418 Comments on “New Conversation — Hunters and other things!”
Wow, just finished reading the new conversation!! The next book will be about Logan??? I’m so excited!! Logan is my favorite character in the entire Hunter-verse. A war correspondent? I can totally imagine him being like that! Sensitive and Assertive! Laura, you’re amazing.🧡
Zainecruise, congrats on the academic achievement!
I haven’t been able to keep up. Just happy to read everyone’s comments! I’m preparing for Phd qualifying exam…wish me luck😮💨
I want to add that emotional cheating is in general on par with physical cheating about the damages done to the relationship. Or it could even be worse. However, Lina’s case is a bit different. I think she is a spiritual person so she always connects with people on an emotional level. During Katie’s turmoil, she got no emotional support from Phil because Phil does not like psychology and as Laura explained, at the time he didn’t even have the emotional capacity to help Lina, Katie and himself. That’s the growth he achieved in SN. So Lina used Nick (unprofessionally) as an emotional crutch for a while. Then the line got blurred enough and it became an EA.
One thing that tortures me to this day is the indefinite possibility (alternative universe) that Phil (as he is a principled man) would give Kim special treatment for being the mother of his son if Kim weren’t a diva. I hope not. He is a typical a-hole alpha right?? No friendly relationship with the bio parent or thoughtful sophistication to maintain the cordial facade. I’m so torn. I feel that irl plentiful of separated couples don’t have any communication with the other parent. Only pick-ups and logistics. No need (even amicable separation) to be emotionally invested in a relationship with Kid’s bio mom or dad. Phil is that type right??
Hi Berenice…I was wondering what you mean by “special treatment.” I was a co-parenting mother and i had no relationship with my ex or communication unless it concerned our daughter.
Phil would have been the same way with Kim. There would have been no buying her Christmas gifts so Liam could give her one etc. Phil would have went by their legal custody and support agreement period and would have answered calls or messages regarding Lima only. Even if she wasn’t a diva, he still would not have had an overly friendly relationship with her. I think to him that would have been disloyal to Lina, nor would Lina have been open to that type of relationship with Kim. Liam would have been his interest only!
Phil was an alpha, but not an a-hole one, but as you said a principled one.
Hi Tracie,
Thanks for the answer! I was reading some posts ranting about co-existing “peacefully” with partners’ Ex or AP with whom they shared a child. Many tender moments could happen between parents unpromptedly. It just got me thinking if Kim is normal and there’s no nasty fallouts, how Phil gonna handle that? Like, it wasn’t because Kim was special but Liam made Kim special in Phil’s world (son’s mother). I completely agree that gift-giving during holiday seasons or other cordial scenarios would have been disloyal to Lina. Sigh, I know Phil maintained his boundaries firmly!
I think Logan will grow up to be a war correspondent or a photo journalist that spends a lot of time overseas. Of course, Lina will hate his career choice. He will be basically live out of a backpack for the decade after college. And then the novel begins…
Yes, I think our adult Logan will be commitment averse. And it will a direct result of the what he went through as a teenager. Don’t worry, I like happy endings.
Will Phil recognize Logan’s aversion to commitment Laura? I know Lina would pickup on it.
Let your mind run doll….you will rock it!
Good question – I don’t know. As you said, Lina would definitely understand and see the correlation. It’s a touchy subject – she wouldn’t want to point it out to Phil – he can’t change what he did and it would kill him to think his actions changed the trajectory of Logan’s life in such a profound way. I guess we will have to see. Our Phil doesn’t dwell on things and doesn’t like psychology so I’m thinking no, but he may surprise me.
Our Phil recognizes hurt in his children. A specific for me was when Logan asked him if he would ever cheat on Lina again. Phil said the hurt in his sons eyes broke his heart. Our Phil wouldn’t dwell and he wouldn’t recognize the hurt unless Logan showed it. I’m really starting to recognize now Logan may well be a complex H.
Oh, I am so curious- who will be the woman that will cure him from this aversion.
Just off the cuff…she’ll be a strong independent woman. I see him being drawn to a woman that would have similar traits to his mother. Which if I had to pick just two of Lina’s traits, they would be her creativity and her amazing ability to nurture.
So happy to hear this. I was late to these books and I have had a year long obsession with the Hunter family!
I finished the books 3 months ago but the characters stayed with me. There were some answers I wanted to ask to understand something. I felt like some details needed to get out of the way before the path to forgiveness became clear. but I was afraid to ask since I don’t know how the author would react to me asking something that she has already answered numerous times. But I am glad I took the chance and come to the blog. After reading responses from Esra Zaincruise and Tracie since their comments were more like explanatory than quizzical, I understand the situation better and I was glad Phil was not invested in to Kim on personal level though I hated he let her share his bed in NYC. You girls are doing great job Thank you so much for your comments to make the picture clear. If I have said something that was offensive please forgive me.
Hi Ella!
Thanks for your comment. Don’t worry this is a judgment-free zone. We all have a right to dislike or like the characters and the way the story unfolded. As Tracie pointed out below, the characters take on a life of their own when I’m writing. They sometimes surprise me.
Having said that, I might defend them if you choose to criticize them – they are my babies 😊..
I know this is gonna be a awesome Laura!
Although I will try to be patient but I would be lying if I say I am not dying to get my hands on Logan’s book. LOL.
Thanks Ella and Welcome!
If you scroll down a little further you will find Tracie explanation on that particular part you hate(or maybe you have to hunt down her comment on that one in other discussion topics, I don’t know but once you do you will have the answer and to many others as well.)it’s gonna be a win win situation for you.
I hope Esra you are done with your rereading for the report I can’t wait to see wait to see what grade you gonna get after pulling all-nighters for over a month. Good luck girl!
Thanks Laura!
But after spending days and hours with Phil Laura he and I have created a very special bond. Getting into his mind in SN and putting myself in his shoes had made me receptive to his pain his guilt, the man has suffered enough. Please let his fling with Kim be a thing of past I don’t want it looming above their head. But of course it is something I want doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen that way.
Zaincruise I will ace it I am pretty confident about it.
Ella thanks for liking my rants and ramblings. LOL
Thank you so much Zaincruise and Laura for welcoming me.
I had initially thought I was probably the only one coming down with Hunter’s fever but seeing so many comments I am revealed! phew Thank God I ‘m not the only crazy one here.
I had so many questions before but after reading responses from all of you I am in a better place and at peace finally!
Cheating is a trigger of mine I have never read books with that topic ever because I know once I do I won’t be able to get it out of my head. I read these book on whim to change my taste. I became so invested into this story that I was not able to eat and sleep from sometime.
I know it was about overcoming infidelity but my brain was tangled up in why when and how so much. I don’t want to bore you guys with my sappy story but you see my husband cheated on me and left me after two years of marriage for someone else. Their story felt personal to me but of course Phil loves Lina, nothing like my ex-husband. Comments from Tracie, Zaincrusie, Esra and you Laura were like balm to my soul as you guys broke the situation bit by bit. I was finally able to understand that it was a story of two people who immensely loved each other. THANK U SO MUCH! for being sensitive enough to understand and expounding it enough for readers like me.
I would love to read more about Hunter’s family Please let me know as soon as the new book comes out so I can immediately buy it.
Ella – I’m sorry you had to experience such a betrayal. The entire idea for these stories came after a very good friends husband left her for another woman.
I felt Lina’s pain every step of the way.
When Lina cried, I cried. It was tough book to write. An editor told me the readers usually feel the same emotions as the writer. For someone who has experienced something similar, I’m sure the feelings are magnified.
I can promise you I would never write a story with infidelity again.
I find that time is the only healer in these situations. I hope you are doing well now.
Phil is a character I don’t hate (surprisingly) but I was obsessed with details of his affair for my own personal reasons to reassure myself that he wasn’t anything like my ex husband even during that time (it might sound absurd but we readers are very possessive about our MCs)but at the same time I was respectful of your choice to not write about the ugly details.
When I came here I was prepared to beg you to share all of those with me or else I would keep torturing myself over something that might not be true. But thankfully I didn’t have to restore to that since some of your readers have already done that for me (albeit unknowingly)
As much as I hate the pain you had to go through I am glad it was you who wrote it. You handled the topic very aptly and expertly Laura. Oddly I feel good and better now. As Hermione granger said in Harry potter: ‘Fear of a name only increases the fear of the thing itself’
You are very unique and beautiful inside out Laura. We need more people like you to make this world a beautiful place.
I am sure no matter what topic you will choose to write, it is going to be awesome and great.
I love Phil and Lina they have became my most favourite couple. God! I know they are not real but they feel real to me.( what’s wrong with me) 😔
Oh Ella honey nothing is wrong with you. Laura was so exceptional at creating these characters she made them real to all of us. I was desperate for her to write SN I lived and breathed the Hunters for two years straight. I still associate them with books I read and can’t wait for the next time Laura opens their lives to us again. If you go back to the original blog, when we first started you will see where Janet and I literally begged for her to write SN. It will probably make you laugh at how desperate we were..I mean that literally desperate…🤪
I second that Tracie and Ella! Laura has this innate ability to bring her characters alive with just words. We all love Phil so damn much there’s nothing wrong with you.
I feel so great to Tracie and Janet that these two girls had already done the hard work for us. Imagine reading WPS without SN(shudders) can’t even think about it.
I feel so honored and grateful that some of my words were able to make you see something clearly but then again credit goes to Laura because as an author she never left her readers in the dark. We were able to expound it because of her help.
I hope you are in a good place right now.
A quick reply from my side Ella; he shared her bed but did not let her share his bed ever. He did not cuddle her he slept on his side and she on hers. He didn’t sleep over at her place except the nights they had to fly to NYC for two or three times.
Zaincruise! I did asked Simone that question you know despite it not being part of my case study. She said it’s 100x more intense+satisfying if you are doing it with someone you love and had this deep connection with vs doing it with someone you have no emotional ties with. And funny things is you don’t need to be a sex therapist to know that. LOL.
Hey!!!! You should have trusted me on that one….we and Berenice have already discussed this at length. You were in on that conversation if I remember correctly. But of course you had to go and ask the expert about it.😏
For that I think Laura meant what Lina decided not what actually happened. GOT IT!!! Get on the track girl you are moving backward. LOL
I have got a little work that I have to complete and then I have to prepare for the upcoming interview (just pray I don’t make a mess of things). I am trying to act cool but I am dreading it.
Before I take my leave I want to shed some light on what Tami said. I think the main problem with alpha male is that they take the role of a protector and provider very seriously and showing vulnerability and being sensitive is a form of weakness to them. According to them the world out there is filled with sharks who can gobble you up in seconds if you are not careful. Of course that’s not the case always nowadays but that’s how they look at it. So in their mind they try to toughen them up to protect them from potential threats. Most of the time I have seen boys having close relationship with mothers than fathers because a mother is always willing to understand, listen and accept them as they are whereas a father( with that tough guy mentality) would always try to mold him in the mini version of himself.
Esra good luck for the assessment. You are gonna ace it dw.
I know!! but what I do with me and my stupid mind!!!
Just relax you can do it.
After spending days and hours asking so many people and ranting here incessantly, digging deeper into the minds of men if I still don’t ace in that report I am going to open the ice cream tub and eat it all alone watching all seasons of Mad men. (just kidding) I m pretty confident about it.
One thing I forgot to mention here she told me that’s why I am always telling the girls all the time to form a connection with a boy before jumping into bed him with otherwise it won’t mean anything. You know what I mean.
You Esra !!!! Seriously you are really going to make Laura kick me out of here.
I personally think d**** style for two reasons It’s allows men to focus on their own pleasure more and secondly because Laura said he did not look into her eyes so there you have it.
I specifically asked this from guys( in my friend list) who have a long history of ONS. They said it’s a win win situation for both participants without getting any emotions involved.
Hope that was enough for your curiosity.
Now stop it you nosy little girl!!!
Yeah! Really maybe I should remind you it’s you who are meeting psychologist and sex therapist not me.
I have a hot date with Mr. Commercial and Residential Leases and Mr.Title dispute and litigation from that thick Law book.
Both wants my undivided attention. Let me focus on them first. 😉😉😂😂😂 Before they get jealous and decide to walk out of my brain. 😜😜
You girls are so cuttttteee! Laura and I both commenting under Tami’s comment.
Wondering what you two will think!
Girls here some things to think about in regards to Logan’s book!
I always wonder would a teenage Liam have a small bit of jealousy toward Logan for being Phil and Lina’s legitimate son. I just don’t see how Liam could go through his school years without hearing petty rumors of his birth. Phil even acknowledged that in SN by saying his life wouldn’t be as easy as Logan’s.
I think Logan will be a big influence in teenage Liam’s life because of Phil being older. I read a book once where the H said my dad was 43 when I was born and he was tired when I graduated HS and exhausted when I graduated college.
Would Liam feel segregated from his older siblings since he wasn’t raised with them and didn’t have the bond with them that the older ones had with each other. Meghan even pointed that out in SN, when she said it’s not like he’s our real brother. Meghan cracked me up!
Will Logan have relationship commitment issues, because of what the family went through. Remember when he told Phil I would never do what you did. Phil said I would hope not.
Laura once told us she has an idea of what she’s going to write, but the characters could change that direction once she’s into a scene. I think that’s amazing. I’m just so excited….I know it will be awhile because of her job, but when she takes the writing of pause prepare to be amazed.
I think it is natural given his circumstances around his birth because kids can be very vindictive sometimes. Although I am not so sure about Meghan I think Logan and Katie are always going to be there for him as well as Lina and Phil to make him feel secure and protected. Lina is already fiercely protective of him.
I can’t say same about Kim though I think most of his resentment would be direct towards her once he became older enough to understand what really went down because she tried to use him as a pawn to bring Phil back to her. She can’t hide who she is and since I don’t see her changing her attitude towards Lina I don’t think that Liam would accept it without giving her a piece of his mind.
Now him feeling a bit jealous of Logan seems natural but I think for the most part he would look up to him as an older brother. Remember how he followed Logan around the house when he was just a baby.
I think the same way because part of why Phil had that special connection with Liam because Liam didn’t had the security of a loving mother as Logan. Phil takes the role of the father very seriously.
He knew the type of mother Kim was leaving Liam with nannies to go enjoy her life and since he didn’t knew if Lina would ever accept him I think that was part of the reason why he felt that connection with Liam. I see him feeling the same way if Logan was ever distressed or in danger because he loves all of his children equally.
I know I am going off the topic here but about that break up scene. Did anybody noticed Kim matter of fact tone when she offered him that blow job? That one made me laugh! LOL.
I forgot to add here that I think he would look up to Logan more like a father figure sometimes more than Phil maybe. I have a friend she was born at a time when all of her sisters and brothers were very old than her. What really surprises me that she has more of a motherly relationship with her eldest sister than her actual mother. Phil would definitely be there but I see him turning to Logan whenever he wants an advice or something.
What great news. During the last months I thought that in the whole aftermath of the affair, the one that was most affected was Logan.
First, for me also, the Hunters hunt me on a daily basis, mostly in a good way.
I love Phil! But, he definitely has his issues. Very narrow minded at times, his views regarding child raising- infuriating. But, as I say, I love him because of the things that he is. Loves his family, so smart and articulate, sexy (well, sure).
The way he treats Lina is wonderful- loves her so much.
BUT, I HATE how he treats Logan. As if he needs to show his dominance in every aspect, continuously. And Laura did here, as throughout the book, an amazing work. Because this is so characteristics to this type of men. I know, because this is how my husband treats my son, who is less assertive and sure of himself than my other sons. It infuriates me to no end. This is our major topic of arguments. I believe that Logan suffers and will suffer in the future from this attitude. This is not to say that my husband, as Phil, will not be willing to die for our son. But, he also thinks that this is a way to toughen him up (strong eye roll).
In this respect, I predict some problems in Logan’s relationship with Liam. I am sure that sweet Logan, that smiled constantly as Lina and Nick mentioned, came out of Phil’s affair and Liam’s arrival as a completely differrnt person. Keep in mind that Phil despises the less manly characteristics of Logan and wants him to change into a more aggressive, one that is not “shying from the ball” in the game. Liam on the other hand has all of Phil’s charm, and is built more as Phil physically. In addition, Phil feels the urge to protect him, because of his rough start and that Kim and not Lina is his mother. This is a very fertile ground for strong jealosy from Logan. Which may, at times, affect the father -son relationship.
