perfect Marriage. The book is clearly set in 3 parts. The first part he’s trying to get her attention, something isn’t working in their lives, but life gets in the way. The second part is his leaving and the devastation she’s dealing with. And part three is his redemption, he wants their life back. He works for it.
I think the other books have perfect moments and perfect scenes.
Thank you! I will re read Michelle Reid tonight. I loved that book. Have you read true love story by willow aster? I loved that one as well. But just a forewarning, Ian is not a Phil.
I love Michelle Reid, she’s like a guilty pleasure. Have you read The Bellini Bride and The Mistress Bride? Both are so good!
I have read True Love Story, but it didn’t stick with me.
Ok I’ve read them except for Emma Darcy. I grew up loving Michelle Reid and Emma Darcy so I’m a fan of both. I think I’m going to pick up one of these tonight sans cover(I ripped all of them out so my mom can’t see me reading a romance novel). I need these simpler emotional tuggers tonight! Year after year, move after move I just can’t give them up.
Tara I’ve read all of the books listed above and remember them all except the ending to Saving Grace. Was the Wife’s health issue resolved?
I liked The Woman He Marries by Julie N Ford. I felt like the ending was believable and not too neatly wrapped up. Alcoholism played a part in the destruction of their relationship and it felt very genuine.
Thanks Kay! I read this one few years back and don’t remember it well. I will revisit. I do remember I was satisfied with the ending.
I’ve read this a couple of times. I didn’t like the political backdrop. There was something that didn’t ring true, but I did like the relationship issues and resolution, not 100% sure he wouldn’t cheat again, but did love his first attempt at carpooling the kids around and the scene at the dance lesson was funny and relatable.
Just a word of warning to the masses don’t mess with the Nick…
Salt comes out…..Love you J-Girl
I’m like why didn’t Tracie defend Nick’s honor? I got home to trash talking Nick? Hell no. I really really get the fascination with Phil. He IS after all the HERO of two books. Nick is a supporting character. By rule, he cannot outshine Phil even in assholeness. But to categorize him as a player? How so? No way is he a womanizer.
I love you back Ms T!
Omg you all are batshit crazy if you are calling Nick a tool! What in the world is going on here? Yes maybe both Phil and Nick need a refresher course in ethics in med/law school but just because he doesn’t growl he’s not an alpha?
Tara, it doesn’t sound like you would forgive an affair…
You’ve been defending Phil so hard I got confused on your stance. ????? better?
LOL. yes, why am I defending him? I think Tara is too hard on Phil but I think she enjoys playing with our hearts. haha She knows Phil will be redeemed in her eyes. Tara, are we playing what if it happened to us scenario?
I am hard on him because I know he can be a better person! As can Lina and Megan and Katie. I love Logan (he reminds me so much of my son).
I totally want Phil to get his head out of his … and be fully redeemed.
I like cheating stories because they completely breakdown a relationship and rebuild it, when it’s done right it brings you through every emotion imaginable. I love when a strong man says and proves he’s truly sorry—I think you need both words and actions.
What if?? Who knows real life is never tied up in a neat little bow like a book can be.
Tara you just laid out the reasons exactly why I like cheating stories. If no redemption or HEA I don’t read the book. The only exception to that rule would be if one or the other was shown as truly awful or degrading toward their significant other. Hope that makes sense.
Obviously, a Nick’s not my thing, I’m married to a Phil. ?
There’s something about Nick that crossed a line for me, I think he played her, and had a girlfriend waiting in the wings. Lina’s a train wreck, all over the place. In love with and yet devastated by her husband and attracted to the man she perceives saved her daughter. He knew this, yuck!
I can’t say I wouldn’t forgive an affair. I doubt I could forgive what Phil did. I guess it would depend on the situation. I think forgiveness is much easier to give than it is to trust again. It’s the lack of trust that will kill the relationship.
Having said that, I can’t say my hubby wouldn’t find everything he owns floating down the river behind our house, before I’d even consider forgiving.
Nick did not play Lina. Nick loved/loves Lina. Ethically he crossed a line but it was because he let down his guard.
You’re the writer, I’m going to take your word on this and be nice to Nick, that should make Janet happy 🙂
sigh. He still loves her? So sad. I can’t wait for his scenes with Phil.
I have to rethink this. I saw Nick like Phil did… the ethical issue with being Katie’s doctor and I hate to admit I love the scene where Phil makes the snide comment to Nick’s girlfriend.
See ladies, I can side with Phil!
When Nick busted out his comment about knowing karate, I thought, I bet this guy shaves his chests, and nuts too.
Ugh.
omg I thought it was the hottest thing in the novel! I was so happy my fingers tingled when Nick put Phil in his place. bahaha. Martial arts is hot Kbabe. You know Nick rides motorcycles…in my mind.
????
Back to beating the dead horse of the Baltimore running group. I submit that Phil joined that group (and stopped running with his Megan) to be with Kim. She didn’t join because of him. He joined the running group “a few months back” it says in the first chapter. All in the Kim timeline. Can’t wait to hear the explanation for that.
Did it strike anyone else as somewhat odd that neither of the daughters were particularly empathetic to Lina over the affair. Of course, Megan is Daddy’s girl and Katie is all about Katie in typical adolescent fashion. Thank goodness for Logan, and even that may have been more about his disillusionment with his father more than anything else.
Wasn’t the Steamboat trip the same week as when he didn’t have time to go to Florida with the family? However else could he find the time to go there with Kim? And the thing with the pink tie from Neiman Marcus–obviously a gift from Kim. But why in the world would he actually wear it AND bring it home?
And finally, he is supposed to be a highly intelligent man. Did he not perceive anything about Kim’s true nature (her narcissism, her sense of entitlement as it concerns Phil, her lack of regret at hurting others)?
Have any of you read The Divorce Party by Laura David? Very interesting take on the consequences of infidelity.
1. He joined the group to be with Kim… yuck, doesn’t that turn your stomach. I hope there’s a better explanation for that.
2. I found Megan very frustrating. Very much like Phil, fully believing she was always right and I’m hoping she’s not as narcissistic as she appears. Katie’s a curious being. You’re right she’s very much a typical teenager and it seems she spent a lot of time in her own head prior to the start of the story. I love Logan, he’s a good boy that loves his mom.
3. Thinking about Steamboat is maddening and the tie, really why would he have taken a gift from Kim, especially something he would have made a snide comment to Lina about—do real men wear pink?
4. I don’t think he really saw Kim as anything other than a convenience. She was pretty and willing—I doubt he cared about anything else.
5. I’ll look for The Divorce Party at the library, $12 is a little steep for an author I haven’t read.
As far as the tie is concerned. Phil didn’t think. Twenty years ago he told Lina ‘real men don’t wear pink’. His mistress gave him a tie — he never thought twice about it until Lina mentioned it. Suddenly his two worlds collided. The rest is history.
Also Phil didn’t join the running group to be with Kim, it was just the opposite…
Regarding SB, it was not the same time as FL as we assumed.
Ladies, I’m married to Phil.
My husband’s personality is completely in line with Phil’s. Completely. And, guess what an alpha can learn to talk and an alpha can learn to apologize and even grovel.
So, yes, I expect more from Phil.
We may at times communicate at the top of our lungs, but we get through everything. We live, we love and we laugh everyday together. He’s the only person that can make me mad enough to curse and he can make me laugh like no one else can.
Sorry but a true alpha doesn’t back down. Sounds like your husband is learning how to keep you happy! Smart man!!
That’s not true, it’s not a matter of him backing down, it’s about me being as strong as he is—and then both of us learning to compromise within the relationship. It’s not easy, he’s not big on compromising and I don’t get an apology every time my feelings are hurt.
I spent a lot of years asking “is this the hill you want to die on?” Believe me he spent a lot of time stewing over the answer to that question. He’s learned our relationship is worth fighting for.
you know why the betrayal hit us so hard? Because Lina is Phil’s world and we can’t believe he could do this to her. In the past, whatever Lina wanted Phil provided for her. There are multiple examples of this in WPF and I’m not just talking about the house, kids, and the puppy he had to take back. Also, Phil isn’t married to you Tara so he never had to learn and stew over things. Most likely Lina let him lead in this department as head of the family. I’m not defending Phil’s behavior but your husband had years of practice while Phil didn’t.
I totally agree with you.
That’s why I’m so Team Lina.
I understand Lina as much as I understand Phil. It’s very easy to let an alpha be in charge, they’re personality’s are so big. When Lina’s world implodes, she needs to find herself. There’s nothing wrong with her following her path back to Phil. As a reader that’s where I hoped the story went. But, I was willing to follow where Laura took us.
yup. you wanna play with my heart. Thank god we agree.
Tara, he rectified the affair by ending it and re-devoting himself to his family.
Laura wrote the perfect alpha. When they are wrong, guilty or hurting, they are assholes, they sulk, throw tantrums. An alpha doesn’t beg at a woman’s feet and grovel. Even his “get over it” attitude is very typical of an alpha, because he doesn’t want to face and rehash what he has done.
How would you have wanted Phil to behave?
Rock on Kbabe!
Exactly. He knows he is responsible for the disaster that is his marriage and he doesnt lnow how to handle it. Hes always gotten it right, but now hes destroyed everything and he doesnt know how to fix it. Especially with Kim charging in and setting him back repeatedly. He wants to make it better but he knows he cant, and he sometimes reacts very poorly because of it. Lashing out at those around him when what he really wants to do is kick his own ass.
And that’s exactly why an alpha needs to be taught how to communicate. Because yes, they will internalize everything until it explodes out. When you’re married to an alpha you have to be willing to stand your ground and fight toe to toe. And, when you do this they will talk, it might be like pulling teeth, when they’re wrong they can apologize and when they’re really wrong they can grovel.
Ann you just described have the men on planet earth LOL
He’s going to rectify the affair in SN, this the reasoning for the sequel. But in WPF he never stopped supporting or loving Lina and it really doesn’t matter how we feel about Phil, if Lina wants to forgive her husband then more power to her….Yes he was pissy about another man doing his wife, because he knew Nick’s feelings toward Lina were emotional. He knew where he stood with Kim and that was no feelings at all. He didn’t want to lose his wife and how many times did he tell Lina, I will spend the rest of my life making it up to you….Phil is Phil and he grows in SN, take him or leave him…I’m taking him…#TeamPhil
I agree Tracie. I do love Phil. I just get fired up about him still! I personally thought Nick was too perfect. Sure he was a great guy and handsome but with Phil you get so many emotions. He’s an asshole one minute and then the nicest sweetest guy.
Nick was a tool. He crossed so many lines. Kept telling her she wasn’t in a position for another relationship but then pushing his erection into her and asking her back to the boathouse. He had a gf when he told Lina he loved her for Christ’s sake. Fuck that guy.
That’s how I really feel.
Totally agree with you and I totally agreed with Phil when he said he was unprofessional and at that point needed to stop treating Katie. He’s a player and a user. If Lina were his wife, he wouldn’t cheat on her? Really, Lina bought that?
It’s funny, there were many points in the book where I wanted to throw my iPad and almost all of them were between Lina and Nick. I almost stopped reading the book when she went to Nick after finding the pictures. Such a stupid thing to do. Not that I had any sympathy for Phil at that point.
Ok, so what did he do to rectify his affair? Acted like you would expect a “loving” husband to behave?
His ego was stung, really? He has a sexual relationship with another woman that resulted in a child and he’s pissy that his wife may be sleeping with another man, after they’re legally separated, something he chose to do—assuming it was something she wanted. Once again assuming he knows best.
I would never justify Lina’s relationship with Nick, but he seems to hold her to a higher standard than he was willing to live by.
I always felt Lina’s attraction for Nick started as almost hero worship as he helped Katie. Would her attraction to him have grown if she and Phil were on the same page about Katie’s treatment?
Well he does hold her to higher standard in my opinion because he thinks she’s the better half. If Lina put Phil on a pedestal then so did Phil with Lina. He’s her protector but she’s the nurturer. They balance each other’s out. Puhleese. If you were married to Phil you would be in jail next to me.
LOL so true!
As I wrote above, I’m already married to an alpha asshole. I totally understand Phil and that’s why he pisses me off so much—LOL!!
Ann — Lina meets Liam in the first half of the book.
Thanks Laura. I really am Team Phil! AND I would definitely want to get tangled in the sheets with him!!
Girls, we all are imperfect, if not we would be Jesus. He was the only perfect being…Phil had an affair he owns it and going to do everything in his power to rectify it…Tell me how many men in this day and time would do that, not many…The Thanksgiving scene was when Phil thought Lina was sleeping with Nick..She did choose Nick over Phil and his ego was stung! So he treated Lina indifferent. Until after chapter 43 when he slept with Lina and he knew then that she wasn’t sleeping with Nick and there was hope to get his wife back, but it had to be Lina’s choice. Lina even said in WPF she couldn’t live in the style she was accustomed too if not for Phil’s support, which he always provided. Chapter 24, Lina damn near killed herself in the hot tub because she couldn’t see Nick if she stayed with Phil. Lina was struggling with her loyalty to Phil as well…
Yes, Tracie — he was upset about Lina and Nick in that scene.
Ok let’s not make him a bigger man than he is though. Truth be told, he is trying to rectify his mistakes because he wants Lina back. He knows he belongs with only Lina and can only be happy with her. He is not doing this for the sake of his children or because he’s a better man than Nick or another schemo. I can see lots of men doing what Phil did if they want their wives back. In most cases they don’t. They want the young hot mistress. Yes Phil is a good man and when it comes to Lina he can make sacrifices but frankly he also has that cocky immature jock syndrome going for him.
Laura, I do have a question regarding SN. I know the prologue is about Liam coming to the Hunter household and meeting Lina for the first time and Lina just can’t handle it. You said after the prologue the book goes back seven months to where WPF left off. My question is this, which part of the book does this first meeting of Lina and Liam take place?
I love Phil but he is hypocritical. He holds everyone else in the family to this high standard. At first he didn’t care for Matt because he wasn’t going to college and had tattoos. He can’t stand Drew for abandoning his family (which I agree). He doesn’t like Julian because of the way he treats Shilo. However, Phil carries on an affair and is so careless he gets Kim pregnant. Come on. I go back and forth on Phil even though I forgive him.
EXACTLY!!
But don’t you really want to get tangled in the sheets with him anyway?
Yes, exactly. He’s an arrogant asshole at times. He certainly isn’t the typical hero is a romance novel and that’s why I love him. He’s real!
I understand alpha assholes. I’ve been married to one for 35 years. It’s an interesting household—2 type A personalities, neither of us backdown over anything.
But, having said that we’re good communicators and that’s what seems to be lacking between Phil and Lina.
Ann but as Katie pointed out to Logan in Chapter 32 the affair made him flawed he is no longer perfect nor can he hold them to that standard anymore. She was actually relieved he fell from grace. Chapter 47 he admits to Lina that he’s not perfect, but he still feels he’s the man she’s suppose to grow old with…..
Replying to the thread about Phil and his faith.
I’m a person of faith. I’m not so much into organized religion, but that’s a debate for a different blog. You’re right, a religious upbringing sticks with you.
Do we hold Phil to a higher standard because he’s Catholic?
Phil shouldn’t have cheated, because he’s Catholic. Phil shouldn’t have wanted Kim to abort, because he’s Catholic. Phil should take responsibility for his kid, because he’s Catholic.
And, if we are going to hold Phil to a higher standard because he’s Catholic, then shouldn’t we, people of faith, hold ourselves to a higher standard in trying to understand and forgive him?
With that being said, I think it’s better to leave religion out of it. No man should cheat, regardless of age, race, religion, etc…because good men shouldn’t cheat. No man should abandon his child either- good men don’t do that. It’s not a religion issue.
Where was religion when Phil was cheating? Obviously not with him.
I don’t think he should be held to a higher standard because he’s Catholic. What he did was wrong no matter his faith, or lack there of. As people of faith we should forgive him, or be accepting of Lina’s forgiveness.
The abortion thing, I’ve thought about this. He was in panic mode, his world was crumbling around him. I hope what he said he wanted her to do wasn’t truly in his heart. I firmly believe if she’d had the abortion, he would have lived with the guilt.
I agree his faith was not with him when he was cheating. This is why I said it was really Laura’s question to answer—how strong is his faith?
Tara — I agree. He was in panic mode and an abortion would have eaten at him forever.
I think he has a strong faith. He slipped. He goes to confession and asks for forgiveness.
He is who he is and the double standard isn’t going to disappear. He still hates Drew, Julian and … well, we will see about Matt
Hey Ladies. Do you remember what Laura said about those Steamboat pictures? She said by the time Lina and Phil got back together and Lina asked Phil about the pictures because she wanted closure, Phil was reluctant to discuss them. She then said Lina was already desensitized about the pictures so it wasn’t as hard for her to get into the discussion than for Phil. I think Phil felt so much guilt and he knew he fucked up big time! Poor Phil.
Hey ladies. My hubby and I went to the movies this afternoon and dinner. Went to see Vice. I liked it. I thought Christian Bale was excellent as Dick Cheney. I’m guessing you young bloggers don’t remember much about the Bush/Cheney years! LOL
Guilt is not a bad thing, it’s proof he has a conscience. Poor Phil, really?
Yes poor Phil because we have been mentally beating him since the beginning.
You will be able too, if Jordan did…your two run on the same thought track. I don’t guess Phil actually looked at those pictures in WPF…I can’t wait to read that scene…Laura did comment that Phil kind of beats himself up after that scene. I guess the hurt the pictures caused Lina got to him too…Phil never meant for her to be touched by any of that crap with Kim….Everything Kim did to Lina should show Phil she had a backup plan if he didn’t fall for her…I wonder if in SN Lina tells Phil in the dance picture that she thought that look was only for her! Lina said that in WPF.
I was thinking the same about the dancing picture! Whether Lina confronts him about the look. Lina didn’t want to know the details in WPF. Gosh I would wake Phil up every 30 min to bug him on these missing details. He better not have paid for her airline tix. I will scream. ?
Honestly, you ladies don’t want me to think horribly of him (notice I’m not calling him a villain ?) but your talking about Steamboat.
I just went back and did a Kindle search of “Steamboat”, he never denies taking her there. How could he do that? How could he possibly explain that? OMG—I’m aggravated all over again.
So reading the Steamboat search scenes brought me to the leaf blowing after Thanksgiving scene. He’s all pissy that Thanksgiving sucked. Hello, did he forget his affair? He’s sorry so she should just accept it and move forward. She spends Thanksgiving alone (I know by choice) and he feels it’s a good time to share Megan wants to live with him—I don’t know how anyone defends his behavior.
I don’t defend his behavior Tara. But this is also Phil’s personality. He’s as alpha as they come and at the time he was mad at Lina remember? But deep down he’s mad at himself for putting himself where he is and distancing himself from Lina is the only way he can cope being next to her. My one big complaint is there was very minimal communication between these two. Every time he wanted to say something Lina cut him off because she couldn’t handle the truth or Phil would shut down and refuse to answer her questions. The steamboat was neither denied or confirmed. Lina cut Phil off mid sentence! And if they went together it may have been work related because how do you travel with your mistress without paying for her fare?
How close are you on finishing the condo? Yes remember Katie didn’t want to go to church, Phil told them to go light a candle for Shiloh…SB is just another line crossed and Phil will have to live with those consequences, but Lina is still a little bitter too, however a condo isn’t worth giving Phil up for and another Condo can be bought and more memories made somewhere else.
Lord I wish I could compartmentalize it that way too. I go back and forth every time this subject is raised. Lina is at peace with the info but I am not ther yet. I’m hoping I can let Phil off the hook after his explaination.
My condo I’m hoping end of this month? The leaks are really putting us behind. We had to basically gut the place after finding abestos.
Good afternoon girls, I had a swooney thought…Lina takes Phil back on a Sunday! You think it is hard for Phil to leave Lina on Monday to go to work? I hope he is kissing her all the way to the car….
Hi Tracie! What happened to Deighj? Don’t you think Phil took a couple days off after shiloh’s accident? You remembered Phil came home on a Sunday or did you read the ending again? Man you have a good memory. I’ve been stuck thinking about the steamboat picture again. I think I can forgive Phil for the 3 pictures but if he took Kim to SB voluntarily I will be so mad at him. I know we discussed this one to death but he did tell Lina he had to work during the spring break. Phil didn’t take Kim there during the break but it may be woreek related? Just thinking out loud today. TGIF guys!
I just can’t get into books about professional athletes (or rock stars for that matter). Maybe Laura will change my mind.
Just to push you a bit Kbabe, I believe Phil’s faith and humanity go hand in hand so to me his religion does have something to do with him not abandoning Liam. Being catholic to Phil is part of who he is. Why do we need to separate the two? What do you think Tara?
That’s fine.
Would you believe I went to a parochial school until HS? I’m
not opposed to that line of thinking.
I just don’t think religion and being a good person/doing the right thing are necessarily linked.
They are not linked. I agree. Just in Phil’s case.
Was Phil still going to church during the affair? I’ve always thought WPF was a good example of the hypocrisy of religion. The dude goes to church every Sunday but has a side piece. What a joke.
I asked Laura once but she misunderstood my question. Laura said yes but she was talking about when Phil and Lina were separated. My guess is no he wasn’t attending church during his temporary insanity. You better not let Kim hear you. Side piece. Lol
Yes, I’m sure he was going to church with his family. That would be odd to suddenly stop. I was raised Catholic. We never missed a Sunday. It doesn’t mean he was listening — and they don’t preach fidelity each week.
*cough cough* vag warts *cough*
You know I’m always trying to impress you with my lingo.
I hope she does! I hope it haunts her and she can’t have anymore children because of the flare ups! Hate people like her. She thinks she’s above the law.
Good question…
To honest, as much as Phil’s behavior annoys the heck out of me, I don’t think he’d abandon his child. I can’t imagine him not taking care of Liam, and he certainly wouldn’t abandon him to be raised by Kim.
His faith might be tied up in that, but I think that’s a Laura question. It really depends on how deep his faith. We can go to church every Sunday and not have a deep faith.
I think for people of faith their religion is ingrained in their personality. I don’t see everything through a lense of my faith, but it’s always there.
I agree with you Tara! It’s alwasy there…same goes for me.
Kayberla you are right about him being hot, but I would never consider him a mess…He’s redeemable in my eyes because even though he left destruction in his path, he cares and loves Lina enough to go back and rebuild what he damaged…He tells Logan in Chapter 38, I’m living with the consequences of my actions…he knows what he did and he’ll do whatever it takes to rectify it in SN…
I was commenting on the Male character from goalie, not Phil. I just finished that one this afternoon.
I didn’t think the book was well written. He was practically a sex addict don’t you think?
Okay…sorry I thought we were still talkin about Phil!
Lol you will defend Phil till the last breath. Love you!
I just started the Goalie. this guy Santos is a real manwhore. He screws women after his games just to calm himself down. No real problems in his life that would warrant him to cheat on his wife. I’m about a third way through the book.
All this marathon cheating reading to understand Phil!!!!!!! Why why why Phil?!
I did not find him to be a redeemable character. He was a hot mess and, sadly, I could not find it in me to be ok with the idea of forgiveness.
Janet—I’m a quarter through Jane Porter’s The Good Wife. At this point Sarah isn’t remotely likable, Boone’s not really part of the story yet, and I’m not sure I can finish this.
Skim everything else to Boone’s cheating. The secondary story could be skipped. I feel like if you read Boone’s texts to the groupie, Phil isn’t as bad in his texts towards Kim. Did you buy the book? Just skim to the cheating.
I did buy it. I’m reading.
Shoot. Sorry. I got it from the library.
Finished. And, honestly she was most unlikable heroine I’ve ever read. How she talked to and judged her sisters… horrible.
Can you return? Honestly I don’t remember Sarah that well. I even forgot their names but I remember how the guy emailed and sexted the girl and I had another level of understanding for Phil. I don’t usually pay for chick lits. They are rarely worth the cost. If worth buying I will post here. Penelope Douglas is one other than our Laura. I love her sarcastic humor.
I rarely return books, this one went back.
Ok where is Phil? I have my cast iron Dutch oven out. I wanna multitask right now! Ladies it took me like 6 months to get over the running group scenario. I had to re read Chapters 25-26 till I can recite for a play. Tracie and I came up with our own scenarios to play this out. I get it!!
All I can say is this, I loved WPF and I have enjoyed this blog and everyone’s views. Phil being Phil has just made more discussion for all of us girls. If he was a saint we wouldn’t be having these conversations. LOL
One thing that kind of bothered me was the fact that when Phil finally told Lina he had an affair (even though she had suspected it), she immediately wanted him to make love to her to erase her pain, I guess. Personally, if my husband just confessed that he had been having an affair for four months, there is no way in hell that I would want to be near him. That’s just me. Of course, knowing Lina and Phil’s history together you find out later in the book just how much of a connection they do share. She doesn’t know how not to love Phil. Now Kim is evil. She is not entirely to blame for the affair because it takes two, but Kim just has to stick the knife into Lina’s heart every chance she gets.
Sorry about rambling on because I have already said all of these things before but with newcomers Kay and Kayberla, I get stoked up all over again!
Now now, Ann. Sex is symbolic. She didn’t want foreplay. It wasn’t about pleasure. She wanted to shut her mind off.
I threw my kindle after reading that scene and not to the other couch. Wasn’t thinking.. I think Laura said her sister couldn’t read for a month after that scene. This question was raised before.
That’s true, but it’s still hard to take. Please hurry up and get here SN before we all go crazy!
I actually kind of understood that. It wasnt a rational response, but she had just had her entire world shattered. It made me ache for her that a piece of her thought it could be erased. I didnt think it was gross, just unimaginably sad.
Omg. I’m never going to get off of this merry go around. I’m laughing as I’m chomping. Poor Tracie. She’s the defender of everything Phil. Me on the other hand am not so let me play a guessing game here. Tracie is correct. Kim joined the running group to be with Phil. However, Phil didn’t push her away so everyone thought they were married. He also didn’t give a shit what others thought because hey he’s Phil and he’s an hour away from Lina. If he didn’t heed his best friends warning about Phil, you can’t possibly think he cares what strangers think or not. They are of no consequence to Phil. The steamboat, again my guess is Kim followed him. No way no how that Phil took Kim there willingly. Ergo the one night and not the week long sex fest on Linas bed as I first thought. The picture on the nightstand is more of a mystery…
Sorry. Get off the ride. Chopping. Typing and chopping. Didn’t get much work done today…
Kay, I think on the runnIng group, Phil was already a member and Kim crowded Phil’s space and he didn’t stop her from doing it. I don’t think they joined together..Laura correct me if I’m wrong…
Phil’s joining a Baltimore running group with Kim indicates to me that it was more than just sex he was getting from her. If all he was interested in was the next sexy time with Kim, why the running group? So interested to read the latest comments, esp. Kayberla’s insights. And thanks for your kindness, Katie, knew I was raising issues y’all had discussed previously but as a newbie, I was just trying to get a grip on my understanding of the book.