Can’t wait to read the book and I am so happy and thankful to Esra, Zaincruise and Tracie from keeping the discussions on this family alive.
Yes (sorry Tracie). All the drama occurred at the worse time for Logan – he was old enough to feel the full brunt of the betrayal, but not mature enough to process it all. He will make an interesting character…
Okay I’m feeling all sorts of thing right now. I’m flipping through my thoughts like a whirlwind through a Rolodex. Laura you know I always struggled with Phil and Logan’s relationship. I always thought when he got older and when he matured how he would react to watching Phil with Liam at the same age as he was when his world tumbled. I think about all the times Phil told Logan he couldn’t judge him. I don’t think Logan wanted to judge him, but he wasn’t old enough to hold him accountable either. I wonder what young Logan was thinking when he tried to slide into Phil’s role as the man of the house at such a young age. I remember in WPF when Logan told Katie how all the man speeches were a lie. Phil was Logan’s example and when he realized his dad went against everything he had been taught to this point in his life, now what? Phil loved Logan with the same passion as all his other children, but I don’t think he realized the full ramifications of what went on with Logan after the separation. Phil raised Logan to protect, but I don’t think Logan could process how to protect Lina from Phil’s betrayal. We saw that in SN when he blocked Phil’s access to Lina at the top of the stairs. Oh my this will be an interesting and enlightening read.
Wow… That’s so deep and intense. Laura has her work cut out for this one Tracie.
Personally Kim never let Hunters breath for Phil to understand what trouble his first born might be going through. At that time his main priority was Lina.
She literally made their life a living hell in these two books. And on top of that since she couldn’t be a mother she forced her kid on Hunter’s so soon. Everything happened so fast.
But I want Phil to be extremely proud of Logan I want a special connection and bond between him and Logan. Although parents love all their children equally but I want that specific special connection only between him and Logan.( this is purely based on what I want) I know the road to this outcome won’t be easy but I still want it.
I think Liam is going to be a troubled teenager kind of like a rebel without a cause. I know he is very good at sport but I want him to struggle in his studies(secretly I just want Phil to have a taste of his own medicine) I mean he can’t be good at everything.
Wow!!! Tracie you have made some really good points I wondered about it too. Logan is was and will always be my favorite out of all Phil kids.
I know he would only open up to Laura about the pain he went through but I hated that Phil was too much focused on Liam( I know he was a baby) but when thought about how people will treat Liam differently
I wanted to yell at him then What about Logan? what he must be going through at school all those whispers gossip. How did he coup with all that. Although I was happy at the end of the SN I was secretly hopping for a scene between Phil and Logan where he hug him tightly and listen to him only.
Laura Logan is already hurt enough please make it all go away in his book. Out of all the Phil kids he deserves it more. And make him a hot sexy billionaire. I want him to have the midas touch.
I am sending my list to Santa Claus. I promise I won’t be naughty this year if he grant me this wish. 🤗😊
I think Logan will be a remarkable man. Liam will love him and Phil will be proud of Logan. Laura will evolve Logan, his love interest and the rest of the Hunters in a way we won’t see coming. I love the anticipation of it all. We said once that Phil is Phil. Liam will be raised the same as all his children…I’m hoping Logan helps Liam navigate his teen years. We’ll see!!!!
I also think a lot of Phil’s protective obsession to Liam was his guilt and that Liam was outside of his control when he was with Kim and not knowing if he was being mistreated or left somewhere. Lina was the epitome of what a mother should be and Kim was just the opposite so I feel Phil was just trying to even the odds for Liam when he had him.
So true about Liam part Tracie! After reading your insight I simply just can’t wait to read it. All those emotions, feelings and angst. This gonna be amazing.
Buckle up your seat Ladies Laura soon will take us on a ride we will never forget.
Liam will look up to Logan I have no doubt about that because Logan will help Liam to chart his own course in life and make it easier for him to navigate treacherous roads ahead. I love their bonding in the last chapter of SN.
Rereading the books and the comments, what strikes me most is the artful way these books are written. We can discuss in length Lina’s thought and reactions, her interaction with Nick, the complexity of Nick (an excellent doctor, that jeopardizes his professional career), Magen, Katie, Lina’s and Phil’s parents and so on. Each is described so precisely, that we can read it over and over and according to our age, stage in our life, personality, we discover different facets of the story.
I don’t know anything about literature, other than that I love it (when done like this). But, I think that these books draws us in so much is because of the accuracy and depth Laura captured the characters. These are not one or two dimensional characters, but multi-dimentional. That is also why their future is so interesting for us. These are live people, that we like, love or have seriously mixed feelings for them, but they are important to us, like a close friend of family.
Sorry for going on and on, but really, the fact that we just can’t stop thinking about them is amazing. Very few books did this for me.
THANK YOU LAURA, and I am not going to urge you to write (now) another book because I understand that this process of writing requires all your devotion, so I’ll be patient 😉
Hi Girls, first let me say how proud I am of both of of you for what you’re accomplishing in your respective fields of study. You both are amazing and I expect you girls to accomplish great things.
Now down to our Phil. I like the word “escapism” for his actions because that it’s exactly what Kim was to him. I always said the text messages from his perspective were clinical not emotional in anyway shape or form. I’ll be there in this amount of time.. be naked…do the deed, get dressed… give me the info I needed on that case file, etc you get the picture. Now first Chapter of WPF, like I said Laura and Janet made it clear to me that when Phil came to bed he wanted Lina asleep because he was tired of fighting. I thought to myself why was he tired of fighting??? Was he tired of seeing himself drift further from Lina? Was he tired of looking at his life from the outside in? Was he tired of the extramarital affair? But when Lina said she missed him when he came to bed and he ask her if she really did and she touched his cheek and said yes I love you. I think for me that was the first time Phil let himself be vulnerable. He really needed her to get that question right! Then when that connection was re-established Kim was no different than a fixture on the wall. The breakup scene was confirmation of just that…her dress hugging her hips, etc he had no physical reaction just regret. Wooohoooo. I love my Phil.
The baseball scene was pivotal for me as well. I asked Laura to please expand that scene. I could feel Phil’s panic at the baseball game, but I needed Laura to live and write that panic for me so I could read it. I can only imagine the conversation in his mind as he drove home to Lina. Another sign of integrity on his part, he bit the bullet and laid it all out there for Lina knowing he was going to hurt her more than anyone ever could by telling her about his betrayal. But as her protector, he immediately went proactive trying to right his wrong. Which in my book is awesome!
OMG! That’s so wonderful and awesome assessment Tracie…. You have this beautiful gift to see what a lot of people would might miss due to their inability to forgive and understanding.(although they are entitled to their own opinion nothing wrong with that)
You are absolutely awesome. As Laura has always said you understand the real Phil as well as she does. Thank you for your beautiful words. They means a lot. Big hug to you. 🤗
That makes me think that he must have visited you from time to time as he did Laura for you to understand him this well.🤔 😉
I do the same thing…the main reason that I can’t get invested in a story most of the time nowadays is because I am always like why can’t you be like him why are you so ‘meh’. Phil has ruined me for life I think, where do I find anyone like him. Hope we will meet soon in Logan’s book.
That is 100% correct and a great analysis Tracie! I love it. Word to word it so true!!!!!!
You see the words ‘escapism’ is a very crucial word in psychological world. When I first became acquainted with the it and its different connotation in the psychology I had to raked up my brain a little bit like where I had hear that word from? Then I remember that I had learn about it from Laura first. So it gave me an idea to study Phil as a character keeping that word in my mind to get a different perspective (from a male Doctor and a Female Doctor ) to understand if they both would give me the different opinion or not. I was shocked when they both used the same word in analyzing Phil actions the infamous word ‘escapism’ without any help from my side based purely on their experience and knowledge.
Laura books are so well researched and so well articulated it just grips your heart in your palm and never let you go.
And thank you so much for the kind words Tracie. What really struck me here is the fact that Zaincruise and I go back and forth writing these long ass paragraphs bringing in all the information we have gathered, yet here comes the Queen drop few simple paragraphs and Bingo! everything falls in to place.
Amazing ability Tracie.
Esra this is what I found while I was googling. Since we’re always rambling on about Phil we overlook Lina’s part.
There are two types of cheating – physical and emotional. While the former is self-explanatory, involving an attraction that leads to some kind of physical contact; the latter, has more to do with finding a connection with someone on a psychological level. While both are obviously deemed immoral, common opinion recognises emotional cheating as being more devastating.
Considering that emotional attachment is what keeps a couple connected to each other in a long-term commitment, finding out that your partner shares that kind of bond with someone else, will obviously be more devastating. Also, emotional cheating deprives the existing partner of emotional connect, promoting irreparable damage in trust and intimacy, causing a lack of communication, and plenty of insecurities.
Usually men takes this very seriously because I remember one of my male friend saying that a woman pulling away from a man on either level is like a big blow to their ego much worse than a kick to the balls. LOL.
So Yeah I 100% agree with Tracie on that one. They both messed up
Wow that’s heavy… I don’t know how I will treat my patients if I am crying half of the time with them.
Emotional Cheating Examples
1. You talk about things you wouldn’t talk to your spouse about.
2. You hide the connection in an emotional affair.
3. You change your schedule to see this person
4. You tell yourself that you’re “just friends.”
6. You think about the other person a lot.
7. You eagerly look forward to seeing them.
8 You feel he or she understands you better than your partner does.
9. The intimacy you once had with your spouse is decreasing.
So I also agree with Tracie they both messed up big time. But I am glad they are were able to come together as a couple stronger than ever. Personally to me both are worse and damaging even if the statistics says otherwise.
Simone said something to me that really resonated with me she said ‘ Sometimes you run too fast that everything around you becomes a blur sometimes it’s okay to stumble so when you get back up you are more cautious and more appreciative of your surroundings.’
I will tell her!
I am really mad at the audacity of some people calling Laura’s heroine weak. I mean seriously, cheating was a fad topic for 2022 and they way some authors have butchered it I am not being biased just stating the facts. No one has ever written it the way you did Laura. Love you for that.
Zaincruise – thank you for loving my characters so much that you want them on the big screen! I’m honored.
I miss you girls and it was fun to read the new comments. I have said this before, but I will say it again. As a female, I have never felt comfortable writing the thoughts of a male character. I just don’t know how realistic it is to believe a woman knows how a man thinks. What I do know is how people act. I love to watch people and Phil is based on real men.
I get criticized for setting a bad example for women because my female characters aren’t strong enough. I don’t agree. Their strength is subtle. And I write what I see, not how I think women should act.
I am working again and my position is more than full time so writing is currently on hold. Having said that, working is how I get more ideas for my characters. The next main character will be Logan. He will be about 30 so Liam will be a teenager and Phil and Lina will be in their 50s! That will be fun
Is it what it is or am I dreaming (someone please pinch me) Logan’s book from hunter!!!!! I Can’t wait to read that. You are a Queen Laura.
Due to the uniqueness nature of the circumstances (Like his Love for his wife which won’t let him cross some boundaries even when he felt rejected by her) in which Phil affair happened it presented me with the perfect case study. I wanted to treat him like a psychiatrist would treat a patient. ( I know he is gonna give me the coldest glare if he heard me say that) so upon my rereading I realized that I had to broaden my horizon more then a reader to get to the crux of the matters.
OMG! That’s insane and awesome Laura I can’t imagine what will happen after we get Logan’s story because that would epic! It would be like a best gift ever because that’s what your writing is. It is a gift just remember that. All these years and we aren’t still can’ t get enough of them.
Since Esra and I are the part of academic environment which makes it easier for us to talk to a lots of people, expert, teachers and our mates we have always had this tendency to look at a situation from every different angles and every different perspective, since we are obsessed with Hunter’s we have talked to a lot of people about them. Below is the thought process of man at his lowest point in life which was shared to us by an expert.
The following days and months were considerably colder and more frigid than the Sierra air on the day I did something I never thought I would ever do. My world continued to spin out of control as I tried to hold on to regular daily activities, work, and simply survive each day. I had to work through and get past the self-pity, loathing, anger, sadness, and pangs of thoughts that I was a failure. I was living on autopilot.
The woman I love was there physically but emotionally she was lost to me I could see that in her eyes.
I think Esra added it in her final report
I know Laura you said your main focus was on the aftermath not the affair but I always wanted to dig a little deeper in his character and make people see where he was coming from. He didn’t do those things feeling like a man on top of the world he did them with that mindset.
I think one of the biggest problems I have seen nowadays in people is that they are sold on to this idea of perfectionism which does not exist. We humans are not wired like that. We make mistakes we learn from them and move on. they synonym the ability of forgiveness with weakness. It takes courage to believe in yourself and believe in the goodness of other person. If wanting to believe and accept your own shortcomings is the definition of weak than I will gladly be that.
Hi Laura, I am a fan of your books, especially White Picket Fence books. I love how realistic the characters are, they are like people that I know in real life.
I am happy to read here that you are planning on writing a book for Logan as I have always been curioud to know what happened to the Hunter family after their happy ever after in Swimming Naked. 🥰
Looking forward to many more stories from you, and I’ll always cheer you on!
He was fucking her not making love Zaincruise! an hour or couple of hours was all he needed.
God I made such a fuss about that bar pic and had this long discussion with Berenice saying that she must have staged it somehow. But now upon rereading it makes sense, previously since I was so mad I had forgotten that she was sitting on the barstool and he was standing while he chatted with someone she knew. I had read too much into something that was only natural nothing to fuss over. LOL
Esra from now on we will keep our comments succinct and brief I just realize we are taking up so much of Laura ‘s blog space and our comments are literally the longest ones.
There is difference between ‘couldn’t get enough of something’ and ‘feeling unsatisfied’ If I am thirsty and someone hands me a can of coke instead, I would feel ok for a while then I would want the water again and if the water is not available then I would drink the coke again to make my thirst go away until this method will no longer work. That’s not me having ‘couldn’t get enough of coke’ that’s me using coke as a substitute of water until I will start feeling unsatisfied again because my thirst has never gone away. (God! what a horrible exemplar I am but I know you will understand) so when Phil took Lina three times after his confrontation with Nick it was him having his couldn’t get enough of Lina moment whereas when he texted Kim as two times in a day it was him feeling unsatisfied.
100% agree and I love that example. I am going to a party to tonight I won’t be able to comment today let me get back from it then we will talk about it some more. LOVE YOU UMMMMAHHHH
Enjoy your party and wear that red dress I know you gonna rock it. I I’m putting my reply to your text here.
I have meeting with my friend let’s see what see thinks.
Yeah! I find it odd like you she texted him that Friday knowing that they could have gotten together on Saturday means she must have sense something off about him. Phil may have thought about meeting her but he sure was not that keen he could have texted her when he had gone out of the room but he didn’t. Their connection had not been rekindled till then so I don’t know what was stopping him. Lina plan with Wayne’s and Logan game didn’t overlap with his running group time he could have met her and reply to her text yet he still didn’t. Remember he came home early she must be like why would he choose to go home when he could spend it with her.
I think while her main purpose was to trap Phil as the pursuer if Phil had ever replied to any of her text with some sexual remarks she would have sent it to Lina without any qualms because she wanted to hurt Lina enough to make her divorce him.
If Laura had made Phil think things like a woman like we have seen so many authors do, it would not have made much justice to his character. I like him as he is. While he is Laura’s mind creation he is also an individual on his own and open for anybody to interpret him in her own way. I hope I making sense. I mean he only shares his feelings and thoughts with Laura as she is his creator but based on his actions we can also make our own judgements to understand him. Like a psychiatrist doesn’t live with you to understand you but he only listen and analyze your personality to pass his judgement on you.
OK we talk later get back soon. I am probably going to work a mock case I have been given till then Bye. Until we meet again.
Tracie I love you if you are reading this just know two girls in a land far away are missing you like crazy❤️❤️❤️❤️
I get it sex with Kim never fulfilled him on that level. it must have been a downgrade for him because if it was that epic Lina reconnect wouldn’t have mattered that much. I mean I have read the starting scene it wasn’t like she had to work really hard to get his attention she only touched his cheek and said I LOVE YOU and the affair was a history.
While my others friends struggled with ideas and questions, I had already in my mind what I was going to say when I would meet her so I presented her with the case of Phil and Lina. She patiently listened to me and then asked me to show the texts between Kim and Phil since she is an expert in psychosexual field what she told me was an eye opener of a sort.