I suspect we’re set to learn all kinds of things about Kim’s subtle manipulations that Phil was too boneheaded to see through, including the running group. Laura has insinuated that’s not what it seems and neither is the trip to Steamboat. That little bit made me irrationally angry too. Hard to be team Phil after everyone thought they were married. Also, my name is Kay too! I chose a different moniker to reduce confusion.
Hi Laura,
Can I request a suspense thriller novel as Kim as the center? I loved what kayberla said about her. Causing destruction wherever she goes. Like Gone Girl Laura Branchflower style!!
Only if it ends with blood. Buckets of it. She makes my skin crawl.
Ok let’s make it a horror. Lol.
I don’t want to read about Kim after SN. I want her to get vaginal warts and have to start searching on special websites like vagwartslove. com for men who are into that. I want her to spend so much time updating her gmail calendar with when she has outbreaks and tending to them that she doesn’t have time to bother the Hunters.
Too funny. LOl. Ok. Laura can’t stomach Kim either. I just love hating on her. Even though she didn’t speak much in WPF she’s a three dimensional character you rarely see in this genre of novels.
Kim didn’t need to speak much in WPF, her actions spoke louder than words…But in SN she will be put in her place…
Let’s say WPF is the ending and there’s no SN. Is Phil redeemed in the readers eyes? Why must he even be redeemed if Lina forgave him? Kayberla said it. Lina wants what she wants and she’s willing to go through the pain of raising another woman’s child because she forgave Phil.
Also I completely agree with kayberla regarding the nuances of this book upon reading it multiple times. I too completely understand Lina. However I am not Lina so I do need my answers. Thank you for your well thought out review Kayberla.
Hi Kayberla. I agree with everything you said. I hate what Phil did and there is no excuse. However, I think he was at a low place in his life with no control and feeling guilty about Katie and then having to be in competition with Dr. Drayton. This was a bad recipe for Phil’s mindset and then you have Kim. She made him feel something. Still no excuse but I get it.
Kayberla I thoroughly enjoyed your post and agree with the way you perceive both Lina and Phil. SN will prove that just because he checked out, doesn’t mean he’s not redeemable…Thank you for joining our conversation..
Kayberla — thank you for your post! You’re assessment of Phil and Lina is just as I intended. I think the readers will have a much better understanding of Phil after reading SN.
Been reading this blog for about a week and catching up on conversations from over the summer.
Back story: I freaking hated this book the first time I read it. I was so pissed at the end I tossed my kindle across the room, (To the other couch, I’m not a total lunatic) and had a little temper tantrum. Decided Lina was a spineless cow and Phil is a d-bag. Walked away thinking Lina was a flaming moron for taking him back. However, I couldn’t get the story out of my mind. I kept thinking about it. I’m a fast reader, which is great when you want to finish a story so you can sleep, but doesnt offer much time for reflection, so I read it again. Then I read it again, making myself take breaks. I enjoy reading stories about mature couples and their issues. I married my husband almost 22 years ago when I was 18, so stories about young couples meeting, accidentally getting pregnant and just generally being immature, makes me feel old. I like realistic stories and cheating stories are fascinating to me, so long as the conclusions are realistic.
Upon my 3rd reading, I found I had come to feel quite differently than my first speed read. It is, in my opinion, the mark of a very talented writer when each time you open a story you see something different. I developed a greater understanding and a more lenient opinion about the actions of these characters. I understand Lina completely. She has a deep need to be cared for, physically and emotionally, and she went all in to get that only from Phil. Phil, on the other hand, takes care of everything. Its who he is. Until his teenage daughter goes off the rails. I have teenagers, and they’re the worst. Nothing makes you feel as incompetent as trying to guide a teenager through life. Upon reflection, I’m not surprised that Phil would also self destruct when his daughter does. He is someone who is always in control and makes the right decisions. But his decision regarding the discipline of his daughter actually pushes her so much farther over the edge, he can’t deal. And the guilt is overwhelming. Then, to the rescue, is the magical doctor who is making everything better when, for his whole life, that was Phil’s job. Is it really that hard to believe that he would need to check out for a bit when his entire life is in chaos? Now, I am not making excuses. Phil made concious decisions to deceive Lina. I too have a huge issue with Steamboat (I celebrated an anniversary there, and its gorgeous!) And the length of time the affair went on, but I have developed a sad kind of sympathy for Phil. Teenagers are a greater strain on a marriage than most people realize. Does it make him the villain that he is human and flawed and not worthy of the pedestal Lina built for him? I dont think so. But that doesnt make him the hero in my opinion, either. It makes him real. It makes this a story that you invest your energy in.
As I thought about how I might go about consciously unraveling my relationship with my husband, who I have been with since I was 16, I wondered how I’d even consider approaching a life that didnt have him in it. Every moment of my life is wrapped up in my husband. I have zero adult experiences and memories that he isnt a part of. Could I ever just decide he had done something I couldnt try to work past? I actually felt sick for Lina trying to navigate a life where every thought didnt go back to Phil. I suspect she would have a much easier time with the affair if she weren’t embarking on a lifetime journey raising Liam and being tied to the most painful experience in her adult life, but she wants what she wants and she has a right to dictate how she goes forward and whether or not to try to invest the time in trusting Phil with her heart again. Kim….well…Kim saw Phil’s issues from miles away, didnt she? She knew exactly how to get in there. Shes like a shark smelling blood in the water with Phil, then again as she knows exactly where to cut Lina for maximum impact. I wonder how many other times in her life she spread destruction in her quest for the things she wanted.
I am looking forward to getting a little bit of perspective from Phil. We know how Lina struggles with her new reality and I’d like to hear from him. I dont know exactly what I will need to make myself “Team Phil”, I’m still pissed, but I hope to be more than “Team Lina” by the time the story is done.
This! Thank you; I totally agree. Laura is all about subtleties- it’s my favorite thing about her writing.
??
To change the subject… did anyone else see TL Swan is writing Mr. Spencer??
Spencer from Mr. Masters? I’m into it.
If Laura answers that question, I’ll fly backwards LOL…She is not going to give us the ending J…That would ruin it for us…
haha. We know how it ends. Kim= no hea. No kim = hea. I will fight to the death on this one. I think coexisting with Kim would give me acute heart failure. How about a good looking Donald. Like Jon Haam twin who is a narcissist. He could be a corrupt politician that Tony or Joseph went after in the past. whatever. Two narcissist can happily coexist. I’m breaking it down and simplifying because Lina needs her equilibrium restored. If I must, I can settle with periphery.
Bahahaha I love you J….if there is Coparenting it will be like Phil at a drive through ordering fast food..Let’s go buddy, diaper bag, anything I should know (Kim says no), he’ll be home at 6 on Sunday….turns and walks away..
Hey here’s a thought. Let’s forgive Phil and think of Kim’s demise in a painful manner. That witch deserves Donald trump. Free melania. Then trump and Kim will live HEA in their narcissistic bubble. They will always be right.
Laura, will Kim leave Phil for power and $$? Or is love the ultimate goal for even a woman like Kim?
I think Janet was asking hypothetically, T. Does a woman like Kim have the capacity for real love? I think she probably thinks she does. She probably thinks it was love at first sight with Phil and she’s on some fairytale journey where Lina is the villain, and Phil will discard his wife and 3 kids for her. But Phil is like a really nice handbag she had to have. There will be another handbag.
I think so too, if she is not hung up on Phil, but someone else it would be her meeting Phil at the door, here’s Liam, his stuff, no issues, bye!
Not selfless, self sacrificing love like moms have for their kids. Kim’s love is you are one hot alpha male and I want you to have sex with me 5x a day. superficial surface lust/ love. Sure. If she believes that’s true love and she belongs with Phil then she will fight until another better handbag comes along.
Bring on the new alligator creations….Bitch needs a new bag…LOL
bahahaha. Chanel no longer makes exotic leather. Kim needs to upgrade to a croc Donald.
Exactly Kbabe, Phil is a good man..He went off the beaten path, shit happens but that doesn’t mean he suddenly became a worthless human being, it just means he has to live with the consequences of his actions. Phil is man enough to do just that and he puts all the blame on him…He’s a good redeemable man that made a terrible mistake and will do whatever it takes for his family to be whole again and that includes Liam…
Ok girls, here is my question today. Dig into your soul for this one.
Have you ever come off the rails during any point in your life? Have circumstances led you to be a person for a brief period that wasn’t you?
I have. Never cheating, but in other ways.
Try to have some understanding. Life can be very complicated, so many shades of grey.
If we all didn’t experience that at some point in our lives we would be considered perfect and that is not happening for none of us…
I have to start by saying I’m a devout Catholic, so I completely believe God has given us free will. That makes me understand life through shades of grey. Of course, everyone sins, everyone has regrets, everyone is human. Everyone can be forgiven, everyone can be redeemed.
Evil deeds are not just done by evil people—that’s what makes us all human and sinners.
Is cheating forgivable? Of course, should Phil be forgiven? Of course. That doesn’t negate what he did as a sin.
You are absolutely correct Tara, he broke one of the Top Ten…That is recognized throughout WPF…Him breaking his vows, him going to church and him still taking his kids to mass after his separation. He recognizes that and prays everyday Lina will forgive him and come back to him.
My goodness.
Phil is not a villain. He’s an idiot. He thought he’d fuck around with Kim until he didn’t want to anymore and no one would ever know or get hurt. He didn’t mean to hurt Lina. I honestly believe that. He was letting off some steam, being in control of something, saying “fuck it” during that time in his life. It’s not OK. It just is.
I don’t think stepping up for Liam has anything to do with being Catholic. It’s just being a good man. Liam is innocent. Even Lina knows that. She wouldn’t ask him to disown Liam, and he never would. Would you want to be with a man who didn’t father his own son? It’s a very sad, hurtful and complicated situation, yes. Like everyone said, Phil would keep Liam separate if he had to, but Lina loves him too much to make him do that.
You have finally started channeling me J-Girl…LOL. I love it……Goalie is nothing like WPF, but some of his feelings are consistent with Phil’s that we have seen in a few of the snippets…
Omg I don’t even like Phil and I’m defending him. I let another person go ahead so I could read Tara’s comment. Losing it here.
How about we call Phil an anti hero? I totally get you. He didn’t think he would get caught. I agree, goalie is nothing like WPF. Honest to god we all know it’s Lauras writing that we are all here smacking or hugging Phil right now.
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple. Told them the consequences if that happened. They still ate it and it was Eve who tempted Adam. Phil is human. That’s it.
Hell Fire I had late Physical Therapy today…First of all Phil doesn’t even fall into the category of villain…Phil never meant to harm his family nor did he know that Kim was documenting the affair for Lina…Was he wrong, very much so…but he never once lost sight of who he loved, he may have lost sight of who he was for a little while, finding his way back in SN will be an emotional hell for him…Phil has never let Lina or her family down, until the affair and he will fight tooth and nail to put his family back together. Phil is not forcing Liam on Lina or his kids, he’s letting Lina make the call when she is ready for Liam to come into their family…That alone is hell on Phil, that shows he’s putting his family above himself and Liam…He’s only seeing Liam once a week. Villain No, Human Yes…..
I read a book that Deighj recommended Goalie by
Carter. He cheated for ten years and she took him back. The book was an eye opener and told in a dual point of view…Four months is nothing girls….
Team Phil all the way!
Tracie is Phil looked like Danny devito but had Phil’s personality, would you still say all this? Lol. I had to put that in there. I don’t like this talk of disliking Nick I have to admit….
LOL — I know how you feel, Janet.
I was going to stop pushing this button, but can’t seem to help myself…
A villain isn’t necessarily evil, and really on some level, Phil knows he’s going to cause pain, and he has the affair anyway. Did he really think Lina wouldn’t find out, did he really think no one would get hurt? Not intentional, but he went into it knowing it would devastate Lina. Guess what it did—and that’s villainous behavior, human definitely.
Goalie… you cannot possibly compare these books. Only similarity is they’re both cheaters.
He didn’t know he was going to cause pain. He was thinking one fuck at a time, because he had no emotional attachment…Remember Tara Kim convinced Phil they were just having fun, no strings attached sex. He had no idea Lina was going to find out, so no he didn’t go into it knowing Lina would be devastated…He was played and yes he was a willing participant, but he didn’t know that Kim changed the damn rules either…
Also, Goalie had some male POV that is relevant to what Phil is thinking based on the snippets Laura has provided thus far.
OMG.
Obviously, I’m giving him too much credit, he’s not as bright as I thought he was.
He might of compartmentalizations the situation, but he knew what he was doing was going to hurt and devastate Lina, why else was he panicking when Kim wouldn’t let up with the texts and phone calls.
Tara are you an attorney?
No, Associate Director of Finance for a very large not for profit. Fancy total for accountant.
Cool.
You sounded like an attorney for a minute talking about foreseeable consequences.
I’m not an attorney, but Phil is and shouldn’t he have seen the foreseeable consequences? ?
Phil was reckless! Phil wasn’t thinking about the consequences of his actions. Kim knew exactly what she was doing.
Team Phil!!
Amen Carrie….
Do you really think he didn’t think about the consequences? Do you honestly think he didn’t know what he was doing was wrong? That he’s just being reckless?
I think he’s smarter than that. He knew what he was doing just as much as Kim did. He didn’t care about the consequences until he chose to care about them.
Team Lina (who’s Team Phil, so I am too, grudgingly)
You are right and that was my issue from the beginning. He’s defense is that he didn’t think Kim would cause this raucous once the affair was over. Since this book is about cheating and how Phil redeems himself to the readers I will stick with Phil being human and leave it at that. I do disagree about Phil being the villain.
Tara, have you read the Good Wife by Jane Porter? I think Phil is a bit like the MC from that novel. Not like the guy from goalie.
No, but I’ll give it a try.
Had Phil truly thought about the consequences he would not have had the affair. There is no “just”. Phil didn’t expect to get caught.
Exactly and he kept the guilt at bay by knowing he wasn’t emotionally involved and he wasn’t.. like Laura said Phil’s is the H and he is a flawed H. So love him or not..I choose Team Phil
Good luck trying to sway Tracie and Carrie. You will be met with a concrete wall
LOL that would be a reinforced concrete wall…..
I was checking back in to see what the progress on SN was and was intrigued by Kay’s comments this morning. I too questioned Phil’s involvement with Liam and its impact on Lina and his other kids. There seemed to be no real discussion between Lins and Phil about what Phil’s role in Liam’s life would be (purely financial or with Phil being there as his father). It seems likely that is because of the circumstances being that Lina and Phil were separated at the time of Liam’s birth when that decision would likely be made so she had no real reason to have a say. So I guess my question would be a little different, if Lina had asked (not that I think she would) for Phil to have no relationship with Liam (like he initially planned) to save their marriage/family would he have done that for her?
Rebecca Lina wouldn’t have asked that of Phil, she knows what kind of man Phil really is and he wouldn’t abandon her nor would he abandon his children. Phil probably would have kept a relationship separate from Lina and his other kids if she asked, but again she wouldn’t.
He would not have done that for Lina. He is not a martyr by any means and his catholic beliefs would never let him cut all ties with his son. I think he would have kept Liam away from
Lina if she could not accept him. We often forget Lina is sticking with Phil becasue she said she couldn’t be happy without him. So for her I don’t think it’s a choice.
Thanks Ladies! I completely agree that Lina would not have asked that of him. I struggle with understanding Phil so I wasn’t sure.
Phil wouldn’t be my H if he’d abandon an innocent child. Think of the man Liam would turn out to be with only Kim as a parental figure. The ladies are right, Phil would never abandon him. At most, he’d keep him separate from Lina.
On a lighter note- my husband has been wearing his unicorn pajama pants (they’re amazing- patchwork denim print with unicorns and rainbows). It doesn’t make him less manly, alpha- it makes him a great dad. ?
Put on those elf pjs, Philly boy.
It’s the butterfly effect here. Let’s blame Katie; she was born, she started cutting. Let’s blame Lina; she started emotionally relying on Nick before Phil’s physical affair. Let’s blame Phil; he was too hard on Katie, he had an affair. Let’s blame Kim; she pursued Phil. Let’s blame Liam; his existence is why Kim is still around. On and on and on. Change one thing and everything changes. There is hurt and blame and disorder in so many directions. But Kim is the true villain- no doubt. She pursued Phil with every intention to break up his family and that continues. She’s a tornado with no regard for anything in her path.
Tracie you missed the international buffet this morning.
these discussions are all in good fun. Phil is flawed but he’s the H in this story. A very flawed H.
So what is the point of this discussion? That Phil is at fault? That Phil is the villain? We are going around in cicircles. I already said Phil is the cause but he didn’t ask for the effect which is Kim. Is it wrong time for me say I’m team nick now? Lol. No hard feelings Tara. You and I are more similar than not. It just tells me if our husbands were to stray they wouldn’t live to tell a soul about it.
OMG–I have absolutely no hard feelings, I’m the queen of debate and playing devil’s advocate.
I hope I haven’t hurt too many feelings.
I really want to like Phil (even if I think he was the villain) and I will continue to dislike Nick. I will continue to hate Kim. I want Megan to try to understand her mother and show some compassion. I want Katie and Matt to keep going and have a forever HEA. I want Logan to continue being an amazing, loving son. I want Liam to find his spot in their family and I want Kim to go away.
So, you see, I think we’re all want the same things, right?
I agree Janet!!
Lol. Did hell freeze over that we agree on Phil and Kim? You and Tracie can still share Phil. I won’t sway on that. He’s too much trouble for me.
LOL!!
Calling Phil a villian is an oversimplification in my opinion. He causes pain and disorder, yes, but do does Nick. They’re all damn villains then, even Lina. Logan, you’re the only Hero!
It may be an oversimplification, but HE is the only one that can cause the hurt and pain that Lina goes through–HE CAUSES IT–it’s exacerbated and made worse by Kim and her evil ways, and is supported by Nick and all of his “emotional” help.
And, YES, Logan is the only pure of heart hero in this story. He loves and supports his mother like no one else and calls Phil out on all of his crap, even if he’s only a kid and Phil demands respect.
Yup everything Ann and Katie said I agree. I totally get Tara but here’s where I differ. Phil is just a man. He’s not selfless and he’s not a superhero. A flawed character for sure but the only true villain is Kim. Therefore bye bye Kim is necessary. I know I’m a broken record. No using Kim as penance. Bad mom is a bad mom. Liam is better off without her otherwise Kim will brainwash Liam and he will become a bitter confused boy. There is no other option here. Unless Kim has a personality transplant in which case she will leave Phil alone. For me it’s more than redemption. It’s called justice and i NEEd my justice.
And Kim will be the villain in SN. I have no doubt that Phil will be the best of heros in SN.
In all of what I’m saying is in WPF, not SN.
Ladies–I’m sorry!
I’ve managed to piss everyone off this morning. I need to get back to work–LOL
You know it’s a GREAT story, when it elicits such strong feelings.
Laura–you’re an amazing writer 🙂
Where the hell is Tracie!
LOL That’s what I was wondering. Tracie????
Tara you are correct he didn’t have to say yes. But saying yes doesn’t make Phil a villain. Phil isn’t evil but Kim certainly had evil in her heart.
We have different definitions of villain. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
He causes pain, he causes havoc, he expects forgiveness, he expects to move forward and when Kim causes more chaos and hurt and pain, he doesn’t really fight to keep Lina. When she turns to Nick (which I thought was insanely stupid and I really don’t like him–he’s a player and a user and may have done amazing things for Katie, but he shouldn’t have encouraged her) he walks away–giving her what HE thinks she wants.
I love that he’s an alpha, super confident, caveman. It makes him an interesting and flawed character. Ultimately he’s the cause of Lina’s pain and suffering, him–that makes him a villain in my book and I love a villain hero 🙂
Girls, reading these posts about Phil’s cheating gets me heated up and angry. Then, I step back and think of all of the things we discussed over the last few months about Phil. When I really look at Phil, I see a super confident, handsome as all get out guy, with a cave man personality! LOL. Then I also see someone who is very vulnerable when they lose their control to keep the family on track and try to deal with a crisis when dealing with Katie. He feels he can’t control things any longer and after the fighting with Lina, he just gets weak. He feels like he can’t do anything right. No excuse for his behavior, but that’s how I keep Phil as redeemable. Also, remember Diane said that Kim pursued him relentlessly. My biggest issue with Phil’s cheating is Steamboat and 4 months. I know I sound like a damn broken record! haha.
Again Kim is the villain. She went after Phil. Kim was the proximate cause of the affair. Being the proximate cause makes Kim the true villain. Kim knew exactly what she was doing going after Phil.
HE didn’t have to say yes!!!
No, but the novel would’ve been a cover with no pages had there not been an affair.
No cheating, no story, of course.
He poor choices started long before his cheating–his inability to deal with Katie triggers everything, including Lina emotionally relying on Nick.
No way — Lina is not innocent in all of this.
Oh boy.
Phil is no villain, just a very flawed hero. And, Tara, yes he is very selfish, but he also does some very selfless things. Taking responsibility for Liam, regardless of the familial and social backlash, is selfless to me. Even though he thought Lina was with Nick, he still helped Alice, supported Lina financially, and stayed true. He gave her space to find herself/come back to him. These are selfless things.
We’ve talked so much about all of this, there’s no need to discuss it further, except let’s be fair to Kay- she’s new to the discussion.
Kay, everyone has the same issues with Phil at first glance. But SN will explain a lot. He did have a 4-month affair, and some may never be able to move on from that. Kim was painting a picture for Lina, making the affair seem more emotional than it was. I’m convinced of that.
Just from a purely literary strategic move, this story would not have been as powerful had every detail and question been explained and answered. The love triangle was central to the story- don’t forget that.
✌️❤️?
I still say he’s doing what a husband and father are supposed to do.
Would you expect less of a man who isn’t cheating? Would you expect less of your husband or your father?
No matter that he thought she may have been with Nick–he wanted her back, how else should he have behaved.
I get that most can’t see him as a villain, was he thinking about his wife, children, MIL or anyone else when he was cheating? IF he didn’t cheat, Kim would have had NO weapons to use against Lina.
I may be grumpy in the next few weeks. Started less fatty version of Keto diet yesterday. Then last night I was dying for some dinner rolls so I went out at 10pm to the grocery store but only picked up yeast. Maybe I can just smell yeast to satisfy my craving? Back to the real world for me this week. Gotta take care of our 5th leak in the condo renovation. ✌️
Tara do you think Phil is evil?? A villain is a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime. A character whose evil actions are important to the plot. The villain is KIM!! Phil doesn’t even come close to being a villain as far as I’m concerned!
I think the character in the story that creates havoc and causes pain is the villain. Phil does this, he creates the havoc and the pain with his cheating.
That does not mean the villain is evil or can’t be redeemed. Kim is also a villain, but a lesser one. She doesn’t exist without him. He doesn’t cheat, she becomes immaterial.
Nobody likes to admit it because we like our heros to be strong and not fail, but that’s what makes cheating stories so great. They can fail and they can be redeemed and forgiven and move forward.
Clarifying–lesser only in she causes pain because of her relationship with Phil (no relationship–no pain)
Isn’t this what most of us struggle with regarding Phil.
Let’s be honest, whether we like it or not, Phil’s the villain in WPF. He’s selfish, his needs always come first. He needs to be right, He needs Lina back, does he ever really put Lina first, or is his needs driving it. He needs his family to accept Liam. Did he ultimately start his relationship with Kim because he needed a release from his frustrations and couldn’t reach through to Lina.
The more I think about him, the more I want to throat punch him.
The only reason I’m remotely team Phil is because I’m team Lina and she’s choosing him.
Financially he wasn’t selfish. He gave her more than her share according to her lawyer. He continued to take care of Lina’s mother (fixing things around her house etc). That wasn’t selfish. He didn’t have sex with another woman during their time apart. As far as Kim is concerned. She intentionally went after Lina – that wasn’t necessary (and on her birthday)
I also don’t agree that he’s a villain. He’s a man that has an affair. No justifying it. It was selfish. But a villain is someone trying to hurt people. Kim
He wants Lina back, so he does the right thing. What a good husband should already be doing.
Cheating husbands are the villains, it doesn’t mean they can’t be the hero too. That’s the point of forgiveness and redemption. For me that’s the driving point of a cheating story, can they still be the hero?
So you believe if he knew it was over for good, he’d suddenly cut off Alice?
And Laura, what happens to villains in books and movies? You get rid of them!!! Hahaha. I’m standing firm on my stance. Unless you tell me otherwise. Lol. I think the others are too lenient when it comes to Kim but that ending is too too realistic for me. I need her to let Phil go completely.
Laura, that’s a curious question isn’t it? I would hope not, but that’s would be your question to answer.
All I’m saying is he’s doing what I would expect a husband to do, I don’t think he’s going above and beyond for a man that wants his wife and family back.
Gotcha — well the answer is yes, he would.
Janet — I like the ending
1. Well, that makes me think higher of him ?
2. I don’t feel any sympathy towards Kim, she’s an evil crone.
3. I am completely looking forward to SN!
Well, Kay makes some good points regarding Phil. I think we all struggled with these same thoughts at first. However this subject has been dissected over and over. I’m team Phil BUT I always had an issue with the 4 months and Steamboat. I love reading other views. It makes you think!
Hi Laura. How do you keep your sanity from our incessant questions?
Oh Boy, thank God Phil will come through in SN or you may be answering our questions forever.
Hi Ann. I can’t think about the 4 months or I will kill Kim myself since Laura won’t do it in SN. We will get our answers soon enough. There will be resolution and peace. Have a wonderful day!
Why kill Kim? He’s the reason it went on for 4 months. Kim is just a tool he uses to get what he wants. Kill him. He should have said no from day one, no matter how hard she chased him
Ugh ugh ugh. There are others who share your views. I think Phil was a selfish prick in WPF but he isnt evil. He was just a knucklehead who thought Kim was playing the same game he was. Phil and Lina are both very flawed characters but Phil is not the villain. Maybe he was the cause but Kim is definitely the effect. I think it’s realisric that after being with one partner for 25 years he may stray once. Not saying it’s ok but I can see it happening.
Villains aren’t necessarily evil. They make bad choices that spread like waves, hurting people in their wake. It doesn’t mean they can’t be redeemed.
I’m sure we will Janet!
this is a comment from a reader named Kay left on one of the other threads last night — I’m copying it here…
New to the party here with some observations and questions:
Have spent FAR more time than expected angsting over WPF. Still get a heart clench whenever I think of “Your husband couldn’t get enough of me” and the trip to their vacation house. Looking forward to getting additional perspective on both and more.
Everything Phil did was so intentional. It didn’t “just happen,” at least not after the first time in New York. And the way I read it, he had been intimate with Kim on that last trip to New York just before Lina saw Kim’s message and was trying to figure out a way to see her that very weekend. It wasn’t until he reconnected with Lina that Friday night and when I think his boss/friend/mentor told him to end it with Kim, only then did he begin to do so. And according to Lina, it had only been three weeks since she and Phil had been intimate; it wasn’t as if it was a four month drought at home.