People who use sex as coping mechanism their behaviors aren’t actually about the act of sex itself. The reason they act out is to escape pain, reduce anxiety or mask unpleasant feelings. It can give you temporary fix but not the kind of fulfilment you want that’s why when you feel that real connection with someone where sex is about passion and desires the coping sexual feeling easily fizzle out.
She said in her line of work when she asks most of her patients who later were in long-term passionate relationships what it exactly was like when they were using sex for escapism or rate it out of ten they sort of black out because they don’t remember what it was actually like.
The next interesting thing she said that from a simple minded people perspective things are always one way or the other way but we human are a complex creatures we can never predict what mood we are going to be in few hours from now on.
In the story of Lina and Phil they both are perfectly imperfect characters they both made mistakes. While Phil is done with Kim since his affair was all based on using sex as an escapism a part of Lina’s emotional connection with Nick will always remain.
Not in a capacity where she will have feelings for him but more in a subtle way like a good friend.
Then she told me something interesting about Kim too when I showed her the bonus scene( since we couldn’t go through all the books unfortunately) she said it’s not that difficult to see her insecurity in behaviour that when ever she comes close to Phil she tries to touch him or get close to him because that’s all she ever knew. A person who you have emotional ties with would look you in the eyes baring her pain and soul playing up with your emotions but Kim never had that with Phil. She had no control over his emotions so she did what she thought best. She said look at those text and you will know that she seems more in lust than him. His words choice of is meet, spent the night at your place, lunch, come by your place (indication of escapism) while she is more descriptive in her part.
She said most of the time human problem is that they never questioned themselves. People with Kim mentality never thinks about what they are doing is wrong because in her narcissistic mind Lina was the other woman who had between her and her dream man.
She also told me that I was wrong when I told her that that Kim and Phil were too much alike she said if you look closely you would be able to see that may not be the case while they may have same career driven mind the real Phil was too much like Lina then Kim. He is a great father, provider fiercely protective of his family can you say the same thing about Kim. If Kim was the victim of circumstances where Phil mislead her promising more than I could understand why she behave they we she did but she knew what she was setting up herself for so she only has her self to blame.
So true remember when he is thinking in the swimming naked:
He had a vague memory of one from Kim’s bedroom, taken while he was sleeping. The others, like the one Lina was now talking about, he couldn’t recall.
Expert are experts for a reason they have different perspectives on so many things…. Loved it!
What really stands out to me in those text is the time he offers her. Couple of hours, and an hour…. He says 7:30 but the meeting is at 10:00 see keeping that in mind they also need time to get dressed, commute to reach the office before meeting I think it will leave them with only an hour. That’s why I called them quicky shags.
And to echo back what Simone said about texts when he said lunch she eagerly replies, When, where? And when he tells her at apt noon she didn’t answered him back. I think she was upset that he wouldn’t take her out to for dinner and lunch although she wanted him to have her lunch next day. I hop she farted then…. Kidding 😂
Every text was sent with a clear time frame by Phil side it shows his emotional detachment as Tracie said he never cared whether she was tired or hungry.
I have read that book and I had thought that same thing but you see that book was a miss for since I didn’t enjoy it that much.
We will talk about that later now I just want to focus my all attention on the hunters. After reading the WPF very slowly and reading the bonus scene on this website to compliment them I see now things that I was unable to see upon my first reading.
I have always this problem that when I read a book that touches my heart strings I always love to get everyone perspective on it so I can see if I think the same thing or there is something unique that I didn’t notice but the others did. Being a student at the university has given me kind of distinct advantage where I don’t have to rely upon on my friends only (people of my age) but the certain faculty experts whom I can talk to to get their opinion.
The reason I started rereading these books because recently a very famous relationship advisor and therapist came to our psychology class
Her name is Simone bienne you can google her. The purpose of her class was for us to ask her questions about certain relationships. During her session I requested an extra one on one session with her which she was kind enough to grant me. (God! I want to be like her once I major in psychology)
I recently came across this book called yesterday fingerprints which is about a cheating husband (he cheats because he was sexually abused in childhood and wants to humiliate Ow which he can not do with the h) what really stands out me while the story was very different from WPF since there had been no tension at home or no emotional distance between hubby and wife there things that were kind of similar. Let me put some here to show then we can analyze it.
“we.” “We made love.”
I take a threatening step towards her and despite her chin trembling she holds her ground. “Firstly, there is no ‘we,’” I mock. “Secondly, don’t ever call what we do ‘making love.’ What we do is fuck, nothing more, nothing less.”
“You saw me at the party saw something you wanted. You saw money and prestige, and despite that I wasn’t yours for the taking, despite not even knowing me, you decided to try and take me anyway. When I look at you, I see absolutely nothing I want.”
Unknown number: Luc please talk to me. I know you’re angry that I called last night but please baby, I just need to see you again
“This was taken on Friday night. He spent the night at my house.”
Friday. The night he didn’t come home. There is no mistaking that it is Lucas, intertwined with her while he’s fast asleep on a couch that’s not ours, in a house that’s not ours. He’s dressed, but she’s fully naked.
It’s his number and what I’m reading has nausea clawing at my insides. I swallow, trying to hold it down.
Boo: I’ll be there at seven-thirty
Monica: Hurry, I miss you. I cooked dinner and got your favorite whiskey
Monica: Oh baby you’re in for such a treat when you see what I’m wearing. I hope we at least make it to my room this time before you fuck me. I still get so wet when I think of the last time
Boo: Good.
Good? Good because she gets wet, or good because of what she’s wearing?
On top of that she also has sister who is kind of witty and a mother whose husband cheated on her alot after dying and there is this business partner Eric and when the have dinner he sense some tension between them.
On top of that he still do anal with her after the pregnancy scare and she visits his wife at his own home but won’t kiss her because his lips are only for his wife.
While the plot is different I see so many similarities where do you think she got her inspiration from?
Esra! Let’s explore Lina’s connection with Dr. Nick what about her infidelity on a emotional level with Nick?
Finish the last chapter of WPF then we will talk about it.
You share things with the other person that you haven’t shared with your partner. You confide in the other person about the intimate details of your relationship troubles. You’ve become more detached and emotionally disconnected from your partner. You think about the other person all the time.
I just found this definition from Google and Lina ticks all the boxes. Now I am like Laura what are you? I really want to know her IQ level now, no matter how sensitive and complicated the topic is she is always spot on. Her thoughts process matches to every expert or search we have conducted online. I am in awe of that woman.
Just let me finish then I will explore it more with you.
Esra just a quick reminder Laura said Lina is bridget moynahan look alike. Can you imagine! Now I know why men were obsessed with her. Kim could be Miss universe or whatever but can imagine anyone coming close to that. No!!!
No matter how much beautiful Kim was but she still won’t be able to come close to Lina’s charm and beauty.
OMG!!!!! That’s crazy Zaincruise!!!! Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉💐💐💐💐I believe you I think as long as you have enough dedication you can do anything you want to do. Go ahead achieve your dreams. Be the master of your own life.
But please bully Laura into make it a trilogy but shhhhh don’t tell her that I gave you that idea.
Girls it’s my last year of ACCA. After that I have an offer from a prestigious company…. (3 years have already gone by I can’t believe) I didn’t know that some companies were keeping track of students progression so they could dive in and snatched the brilliant ones. I don’t want to sound too cocky but I have always been very good with numbers more than with words they come effortlessly to me than anything else but stubbornly I never gave it much thought until I read those books.
I know it’s going to sound far fetch and unbelievable but I am going to join that company complete my internship at that prestigious law firm work my ass off earn enough money and turn these gem of books into a movie. Hunters are not going to leave my mind its been three years and still they are as fresh as ever I have read plenty of books I don’t know what is it about them that just keep bringing me back to them.
My life mission from now is to bring Phil live on the screen!!!! It has always been a dream of mine to make a movie because I still have my BA(Hons)film & screen art degree I was perfectly content with and working at my father’s company until I read those books then I wanted to do ACCA so I could complete my corporate law degree.
Just pray for me girls that I achieve what I am set out to do I know it’s not gonna be easy but I will never give up!…. 💪💪
Let me guess….It takes about 2-3 days domestically and 4-5 days if your flying out of country. Since that never happened in Phil case so I would say 5 times maybe. First time when he had that fight with Lina and had thrown the phone against the wall.
When he told Lina he had spent nights at her home 2-3 times I think he was referring to all the time when he had to fly early the next day. Last trip was when he had come home early on Friday when he and Lina had reconnect. I think he did slept with Kim after SB two three time but since his interest in her sexually was waning I don’t think he would have spent that night at her house. Remember he was still working on that case important case when they decided to spent the night at SB and after two weeks of that incident the affair ended. That pic where Lina thought he had danced with Kim and he told Lina he didn’t but he felt happy because he had won the biggest case of his life so I think that pic was taken on the last business trip if I am not wrong. so all in all 4 times if the nights he spent at her house were two times or otherwise 5 times.
I think taking his pic while he was sleeping was a hobby of hers. she did it at her home, at the SB and she must have taken some when he was asleep in the Hotel room but she only sent Lina the pics she thought were most significant and would caused most damage.
You know down below Laura said that Lina decided in the first draft that he had sex with Kim 80 time and I was like what! 😳that can’t be true but then she clarified that it was what Lina thought not what actually was true. I think Lina was in a very vulnerable position so she definitely gonna think worst and she may have derived that number from the duration of the affair. What I personally think is that since most of the the affair happened at the office and some of it on the trips to NY I think the days he slept with Lina would have to be after the days he fucked Kim. Like if he did it with Kim on the Monday he did it with Lina on Tuesday. Doing it with both of them in the same day does not seem plausible to me.
Because they waited after everyone had gone to do their quicky sex at the office apartment then he also had to go home I know it will be late but still he was going back home to Lina not making excuses like he would spend the night at the office because of work.
On my reread again I find it quite Awsome ( and I love he never spend any money on her) that Lina never accuses Phil of the same exact things we have seen in many cheating books. Like waking up in the middle of the night, secretly talking, smelling like other woman, lipsticks stain, scratches, losing interest in the wife, finding the problem with the way she dresses nope Nada. The only thing she found off was changing the password, business trips(even they were not planned) and she never suspected anything about his running group until that nick friend told her means he wouldn’t have spent that much time with Kim after running just a quick blow job or shag and he was back to his home.
I know Laura is going to probably eye roll when reading my comments because we are always going forth and back looking for all the loopholes but is my favorite hobby and no matter how hard I try I can’t stop. 😂
Hey Esra to be more precise I don’t think that men have this capacity to compare when getting physical release is the end goal in their mind. She just have to be attractive enough to get the job done and they are good to go. I have read those books a lot of times before applying for the corporate law studies ( thanks to Phil) and if you dig deep enough and relax you will be able to see what you might have overlook in your anger on your first read. Remember when he is telling Kim that even if Lina decides to leave him he still won’t choose her because he was never interested in her in that way, even if she was pregnant. He may have been attracted to her on physical level but he was never attracted to her personality that’s why I called sex between them emotionless shags LOL. And even then the physical part only came when he felt rejected by Lina the only woman he truly ever wanted. She has been trying to get his attention for months and he didn’t even knew she existed until he did and even then he still wasn’t that interested to her on personal level. Those business trips were never planned but were a necessity he just chose her as an assistance during them but he never planned them himself thinking he could spend time with her in another city. No that was never the case.
To answer your second question I think Laura wrote these book using a technique which is called third person limited omniscient if I remember correctly from my Eng lit class at school. Where the books are told in third person limited mostly but the the writer keep the authorial persona to give you the little extra information without character addressing it directly. Our teacher had given us a passage from the crime fiction based on true events where a good looking man used to lure girl with his charming personality to rape them. It read like this; “When he came towards Ellison his beautiful lips stretched into a charming smile that could make any young girl heart flutter in her chest but all she could see was the demon who was going to rape her and then kill her” I am a little off the mark here but you get the gist so when Phil thought that all he saw was the woman…..” it was not he who thought she looked more like a model than an attorney it was Laura giving us extra information about her appearance before getting into Phil head and what he thought of her. Now the scent part was his thinking because again as I said he needed to have a certain level of superficial attraction to continue the affair otherwise it wouldn’t have worked but now it repulse him. kim is the epitome of his failure he feels torture just looking at her because she reminds him of that low time in his life. But all in all I was glad that he never blame Kim for the fling because then it would have seem like it was kim fault for being so tempting and he couldn’t just resist.
And for your third question I think she knew he was not all that into her when he only fucked her instead of worshipping her body like her previous lovers(or more like he worshipped Lina) she secretly wanted him to because while Phil wanted physical release she wanted him so it must have alert her in some way even when the affair was new. she wanted to trap Phil and show it was he who pursued her but if you look at the texts I think they started from late march means she must have started from the very first text he sent her. Truthfully I think a bit of push and pull must have happened on Phil side in February until he finally found himself falling down that rabbit hole hitting the rock bottom. I know Laura has been really patient answering all of these question again and again and over again that’s why I won’t bother her with this because she wanted us to focus on the aftermath and a couple surviving infidelity but we love going back and forth like crazy. So to answer your last question sure they sometime did it before a meeting in the morning or lunch(a blow job) and then after everyone was gone but I don’t think he took her three time simultaneously like did with Lina because he was never that desperate for her ever and in NY they were working all the day and when they did it I think he fell asleep after that since he has to be tired and needed his sleep remember the picture at her home. She must have thought that her lips service was the greatest thing since the slice bread because she used that trick two time in desperation when he was asleep at the SB and in the break up scene to lure him back sensing his disinterest and had the audacity to act really surprise when refused her. In her narcissist mind she must have thought that he should be addict to her lips service by now.
I type this response really fast so if you find any spelling error correct on your own. LOL
Thanks hon! Now I see… I mean I already have seen these things but I love getting them in to it from every different angles. I love hunters to death. How many times do you think he had gone on those business trip for it to be a frequent?
Ok girls I have this guy in my class who is really intelligent but at the same time he is also a bit of a manwhore and gentleman . He is also very good looking. Recently we both were assigned for the mock case together and while preparing for it we became fast friends (didn’t see that coming) and have been inseparable ever since. He is a good guy but there is this one problem in him that he sleeps around a lot. 🙄 Since Hunters have always been in the back of my mind and I have this tendency to talk about them sporadically with all my friends, one day while we both were having lunch I blurted out ‘what is the difference between fucking and love making?’ God! I was so mortified when he looked at me with his mouth hanging open(but I still hold my ground because I wanted to get a guy perspective on that one so badly, especially one who was that experienced) but once the initial shock wore off and I explained myself more articulately he told me this.
‘Fucking is all about you but making love is more like about your partner.’ When you are fucking someone your main goal is reaching toward climax but when you are making love you want to prolong and enjoy every part of it.
You do not necessarily bother with foreplay or afterplay when it’s for physical gratification, just contact of genitals matters. Whereas love making is a whole different process and it continues even after you have climax but fucking stop the moment you have found your release.
One interesting thing he told me during our conversation that most of the the time when when you want to fuck your partner you love(to keep up with variety) you end up making love to them because the lines between these two starts to blur sometimes you want to go fast and hard and sometimes you want to take it slow. Making love is like a bit of everything, you can spice it up according to you and your partner desires and needs. Women get confused because men usually don’t use the word fuck when they are are with someone they care about have deep connection with even when they are going hard and fast at it because it cheapen what they have unless you are into dirty talk during sex.
But that’s not the case with fucking someone you are not emotionally connected to then you just wants to orgasm. That’s why it is easy to fuck because you can do it with anybody but you can’t make love to everybody there has to be an emotional connection to do it.
I also remember that I had read this in a survey in cosmopolitan magazine where a large percentage of men had claimed to prefer the missionary position while having sex with someone they love because they want to look at their partner face and make that emotional connection but prefer doggy style when they are fucking someone without any emotion involved because then they aren’t concerned about anything just their climax.
When I had read WPF first time I was really angry at Phil for saying that I only fucked her but I only ever made love to you because then I had this narrow perspective about fuck VS love making.
it only made me think now that how cleverly and beautifully Laura had written these two books. Most of the times I have seen female writers writing about male heroes with females qualities in them to make them more accessible and acceptable to readers but after taking to my male friend it’s like Laura had literally made her self step into a male shoe to write about Phil. Now I get why Phil said what he said. She is amazing!!!!!!