He keeps repeating that Lina and the children are the most important things in his life and he would never do anything else to hurt them. He tells Kim that he will only “meet his legal responsibilities and nothing more” to the child. Then in SN we find out he is now playing Daddy to the new baby. Not that it isn’t understandable in a way. But if anything would hurt his first family, it would be this, and hurting Linda and the children further is what he said he wouldn’t do. In Phil’s case, pay attention to what he does, not what he says, evidently. He tells Lina he will put her needs before everyone else’s. Again he doesn’t do that unless he thinks her needs involve watching him take care of his baby with another woman. Starting to get angry here!
What was the relationship Kim thought she had or expected to have with Phil. She is angry at Lina as if Lina is the intruder, not herself. How else to explain her behavior at the wedding? I feel no sympathy for her, unlike a few others here, but I do wonder what exactly Phil allowed her to expect from the relationship.
In relation to Nick, when Lina asked if he would cheat on his wife, he says, “I would never cheat on you, Lina.” Not exactly the same thing. And we soon know that he is at least emotionally cheating on his girlfriend.
Questions:
Is there any way to access the scenes that are referred to in the comments in the blog. I have seen the ones posted, but feel like there are more that are being referenced?
I am so looking forward to reading the rest of the story in Swimming Naked and compliment Laura on giving us such a thought provoking book.
Which one is it? It kept giving me errors.
The one with the sun in my face? My SIL told me I look like the Mona Lisa in that picture, so I knew it was the one. ???
I was on goodreads reading reviews for Jewel’s book and your picture popped up. Let me know if you read it because I don’t like reading books based in LA. The couple meet in coachella of all places so I will read if you all think it’s worth it. Just finished 1984 so I want something lighter hearted.
I haven’t read at all today. I’m going to start Luna and the Lie instead.
Yes that’s the one. You do look like Mona Lisa. Lol. I like M zapata too but not in the mood where they don’t have sex till 80 percent. Haha. I will start Kristen Callahan or Sara ney tonight.
I read 2 pages and it’s too slow. Maybe I’m just not in a reading mood.
try Mia Sheridan’s Stinger. He’s a porn star! The last half is odd but the premise is so good. I love reformed strippers and porn stars. Or Defy by LJ Shen. He’s a senior in HS and a total ahole. She’s his english teacher. Novella so you won’t be bored. So so good.
I think I’m going to be the only reader in romance land that didn’t love Luna and the Lie. It was good, but I’m glad I got it on KU. it should have been called Secrets and a Lie. Too long, too drawn out.
Katie, love your profile pic. You crack me up. Also follow NMmomof4. I like her break down of the books. How’s jewel e ann’s book?
Colleen’s all your Perfects should be borrowed from the library.
I’m about a third the way through Luna. I like where it’s going, she does a great job building the story. Something funky is going on but you can’t tell what yet.
Colleen Hoover… has anyone else read Verity? And is All Your Perfects worth $8.99?
I have not read the Something in the Way series. I’ve looked at it several times, but it annoys me that I have to read 4 books to get to the HEA.
I gave up on the Outlander books because of this. How much torture can one couple go through before they can settle into their HEA?
It was a very slowwww burn. I binged all 4 books in 2 evenings. But I really loved it. Not sure I could take on a 4-book series again though- I’m too impatient.
Katie, I’m reading Luna and the Lie by Mariana Zapata. She’s 27 and he’s 41.
So, I haven’t one clicked AnPlace Without You yet. Is it a NA or YA?
Funny I just borrowed Luna. Let me know what you think.
A Place Without You- New Adult
Have you read the Something in the Way series by Jessica Hawkins? The blurb makes it sound like it might be similar
I just bought it today….
Has anyone finished A Place Without You?
Bought it today as well but haven’t started it
Hi Deighj and Ann…The shutdown doesn’t affect my job, we are considered mission essential personnel, I’m glad you girls checked in, I miss you when you don’t…I’m also moving from the walker to a cane…Yay!
Hey Janet did you say you had messaged someone to read SN on good reads? Was it Geri?
Not yet because Swimming Naked isn’t out yet. I can message her before the book comes out.
Good morning girls. I’ve been absent for several days but catch up each evening. I wish everyone a Happy New Year and hope the coming year will be the best for us all. It’s been an extremely trying Christmas for me with guests every night for dinner. This would be okay but they were my daughter’s friends that didn’t help with clean up at all. Dirty dishes anyone? Just had to vent there.
Trace it’s wonderful that you’re walking as well as you are. Two weeks out and not limping. That’s our warrior girl! Will the government shutdown affect you at all? Thought about you reading the news.
J, Katie, Ann, I’m trying to whittle down books on my Kindle but having ADD on most. I did finish Goalie by M.E. Carter for the 2nd time and enjoyed it much more than the first read. The latter part really made me think. It’s about a soccer player that was never faithful from the beginning of his relationship with his wife. Good book. I also finished Heartless by Kristie Love which was an okay read. I just read All Your Perfects by Coleen Hoover which was a freebie. Despite the bad reviews I enjoyed.
Katie your resolution on a balanced life is so good that I’m adopting it. I haven’t made resolutions in years. But I do need to make some changes. Thank you.
As for feeling sorry for Kim that ain’t happening. That said watch Laura change my mind. Even thinking about her brings up those Scorched Earth feelings that Trace and Janet laugh about. When I think about Laura’s writing I think about a quote I read which is ‘Impossible itself says I’m possible.’ Good luck on that one Laura.
Missed all of you. It makes ME happy reading about your lives. Take care my friends.
Ania, how was your Christmas and New Year’s? Any traditions for the New Year celebration?
Love you Deighj.
My advice for balance. Say no to others and yes to yourself more often. Buy clothes and swim suits that fit, even if they aren’t the size you want (not a problem for you). There’s always housework to be done. Always. Putting it off for days or a week makes no difference. Quit the job you hate. You’re good enough and talented enough to find another.
I’m sure there are more…
More…
Do something for yourself every night- read, bath, etc.
Avoid lists
Read a Laura Branchflower book
Discuss it to death with a group of virtual girlfriends.
?
I love wrestling and discussing the book to death with my super hip virtual girls….
I read somewhere you should buy a bathing suit that is a size bigger….so depressing right?
Katie, I’m fortunate enough that I don’t have to work outside my home. How did you know the first thing I did was make a list? I’m all about organization. My home is my job so the first thing I should do is toss that list. The second and most important is saying YES to myself.
Okay list tossed. There are so many ‘yes to me’ choices in front of me I need to make another list LOL. Nah, I’m going to go with the flow. I am so brave. Wish me luck because I want to but I’m afraid of stepping out of my comfort zone.
Hi girls.
I took all my decorations down already. Much quicker than when I put them up.
Tracie, I love your birthday scene. I find myself going back and rereading many of Laura’s snippets.
Laura, I’m sure you are so very exhausted, you need to take a nice relaxing break when you are completely finished. One thing I love about your writing, Laura. You sure know how to create the most amazing male characters. I’m dead serious.
I went back on my low carb diet today. I so so need it! I gave away all my cookies, candies, etc.
I love you girls you crack me up….I told my husband yesterday that I felt like I had a dog nipping at the back of my knees and realized it was my ass slapping them Lol…got to do some squats soon…
I’m feeling Phil swooney today I’m going to have to read my BD scene again…Lol. Laura since you are the only one that knows what Phil is thinking, in my BD scene was Phil stewing over what Adele had said when he went to change clothes?
It’s dreary and raining here today…ugh
Routine sounds great! I will start tomorrow. Argggh. I gained more than Tracie. The Walmart jeans I got are now too tight and I’ve been using a hair tie to button my jeans. This Insanity needs to stop!
Laura do you think you will be done with the editing this week? Do you care what happens to Drew because you want Alice to be happy?
Katie, I gave up Linda kage’s mason Pov. I will start the new jewel e Ann. It just came out yesterday.
Ok this moose needs to do one last lunch before going into hibernation.
The new one by Jewel E Ann looks good. I saw the word forbidden. I’ll start that one too.
Re: eating too many dinner rolls.
I haven’t weighed…I go by how pants fit. And they’re fitting like an undersized condom post-holidays. Not that I know what that feels like.
I think I’ll go gluten and dairy free for awhile- most of that shit doesn’t taste any good.
Good Morning Girls, you are always working hard Laura and 5lbs when you are 5’9” is nothing…I’ve gained almost 12 since August…I’m looking like a pint sized blow fish…I’m so happy the holidays are over and I have this week off and one more. I go back to work on the 14th, can’t wait to get back to a routine.
I’m working hard on SN — no obligations until tonight. Hope everyone is getting back into the swing of things.
LOL. No, J, I don’t think she’s quite as psychotic as the girl from Gone Girl. No throat slashings.
I finished Torn last night. I liked it. A solid 4 stars. I wanted to keep knowing what happened so that was a plus. I thought the characters’ voices all sounded the same, except with more expletives for the men. My only complaint.
What’s next?
I seriously hate when the characters all sound the same.
Not age gap or cheating stories… have you read Kate Canterbary? Book 2 of the Walsh series has an 8 year age gap. She’s a great story teller.
Right now I’m reading Mariana Zapata’s Luna and the Lie, she writes slow burn stories.
I was just thinking, is Kim like that character from gone girl? Amy. Amy is a psychopath… my sisters and I are discussing possible endings. Chomp chomp. That bitch. Chomp chomp. Look at this on Zara. Kim would wear it. Chomp chomp. Bitch…
No! lol
It is going to be so good though, to finally read SN…I know it is going to be a best seller on Amazon, no doubt in my mind.
I wonder if she has to go through the whole manuscript? Remember Jordan was 60 pages in and felt sorry for Kim and Phil…I may feel sorry for Phil, but not Kim,,I think it might be the hospital scene…Phil may not be mean to Kim right after giving birth, but he won’t be all in to her either…He’ll be all about Liam and probably going through some bittersweet memories about Lina having his other kids…
I don’t think so. No deleted scenes but a few add ons. My guess is end of January for SN. I think all I did was eat since thanksgiving. All I want is bread. Just plain dinner rolls with cheese and jam. I’m gonna need a whole lot of dinner rolls for SN
I’ve seriously gained five pounds since Thanksgiving. I need to stop!
Thank you girls for you well wishes…
Laura glad you got to sleep in and you got My excite vibes buzzing over our SN. We are so close to skinny dipping I can feel the polar brrrrrr….It’s freezing
here……Sorry you are so tired Laura…You may need to tell family and friends you need to hibernate for a day and just sleep and rest….Glad your dad is doIng so well too!
Did Laura say she wrote 89 pages more? Did I misunderstand? Woohoo.
I think she meant currently editing page 89
Happy New Year!
Wishing everyone a fabulous 2019!
Chandler let me sleep until 9:45 — sweet boy.
I’ve been working on SN all morning (on page 89)– it’s currently 8,000 words longer than WPF.
Did I mention that I’m tired? I have another hour before I have to be somewhere.
So happy you are on the mend Tracie. I saw my father last night. He’s doing great — just needs a cane now.
Hi girls….. Happy New Year ? 2019!!!
I hope that this new year is one of health and good vibes for all of you. December was a crazy month for me and I have not gone much to the blog but I’m following Laura by Instagram (great job Kate ??) every day is less to have in our hands SN, so excited!!!
Great news Tracie, you started the year with the right foot ?
A little bit late but…. Feliz Navidad
?
Linda, when you have time let us hear your thoughts on the ending. Hope to hear more from you until SN comes out. Last leg of the race so to speak. Feliz año nuevo! Also, I watch Maangchi on youtube for Korean food. Tell your mom she’s my favorite Korean cook on youtube.
Happy New Years!
Tracie it sounds like you are really doing well. It’s good to hear.
Katie I hope you like Torn and I don’t think he’s the man bun type. Lol
Janet it sounds like you entertained a lot of family during holidays. I know you are still agonizing over Kim. Me too. Sometimes I get so pissed off about Phil. I know he redeems himself I just hope I get satisfied in SN which I think we will.
Tara I think I have read most of the books you listed.
Good morning!
My daughter danced her first tooth out last night. That was an exciting end to NYE.
I do resolutions. Last year I desperately sought balance in my life, and I succeeded. I’ve never felt more balanced or content. Pretty cool. This year I need to get organized. And lose a few lbs.- standard.
I’m halfway into Torn. I like it, although sometimes the main guy Tor sounds like a woman talking. (Another thing Laura does well- male voice). He sounds smoking hot though. I’m not usually into long hair, but as long as he doesn’t put it in a man-bun, I’m cool.
Happy New Year, friends.
Good Morning Girls…Happy New Year:..Two Weeks Post Op today and walking some without the walker without limping….Yay….Hoping to be back to warp speed before long…Hope you girls are enjoying your day…
Happy New Year ?!
So good to hear you are walking a bit Trace. Couple more weeks and hopefully you can ditch the walker for good.
Still thinking about coexisting with Kim so nothing’s changed from last year to a new year. ? I have one final family get together this morning and I should be rid of them for a few months. Have a great day everybody.
That’s a major surgery, Trace. So glad you’re recovering well. ??
Nothing like seeing your dance moves through the movements of your 4yo. That and my dog jumping on my back like he’s stopping a seizure must mean I have quite the moves.
T- we painted plastic champagne glasses for our drinks.
J- no driving over Phil; he already did that to himself. Take a Valium.
✌️
LOL…Yes sister a Valium will do it and how true he did run over himself…but he is going to make it right:…Love Phil…
Love painting the glasses….you are such a good mama….
haha. Ok okay I will. bye you all
No on the run over..That made me shiver he is way to swoon worhy and sorry…I love him….