Sorry girls for the rant and frequent usage of F word but I had clear that up. Love you all 😘😘
LOL! I would have love to see the look on his face when you said that and I agree because I did the same thing with my all male friends. Laura did say she talked to a lot of men during the writing and she is amazing like that. I don’t know if we have talked about it previously or not but now reading about a man perspective I understand things more clearly. Since we read a lot of Romance books and most of the time writers makes the male leads to chose the word fuck with the female leads to keep it consistent with their dark broody assholish self when they are having explosive SEX where he can’t get enough of her particularly, so I had presumably assumed that he meant the same thing and I was absolutely gutted but now I know better. As Tracie said she was insignificant and he wasn’t worried about her comforts. Laura also said the same thing about him not looking into her eyes which only reinforces the fact that how thoroughly she researched before writing that book.
Hi Girls…I’m here….So glad you girls still have the Hunters on your mind. I to this day read books and something strikes me on how this or that situation could fit with the Hunters. Laura created an amazing couple that keeps holding on to us and our emotions.
Zaincruise I loved your insight on the dynamics of being involved in a complex legal battle. Knowing Phil and his need for doing his absolute best I can see where he used Kim as a tool to win a case and he wouldn’t have worried about her comforts the way he would of Lina’s. Like has she eaten or is she tired. Kim had to keep pace at work.
Esra so true on Kim being accommodating toward Phil. I noticed that during the break up scene…You want Scotch a Blow Job???? But all her accommodations and hard work could not outshine or override his connection to Lina. She was his world, she tethered him to his life as he knew it and without her he was lost.
GOD! It’s good to have you back Tracie. You are the best of best. I hope everything is alright on your end and you keep stay active on this blog because you have helped us a lot during the time when Laura was busy. I still remember hunting down your comments on this blog when I had first read those books because you always been spot on with your analysis. You are a true gem! I hope you always keep shining like that.
OMG!!!! The life of this blog is back. Was missing you too damn much Tracie. Hope you will keep coming back since I can’t seem to shut up where hunters are concerned and I hope you will be able to persuade Laura to start writing again. Miss her writing so damn much. Four books aren’t enough for me I need tons of them.
You dolls are good for my ego…Lol. I’m glad to see you girls are finally getting a break and can come back and contemplate the Hunters again. They are definitely the best. Esra Laura is so busy right now with a full time job. But I’m sure when we least expect it she will surprise us all with another great book of love and life. I’ll check the blog daily and see what you babes are up too! Keep those comments coming I love reading your thoughts.
Hahahaha we would never stop. I love you because out of all of us you were the only one who was able to see past the hard shell of Phil. You saw his hurt and his pain hidden beneath his anger and make us see the man he truly was and is. Love you for that.
While rereading WPF I just came to this interesting realization about Kim that despite her narcissist behavior was really accommodating toward Phil and wasn’t demanding much in return. In the other cheating books that I have read the OW always expect a certain level of commitment from the other participant. Sure she wanted to monopolize his time may have texted him while he was home or stuff like that but despite being so sure in her abilities she really notch down her narcissist behavior for him. Don’t get me wrong I still hate her but I think the poor woman was trying really hard to not to let herself slip up and make him alert to her true intentions. But what I wonder is what cause this behavior? It could be during the early stages she may have tried to brought Lina up in a conversation very cautiously, sympathizing with him so she can understand his true feelings toward his wife but was badly snubbed by Phil letting her know he would never discuss Lina with her. And I know a lot of people misunderstand me when I say this that Phil was telling the truth when he called her easy to fuck not because he was berating her or calling her a loose woman, she was just that easy without any expectation of any sort she literally made it too easy for him. One more thing I noticed in her behavior during the affair that she was trying really hard to make the affair more than physical subtly hoping he would follow suit. It was she who suggested the bar near the hotel, it was she who wanted him to meet her friends and likewise it was she who had gifted him the pink tie(secretly wishing he bought sexy lingerie for her, remember when she secretly put that receipt in his pockets I saw right through her it must have been one of her fantasy)when Phil texted her about lunch she instantly perked up with ‘where?’. While many of the reader were focused on Phil wearing that pink tie for me it symbolizes the fact how little she knew about the real Phil and personally it really doesn’t bother me now because Phil is a very professional man he HAD TO wear it he couldn’t care less about her choosing the right color because he refused to share himself to her on a personal level and subsequently he wasn’t really interested in her personal life either. While it may have bothered me before but it doesn’t now about Phil attraction/liking kim tbh in order to numb his feeling of his failure the pill has to be affected enough to work and I think he liked her as a Professor would like his brilliant student. She was intelligent so she must have been a great help to him during the case they both were working on. I can see her rewording his compliment in her mind as a declaration of love. One more thing I found very odd was the pictures thing. They were taking during the affair( although I personally think that watching Phil sleep was favorite hobby of her! creepy) I am sure she was dying to show them to Phil to make him see how beautiful they look together but she didn’t because again she knew Phil was not her usual man and her magic wasn’t working on him, if he knew their affair wasn’t as discreet as he believed he might end it.
One more thing I would like to add here sometimes most of the readers wish that Phil should not have cheated on Lina but if that would have been the case do you think we would have the story we love so much and is so dear to our hearts. No! I love that Laura brought him to life. Zaincruise! I know you are on the break and since you are the only person whose number I personally I have come here lets enjoy discussing about our couple. I just hope that Laura doesn’t kick me out. LOL
LOL😂 I hope she doesn’t kick us out of her class. She must be tired of us right now.
Since you are rereading the stories I would also put my two cents here. Putting aside the STD issue here we all know that Phil was also having sex with Lina during the affair and I know all lot of girls here find it repulsive but I have always sense that there was more to it. As according to Lina it had been 3 weeks means he must be also pretty active with Lina during the affair minus the time he was on business trips or those three weeks. He could have gotten plenty of easy sex from Kim then why he was reaching out to Lina? who must have rejected him sometime because she simply wasn’t in the mood after an argument. I know she is his wife and I know he wants her but why if he was getting the easy sex with no strings attached 🤔 during the fog situation?
As far as I am concerned and nobody have to agree with me since it is my personal opinion I believe that he was desperately seeking to reconnect with Lina and wanted her to love him as she did before since he believed that she didn’t anymore and every failed attempts made him lose control which explain why SB was a turning point for him because it reminded him what he had and that was the time when sex with Kim started to lose its appeal he may have thought about meeting her that Saturday but he still came early and he still didn’t text her back when he could of. I am not blaming Lina she is my favorite heroine but the barrier was put up by Lina not Phil since she had emotionally withdrawn herself from him(not on purpose though) and all she had to do was reassure him that she loved him and affair died a sudden death.
Where is Berenice and Tracie? I wish they would get back here I want to enjoy my small break.
I agree! it also explain why he sought Kim because Lina rejection heightened his sense of failure and he needed physical gratification to feel himself in control. Lina emotional withdrawal happened way before the affair even started and at that point in his life he was feeling quite low and he made a very bad choice due to lapse in judgement.
Yeah I know but you see since I am studying the Law the one thing I find most fascinating here realistically speaking, which I also kind of get from the comments down below and lots of reader find problems with is the fact that what he was thinking sleeping with Kim if loved Lina so damn much, the answer is simple he was not thinking of anything because he wouldn’t have the time to think while working on a very important case. In most of the professions you might chuck out your books after you have completed them or you may need them for time to time but not as extensively as you do in Law. whenever a case comes up you have to keep revisiting those book to see acts, the verdicts to see if there was any change in the law in recent years and that is only a part of it so yeah it is a lot of work that can keep you up all night, no matter how good you are you have to prepare and give your best at the court so when the judge or jury ask you something you don’t falter in your speech and show them your weakness(they live for those moments they are sadists like that LOL). I think that’s what happened here he never had the time to question anything which would help him to see the error of his ways. And I think that was why he never question Kim motives and was able to compartmentalize so easily because she was not on his mind like that during that time.
hope you are enjoy your reading I wish I could do it to but I know if I read them again I would become obsessed and since Laura haven’t written in a very long time I would have the massive book hang over and I won’t able to read my course book again.
I know God! The fat books I have seen laying around your apartment makes me wonder how could someone willingly live with them. I miss Berenice and Tracie but I think they haven’t been active here since December. Seem like it’s only you and mean. I just Hope that Laura absences means that she is writing a new novel for us.
Remember it’s always the opinion of the people we love most matters. He was Ace attorney in the courtroom but back at home he just wanted to be Lina’s man. 😉😘
I know! but you know what crazy things is we have it’s been three years approximately since we read those books and the funny thing is that we are still hung up on these two. I have read plenty of books but never ever have been so hung up on any of them.
I will keep pop in time by time to give my insight and update about Hunters! Talking about them is fav hobby of mine. I just simply can’t get enough of them.
Ok guys I know it’s bee a while but I am planning to read AWPF&SN again! you know to kick start class of 2023. I love Laura’s writing so much but I am also a little miffed with her she said she was going to publish her new novel and I like a crazy woman keep refreshing her Goodreads page to see if she has published it but nothing new is happening there, not even a teaser. I even thought that something was wrong with my internet connection and texted zaincrusie 3:00 am, waking her up literally yelling that Laura must have published her new novel only I was the one who couldn’t see it because something was wrong with my connection. I know how busy Laura must be but please Laura have some mercy on us. Until then I will keep reading the books she already has published until I have every single line memorized.
Thought of you guys today because my daughter’s (in college now) new obsession is watching the men’s lacrosse games at her school. I think it’s mainly an east coast sport so she never attended a game before. She asked me the other day where she’s been all these years and if I knew how cute the players are! So I immediately thought of Logan🤣😭. They are playing against Penn this weekend …I trust you are keeping the Hunters well and so is everyone here. Miss you and hope you are still writing. Can you finish the football player one and include an evil ow in it?🤣.
Had some family drama so I haven’t been able to read much at all in months.
Love all your books! Are you planning to publish a new novel anytime soon?
Also, in WPF did you consider adding the topic of how Lina reacts to knowing Phil was having unprotected sex and the health implications for her? I just feel that is a big topic that was not mentioned…
Thank you! Hope we can read more of your books :)!
Hi Melissa — Thank you! The unprotected subject didn’t make the book. I just think it would have been unrealistic for him to use protection the first time considering it wasn’t planned. And as awful as it was, I felt it was more realistic. As far as discussing, the story was more about healing. There was so much negativity, I just left that conversation out.
As far as a new novel, I’m working on it but don’t have a date 🙂
Just one quick question. When Kim filed the paperwork to move back to NY was she making a last ditch effort to get Phil to chose her and Liam or had she finally given up on Phil ever leaving Lina?
Hi Deb, Kim had given up and realized her need to shine couldn’t happen in the burbs. She didn’t want Liam, he was a pawn in the scheme to get Phil. Getting pregnant was the Hail Mary to take Phil from Lina and it didn’t work.
Thanks Tracie I had wondered when Kim realized how much Phil loved Liam that she might have been trying to use him again to see how Phil would react to not being able to see Liam whenever he wanted. Maybe she was hoping Phil would say “you can’t take him away from me “ and she would say “ we’re a package deal” and in her warped mind she envisioned him saying “ anything to keep Liam in Baltimore “. If that was the case she was sorely disappointed.
Deb Kim never knew Phil’s feeling toward Liam. Chapters 35 and 37 prove that when she told him both times he didn’t want Liam full time anymore than she did.
Hi Tracie! I think at this point you know the Hunters better than I do! Miss you — Laura
Never Doll…I was just blessed enough to tag along with you on your journey of literary brilliance we know as the Hunters.
Love and miss you sweet girl!
Zaincruise!!
Likewise! This couple is always at the back of my mind. 😉
I need to get this out of my chest. Remember in the previous post, You, Esra and I were arguing about the nature of Emotional Affair(EA) of Lina?? I recently came across a supporting group on social media!! People who got cheated on formed some platforms to help each other during difficult times (it’s anonymously for obvious reason. I was a lurker for a while, interested in reading people’s blogging on the platform (it’s really more like diary entries for them to record and reflect, to be there for themselves and each other.
I was dumbfounded that my understanding of EA was where the problem at in our argument over Lina and Nick. Obviously due to the lack of experience in committed, long-term relationship, I didn’t realise that if partner/spouse confided to, had a companionship with or seek comfort/solace/console from the OW/OM, these should be counted as EA. It might look beautiful, compassionate and empathetic or even pure, but the core of it was EA, needless to mention that some EA were driven solely by carnal attraction and was EA only because the lack of opportunity to get physical.
Before I read about what all those betrayed people were going thru, I had this narrow-minded definition that only when they were sexting, confessed love/fondness to each other clearly and established a lover relationship behind their spouses’ back without only physical acts, then it’s EA. Obviously, EA’s definition is much broader than I realised, and without realising the various types of them, I was undermining what Phil was going through!! I got this book recommendation: Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It demystified the Emotional Phase of an affair.
All said, I like that Phil didn’t shift blame to Lina as he shouldn’t be (it would compromise his redeem-ability). Tons of cheating spouses shifted blames to spouses as if “valid” down moments in marriages were some kind hall-pass to their full blown affair. I am appalled how many relationship writers and “specialists” promoted this narrative that the betrayed wife/husband was to blame in that they weren’t perfect “all the time” or weren’t in the spousal mode one hundred percent, so it’s understandable that the cheating spouses cheated and the betrayed should work on themselves to be better spouses for the cheaters, making sure this won’t happen again!! How insane is this!! Thankfully, Phil was nothing like that and Lina was also clear-minded and strong enough to stick to her ground. I am happy that Phil grew enough to know how to handle difficult times (Logan) and his own feelings (still has tough guy mentality but is becoming a better version of himself~😌
I know it’s been a while since I have commented on the blog but I always check it whenever I have free time because I love it so damn much and it also had made such a huge impact on my life somehow. On the other day on Goodreads, a very dear friend of mine had asked me a question about Phil using sex to escape and somehow had also hinted that sex must have turned so boring with Lina that he prefer to have it with Kim. And thinks one of the main reasons for the continuation of the affair was because he had lost his attraction toward lina at that time.
Since I know you also read this blog so I am putting my answer here and I will say that I disagree with your point of view. Lina had rejected Phil many times and as we had discussed that lina would not act like a loving adoring wife after an argument so I think as a result their sex life suffered which is just not only sex between lina and Phil but a part of their deep connection. They both were dealing with some heavy stuff. I think( and you don’t have to agree) the main reason he was having sex with kim because he was escaping his sense of failure not because he was enjoying it so damn much by which I did not mean it was mechanical but there was a reason behind it, although it doesn’t justify his actions.
In my opinion, his sex with Kim was more of a quickie sort of version than the long night-to-day type of sessions. I can vouch for it because now since I am studying law I know how much time you have to spend on every single tiny itsy bitsy detail while preparing for a case.
Lina had spoiled Phil so much that he could only share his Lina’s attention to some extent even with his own kids, he was such a mean child when it came to Lina. So sex with Lina became harder in my opinion because it had heightened his sense of failure since she was not instigating it. Remember that part when Lina told him ‘I love you he was like ‘do you?’ like he couldn’t believe she was still in love with him. Her emotional withdrawal had turned him into a cold bitter man.
Lina is a heroine I have always admired because she was so damn cute and innocent. She didn’t know the power she had over Phil. She always acted so selflessly never manipulated her power. She could have made him choose and could have put him in a difficult situation but she didn’t and I think it takes courage to do that.
And in the end, I would say there is no team Phil and team Lina for me because for me they both are part of the same team. You automatically fall in love with one while choosing the other. For me, there is no Phil without lina and no lina without phil. Love them so damn much. They would invade my brain even when I am working on something important. Lol.
Hope you would have gotten the answer to your questions. And I repeat these are my opinion no one can change it but you don’t have to agree and I won’t force you.
Love you Laura and I am so thankful to you that you have given us this blog and a story that won’t just go away.
Tracie you are a very vital part of the blog love your comments you keep this blog alive girl.
Bernice your comment always surprise me with their depth and deep analysis are you sure you were not a psychologist in your other life? Lol
Until we meet again…. These studies are taking their toll on me.