I forgot to answer your questions about Ned. . Ned did get to visit his daughter. Joseph put the nails in his coffin, just like Phil will do to Kim. You are special too sweetie and way on the other side of the spectrum from being a loser…?
I do try and make a few resolutions. Fewer the better so I don’t feel like a total loser. I know the things I need to work on next year. What is gourmet mac and cheese? Did you make it? I had cup ramen for dinner and getting ready for church. Now, I want Phil to be run over by Kim’s car. I need meds to settle down my hormones.
Kbabe that’s the way I see it happening too…BOOM back at you Lol….I don’t do resolutions I just take life one day at a time and do my best to enjoy it…now other people can screw it up for me LOL.,.That cracked me up…Wish I had some Mac and cheese. Did you get little H a fancy glass for her non alcoholic cider? Her need one! Mimi always got my babies special things like that…I use to tell them if they were going to hang with a Big Dog like their Mimi, they had to have the equipment Lol…..they ate it up….
I should drink more often. I feel good.
I’m eating gourmet Mac n cheese, chicken nuggets and crescent rolls.
I’m ready for the holidays to be over. I’m tired.
Do you girls do resolutions?
Re: Kim. I agree with Tara; leaving forever isn’t realistic. And Laura is QUEEN of realistic; that’s why we love her so much.
Kim’s still causing a reaction when SN starts…by the end she won’t. That’s closure in itself. Lina will become immune to Kim and her bullshit. Logan will forgive. Megan will fall from grace. Katie will continue to be cool. Kim will move on with a new dude…shared custody with majority to Phil. Boom.
You know, this may be the first book where I read the end before I even start the book…. just kidding. Sorry guys, sharing custody and I have to imagine kim picking Liam up from the Hunter’s house every other week? Did Ned do this with Joseph and Lia? I forget. Also, Ned genuinely loves his daughter and is a striver. Kim is neither. She’s in it for herself. She had Liam because of Phil not because she wanted a baby. What is the climactic scene??
Kim having a narcissistic personality and not getting the prize will be her penance…That will eat her alive for the rest of her life…
I changed my mind. I don’t want Kim to get the prince. I am back to having her floating down the potomac after Shiloh’s attackers are done with her. All this realistic talk isn’t giving me the warm and fuzzy.
Sure there can be redemption with Kim hanging on the sidelines. His redemption comes through Lina and his kids…Lina’s forgiveness is his redemption… Plus, he is fighting the witch in SN, to protect his family..She can be put in her place and still be around…Phil will put the nails in her coffin…just watch and see…
fine. but she needs to let Phil go.
also, yes on redemption but how about HEA? Turning the other cheek when Kim shows up like a bad penny is realistic but not HEA in my humble opinion.
Kim’s a narcissist.
Once she realizes Phil will never make her the center of his world, she’s going to need someone to feed her ego, someone that she will manipulate into making her his queen. She’ll move on and do it by choice. That doesn’t mean she won’t continue to push Phil’s buttons, just she’ll have other priorities.
It will be an HEA if Kim is sidelined and they share custody….Joseph and Lia got their HEA and Ned still got to visit..
I totally agree! Though Ned’s a moron, Kim’s not stupid.
Amen I agree with that J-Girl
Bahahaha I know right…..We need to check FedEx crate rates for Lina LOL….Have the witch shipped out on a rail…..
crate rates. You make me laugh. I’ll pay for her international duties and taxes personally. Ok. You know the climax is going to be a big one and it involves Kim. I’m positive about that. So what makes SN a redemption story? Laura even put this word in the description. Think about it. Can there be redemption with Kim around this family? Tara mentioned Kim as Phil’s penance for life. In real life, sure. In SN, not really because Laura said Kim needs to suffer and villains don’t usually stick around novels. She is not a bunny boiler but she is a humongous thorn in the Hunter’s household and most certainly the villain in this book. So what happens to the evil witch?
I think it’s the Catholic in me that sees penance, forgiveness and redemption as a package deal. When I think of her being his penance it’s about accepting the consequences of his behavior, we know this is already the case. But, think about it, if she’s not completely out of their lives, at some point Liam will have question about why he has 2 moms—more consequences, it won’t ever be gone completely. I’m okay with that, it makes things realistic.
Ultimately, I don’t see Phil, Lina and thei family dealing with Kim on a daily basis for the rest of their lives, but as Liam’s mother she will always be somewhere on the periphery.
Just curious… if Kim’s the villain of SN, who’s the villain in WPF? Thoughts??
I agree-yes periphery is fine. All said and done Kim is Liam’s mom and she’s not abusive towards him. I just don’t want Phil fighting forever for his family and until Kim lets Phil go he will always have his guard up.
are you pulling my leg?
That’s a good catch! Drew can be irresponsible, Brian is Nick’s son, and Shiloh is fragile. Kim could spin and expand and lie lie lie. The 3 paragraphs will turn into 30! And Matt can make an appearance. I want her gone Tracie. Gone to Alaska or to abu dhabi. Can she marry a Sheik and cause trouble in a different country? Tara, don’t read this post. lol
? ??
We all want her gone. I just don’t know if it’s a realistic expectation to think she’s going to be completely out of the picture. And, let’s be honest, even if they have full custody, she’ll keep showing up like a bad penny.
Kim: bye bye Liam. I didn’t like changing your diaper and I found a 35 yr old trillionaire somewhere. Mama will send expensive toys for Christmas because your birthday maybe too difficult for me to remember. And Phil, you are a loser douche and I finally woke up from my nightmare. You really aren’t good enough for me and you belong with the old wrinkly whatshername. What was I thinking? I really need to give Prince Ahmad an extra blowjob tonight for saving me from this hell. Have a miserable life together but just to make sure you remember me forever, I will be sending you a pink tie along with Liam’s presents till I die.
J-Girl I read Laura’s description on the 3 scenes she has to do….Laura’s going to love this one….What if she has to expand upon those individuals and relationships because Kim is trying to say that Lina’s family is to off the rails to have Liam around?
T: Tried saying no
I: Ignored suggestions guests limit
R: Reading Not so much
E: Eagerly waving bye bye
D: Damn sure never again
Best I can do here. Will Christmas season ever be over? It’s nightie night for me. Tomorrow my friends. Have a glass of bubbly for me or 2 or…..
I love you Deighj..:Happy New Year Sugar
LOL. Happy New Year everyone! I want this year over too. Never again sounds so good. One more for me tomorrow and I am a willing hermit. Katie’s NYE sounds perfect. I know how old I am but my mom’s making me attend midnight service. Good night ladies.
Thanks Kbabe…Makes those memories sugar, those babies grow up so fast….
Love you girls Happy New Year!
Hi girls, H and I are ready. NYE for two with my girl tonight. Lights in mason jars, gold and silver garland strands, puffy-painted plastic champagne glasses, horns, and hats; alcoholic and non-alcoholic bubbly in the fridge and popcorn ready to be popped. Woot! You’re not drinking alone if your kid is here right? Got myself some cheap Moscato.
Truly love all of you. Wishing you a fun and safe NYE!
Oh also Laura, is you have time to tell us, did the editor love the book as much as Jordan did? I’m positive but so curious to know if she fell in love with Phil like most of your bloggers here did. Did she cry?!
LOL — I have no idea. This was a different editor and all she said was “the novel is in great shape”. That’s all I got besides the actual edits. The two I have used in the past had lot of opinions — this one not so much.
Because you can’t add to perfection…You rock Laura….
I love you girls!
We love you too!?
Yesss! Do not mess with perfection. The editor is a robot. I’m so relieved Liam stays Liam and every word is intact. Lol. Thanks for making our day. Party on Wayne, party on Garth!
Who’s Drew Janet? I feel like I should know? Too many meds!
Drew is Lina’s father.
Thanks…I knew that name…They are giving me a medicine for nerve pain and it messes wirh my memory…Driving me nuts….I bet I couldn’t even quote my WPF Chapters…
Laura I’m so happy about the editor’s review and like Janet I’m so excited about the new scenes…. I’m so excited…..Thank you for all you do for us…
Ann hope you are over that cold…missed you too!
All of this! ??
Katie in Torn the main male character was best friends with the parents who had a baby when they were all teenagers. She grows up with him as an uncle type figure. He struggles throughout the book with not giving into his feelings for her.
Right, but wasn’t he in love with her mother when they were teens? I’m not that far in, but it felt Twilight for a minute.
Oh I forgot about that. I don’t think it s like twilight. It didn’t bother me and I hate love triangles. Keep reading..
Thanks Tracie I am feeling better. How are you doing? I hope you’re healing and feeling better.
Laura I second Tracie’s comment, thank you for your wonderful books and keeping this blog going!
I’m doing better Ann..My leg is getting stronger everyday. Two weeks post op tomorrow…Yay
I’m reading Torn by Carian Cole… Question- so I didn’t read the Twilight series, but my SIL made me go to all of the movies. Is this book headed in the direction of Twilight? Didn’t Jacob supposedly love Bella but he really was in love with her unborn child, Esme?
The dad’s friend and the daughter has always shared a connection. But the love on his part is more recent while the daughter has loved him forever? He has a complicated ex…
Hi girls. I’ve missed all of you, but between this damn cold and the holidays, I’ve been busy. We did go to a Ravens party yesterday at our friends house and it was a blast. My friends are devoted Ravens fans and everyone was yelling so loud I couldn’t believe it.
Trying to catch up on these posts from the last few days, and I can not even imagine in my mind Mr. Hunter going down on evil Kim. Yuck, makes me sick to think about it. I can’t even think about him kissing Kim. Screwing her is one thing, but kissing is personal.
I did read the Perfect Marriage and I liked it. I also liked Torn by Carian Cole which is the big age gap. I’m trying to find something new to read and just can’t find anything that hits me. I have so many on my TBR list too. I did read Unforgiven a while ago and I liked that.
Laura, any updates from the editor??
No way! That text was wishful thinking on Kim’s part!
There’s my voice of reason…Missed you last couple of days sister…Happy New Years Eve…Tell Jordan safe travel and don’t look any goof balls in the eye….
I feel like I haven’t had a moment and that will continue until Friday. Very happy about the Ravens win yesterday!
I have good news. I have the manuscript back from the editor. No deleted scenes. In fact she asked me to add three new scenes! Unfortunately I can’t get back to it until Friday. There were barely any edits which is great news
Hi Laura, so glad you are busy with family. Just don’t get sick!
I can’t wait for more scenes. Good editor! Can you tell us who will be in the scenes? Phil? Lol.
Happy new year everyone !
LOL — The new scenes are just background. A paragraph about how Nick could be Katie’s psychiatrist when their boys were best friends (have to explain that Brian and Logan met after Katie was with Nick), background on Drew and a scene with Shiloh. They were good catches
Who’s Drew?
Yes everything Tracie said. Thank you thank you for everything.
May be when Laura gets back there will be a scrap snippet or her editor deleted a hate Kim scene that she could share….I’d love one….Juat a few lines like your easy snippet we love so much….
Yesss. I so need that right now. I think we give Kim too much power. We need to do the mantras again. Keep us focused and not veer off in the next few weeks. My brother in law bought some pot brownie and they are all conked out except for me. Sheesh
You girls are killing me…If he did go down on her, he probably on did it once..it would of took gasoline to get that taste out of his mouth…Yuck, puck….ewww.
Thanks Katie Janet and I won’t sleep now… Lol…The text said you can wake me up with your tongue…I hate Kim……that says he did…Puke
do not group me here with Katie. I have anxiety again. Tracie, you were supposed to say he did not. I haven’t read it in awhile so I forgot the exact words. Let’s talk about something else tomorrow. Deighj will shit. I like unforgiven so far…
Maybe Laura will come through with some clarity. But she is very busy this week. Good night to you and your thoughts. ??
I know Janet I can’t stand it either, but hells bells he had an affair…we’ve moved on sweet girl….TeamPhil…..My loyalty is to you Mr. Hunter..
You are right J, Deighj will be scorching the earth…But I keep reading my BD scene over and over…..He was so hot in that scene and possessive….
I don’t thing I will be able to get through the whole book without talking to you girls…That will be fun, that would be a time when I wished we could conference call each other..
Laura miss you…figure you and Jordan are tearing up the town….
So scorch the earth. That makes me laugh. Thank you. Laura will say girls you have been busy with your crazy minds. No! Never!
What are you all reading now? Maybe it’s time for my goodnight moon snippet. I need hate Kim reinforcement
The Tennessee Titans head coach (Mike Vrabel) reminds me of Phil. Look him up, J.
Tracie, where you at? Phil and Kim- was anything sexual off-Limits?
Gross. He looks like a meat head. Sorry I just can’t agree with you regarding men. When I was younger I only liked John malkovich and tommy lee Jones. I think they are too old now and I am as well so I don’t have any fantasy men.
Tracie hates Kim as much as I do. She would say that would be off limits. I think Kim liked Phil being in control and she probably let him do whatever he wanted. In the texts she sounded almost docile. And now I’m remembering the texts. She said you can lick me awake. Die.
Right. But she wanted to paint a picture for Lina. Maybe he didn’t. He probably did. ?
More the build of that coach than the looks. Something about him reminded me of Phil.
He’s such a jock. I like reading about them but in real life I don’t find football players attractive. Physically water polo guys or swimmers are more appealing.
I need Phil to explain about the pictures ASAP. Like who took that bar scene picture? Was it a set up by Kim?
Haha. My husband is built like that. I used to be into swimmer builds- grew up around them. But you know what they say, once you go jock, you never go bock.
Don’t set your expectations too high. He did have an affair, and it was him in the photos. But Jordan says his explanation helps.