Hi Zaincruise so happy to hear from you. I personally love you explanations and I’m proud of you for accomplishing so much with your studies. I agree with your opinion. Phil was definitely not bored with Lina, he was more aggravated and couldn’t get a handle on his home life. The only place he had balance and control was at work. Kim was a distraction that gave him physical gratification. She gladly catered to his every work and physical need. However, Phil may have been pleased or even appreciative of Kim’s actions; however, he never had any emotional ties tethering any part of his heart or future to her in anyway. As Phil said Liam was his only duty where Kim was concerned. Lina strikes me as a very loving sexual partner. Phil didn’t get bored with Lina, he felt she didn’t want him not the other way around.
Hi all, I hope everyone is well and hanging tough.
I love this blog and Tracie especially for responding to so many questions, some of them asked and answered previously. Things have been so crazy lately, I can certainly use some escaping 😉. This blog is awesome and I find myself gravitating to it when looking to escape. Zaincruse and Berenice, thanks for getting in here with your thoughts and comment. Some of us, took a bit of a break after being active a couple years ago.
In the infidelity books I have read, the wife gets extremely angry after finding out about the affair and ask the man to leave. Do you think Lina asked Phil to leave immediately after finding out about the affair 🤔.
Also, I have always when does the Steamboat vacation home rears its head again. Is it when Phil decides to sell it or when Logan says something about. He knew Phil took Kim there.
What I would give to read the first book Laura wrote about Phil and Lina. I love the Hunters.
Hi Holley you can get WPF on Amazon. To answer your questions no Lina didn’t ask Phil to leave immediately. It wasn’t until Kim sent her the pictures of them together on her birthday. The pictures had one of Phil at Steamboat and that’s when she knew Kim had been in her vacation home. Phil left the day after Lina’s birthday in October. So they were together from late may to middle of October after Lina found out about the affair.
Holley I don’t think Phil ever realized that Logan knew that he took Kim to Steamboat. That was Adele and Lina discussing the picture in WPF and Logan overheard them. Steamboat reared it’s head again in SN in the picture scene between Phil and Lina.
Hi Tracie,
Thanks again for answering. In my previous post, I meant I want to read “The Affair”, I think that is what WPF was called when Laura first wrote it. Per Laura, she rewrote it as WPF after refusing to have Phil and Lina divorce. I read Swimming Naked first then went back and read WPF. By reading the books in reverse order, I was more in awe of Lina’s ability to forgive Phil.
Hi Holley! No, Lina doesn’t ask Phil to leave — if you remember from WPF, she questions her reaction to the news with Nick, when discussing finding out about the affair.
Hi Laura,
Thank you! I hope you are well. I miss Phil and Lina🙂.
I was told it’s called “hysterical bonding” lol. Laura, seriously, your book is sooo well researched and you delivered them masterfully. every small detail is inferential. It effortlessly checked all the boxes of affair recovery.
thank you, Berenice 😘
You know I agree Tracie! Phil was never bored with Lina
I just discovered that somewhere in SN our dearest Nick dated Kathy Paige and that she was supposed to moved in with him. We are talking about THE Kathy Paige that was Joseph’s fiance in “When I saw you”. That could be absolutely great, because she was really nice in this book. However, in “When I saw you”, when she met Joseph at the museum she anounced that she was engaged to someone (could it have been Nick!?), and sounded bitter, and as if she still considers the breakup with Joseph something she mourns. And I think, whoever wins Nick should know they are won big time. Nick should be no one’s second choice.
Ok, that was my latest revelation. In desperate need for a new book 😃
I think the timeline is after she broke off with Joseph, Nick and Kathy met and clicked!!! The original idea to put Kathy and Nick together, I believe, was from Janet?? As everyone on this blog know, Janet likes them getting together and burning their nights by talking about art, lol. And Laura agreed with the pairing. So it was put in the SN!! I think there’s discussions here and there on the past blog entries. You could check them out~ if there’s a Nick book, Kathy would be the Heroine, and Laura confirmed it the last time I asked her😉
Forgot to say, that guy Kathy mentioned was before Nick, I think. I remembered that Janet thought Kathy is such a good match for Nick and her having Nick to start over is a REAL new chapter for her HEA (Nick’s too).
Seriously, how could anyone still pine for their EX when they have Nick???? Lol. (Well, except Lina)
Berenice, (I hope you see this reply, there was no option to reply directly to your message)
Thank you!!! Am I happy to hear this, I needed a HEA for Nick. Such a charming man when he wants to be. Yes, he definitely crossed ethical lines with Lina, but that’s the beauty of being a human being. And to think that this group was involved in designing the HEA- unbelievable!
Hi Tami!
Yes, you are correct. In When I Saw You — Kathy met with Joseph after she was engaged. In my mind, that marriage never happened. She ended up meeting Nick and having her own HEA 🙂
I know that a lot of cheating spouses actually traded down when conducting their affairs. They weren’t after “quality”. It’s all about “having it”. For there’s something wrong or broken inside of themselves, they had some makeshift events happen to distract them from their life problems. It’s not that Kim’s objectively less beautiful or less sexy. It’s more that [To Phil], Kim was less in all dimensions, comparing with the love of his life, Lina. But no matter how lesser Kim was to him, he was using Kim’s availability anyway? He had to eat, right?😂. The 4 months was more about his own selfishness (flaws): he needed to feel something such as he was still important, he was in control/feeling powerful and his own confidence mattered (masculinity, manhood, his sexuality etc etc). I know it sounds cliche, even lame. But it fits his confession that he was weak, selfish and not thinking. After reading so many people’s stories about betray, somehow Phil’s flaw made him incredibly humane to me. I consider myself grew a bit and I caught a glimpse of what his flaws really reify. I remember one wayward wife (her affair was also four months ish) said that her affair did not stop at ONS because in her affair fog mind, the affair and affair partner (AP) were something she reckoned/imagined completely different to what they actually were (decent, discreet, in her term and made her feel powerful). Because of that, she felt no problem to carry on it “effortlessly” and it was never about her husband and her love to her husband. She never thought about there’s a “competition” between her AP and her husband. I knew that Laura used the phrase “wall of resistance”. I think for Phil, it might also be “boundary”. When a drunken mistake (ONS) broke his boundary, sleeping with Kim became so easy, utterly manageable, and seemingly inconsequential. Like all men with power, he could, so he did (he picked up a new chore, no gain, no loss, no harm. No mental gymnastics needed preparing before acting on. So why not? Until, wham, everything derailed and his fog lifted.
Zaincruise! So great to hear from you. I hope school is going well. I always love your analysis on this family, which is still dear to my heart! And I agree — it is team Hunter, not team Phil or team Lina.
Hi girls!
I have this thought!! I mean, I thought about this at times when I reread WPF! In the chapter that Kimzilla sent Lina those awful screenshots, Lina was lying on the bed, unwilling to talk to Phil when he tried to chat with her. Phil immediately realised that it’s Kim or something Kim did that upset Lina. He went to Lina’s purse and asked frantically about what did Kim do. I found that very [adorable].
We all know Phil does not care about other people or what they think/feel inwardly. I know Laura you said once that Kim warned Phil that she had vivid documentation of them together, and had plans to upset his wife with those “evidence”. Still, he was soooo INTUITIVE to the context Lina was in and to what Lina was feeling!! I don’t think example like this is all about their occult connection. It’s more like Phil put effort to feel, care about and make sense of ONLY Lina. I think that if Lina is in a crowded room and Phil enters the room, he would immediately find her and study her mood, how she looks and how she feels, happy or annoyed or excited etc etc. It’s the same in that deleted scene, when they were attending the wedding, he returned from running and Lina avoided talking to him after shower. He immediately sensed that she was upset, knew something was wrong and insisted Lina to talk to him. I think our Phil graduated with Magna cum laude from University of Lina😂. I may over interpret the situation~but it’s very sweet to think this way😮💨
Laura
I was rereading AWPF and wondered did your original book the Affair have the same ending of Lina and Phil at her mom and dad’s wedding or was it where Lina found the pink tie? Did you ever consider an ending where Lina and Phil did not end up together? I believe I read somewhere in your blog that your editor wanted Lina to go through with the divorce. Just wondering if you ever considered that ending while writing or were you always 100% Team Phil?
Thanks
Hi Deb Happy 4Th….Laura may have to correct me; however, I kind of recall a conversation where Laura’s editor wanted Lina to end up with Nick and Laura said absolutely not. So Laura pretty much rewrote the entire story and it got a new name, but the ending she wanted.
Janet,
Thanks for sharing!
Now I am starting to picture Phil around this age and Logan in his late 20s playing lacrosse with a preteen Liam on the beach during a week-long vacation.
Laura, I finished Whitney, My Love (finally)! I liked it! The writing, the plot, everything is a gem. But I must say that your Phil still topped my list of Heroes (maybe with Vaughn beside him😌). Clayton is a bit less interesting than them and too juvenile. Phil and Vaughn are all-round Heroes!
Hi,
If you are looking for a novel with a jerk H with lots of betrayel, then Jackie and Maria, by Gill Paul, definitely is the one. There is so much angst that I simmered. It is the “love” triangle between Onassis, Jackie Kennedey and Maria Callas. The story is very interesting, it also captures the era and the research behind it is good. If you accept the story as it is told in the book, it is a heart wrenching story with true love. The problem is that it is based on a true story and when you read elsewhere about Onassis’ attitude towards Maria it is horrible, much worse than described in the book. I felt that the author tried to make Onassis less cruel and approachable. Yet, even in the book he is a narcissist jerk. I read it in a few hours, and couldn’t stop discussing it with whoever was willing (opera lovers or older people that heard of those figures in real time like my mom). But I will never read it again, I cannot go through this torture twice.
We are a very unique group of readers. We do want betrayel, but for us the betrayel serves only as a mean for our hero to show his undying love to our heroine. There is this fine balance, that in Bygones, by Lavyrle Spencer, is not balanced enough, but in SN is just right. So again, I am in awe that Laura wrote such wonderful stories, giving us this never ending gift 💜
Hi Tami,
Omg, Maria! that soprano. I am also into RPS(Real person slash😮💨!! Funny that I always regard her as a phase, as many RPS ships I shipped thru the years had soprano as mistress (fall in lust/passionate intelligence of sorts)
Speaking of the Onassis, I was more into his daughter Christina. I am a huge sucker for historical, intense, boundary-pushing father/daughter dynamic (not in a weird way though. Especially, his heir, Christina’s beloved elder brother Alexander died so suddenly and tragically. The dynamic of the three of them…always a fanfic idea of mine. powerful father, Apollo-like older brother and the shadowed daughter. Like I mentioned before on the blog, same goes to Sally Hemings by Barbara Chase-Riboud. Jefferson was such a complex Hero(if you could call him that) in the book, brainy, contradicted, grandeur narcissistic with ultimate elegant masculinity (French dandyism). The only fiction H I could compare with was Avon in The Old Shades by Georgette Heyer. Georgette wove such a fine piece that balanced dandyism, haughtiness and elegant masculinity perfectly.
H Berenice,
Can you remind me- who is Vaughn? I know I read him but I can’t remember which book he’s from? Clayton is from Whitney, right?
J,
Vaughn is the Hero from Sarra Manning’s Unsticky! Laura recommended the book. Vaughn is too unique. I mean, his domineering isn’t paled a bit by his “high maintenance”. That’s very difficult to pull off and Sarra Manning somehow managed to do that. I would say Vaughn in his Hero category is more refined than “Mr Darcy” (I know this assertion is bold, lol).
Yes, Clayton is from Whitney! He is likeable, ticked most boxes but sometimes very predicable and frustratingly juvenile, and I am not even talking about swoonworthy “man-child” behaviours that a lot of alphas have.
I actually wanted to say Gray from Linda Howard’s After The Night as well. But that book is too popular (It’s LH after all!!). Phil and LH’s Heroes sends out similar intensity. I am rooting for our Phil!
Ahh yes. How could I forget Unsticky? We love mean jerks. 😂. I agree with you 💯 re LH heroes and Laura’s- they are similar totally comparable. I think my faves are the heroes from Heartbreaker and Diamond Bay.
Hi Janet and Laura,
If you are talking about media, then I have a request. Please add an audio version for the books. For addicts like me, who read and re-read 100 times just to have another take of a certain situation, it could be great to listen to the favorite stories on the way to work or where ever.
I just reread A sense of belonging (such a wonderful book!) and discovered yet so many hidden jems inside. It could be just wonderful to be imersed in the story during driving. And if it is not relevant to previous novels, then for the new one please 🙏(indeed, when will we read about this doctor???? The waiting is hard).
Can you imagine listening to Phil from your car??! Oh my Lord! And Tony and Casey’s love scenes cannot be on audio. Seriously too hot for me to handle during a run to the grocery store. hahaha
Hi Janet,
Actually, Phill on my way to work might just be the incentive to go out, LOL. And Tony, definitly! Without any interuption from anyone at home.
By the way, in this best hero debate Phill, Clayton or Vaughn, I would like to present another candidate: Tony. Yes, he is not in the category of jerks, as he is the opposite of it. But! he has this internal compass, yet, such a superb alpha. The way he succumbs to Casey, just great. Absolutely against his will.
Just to say that until last week Phill was my favorite hero, in any category. But, after re-reading “a sense of belonging”, it is Tony. Perhaps Phill will return to his natural position after a reread of SN and WPF:)
You are funny!
I like brainiacs the best so Joseph and Nick for me. Heehee
Lol, reread definitely helps to reshuffle my list of favourite Heroes.
I love heroes being mean and brainy. (The reason I cannot get over Vaughn.😮💨
Casey made Tony’s wall of resistance collapse. The progress was so endearing. (he is too good for me;-).
Nick hasn’t had his own book yet. My imagination of Nick remains out of bounds. Are we sure that Kathy is his endgame? Like Laura said, Nick needs a h to waken his inner alpha.😉 I feel that Nick and Joseph have that undercurrent of dominance simmering below their high cerebrality~whew, that’s hot~
Berenice,
💯 on everything you said. Brainy alphas are the best! Of course Kathy is Nicks endgame! They are perfect for each other and she has the brains and the beauty to keep Nick on his toes right?
Have you read anything that stayed with you recently? I haven’t read any new ones in awhile ..
J,
Nothing special, really. read some okay m/m romances and some dark romances which were HUGE disappointments.The one that sorta stayed with me was actually the lighthearted one. The Bad Guy by Celia Aaron. H reminds me of Benedict Cumberbatch’s Sherlock. Remember his line “I am a high-functioning sociopath”？That’s it. H was supposed to be a “psychopath” but his portrait in the book was just a brainy sexy Hero who had difficult in empathy.
Kingdom Fall by A. Zavarelli was also an interesting read. A bit like Sweet temptation both with some heavy-hearted twists.
I am currently reading Pretty Face by Lucy Parker(recommended by friends from bookclub, everyone was hyped about it. Age-gap, English man, so it’s supposed to have an intellectual H with a young tutee (h). I will give updates when I finish:)
Reading Pretty Face — first romance that’s kept my interest in quite some time — thanks Berenice!
ooh, I don’t mind high functioning sociopaths at all. I will def check that one out. Let me know if you like the Lucy Parker. I never heard of the author! I remember looking at your feed when we became friends on GR. Your interests are across the board and I put many on my list but haven’t gotten to any yet.
I think Jon looks better now than before.
Also, B changed her mind and is following in Casey’s footsteps. She is happier with this decision. I too am rereading Sense of Belonging now.
I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day weekend with your loved ones! I’m hoping we can get tix to Top Gun on Monday. The weekend is all sold out.
Hi Laura and everyone!
I read WPF/SN back in 2020 and messaged Laura all about my positive raving through FB messenger and then read her other books last year in 2021. I have never posted here before even though I’ve read most of the entries. I’m not even sure what is the best way to scroll through the comments – start from the top of the page and scroll down or go straight to the bottom and work upwards?
Laura, don’t stop writing the story that your characters tell you! I want to read them! These are still my favorite books. I can’t wait for your next story and I popped in on this blog to actually check and see if you had any news about it. What a fun surprise that new convos had started 🙂 that I could sort of jump in.
Anyway, so much discussion about Phil and Lina and then Kim. I am a Phil fan, but an even bigger Lina fan. If looking at Kim through the lens of everyone else besides the Hunters, she is a very accomplished and intelligent woman. I don’t think her parents are oblivious to how driven or even conniving she is. But she is their daughter so they love her anyway, flaws and all. Whether they know her full motives and complete personality or not, they likely know something about her story is off based on the brief interlude between them and Phil in SN, realizing that not only does he have a family, but a wife who he has no intention of leaving. What I got out of everything was that Kim set her sights on Phil before they even met. He was like the creme de la creme of attorney royalty – symbolizing success, sexiness, power and whatever it was that made her view him as a prize to be won and conquered because it would show what a winner she is, too – the whole prom king and queen concept. No one else would do and married or not, that was irrelevant to her because once Phil met Kim in person, he would be so smitten with her that he’d forget about his wife in an instant because how could he resist this woman who was like his equal in the attorney world? Then they’d start conquering all lawyer things together and take over the whole world and grace the cover of attorney magazines because they are also beautiful, too, so don’t begrudge them that! Obviously she hadn’t counted on him having his own personality and desires and wants, which meant he wasn’t even tuned in to her attempts at seduction for a long time because he had the person he always wanted at home. I loved this about Phil, though – he was never going to be controlled or manipulated by anyone.
When I read cheating stories (specifically where the couple is married and eventually reconcile), the cheating aspect always starts with some kind of broken down aspect in the relationship and when the affair takes place, it’s like the person (usually the man) is on a vacation. He can just partake in the fun part without the responsibility aspect. That’s why Phil compartmentalized this so well. There was stress at work and especially at home, so Kim was this simple, uncomplicated escape. I genuinely think he felt he was being extremely direct about expectations, that he would never leave Lina, and that Kim would not question it further if they did have no strings attached, not realizing that she had a long game in her own mind. Phil is super perceptive, especially at work with picking apart motives in the courtroom, but I think in this case, in his personal life, he had blinders. And in his weak moment of feeling like maybe he wasn’t able to hold up his household between the wife and kids, having Kim looking at him with hero worship was kind of addicting and a feeling he enjoyed and wanted to feel again and again since it had been so long. Phil is very talented in many ways, he’s not used to not having the answers or solutions backfiring on him so I can see where this chipped away his wall to let in a distraction like Kim and also let it go as far as it did even if he never thought once that it was going to be some permanent thing. But for Kim, she wasn’t getting through to Phil beyond the physical acts, she was still a dirty secret and obviously she wasn’t having that because that didn’t align with her plan and maybe because Lina wasn’t some high powered attorney, Kim was egotistical enough to believe that Lina couldn’t keep Phil’s interest so she had to make the biggest waves possible – texting Phil, calling him at home, getting pregnant – stuff to garner attention and to instigate conflict so she could forcefully sway Phil to her side. The woman does not like losing or being made a fool of even if he made zero promises to her.
Phil – he’s not perfect and he is selfish, but he undoubtedly loves Lina. But after thinking about him for a very long time, I eventually made peace and understood him even though I’m not like him and can’t actually think like him. Maybe at first I would’ve liked to see some actual groveling, but like Laura says, that’s not Phil and I do think actions speak louder than anything else to showcase the change. I don’t focus on the details of when and where and how much because it will keep me up all night, but I do see the bigger picture that Phil finally connects together during the aftermath of his affair revealed. Plus, watching how he is with both Shiloh’s and Alice’s significant others, Phil still has very high expectations and standards of what a father and husband should be like. He does regret everything and it hits him hard because for so long, he had it all and it was close to perfect. Then it all fell apart and tore him wide open. Not that he cares much what others think, but he still respects his own parents, brother and Lina and loves his kids. I don’t know that Katie was unaffected by the affair as much as she was more go with the flow with it, because Phil had a iron fist with her before and now that he made his own grave mistake, he couldn’t judge her as harshly nor could he be so stern about what privileges she had anymore. I think she liked that she had more leeway and a voice that he actually listened to. Plus, I got slight Alice vibes out of Katie, meaning Katie is more laidback in her approach to relationships in the sense that she understands that people can’t be boxed into definitions and it’s okay if things are unconventional or people have a misstep along the way. What I loved the most about Phil was his new perspective on life, that he hurt Lina so deeply and that’s not something every marriage can bounce back from, but theirs did and he would never take it for granted again. Because he did take her for granted before and this part of him that lived through a downfall now understands that Lina is even more perfect to him than ever before because she still loves him just as much and forgives him completely. That even with Kim’s ugliness in his life, that still didn’t tarnish or ruin the authenticity of Lina’s heart and her ability to forgive him or to accept Liam as her own.
I don’t even know where I was going with this next. I was just putting some thoughts out there and trying to participate in the discussion.
Hi Laura!
Thanks! I don’t care much for Kim, but like all of the characters in the story, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about them from all angles 😊
What are the possibilities of Meghan becoming a “Kim” clone? She’s entitled, smart and beautiful like her parents and wants what she wants. I had the opportunity to help out my nephew and his wife recently for a small family crisis and my nephew’s wife wanted something new to read so I gave her my kindle and recommended WPF and SN. There was a method to my madness. She is a clinical psychologist.. so is my nephew. It was very enlightening to hear her talk about the characters with my nephew and what they would think of them if they were their patients.
She loved your writing and how well you brought your characters to life. She said there were a few times that she would have thrown the kindle if it was hers. Interesting perspectives from both of them… sometimes the same sometimes very different. I guess it was the way males and females process information. My nephew didn’t read the books his wife just relayed the pertinent information.
I hope the possibility is very slim, especially after living the aftermath in her own family. She may find herself above being someone who would cheat.
Yes, that would be quite interesting!
That’s exactly what my nephews wife thought. My nephew had a slightly different opinion. There again I guess it’s the difference between how male and female brains are wired.
Michelle,
I hear you! Great assessment of the characters as Laura mentioned. I think I follow you on GR. Lol. If this is you, I love your thorough reviews and found some good ones after reading yours.
I read a good cheating one Miri recommended. Never Greener by Ruth Jones. It’s a Brit chick lit so the guy cries here and there- if any one reads it, I would love your take on it. He cheats after 5 hours of meeting the OW then breaks it off then cheats again after 10 years. I’m still not sure if he truly loves his wife?!🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Hi Janet! I don’t know if you do follow me on Goodreads, but if so, how very nice to meet you elsewhere! I am always a little embarrassed that people read my reviews, lol.
I have not heard of that book, but now I’m checking it out and one-clicking! Thanks for the rec! I love to read all of these dilemmas and angst in books. But in my own real life, absolutely not, lol.
Obviously, I am not a Kim fan! But I agree with analysis that emphasized Kim’s complexity!!
She can be a conniving instigator and a pathetic OW who cannot see things beyond her own perception at the same time. She was incapable of reconciling her egotistical delusion and the reality that Phil didn’t want her. I think that’s why many of her calculated actions were backfired.
I want to add that Kim parents’ accommodating attitude might also derive from their daughter’s intelligence and success and that they are not witnesses or recipients to her aggressive/dubious behaviors. I know it’s impossible but I think that they would have been shaken a little bit if they had had first-hand experience of how Kim hurt Lina and the Hunter family??or of any past dubious behaviors they knew about?? However they might suspect Kim of her version of the story in SN and thereafter, the severity of Kim’s behaviors was nonetheless lessened in their eyes as usual because of the lack of context…Idk, I am probably too critical and cynical 😮💨 I shouldn’t pay much attentions to Kim. She is irrelevant to Hunter family now!!
B,
You are right. Kim is irrelevant to the family now but I loved hating her. Lol. She was an integral part of the duet and gosh, I miss her shenanigans. Such a worthy evil OW, no?!🤣
Wasn’t that so so good Tracie? My heart was pounding reading that morsel Laura gifted us here. Waaahh I miss them. And, who misses Phil more than you?! You also said something very similar about Phil before in your response to Michelle. At this point, we are a broken record. heehee waahh waah.
Laura, I’m in a mood for a NFL hero. Did you write anymore of that book? The quarterback will have other women problems up the wazoo and his personality seemed similar to Phil’s right?
Oh no J-Girl she’s working on my widowed single dad doctor….Woooohooo.
Can’t wait….Since we are a broken record Laura you could drop a slight morsel of our hot single dad…I won’t even ask for a steamy this early in the process….
Wow, that was a good segue! Bahahaha. Laura, the 101 ways to smooth talk Laura into revealing scenes has started. 🤣🥰😘. Tracie, don’t think I didn’t notice “my widow” part either. You make me laugh out loud.
J, Sorry for the late reply!!
I agree! Kim is definitely a worthy OW/villain.😮💨 hard to get over~
Lol Tracie, Phil is the whole success package and he knows it. I think that’s why he demands so much of his kids, because a lot of things come so easy to him – academics, athleticism, good looks, becoming partner at his firm, etc. To give him credit, minus everything to do with Kim, he is really good with being a provider and a protector.
😮,noooo!
Following up Deb’s question, Laura, Phil didn’t compare Lina’s and Kim’s sexuality ?? right?? right??😮
He was just in the heat, stupidly feeding his wounded ego with some enjoyable sex with an [above average yet nothing special to him] kind of woman (Kim)??? Phil was numb because of compartmentalise and all the pains he got from the “perfect storm”. Hence, he would not think that much about Lina other than he needed to conceal his affair from Lina (a degree of basic calculation and deception for anyone who ever had an affair)???
Of course not. Believe it or not, I talked to several men during the writing of this novel. As Janet so wisely stated somewhere below, men don’t think like women. Men know this and they also know that women don’t think like men. Why do women in insist on believing that men think? haha
The renewing the vows comment made me think- i think it’s a sweet idea and yes, others have pointed that out in the past. However, I thought Phil taking Lina to Paris (was it Hotel Crillon?) was more romantic and right up Phil’s alley since that’s where they went on their honeymoon. I loved that Phil being sad moment looking at the Xmas ornament. 🤣🥰
I think it’s Hôtel Plaza Athénée~😌
I agree! It’s bound with their history and a romantic getaway is forthrightly thoughtful like Phil’s love to Lina. Vow renewal in my opinion is sweet yet a little bit too “dainty” to be Phil’s choice🤔🤔
Ahh yes B! Thank you! Can you imagine the commentary between Megan and Katie if they did renew the vows? I would love to read it just for that. Liam would be a cutie and Logan will go along with whatever Lina wants but Katie would be mortified. Lol. And our dear Megan would die if Lina decided to wear white again for the event🤣
Maybe Lina would ask Phil to renew their vows in private just between themselves to reassure herself that even though he broke their wedding vows he would never cross that line again. Remember her confidence was shattered with the affair which Phil didn’t realize until the party at Wayne and Diane’s to welcome a new partner. After thinking about it for a while I don’t think Lina would want a public renewal…just something between her and Phil. I am sure if Lina asked him Phil would be 100% on board. He would do anything to reassure Lina of his total devotion. I would like to imagine Phil repeating his wedding vows to Lina in Paris.
That’s a great idea Deb and I would like to think they did renew it in their hotel bed in Paris. It seems more special that way. As Tracie always says, swoon !
Lina would never ask Phil to renew their vows. But like Janet said, I can see them in Paris lying in bed and Phil telling Lina he’ll always put her first. He would tell her with feather light kisses how much he loved her and would spend the rest of his life making sure she felt it. Big Swoon!
Laura
I still haven’t finished reading all of your blog posts so just a few questions. In WPF Lina mentioned to Diane at the first dinner after the tie incident that she sensed tension between Phil and Wayne. Had Wayne talked to Phil about his affair with Kim and that was the cause of the tension? If so would that discussion have taken place before or after SB and wouldn’t Phil be concerned that if Wayne had discovered his infidelity that it was only a matter of time before Lina discovered the affair. I know everyone says Phil wasn’t in his right mind, which I agree, but I know he would never want to hurt Lina with that knowledge even in his “his fog state” of mind. He’s not a stupid or cruel man. We know that he planned on sleeping with Kim on Saturday and then again the following week when they traveled. How much longer do you think he would have continued sleeping with her if Lina hadn’t reached out to him that night…a few weeks, another month or until he found out Kim was pregnant. Reading When I Saw You again…love your characters.
I spent hours and hours answering these questions and unless it’s something quick, I just don’t have the time to draft another response. The bottom line – Phil cheated on Lina. The ugly details have always seemed irrelevant to me.
This novel isn’t about an affair. It’s about a family dealing with the aftermath of an affair.
I firmly believe that Phil is a good man who did a very bad thing.
Laura, I was not going to let another day go by without letting you know that you are one of the BEST story telling writers I’ve read. I have been reading cheating/angst /marriage in trouble books for about 1.5 years for personal reasons.
I purchased SN before WPF. I am not sure if the blog ladies has made up a Team Lina? If not I am Lina’s # one fan. Lina is one of the STRONGEST female character I’ve ever read. She has guts and determination one solid bitch. I liked her relationship with Nick, I felt she was justified. Until you Laura made me see that my girl Lina was emotionally cheating on Phil. I’m thinking all CRAP, Laura is on point girlfriend did cheat emotionally on hubby. But I do not believe Lina would have ever slept with Nick. Lina’s love for Phil was stronger than her semi lust for Nick even though Phil broke her heart. This is why I loved/liked Lina so much she gave Phil the chance to heal the hurt with her and the rest of the family.
There were times that I wanted to slice/dice Phil’s gonads and feed them to the seals. I wanted Phil to grovel, sling snot, to Barrow and back. To beg Lina to forgive him to tell her how sorry he was and he would never cheat again. Laura you kept it really real you showed me how useless the word sorry is. It is the ACTION that counts in a marriage relationship. How I wish I had known this in my life. Thank you so much for that Laura,
Don’t you ever let the nasayers stop you from writing, you have a gift of telling wonderful beautiful stories. AND this fan of yours wants to read each and every one of them.
I also want to give out a “SHOUT OUT” to Ms. Tracie. Tracie when Laurie was too busy you took up the slack and answered all of the questions. Thank you wonderful and TALENTED in your own right. Also the class of 2020 & 2021 thank you for answering and the asking questions that I was thinking but did not know how to put down on paper.
Laura one more thing I have not finished WPF or SN. WPF gives me anxiety in a good way. As I used to tell my kids your writing makes my liver’s shake it is so intense. Lol! If it had not been for your blog and the wonderful women that asked questions and got answers I don’t think I would be able to finish WPF & SN. I am one of those people that have to know that the ending is going to be something that I can believe and live with. Now that I know the Hunters will be able to withstand any hardship that comes their way I’m good. Thank you Laura sooo much I can’t wait for your new book. It isn’t out yet is it?
Laura sorry I have a lot more questions but I will ask just this one please? Did Phil ever come home smelling of nasty assed Kim, if not where did he shower and brush his teeth?
Please excuse any mispelled or incorrect writing or sentences. I am not good at this blogging.
Hi Ella! Welcome to the blog!
Thanks for your kind words — I’m team Lina too!!! And you know Tracie is as well.
Did Phil ever come home smelling like Kim — I hope not. He would shower — there was a corporate apartment. Ugh hate the thought.
Laura
Laura…was the pink tie incident and Kim’s text the first time Lina would have suspected that Phil was unfaithful? Did Phil feel any guilt
when he returned home after his first tryst with Kim or was he still so angry about their fight? Who made the first move in the bar? Would alcohol have played a part in him giving in to his desires for Kim? Since Diane told Lina that Kim was chasing Phil from the very beginning I figure that there had to be some flirting, although in the beginning innocent on Phil’s part, going on all along. How many times would Phil have had sex with Kim over that 4 month period…feasibly over 100 times if he had sex with her multiple times a day. That is what was so hard for me to reconcile Phil’s “love” for Lina. That number makes you think how could he have been so stupid and selfish when Lina was his “life”. Would he have ever compared Kim to Lina in his mind during sex? I think he might have since men are men. I guess every time it got easier since he was obviously setting up trysts with Kim while home with Lina. Did he EVER think about Lina and have any regrets when he got home after each encounter? If Lina hadn’t reached out to Phil that night how much longer would he have continued the affair…maybe until he realized Kim was pregnant? What would Linas response had been if the affair was still in full swing when he told her about the affair and pregnancy? How would Phil have reacted if Lina told him that she would take back her maiden name in the divorce papers and maybe Logan saying that when he turned 18 he would take his Moms maiden name. I think it would destroy him. If and how would Phil try to win Lina back if she did decide to go through with the divorce? Was the separation initially his response to Lina seeing Nick or to give her a sense of independence as he later stated. I just finished SN for the second time and luckily this book helped me forgive Phil. There were times in WPF that I wanted to gut Phil and strangle him with his entrails. Sorry for so many questions. I’ve been jotting them down as I reread both WPF and SN. Laura you bring your characters to life…great job. I am sorry if these questions have already been answered but I haven’t read the entire blog yet.