Look up Frank Mir. He’s an mma fighter. I think he’s hot.
OMG. I’m too old!! Leave me be with the likes of john Malkovich. You are sending me pictures of meat heads(but I love mma stories). I figured your husband is a hunk of meat. lol. Firefighters and cops are definitely alphas. I can only handle them in books. They are too much for me.
Oh they’re a bunch of pussy cats. The wives run shit at home.
Amen Katie…Me and my daughter-in-law run the train, we tell them when to blow the whistle…Lol
This things making me crazy. It refreshed on me twice and the first post didn’t show up, very weird.Tara
Haha.
Yes, Act Your Age reminded me. But I’ve been curious. Because Phil was always on top with Lina= control freak.
That’s why I want her on top, because of what it symbolizes.
With Kim, I imagine a lot of doggy and BJs. But I could see Kim being a demanding lover. I hope he didn’t with her- he’d need to wash his mouth out with bleach.
Tara, when did you read WPF?
I read it in May. I stumbled on Laura’s website when it was mentioned in a Facebook group that she was writing a sequel.
So, question.
In so many books, sex scenes are used to convey emotion, power, intimacy, etc. (e.g., position, intensity, duration).
Do you think Phil went down on Kim? That’s so intimate…
Waaaaaaahhhhhh. do not go there. Please god no. I didn’t even want him kissing her or have Kim in his bmw. Tracie joked that Phil should sell his car. I thinks she wedged her underwear between the seats. I hate him if he did. He didn’t! Lina, Nick is still waiting for you.
Do you think so? I’m going to have a nightmare… Phil is selfish though.
Also, I read Years long long ago. It’s good.
Years?
Karie—did Act Your Age trigger that question?
I’m going to be honest, I don’t like thinking about them having sex. The whole thing feels wrong. Which is weird because I don’t hate it in other cheating stories.
Katie—did Act Your Age trigger that question??
And I’d like to think it would have been to intimate, but thinking about sex between them is, frankly, gross—and leaves me feeling uncomfortable. Which is weird as I don’t have problems with sex in other cheating stories.
Yay! Katie and I are friends on goodreads. Happy hunting Kbabe. I just keep TBR for my records. Some I have read and some never make the list but I do go on couple times a week to read reviews. There’s a girl named Nikki. She loves taboo I think.
Yay! I have read hundreds of books. I linked to my amazon books but I don’t remember half of them enough to rate. I rated like 25. Hello, Goodreads!
Phil would so take Logan to the Division Playoffs! I’m just saying Lol
Congrats to the Ravens…Division Champs!!!!
Chatty Cathy here today. Do you guys like m/m romance? I don’t read many but I like kindle Alexander. One is always the playboy/more experienced and the other is usually more innocent. All have some angst and longing. Love her.
I know Katie doesn’t read athlete NA genre so much but I love athletes and rock stars too. Loved am madden’s back up series(evil OW is there) and Sara Ney’s wrestling series. Any recs on these two themes?
Not a huge fan of m/m, but LOVED Kate Canterbary’s Fresh Catch. All her books are great! Honestly, I read just about anything… NA, sports, rock star, MC, etc. Have you read Kylie Scott (rock star), Kristen Callihan (sports and rock star series) or JM Darhower?
Katie, JM Darhower has a couple of age gap books. Dahlia West has a couple of age gap stories in her Burnout series—one of theme had a BDSM kink thing that was a little TMI for me, but the series still worked for me.
Thank you. I’ll check them out.
I would do this. Your favorite book is TL swan so read a few reviews and the ones you like you can start following them. Like you, some may love the age gap theme or taboo theme. I found most cheating theme book by following Geri and share her taste in books. You can follow me but I don’t give reviews. However I follow good authors and reviewers
and my TBR pile is huge. It’s jp. If you go on WPF reviews look for 5 star by Jp 7 months ago. I think there may be more than one JP but my editing was 7momths ago. Request to be friends and you can follow everyone I’m following. The book recs alone are more than worth it. I never knew about self published authors till 3 yrs ago
My rating was 7 months ago. Not editing.
@laurabranchflowerfan
Shoot, you girls are ahead of me.
I read Act Your Age…I didn’t particularly like the daddy-daughter fetish thing, but otherwise it was great. Like in Wanting Me. Cane how he calls her “little one.” Eh, erm, hmmm, just not sure about that. Otherwise, hot!
I’m not normally into the Daddy thing, in fact this is probably the only one I’ve liked. I loved his reactions when he realizes she’s left Australia and while reading her letter, and their reunion date night at his home, so many feels!
I loved when he was writing his story and realized he loved her; and had loved her for a long time. Sweet love story.
Katie, do you read historicals? Lavyrle Spencer’s Years is wonderful, takes place in North Dakota in 1918. They have a 16 year age gap.
Not too much to be honest.
Have you read Without You Here by Carter Ashby? That’s another taboo age gap. I really liked that one.
My favorite of all time after Laura’s Sense of Belonging is Mr. Masters by TL Swan.
Obviously love Sense of Belonging and Mr. Masters is a definite WOW! I read Without You Here last week, I read it the last time you mentioned it—Quite good.
Yikes. I can’t do that word. Why does she call him daddy? Is that his fetish?
Mutual fetish. I was happy to read it wasn’t rooted in incest, but still, a little weird to me. The story would’ve been just as good without that.
That sounded much more judgmental than I intended. I’m super open minded- that’s just not my thing. No judgment or assumptions from me! ?
Scream daddy all you want!
Ok I just saw on insta. Great job!! So I think Laura should send the arc to Geri reads-dirtyromance. Some bloggers won’t read cheating theme. Geri likes them and her reviews are fair. You really should do goodreads. I have discovered so many authors this way. Actually the whole NA genre, I found through goodreads.
What should I do on goodreads? I have an account but very very rarely go on. Today I looked at an age gap list on there. First time in months.
Can you tell me Laura’s Instagram page again? I want to see who is following. I can look on my daughters account.
Regarding soulmates, I believe in hard work and commitment if the couple share the same vision and goals. Remember what I said about Chris rock and how two cokeheads can stay together forever?
Thanks for saving me from that book, girls. I’m starting a taboo age gap instead. They never let me down.
So, I do believe in meant to be. But I also think even soul mates have to put a lot of work into a lifelong relationship. Passion ebbs and flows.
Janet, needlecrafts are a dying art. Your daughter sounds uber cool. I can sew and use looms, but nothing with needles. I want to learn with my daughter.
Tracie, if I never broke up with Tony Prossi, how would he have been available for Casey?
I honestly don’t know if I’ll ever find a book boyfriend better than Tony. Sigh.
No crochet or knitting needles that is.
Taboo age gap?? Please tell ?
I love to crochet, but find my hands go numb while doing it these days, I guess it’s a touch of carpal tunnel.
Yes, like dad’s best friend, boyfriend’s dad, etc. Teacher/student is good too, but I feel like that is it’s own subgenre.
If it’s done right, it’s not weird.
I just started Torn by Carian Cole (dad’s best friend- 15 years older). Can’t say if it’s great or not, but it was high on the Goodreads list.
Birthday Girl by Penelope Douglas is great (boyfriend’s dad- no cheating, 20 years older I think)
I also liked Wanting Mr. Cane (dad’s best friend- 17 years older).
You haven’t heard? Age gap is my jam!
I love age gap stories. I’ve read Torn, Birthday Girl and Wanting Mr. Cane. I was hoping you might be reading something I haven’t read yet.
Have you read Eve Dangerfield’s Act Your Age? It’s a double taboo story—age gap and BDSM. SO GOOD! And I’m not really into BDSM, but this one was great!
Ooh let me look. Never heard of this author.
Tell me if you like carian cole. I loved that one. I liked her younger man older woman one too. Forget the title but it’s that whole family.
Also I’m like Janet When Life Happened wasn’t very good for me…I didn’t like the twist…
Girls first of all if I had Tony Prossi there would be no Ex about it, we would be like the Concord breaking the speed of sound constantly….Yum A….I do believe there is someone for everyone…Kbabe I believe in timing as well. Phil saw Lina across a dance floor and knew she was his one and only love. I believe the connection you talk about is the soulmate factor…It’s not always easy with my husband, but he’s worth the effort….I read something in a book one time where the h mom didn’t believe in wedded bliss, she called it wedded work…That I ? percent agree with…
Janet, my love, you didn’t answer your own question about soul mates…
Destined, soul mates? It makes life sound too easy. Long term love takes work and commitment.
Everything will be explained in SN. We get to see Phil’s POV and see a different side to him that we weren’t exposed in WPF. Like Laura’s daughter said Phil’s not for us but he’s perfect for Lina. Shouldn’t that satisfy us since we want HEA?
Here’s a question for Sunday. Do you guys believe in soulmates in real life?
That’s an interesting question. I believe in connection. How you can connect with someone as if you’ve known them for your whole life, or in another life- doesn’t necessarily have to be romantic.
As far as in romantic relationships, I feel like my husband and I were meant to be. If I bored you with our whole story, you’d agree I think. It has always been so easy with us. I guess I’m hesitant to use the term soul mate- that seems a cliche.
Life can be hard- love, loyalty, understanding, and respect of a partner should be easy. If they aren’t, I don’t think the couple is meant to be.
You did tell us the story. You guys are meant to be.
Well there’s more. His sister went to school with my best friend. His sister and I have stories from the same parties, but we never met. I played sports with a kid of his family’s friends. And here’s the big one. I was born in the same hospital as his sister, one day apart. We never met, never knew of each other. Then we met- in a different county.
So we could’ve met at many times in our lives, but we never could’ve worked, because of age, or being in other relationships, etc. I’m sure we unknowninflg crossed paths many times. But we actually met when the timing worked.
I also believe in timing.
Damn, Laura needs to write a book based on us. ? Except she can put Tony Prossi in there as my older HS love, as a flashback. My actual boyfriend in HS was also named Tony.
Lol you wish Tony was your ex. We all do. What a nice story. Timing really is a huge factor how couples get together or not. Thanks for sharing!
I totally believe soulmates are real Janet!
I just finished Desperate Wife. I’m glad they got back together- he seemed to learn his lesson, seemed truly remorseful. It was best for the kids. In this one, I feel like he justified his affair by convincing himself he was in love with the girl, but it was really just another lustful physical affair. Loving her made destroying his family worth it in his head. But she really just symbolized the affection and closeness he missed with his wife. The second the mistress started talking marriage and babies he seemed to emerge from the fog.
I’ll still never understand how someone can say they’ve been unhappy for years and that’s why they cheated. Uh, you didn’t think to mention that to your spouse?
Anyway.
I liked this one.
I just bought a different kind of book- finger knitting projects. I’m going to get my daughter started knitting, first without needles. We are going to make an octupus for her cousin on the way.
I’m so over parties as this point. I declined all invites for New Years. My husband works, so I bought some cheap wine and sparkling cider, and my daughter and I will have our own party.
What are you girls up to?
I’m starting When Life Happened by Jewel E Ann next. Anyone read it?
Oh don’t read that! Do you know what it’s about? There’s a huge plot twist. Couldn’t get over it. I love jewel e Ann. Did you read undeniably you or look the part?
I read Look the Part. I like her. When Life Happened came up as best in 2018 from a blogger I follow. Although it’s from 2017… I didn’t look much into the plot. It doesn’t sound that bad?
It’s not bad. She’s a crazy good writer. But there’s a plot twist. If you don’t mind the heroine with 2 men(not at same time) then ok. I have harder time with those because I don’t like investing my time with one character only to realize it wasn’t meant to be. If you want to read it just go in blind but I think you know what I’m saying. Btw I love octopus ?. So cute about knitting. My daughter is self taught knitter and chrocheter.
Booooo. I’ol pass. I’m glad I asked.
Did you read her older ones Only Trick? Undeniably you and the holding you trilogy? The holding trilogy is an angst fest but good. Mean OW in this too.
I don’t like it when people tell me go in blind. This happened with One Day by David Nicholls and I was so so mad when the girl died at the end. I felt cheated! There’s that word again. At least when you read Nicholas sparks we pretty much know one or the other MC dies.
I started Elizabeth Finn’s
Unforgiven. She’s another good writer.
Who is the blogger you follow? Natasha the book junkie?
Oh I don’t even remember. I follow quite a few on the Instagram I run for Laura.
When Life Happened is a curious book. Definitely has an unexpected plot twist. My issue with the story wasn’t the plot twist and the 2 men. It was her relationship with her sister and mother—her sister’s betrayal and her mom’s “you need to accept and move on.” They all needed massive amounts of therapy to get past that train wreck of dysfunction.
Sounds terrible. Pass.
Hi Ladies!
Emotional vs physical cheating… for me I could never have a physical relationship without at least being emotionally in lust.. and please note and underline lust.
And yes.. I think you can be emotionally in lust with another person… like Phil he doesn’t necessarily treat Kim like a prostitute.. (complete agreement with Tracie… a convenience… it could be any other woman pretty and willing enough)
he admires her at some point and respect her.. but totally different level of feelings he has for Lina… kind of infatuated maybe… fleeting feelings that’s it… like Lina and Nick.. she is emotionally in lust with him (also physically too haha).. but not in love..
So for the hubby in the desperate wife it’s more about him emotionally in lust and him not wanting to be wrong about following his lust… (deluding himself that it is love) but I wasn’t really rooting for them to get together… I really hated the husband at a point… but with Phil and Lina from the moment the phone scene between Phil and Kim that Lina overheard I was totally rooting for both of them to get together.. and I actually hated both Kim and Nick for getting in the middle of things hahaha…
So will I forgive cheating? I think it really depends on the grovelling (hahaha) and how much we want the marriage and love to be salvaged… if your partner is in love with another and not in love with you anymore.. would there be anything to save (or even forgive)?