Deb,
Yes, the pink tie incident was the first Lina suspected an affair.
I don’t know what Phil was feeling — I’m sure there was some guilt, but as Zaincruise said in an earlier quote — he wasn’t himself during this period — he was acting out of character. He felt he had failed his family and he basically cracked. When a spouse has an affair, the other isn’t privy to their inner thoughts. I was with Lina, not Phil, during this affair. I only wrote his actions. That is all Lina and the reader had to go on. I believe some people, particularly men, have an amazing ability to compartmentalize — this is what Phil did. His affair was completely separate from his family. He didn’t let the two worlds touch each other. This is why the Steamboat encounter was so significant — Phil’s world collided. And that was the beginning of the end of the affair. Phil could not longer keep them separate in his head. And yes, the affair lingered for a couple more weeks but it was ending and Phil was coming out of his fog.
Kim was a flirt with men. Phil wasn’t flirting with Kim. He didn’t even really notice her until he went down to the bar. And yes, Kim made the first move. How many times did they have sex? Lina decided in the first draft — about 80 times.
The separation was Phil giving Lina the space she wanted. Would he eventually try to win her back? Yes, absolutely. The only thing that would have made Phil give up is Lina marrying another man — otherwise he would have waiting and made small moves.
Laura
Thank goodness you were in Lina’s mind not Phil’s …you would have gone crazy trying to be in his mind or any man’s mind while they were having an affair because they’re not thinking. I know some people wanted to see more groveling from Phil but as you said actions count…words not so much. I watched my best friends marriage implode because of her husbands affair 15 years ago. He talked a good game but his actions were the exact opposite of his promises. I think Phil would carry the guilt until his dying breath but Lina’s love would keep him from ever straying again. I don’t see Lina throwing his affair in his face once she forgave him and once her love for Liam was established. She would never want Liam to feel any guilt about his existence. Would Kim ever have a relationship with Liam or would she see him a a sign of her failure? Would Liam want anything to do with Kim when he got older if he learned of Kim’s scheming to get his father to leave Lina?
I agree — Phil would carry the guilt forever. And Lina would completely forgive him.
Kim isn’t someone who would ever admit failure. And yes, when it servers her purpose, she would want a relationship with Liam. When he’s a teenager excelling in school and sports she would love to show him off a bit. I think Liam would be curious about Kim. He may be attracted to her jet setting life — but, Lina is who he would turn to if he needed a mother. And I don’t think he would ever trust Kim. If he knew the lengths she went to hurt Lina, no, he wouldn’t want a relationship.
OMG…I had no idea it might have been as high as 80 times in 4 months that Phil slept with Kim. How did the man have time for anything else!
Have missed these discussions. I kept checking the link for months, and it was as if all the cool kids were hanging out somewhere else that I didn’t know about. So glad the comments have resumed. Now feeling the need to do another reread of Laura’s books.
Does this bother anyone else–Phil’s willingness to possibly expose Lina to STDs calls is almost impossible to understand given that he must have known Kim was a player. I understand he was in a “fog” but still….
I didn’t say 80 times. I said that’s what Lina decided. And Kim wasn’t sleeping with anyone else, so how would he know she was a player? He wasn’t paying much attention to her.
And I think everyone was bothered by the unprotected sex, but without it there would be no Liam. And we wouldn’t really have a novel.
Laura
Just a quick question… was Phil really instigating all of their trysts? I know Kim wanted Lina to think it was always Phil so that’s why she forwarded those texts but surely he wasn’t so taken with her that all he thought of was getting her back into bed. When would he have had time to win his biggest case when he couldn’t stay out of Kim’s bed.
No. I’m sure Kim was careful with the text she chose to send to Lina.
Laura
What do you think Phil could have said or done that night in the bar that gave Kim the impression that now was the time to seduce him? I can’t see him saying “Lina and I just had a big fight and we aren’t having sex as often as I want it”. I know you said that Phil told Kim that he loved Lina and would never leave her but in Kim’s mind his words and actions were not compatible. I am assuming he had that discussion with her before their first sexual encounter or maybe immediately after their first time together. I can see why Kim would think that she had him in the palm of her hand since they were going at it like rabbits but then I was thinking why did she intentionally get pregnant so early in the affair probably within weeks of the affair beginning. It obviously wasn’t a one night stand since Phil was willing to risk discovery of the affair by using the corporate apartment during working hours to have sex with her. I would think Kim would feel pretty confident that she would eventually wear him down. Was she so used to instant gratification and didn’t want to wait for what she thought was inevitable…. Phil leaving Lina for her? I think I remember someone saying he would not have been loving towards Kim after they had sex and maybe that was her “ ahh” moment that she had to push her agenda ( her pregnancy). I am hoping that it was Kim not Phil who instigated the continuation of the affair since Phil admitted to Lina that is was a one night stand until it wasn’t. I would hate to think he approached Kim to continue their affair but maybe he did. Laura you have such a gift for development of your characters and bringing them to life for your readers. Thank you for sharing your gift with your readers.
Hi Deb
Phil would of said absolutely nothing to Kim in that bar about his fight or sex life with Lina. His mood after the fight was her green light. Kim probably played the accommodating seductress explaining she could relieve his stress with no strings etc. We talked about this before where we decided he let her knew before he left his bar stool that he loved his wife, would never leave her or his family and she was just a distraction.
Also, you have to remember, Phil was a powerhouse lawyer very dedicated to his job. He would have never jeopardized his career having crazy sex at all hours a day. Remember he said after the wedding scene slap in WPF now everyone in that room knows I had an affair. Remember at the first of SN when he said he needed to apologize to his secretary because she knew about the affair before everyone else did. Because she saw Kim setting on his couch while he finished his work. Remember Lina being happy he was home for dinner early at the first of WPF?
That was because he wouldn’t have used that corporate apartment until the end of the day or for a late lunch that wouldn’t garner any attention that it was being used.
I don’t know if you have seen it or not, but Janet replied to one of your messages further down in the thread.
Why would Phil explain anything to Kim? He respects her as a colleague but his marriage isn’t any of her business. The night they started the affair, he threw his cell against the wall and came down to the bar. I’m sure all it took for Kim was to be at the right place at the right time. In that sense Phil wasn’t lying when he said in SN-“ you think it was you? It could have been anyone.” All Kim had to say was Hi, bad night? I can make it better. And all Phil had to say was I’m married and I’m not leaving my wife. This means nothing.” – that’s it. Kim would have accepted the crumb thrown her way.
Exactly Salt..Kim would of been the ultimate crumb snatcher…
Tracie, bahaha! That made me laugh out loud. It’s pretty pathetic that she had to snatch the crumbs here and there. I hope she got down on the floor looking for some more. What a pleasant visual for me. 🤣
As women, we are fixated on details and explanation/answers but guys aren’t wired this way. Did Phil think I screwed her 3x today? No. But of course, I want to know when where why what -down to the shoe choice for Kim!
Now the shoe comment made me laugh out loud. I can see you wanting to know about the shoes. I’m sure they were sky high and color coordinated with red soles.
I’m am so late to the WPF party; I just read it for the first time August 2022, but I don’t think I can exaggerate how much of an impact it has had on me. (In fact, after I read it, I systematically read all of Laura’s books.) While I could share so many thoughts I have about this book (and SN) — dissections of the characters, the story, the writing — all I found myself thinking about today was Laura’s use of dialogue. More precisely, how she wrote Phil’s dialogue. The reason I am posting here rather than making a separate post is because I see that Laura says here that she wrote from Lina’s perspective, and that really got me thinking. We had a window into Lina’s mind and heart, we witnessed her heart ground to paste, but Laura notes that she just catalogued Phil’s actions. What I was always struck by was how Phil’s dialogue, for the most part, lacked attributions. We had his words, but they existed without any verbs to show how he delivered them (Did he yell, groan, grit out, etc.?) and no description appeared to hint at how he was feeling as he delivered his words. I realize now, having read what Laura said here, that these omissions were intentional to serve the story. Since this is my first time on the website, I see now that there are bonus scenes, scenes that strip Phil bare and show just how gutted he is, and I guess I really needed that (even though we get so much more of him in SN) because when he would have several lines of dialogue that just sat there without the context of his feelings, actions, or vocal tone, I found myself more angry with him. I was unsettled by him, how unruffled he seemed, so damn matter-of-fact that he risked being smug, and it was hard to believe it when he said he was sorry, largely because of how he came across in dialogue. For the first few rereads, I felt like Phil was so flat that he came across too harsh and unrepentant. But today, I was like, oh my goodness that is such an ingenious literary choice here. Clearly, WPF is Lina’s story – the aftermath of your husband’s affair grenade going off in your chest and obliterating your heart. If we had too much Phil, it would tip the balance or at least ameliorate Lina’s pain in the eyes of the reader if we could see too much of Phil’s side or understand him better. The beauty and strength of the story is that family triumphs, and it should be hard to accept that Lina would forgive Phil because it would be. That’s what makes her forgiveness akin to grace because it’s undeserved. Sometimes you have to choose the life you know you want for the future in the present, even when that choice feels untenable. So, psychologically, it made more sense from a character development POV to limit our understanding of Phil because how many times did Lina say, “I don’t even know who you are.”? Those are devastating words from your spouse, especially when that person is supposed to know you better than anyone. The distance and disconnect of Phil as a character brought about by the stark dialogue helps us get a better sense of how Lina is feeling. She was blindsided, and because of how the dialogue is written, Phil seems inaccessible to us as the reader just as Lina feels like she can no longer understand him. While I still wish Phil would grovel more, be more broken, I am just awed by this stylistic choice, especially since it is in keeping with who Phil really is. Absolutely brilliant. Even though I am late to the party, I’m just glad it’s still going on, and I am ready to join the dance.
Hi Michelle! Thanks for you comments. There are literally thousands of comments on this blog and you actually pointed out something unique. And you were right, Phil was inaccessible to the reader most of the time. Every once in a while, he let his wall come down, but this was only to Lina.
Hi Laura,
I am trying to find A Sense Of Belonging in paperback but can’t find it. Is it out in paper?
Thanks,
Ella
Have you girls ever wondered what Kim’s parents thought of her or if they ever talked with her about her relationship with Liam. I wonder if Kim’s mom ever apologized to Lina for pursuing Phil knowing he was a married man.
Hi Tracie,
I think you guys discussed this in the past??☺️
I gathered that Kim’s parents wouldn’t get the whole picture of this “saga”. Kim wouldn’t tell/confess to them the whole truth, for one thing she didn’t want to paint herself in a bad light. Also she herself, living in her own narcissistic universe, believed that she was “manipulated by Phil” etc etc, so even in her own mind, the affair was a distorted picture without any objective intervention. So her parents probably would just have to accept the morally dubious picture that Kim painted for them regarding the affair.
I also think Phil and Lina wouldn’t bother to sit down with Kim’s parents to have a heart to heart conversation about the affair. They are just cordial acquaintances to Phil and Lina. I think Phil would never have that kind of words exchange with “strangers”?? I imagine Lina respects them as Liam’s grandparents and give them accessibility to Liam, being the nice and kind Lina as she always was?? Moreover, to discuss the past affair with Kim’s parents would look unnecessarily defensive?? Lina is confident to welcome them to stay in while they came to visit Liam. However, the whole decision/movement is definitely under Hunter household rule.The Hunter family moved past from this chapter so no need to bring it up again. Kim’s parents are sophisticated enough to sense that, I guess.
Also, Kim’s own parents obviously knew how Kim is as a person, at least thru rosy parental glasses. They accepted Kim to be an “exceptional” and successful daughter with her own “flaws” (not the harsh, cold, true version of the flaws but the rosy glasses version of the flaws). Kim probably toned herself down while she was with her parents (I vaguely remember Laura said this😂). So I imagine Kim’s parents knew how dubious the situation was but decided to gloss over Kim’s own wrongdoings. Parents, when deal with self-centred/ self-absorbed child, could be a little bit enabling and super accommodating, if the child is generally functioning if not successful. They might scold her privately for not take an active role as Liam’s mother. But I imagine they turn a blind eye as usual and accept that she is a “modern” woman without too many maternal instincts. They probably sighed “Kim is Kim”🤔🤔
Berenice I degree with your assessment. But I can tell you this about me, there would be no parent rose colored glasses. My daughter would know exactly how I felt and just like Kim’s parents I would have a relationship with my grandchild. I would also apologize to Lina, even though Phil was a consenting adult.
Tracie!
Lol!! I agree!!🤓
I must say that we are privileged by the “omniscient reader point of view”. Kim’s parents, on the other hand, would never know all the horrible things their daughter did, so basically it’s out of their control, their over thirty-year-old successful daughter and their grandson’s father side of family. The only thing they can do is to be loving grandparents to Liam. Certainly, they are used to the idea of their daughter to be a metropolitan girl type.
I am not sure but I am trying to draw a parallel between Meghan and Kim. I imagine Meghan, to a lot of people, is insufferable. When Meghan grew older and became completely independent, let’s say over thirty, her personality must draw some people to like her and a certain amount of people to dislike/even hate her (yes, even now a lot of reader dislike her with a passion for her OTT self-absorption). I am not saying that Meghan would do something nasty like sleeping with a married men or other horrible stuff Kim did. But given her controversial personality, in her adulthood, there must be people clashing with her and thinking she is “selfish” etc etc. But Lina and Phil as her parents would be absent to most of her adulthood “dramas”. They, especially Lina, might have some vague ideas of it. However, they just don’t know all the events in Meghan’s life any more and couldn’t be objective judges of her and her life anyway. The positive side of this is Phil and Lina, as Meghan’s parents with all the highs and lows of Meghan thru the years, would continue to be supportive and loving parents to Meghan. But for people who don’t share these experiences and relationships (not parents, siblings or bff) with Meghan, they would simply pointed out what they disliked and turn against/away from her.
I remembered Laura said that her depiction of Kim is the emphasis on her relation to and involvement with Phil, the affair and the consequences but she was also sure that a lot of people in Kim’s life who know the other sides of Kim and were not direct victims to her narcissism would find her likable. Laura’s reply was mixed with how to make OW more likable but I dig in on that a little bit and imagine her parents are among those people and probably are on the top list of it.🤔
Totally agree Berenice. The subject would never be broached by the Hunters. I’m sure Kim’s parents would be disappointed by Kim’s lack of parental participation.
Something stuck out to me in Berenice’s response where she said Kim was a Metropolitan type girl and Phil to me was just the opposite. Don’t get me wrong Phil could fit in or play the part in any environment, but he was the lounge pant, chill out guy after work. Brings me back to the Thanksgiving scene where he said you don’t know me enough to love me….
I wonder if Kim would of been disenchanted with the real Phil? Not the sharp dressed man that dominated a courtroom, but the man that wanted to spend time with his kids on the weekends. Spreading mulch in his wife’s flowerbeds or going to Lacrosse games after work, etc….
Lol!! I totally agree with that Phil could fit in any environments!! The difference is some environments are what he likes and enjoys, the others are professional environments that he could perform regardless of his own preference!!
I came up with this idea when I was binge watching “The Crown” and had a discussion of Princess Di’s marriage “fiasco” with friends😂. Di struck me as a “Metropolitan Girl” and her then husband was not. There’s no which is nobler than which. It’s just simply the emphasis on the severe contrast of their lifestyle interests which made their marriage life miserable. Di liked the city life , bourgeois artistic/intellectual circles and all the single-life/hipster fun stuff and her ex husband was a “country man”, hiking, hunting and fine literature/art appreciation. Di ultimately paid for her childish crush/enchantment with great cost! Kim was similar from this perspective. Kim was mesmerised by Phil as a man but her own life, life interest and lifestyle couldn’t be more different to Phil’s.
Tbh, I think the opposite of “Metropolitan girl” is more elegant and sophisticated than the “Metropolitan girl” lifestyle! It’s my personal preference. Also, Kim’s addiction to Phil was probably too deep to regret and she definitely tormented herself to both resent and secretly be attracted to Phil for many years after the affair.