Anyways happy new year everyone!
I love you J-Girl….I would say convenient Physical sex more than calculated. Those text messages are the onesKim wanted Lina to see and remember how cold and almost demanding they were…Apartment, got an hour…etc…Now if Phil would of said “baby I miss you need to be inside of you. I have an hour, please meet me sweetheart….Then you got a problem…That is emotional and feelings have come part of the fore play. Phil couldn’t conger up those feelings for Kim, because even though he and Lina were feeling a bit numb toward each other, his heart belonged to Lina.
Ok. I know Ms T. You told me a dozen times and I questioned and wavered dozen more. It still bothers me-that chapter. Phil likes to be in control but he trusted Kim enough to take care of the protection side and lusted after her for the 4 months. I would have an easier time if he sought out 5 in rotation and didn’t sleep the whole night with Kim. Like after a few rounds send her back to her room. I would have liked that. anyway you still on the fence about full custody? I think about 3-4 weeks left before our sticky hands are on SN. Are you a bit better today vs yesterday? I got new vitamjn for my joints and thought of you this am
I feel better everyday J….They have me on so many meds for the first 30 days it ridiculous. I’ve slept most of the day to day. I can understand the 5 in rotation Lol…Phil had never done anything like this before and she was making herself so convenient he stayed with what he had…I bet the picture scene explains a lot to us about the overnight sleeps, etc…I just remember when Phil was telling Lina about the affair and Lina asked if he loved her and Phil said “No God No”……Ugh I just can’t wait to read SN….
That’s a really good point. Phil has never done this before. That was spot on.
Ok yes sleep is the best meds. 30 is 20 more than I take. I literally have to stuff my stomach before I take my dailies so I can’t imagine what you have to eat before yours. I like sweet potato or chestnuts in the morning. It keeps the pills down(Incase you are tired of toast)
Kbabe I believe Phil treated her like he would any other woman. with respect and charm…However, the breakup scene showed me that she took liberties in the office and he allowed it, because she would give him a blow job and a piece of ass. Phil could of cared less if Kim fell off the planet. She was a convenience he selfishly enjoyed, until he really took the time to look at Lina in Chapter 1 and realized how much he loved and appreciated his wife..The breakup scene also showed me his immediate regret….
Happy Saturday.
What I’m getting at is that, we can say we can forgive physical cheating but emotional cheating is harder to forgive. But, really, I think that’s because we can understand an emotional affair, but don’t want to. We are romantics. We believe in the universe bringing people together, love at first sight, meant to be. To not “accept” an emotional affair is actually contradictory to what we believe in romance. It’s not impossible that the universe could’ve got it wrong and soulmates are found outside a marriage. But we are (mostly) married women- that idea is hard to stomach.
So, Tara, I think you’re right, emotional cheating is easier to understand.
I’m just trying to upset everyone with this, clearly. I love when books make me ponder.
What this means for me in real life, I have no idea. I certainly hope to never find out.
Ok so I have a question Katie that makes Tracie and Laura mad. When Phil was texting Kim at nights about planned encounters the following day, he was just thinking about sex and not Kim in particular? So that’s not emotional cheating but just calculated physical cheating? You’re making me confused again. Emotional cheating is easier to understand yet harder to forgive?
Ok so this is how I see it. Physical cheating is harder for me to understand- it seems so deliberate (what? Your dick got hard, your pants fell off, she did a somersault and hit the bullseye?)-but it’s easier to forgive. No emotions. Emotions are scary.
Emotional cheating is opposite. Easier to understand- attraction and love are involuntary. But much harder to forgive. Emotions are scary.
Probably opposite for men.
There’s a spectrum of cheating. Purely physical cheating is sleeping with prostitutes. Phil wasn’t doing that. An emotional affair is falling in love. There’s a lot in between.
I think any affection between Phil and Kim was just par for the course of a workplace affair. Phil isn’t a monster, Kim isn’t a prostitute. He had to keep her sweet because he wanted to keep banging her. He’s charming. He respected her as a person and as an attorney. I’m sure there was flirting, touching…obvious premeditation. But it wasn’t ever love or anything close to that.
I absolutely do not think Phil stayed awake at night thinking, “shit, I’m falling for this girl.” But I DO think he sat awake at night thinking, “shit, is really like to drown my sarrows in her wet pussy.” The texts and preplanned meetings were born from the latter thought process.
Boom!
Oops, shoulda read it before posting. Edit:
“I’d like to drown my sorrows…”
Lol then scowl but I understand. Don’t like it but I agree with you.
Katie, I love this post. It’s been repeatedly said it was just sex for Phil, but I don’t completely buy this. Once or twice would be just sex, but planning made it a relationship, a sexual one, not remotely about love, but definitely a relationship. He wasn’t in love, but he was certainly in lust and he must have liked her to spend 4 months having sex with her.
Janet,
I’m taking your question within the context of a “cheating” story and not real life.
In real life I’m not sure I would forgive emotional or just physical cheating. But, within the context of a story, I find emotional cheating easier to understand and easier to forgive. It’s logical to me that if a man thinks he’s fallen in love with another woman, he’s going to move into a sexual relationship. If then he realizes “yikes I’ve made a huge mistake, I need to fix this,” then I hope the author can provide a believable redemption. I think A Perfect Marriage is a good example of this.
I have a harder time understanding physical cheating with no emotional involvement. Somethings not working at home, so he takes his toys elsewhere to play? He hasn’t fallen out of love with his wife and he’s not fallen in love with the other women. He loves his wife but is willing to risk everything for sex? It’s not logical, but again like in an emotionally involved cheating, I want the author to bring me through the situation and believe forgiveness and trust is possible.
So saying this, I don’t think one is easier to forgive than the other, I just think emotionally involved cheating is easier to understand.
I really need to proof read before hitting post. Emotion cheating is easier to understand, but not necessarily easier to forgive.
J, Katie another cheating book I read every so often is A Perfect Marriage by Laurie Bright. For being a cheater the guy is honorable.
J on the Cold Mountain book by Frazier did you mean the beginning of CM reminded you of The Desperate Wife?
Hi Deighj. I was referring to the covers only. I have a perfect marriage but haven’t started yet. I think I got it after you and Ann recommmeded. I did read some bad reviews how the husband has sex with the wife becasue he was turned on by the mistress. I don’t mind it the other way around but I didn’t like this part.
Deighj, I often recommend A Perfect Marriage. It’s a very satisfying read.
Never mind J, I just read your post. Nice, well stated, especially next to my almost incoherent rant lolz.
That was funny as shiz. I love it when you go off the rails schooling the cheaters. lol I’m going to remember the day visitation without OW only.
Ah Katie I agree with Tracie in that a physical relationship is far easier to forgive than an emotional affair.
What if your husband chose to move out rather than give up the OW how would you feel? A man would have to feel strongly for the OW to destroy his family.
What if your husband had an affair but given an ultimatum broke it off. On the first one I’d find a ball busting lawyer the next next day and have all bank accounts locked after drawing money for my needs. The second one I ‘d always be watching him, serious couples therapy would ensue.
Lordy but that book still makes me mad every time I read it. And the fact she let her children stay weekends with the husband and OW? I’d have gone to court for day visitation only without the OW being around my children. Have you gotten to the scene where the wife runs into the husband and OW in town yet, the way he treated his wife? Shoo I get white hot about that book. Sorry how disjointed my comments are but I’m pissed all over again
J what are your thoughts on this book? I think you’ve read it?
Shoot. I forgot about the girls staying with the husband and OW. I just remember the hate when the wife saw them at the restaurant and then later bumping into them while holding hands. The OW was not evil like Kim though and the guy was nothing like Phil.
Hey all. The book is legit nice. I have a hardback of cold mountain by Charles Frazier and it looks similiar to that at first glance. I love it.
Tracie and Tara, I read your last posts. Both are hard to answer and Kbabe’s thoughts are even harder for me. I can’t see Laura punishing Phil forever as his penance. I think dealing with the nutso for 3 years was enough of a punishment no? Kim out of the picture may be a neat ending but I honestly cannot see Hunters being happy with Kim in the picture so I came up with that scenario. Can they shrug Kim off by saying, oh theres that psycho going off on her rants again? Kim can’t be handled with nonchalance because what she was to Phil(even if she was only a distraction) and because she wants to destroy their marriage. That’s why I want her gone. If I were Lina, I wouldn’t want to see Kim’s face ever again. Since Lina is a better person than I, maybe she can look the other way for Liam.
Tracie, Lina doesn’t need to explain herself to Kim. Kim doesn’t hear anything if Lina’s doing the talking. She will never understand why Phil chose Lina over her because it’s not in her to understand that. I say she will have to lose interest in Phil in order for her to let go of her obsession. I was never obsessed with a person but I tend to obsess over things or ideas and its’ like hear no evil see no evil. I can only imagine Kim’s level of obsession with Phil.
Katie, emotions are rooted and physical cheating is fleeting.
They can’t be happy with Kim in the picture?
What choice do they have? Like it or not she’s there, on some level she will always be there, no matter the custody situation. Reality is she’s Liam’s mother, you can’t get away from that. And, that’s what I mean by she’s his penance. They will love Liam as much as their other 3 children but Phil will always regret that Liam isn’t Lina’s and that’s his penance.
So, as a Catholic Phil should understand that penance is ultimately about forgiveness. He brought Kim into there lives and will deal with her as long as necessary to protect his family and by doing this he deserves forgiveness.
Yes but she’s not a normal OW. If she wasn’t set on destroying Phil and lina’s marriage I would say the same. Deal with your repercussions. But Kim isn’t normal. she’s obsessed with Phil and wants to destroy his marriage. How can she stay in the novel if she doesn’t let Phil go? With Kim it’s about winning… how do you see it end?
Kim’s a narcissist, everything is about her, but is she bunny boiling crazy? Maybe, but I don’t think so. I have no idea where Laura’s taking the story, but I believe “realistic” has been used to describe it. So, I don’t know how realistic is it to believe Kim will be gone for good? I like to think she’ll move on to another man she considers bigger and better and walk away from Liam and the Hunters.
Short of killing her off, what would keep her away for good?
Oh that’s what I said no? When I say gone I don’t mean dying.
So here’s a think question.
I was traumatized by unknowingly starting a book about a kinky fetish I’m not into, and I needed a palate cleanser…so I picked a good ol’ clean cheating book. The Desperate Wife (formerly Torn Up Marriage). I’m not done but I know from spoilers how it ends, and now I’m thinking about it.
So in this one the guy has an affair with his secretary and falls in love with her. The wife gives him an ultimatum to dump the mistress/stay or leave forever, and he goes to live with his mistress. Change of heart, he comes home, I think.
Now, we always talk about “degrees” of infidelity. Such as, a purely physical one-night stand is better than a longer term physical relationship is more forgivable than a “dating” affair, and falling in love with a mistress is not redeemable.
Why exactly is opening his pants worse than opening his heart, if he comes back to his family in both cases?
Oops. Opening his heart worse than his pants.
Opening your heart means you are offering affection. Opening your pants means your offering a distraction…
Right. But if the husband comes around in both cases, declaring he made a huge mistake, why is one harder to forgive? Universally it seems women are more likely to forgive fucking versus falling for another woman. I want to know the deeper reason why.
An emotional affair for me, would drag me down…That’s when I would wonder if he’s thinking about her, does he love her or does he want to protect her, etc….Physically I can do anything she can do sexually we have the same parta, but I can’t make his heart love or need me…
btw, I liked that book. I thought the husband was redeemable even though I hated him more than 60% of the book.
What do you mean deeper reason why people forgive? If you can’t live without them you have to forgive. gawd. I’ll kill him first. lol
I’m not going to make sense but I’ll try. Physical cheating is biological. “Must mate” in my best ape voice. So, easier to forgive. Even though it’s so much more complicated (you know, things like loyalty, fucking self-control). But ok, let’s simplify for this discussion.
But, love, now that’s scary and unpredictable. We are romantics- we believe love at first sight is real, love makes you do crazy things, love is powerful. Love can make a man leave his family. So anything even closeiy resembling love or any kind of affection makes us less forgiving.
Janet, I like The Desperate Wife too. I like being in his head, particularly on Christmas morning when Michael realized he was trying to save the wrong relationship and was split from Sophie that night.
Katie and Tracie,
The emotion versus distraction thing… distraction really pisses me off, things get tough so instead of working at fixing it, he goes elsewhere for sex—not good enough reason to cheat.
I find the emotional attachment more acceptable reason for cheating, not that it’s right. Love and lust seem to go hand in hand in emotional attachment stories, and when he realizes it really isn’t love and wants to fix what’s was broken it seems more forgivable for me.
Having said that in real life I can’t see myself forgiving a cheater. But, when an author gets it right, I can and want to believe in the HEA.
Katie, Phil is an animal is what I got out of your comment. Lol
I’m so glad she is getting to stay…I love doing things with my daughter…You girls have fun…Do you have a big New Years Planned?
My sister is having a party. I really need to stop eating. I’ve felt too full for days. Do you have plans?
No I’m home bound for three weeks on the walker and home health says I can’t leave the house except for doctors appointments or insurance doesn’t pay them. I still fatigue pretty easily and my leg is still sore and swollen. I’ll try to make up for it next year….Eat and be Merry that is what the holidays are for…Lol….
What insider info do you have Lol….Did Jordan head back home today?
I have her until the 31st ?. We have family from California arriving tomorrow and staying until next Saturday. Busy couple of weeks