Hi Tracie,
Like others have said, I don’t believe that Kim’s parents would approach the Hunters. After
they get to know Lina, they will probably wonder how could Phil have ever cheated on her? They know for a fact that Phil was married to Lina when Liam was conceived. They also probably realized after speaking to Phil the first time that Phil did not know Kim before she moved to Baltimore. Kim’s dad knows she lied when she told him Phil was divorcing Lina when they met. He told Kim he remembered what she told him about Phil’s marital status
What I wonder is when Kim gets married and has her own family, will she have a different perspective about pursuing Phil?
Holley I don’t think Kim would of had anymore children. Remember when she told Phil in the bonus scene that she was just not a baby type person. Like Laura said once it would probably be an older guy…I think she said a successful investment banker. Kim would want money and prestige, not a family.
My opinion only, but I don’t think she would of changed her perspective on chasing Phil. Kim went for what she wanted without any remorse or guilt.
Hello everyone
I think Kim’s parents knew exactly the type of person she was…driven and accustomed to getting exactly what she wanted. I am sure they encouraged her to go after her dreams not knowing that she wanted to destroy a marriage to accomplish her ultimate goal of what she thought was a perfect life for herself, I know her sister knew what her intentions were when she took the job at Phil’s law firm so she must have confided in her at some point. I wonder what Kim’s excuse was when her parents came at Christmas to see Liam and Phil was no where to be seen? I think Kim’s parents would have been too embarrassed to even broach the subject of Kim’s lack of maternal interest with Lina and Phil. I am sure they thought Lina was a saint. Not sure what their true feelings would have been about Phil other than him being their grandsons father and glad that Lina was his wife.
I don’t know if this was discussed but had Phil been drinking a lot after his fight with Lina and that made him more receptive to Kim’s advances? I assume that Kim made the first advance and since I think I remember it being said that she was after him from day 1 that major flirting had been going on for months prior to their first romp. Did he actually think it was a one night stand as he told Lina after admitting to the affair and then he came home and the tension was still so high from their fights over Kate that he was okay with “ relieving his stress” in bed with Kim. I guess it’s such a foreign concept to me that a man that says he loves his wife so much doesn’t see anything wrong with an extra marital affair….no guilt at all until the affair was uncovered. He was actually planning romps with Kim with Lina sitting next to him at the kitchen table or sitting room. That was such a narcissistic move. Laura’s characters are so well developed that one minute you hate him and the next you love him. He was lucky Lina was so forgiving because a vast majority of wives would have shown him the door. I have 2 friends who actually did that….the affairs destroyed their lives and their children’s lives. I was happy not to see that happen to the Hunter family. I don’t think Liam would have anything but a causal relationship with Kim as he matured especially if he found out about the true circumstances of his conception….Kim getting pregnant in a last ditch effort to get Phil to leave Lina. Lina will always be his mother. Going to reread SN on the beach….finally beautiful weather again here in Florida.
I don’t know where to reply so here’s my two cents.
Man, Phil always sucks me in. Lol. Who knew I would be the one defending him(Tracie’s Phil does not care) but seriously Phil needs me to butt in here for a bit.
Deb, I was in your shoes few years back and Laura and Tracie were my therapists while Laura wrote SN. But, once I forgave Phil at 87% of SN, I never looked back. He was faithful to his wife for 25 years. Since he was 16. Not giving him props for that but when Laura said he cracked bc he felt useless to his whole family and turned to Kim, he did have a full on affair. As much as I hate him for doing that, physical affair means sex. If he was using sex to escape, I’m surprised it wasn’t more than 80 days. After all, he was in the City for most of those 4 months so other than weekends he saw Kim every single day at work. Isn’t it the same in real life? And, I have read so many times on Goodreads why Phil wasn’t using protection. Weirdly, that is one thing I never questioned about Phil. He is at heart, a selfish character. If Kim told him she was clean and was on the pill, he had no reason to doubt her since he assumed they were on the same wavelength. I don’t think he saw any reason to distrust Kim at that point. Also, Kim may be a bitch but I don’t think she is a player. I’m sure she think it’s a privilege for men to date her so she’s very picky with the company she keeps. Bottom line, I think she’s just a home wrecker. To this day, I’m not a Phil fan but the Hunters have affected me in the books I choose to read, and even how I view certain people I come across in real life. And, when it came time for my kids to apply to colleges, I thought of Megan and Phil in their convos. I can’t wait Laura to write Liam/ Logan’s story. Can you please start now Laura?!
Hey Tracie
I couldn’t reply to your post for some reason so I had to go to an earlier post. I will look for Janet’s reply. I saw on the post I am replying to your question about Kim’s parents in regard to her relationship with Liam. I think her parents knew how ambitious and driven she was in life and encouraged her to pursue her dreams and do whatever it took to attain those dreams. Unfortunately for Phil he was her grand prize. Once they realized Phil was married and not separated at the time of the affair I am sure they put two and two together and probably thought her pregnancy was an accident. Her parents had to see her disconnect with Liam. The scene where Kim left Liam sobbing and calling for her showed that she didn’t have a maternal bone in her body. She must have confided in her sister at one point because she knew Kim came to Baltimore with the goal of chasing Phil. Not sure if Kim told her sister that he was married. Even if she had told her sister, I don’t think anything her sister could have said would deter her because she knew Kim was selfish and wanted what she wanted. I wonder how long it took Kim to figure out that her pregnancy was the wrong path to take in gaining Phil’s love and respect. I think Kim, to a small degree, resented Liam since he didn’t help her achieve her goal and she was happy for Lina to take care of him. Maybe in the back of her mind she thought that Lina would not like the daily reminder of Phil’s affair and maybe, just maybe, finally call it quits with Phil. Remember her sister told Phil that she still wanted him at any cost.. She didn’t know Lina very well that’s for sure or count on Phil’s tenacity in holding on to his marriage. I would like to think that Phil would ask Lina to renew their marriage vows as a symbolic gesture to start fresh with a clean slate.
Deb Laura actually thought that was a good idea at one time while she was writing SN. Another fan had suggested a vow renewal. But like Laura said you can’t put every good idea into a book because it would be to long. I personally think SN covered every important aspect of Phil and Lina’s journey. It proved that true love still exists and foundations can be repaired and made even stronger through adversity. The affair was just a wrong turn in that journey that made the crack in the foundation visible.
Tracie
So true…the vow renewal would just be icing on the cake. They were getting their happily ever after even without a renewal ceremony. Our youngest daughter is a Tracy obviously spelled differently. Laura did too good of a job bringing her characters to life.
It took me a while to forgive Phil and then I’m thinking “ why am I forgiving him…he’s a fictional character.
Yes he is a fictional character, however, through Laura’s talent in story telling, he was brought to life in our minds. So I’m glad you forgive him, because he was so very much worth forgiving…
Hi, everyone!
Just pop in for a thought.
I think that Phil was aware of how “dangerous” and “not right” the affair was, even when he was in the heat of the affair. It’s just that there’s this exigency for him to have/continue this affair. He had this urgent need to do it, a temporary fix as it was. He was in the “storm” which affected/hurt/disturbed him deeply and personally, a failed father and an unwanted husband as he thought he was (which was not true!!). It might look selfish outwardly but it was his life that was tormented. His recklessness and seemingly lack of judgment derived from his personal turmoil. He chose not or was too occupied by the amalgam of pain and frustration to think lucidly about how consequential his affair would be??
Tracie, what do you mean that Katie and Phil were alike in terms of academics?? I understand that Katie probably excelled at all the subjects she chose, same as Phil but I always thought that her interest in academics was different to Phil???🤔
Hi Berenice…their field of studies were different. Academically they were both straight A’s and I guarantee it came easy to them both. Even though Megan was a straight A student, in my mind, she had to work harder getting the grade than Katie. Logan is highly intelligent too! However, unlike Megan time waits on no man he better thing to do than study…Loved me some Logan…
Hi Tracie,
I agree, especially the Meghan part.
I also think that using Katie’s own word, she is WISE so I imagine she chose what she liked and excelled at them so she got immaculate transcripts at the end. I guess that if she studied something she disliked then it would impact her grades?? She lives for herself (very mature or “opinionated” for her age) and has her own operating logic, all sorts of justifications for doing her own things. I think Katie, except the depressing period of time, is good at managing herself. I bet she even has her own rationale on why she doesn’t tidy up her own room😂. She knows what she wants in life and has clear goal/ direction etc etc.
I imagine Phil as a student didn’t necessarily like all the subjects but he just knew how to study so whether he liked the subject or not, he always had the methods to succeed??
Logan!!! He was just bothered deeply by the affair, separation etc etc. I mean…of course Katie and Meghan cared about the affair/separation and were affected by it as well but they were not as deeply bothered as Logan was. The uproar and disruption hit Logan hard and clearly hurt him to an extent that he couldn’t operate his daily routine as usual🤔. Also, Logan probably was very picky?? Highly intelligent for sure but couldn’t get himself invested into all the boring K12 subjects properly. Thus, I imagine that once he finds his passion (architecture) in uni, he is going to be amazing!!
Logan will be Berenice…I can see him on the cover of Architectural Digest leaning against the front of his desk in a fitted Armani with his ankles crossed. He’ll be raved about for being one of the most innovative young architects in the field.
If Laura writes Liam’s book, I’ll have to have Logan just as successful as Liam…LOL.
I re-read WPF for a second time and I have to say it was as good as the first time I read it. I know Laura said that Phil and Kim messed around in his office. Do you think he would actually have full blown sex in his office or just heavy groping? I don’t see how he couldn’t have, even if it was in passing, not make a comparison to Lina and Kim’s bodies and their lovemaking styles? Would he cuddle and hold Kim all night when they slept together on their business trips or would he go back to his room? I mean it was a full blown affair. I haven’t read all of the blog so maybe this was discussed before…if so I apologize. Off the above train of thought from above but what do you think Phil’s reaction would have been if Lina said she wanted to take back her maiden name. If they had actually divorced do you think Phil would have “courted” her or would he have dated other women and tried to find love again? I know Lina forgave him but how long would it take her to trust and forget…or maybe trust but never forget. Sorry for so many varied thoughts but I jotted these down as I was reading WPF again. I finally came to see how sorry he was when I read that he has been going to his church every day to pray that Lina would forgive him. He was beating himself up for his selfishness and I stupidity in having the affair and the devastation it caused Lina and his family. At what point in the affair did Kim decide that she needed to get pregnant if she ever had any hope of getting Phil to leave Lina? That’s all my questions or thoughts from my second read through. I hope to start SN tomorrow. The weather has been lousy for our Florida trip….hope it’s better next week.
Hi Deb…sorry about the lousy weather on vacation. Laura will have to weigh in on and answer these questions. My opinion only..I think they probably did have full blown sex in his office, but probably only after everyone had left. He may risk a blow job during the day, but I don’t see him getting butt naked. Laura also once said that those big law firms have corporate apartments in the building so I’m sure that was used. I don’t think Phil cuddled Kim at all. We have talked about it and we concluded that once he was done with sex he became an island. Yes he slept all night with her but his character wouldn’t dictate any kind of emotional cuddle time with anyone other than Lina. I don’t think Phil would of compared Kim and Lina in anyway. His wife was his safe place and he loved her, so no he wouldn’t have had thoughts of Lina while having sex or gazing at Kim’s naked body. I think she got pregnant as a last resort when she realized two months in he was not going to put her on a pedestal and leave his wife. Kim was just a distraction he could take her or leave her. She had to have felt that rolling off of him, when he was upfront about Lina from the start.
Hi Deb,
I agree with Tracie on the sex in the office. I hate the thought but it probably did happen. I don’t believe he would have compared them sexually because that requires thoughts. Phil was not thinking about Lina during his affair, he was doing everything to avoid thinking about her in that sense. He was only thinking about his own pleasure 🥺.
I think Laura had said in the past that Phil would have waited until Lina had moved on as in getting remarried or something like that. Phil would have let Lina know he wanted her back but I don’t know if he would have courted her, that I think is a Laura question. I dont think he would have dated other women because what he really wanted was Lina and his family and after Kim he would have thought twice about rushing into anything. As for Lina changing her name, I dont believe she would have but if she did, Phil would be sad because that would have been another step in Lina moving on from him.
Your question about how long before she trusted him. I believe she trusted him as soon as they got back together. Would she trust but verify from time to time, I believe so. As for forgetting about the affair, I don’t think she can, I mean Liam lived with her. But she didn’t feed into the pain brought on by the affair. The thought of it was less painful with time. I don’t think it’s possible for Lina not to have some residual thoughts/memories of Phil’s affair. But I think she truly put it behind her and moved on.
What I’ve wondered from time to time is how Lina felt the first time Phil went away after they got back together. Did she get anxious when they argued when Phil was out of town after getting back together? After all, he got with Kim while away on a business trip. I remember a scene in SN where she was with Adele and she thought about Phil traveling and being approached and Adele told her not to go there.
I guess I have to agree that Phil was careless enough to have sex in the office after hours…I was hoping I was wrong. I think Kim was perplexed when Phil wasn’t racing for a divorce so he could marry her. I still find it hard to believe that he was so reckless in not using or being concerned about birth control after their initial time together. The first time I could see because he wasn’t planning on cheating on Lina. Did Kim suspect that she was pregnant when Phil broke things off with her and if so why didn’t she say something then and not until weeks later? Was she waiting to see if she could change his mind and resume the affair and leave the pregnancy news as a last ditch effort? Would Phil have ever forgiven Lina if she had slept with Nick during their separation? In the texts between Kim and Phil it appeared that Phil was the instigator in all of the liaisons after the affair began. My question is the text from Kim in the beginning of WPF in trying to arrange a tryst was she sensing Phil’s waning interest and that’s why she text him or was she hoping that maybe Lina would see her text? I still haven’t read all of the blog but I thought I read something about a book about the actual affair or did I misread or misunderstand? I didn’t know if this was a trilogy and I missed the first book. If so, that would be a difficult book to read and I would imagine a horror for Laura to write.
Holley I don’t think it would of bothered Lina when Phil went on his first trip. Their connection was strong she knew he wouldn’t cheat on her again. I heard once that forgiveness isn’t a feeling it’s a decision. Once Lina made that decision to forgive Phil and the pictures were put behind them, they were fine with each other.
Hi Deb no it wasn’t a trilogy. WPF was originally named the Affair and Laura’s editor pretty much had her rewrite the entire thing. Laura shared several of the deleted scenes on the blog.
The birth control issue was a a misstep on his part. Phil told us in the Thanksgiving scene that he had miss read the entire situation with Kim and Kim’s intentions. She told Phil she was on the pill and Phil knowing how many hours it took to make partner and as career driven as Kim was he believed her about the birth control. I think she knew she was pregnant before she texted him at the ball game. She would of had to get pregnant around the 23rd of March and he dumped her in May and by June she would of definitely known when she texted him.
Also, remember on the text messages to Kim from Phil…Kim probably picked the ones that made Phil look like the instigator which she knew would of hurt Lina the most. Kim never sent a text thread just Phil’s text. I figure after the Steamboat fiasco Kim started to feel him pulling away from her.
Laura said one time that Phil would of never wanted to know nor would he ask Lina what happened between her and Nick.
Laura, what an awesome gift you have!!!!! Have read thousands of books & these 2 are in the top 5!!!! Just found these awesome books. Read & reread about 10 times. I kept rereading them b/c I was trying to find answers to questions I had. So so glad I found this blog ( new to this, so please forgive any mistakes) The extra scenes read here answered a lot of them! Some parts just drove me crazy??? ??? Why was Phil so cold & hateful after Lena got texts & pics. Just deal with it??? What was said to that evil conniving Kim after each hateful act of hurt she dealt Lena? Lena was trying so hard to keep her family togrther but hit after hit of hurt?? No just NO!! Had to keep reminding myself, just a story, but gosh I got into these books mentally!!! Another part that drove me crazy was her kids. Her son, I was so proud of him! standing by his mom. The girls????? Their mom just got slapped with the worst hurt, & so what????? Her Mom?????? just get over it???? So THANK YOU for this blog… your gift of story telling & hours & hours, sometimes late into the night entertainment!!!! God bless & KEEP writing!!!
Thank you, Sharon! I appreciate you kind words — makes me smile.
In my experience, the more alpha the male, the angrier they get when they make a mistake — Phil was devastated by what was unfolding, but instead of crying and begging for forgiveness, which would have been completely out of character, he got angry. He wasn’t angry at Lina. He was always angry at himself, but he didn’t have the skills to separate his anger from Lina. He was like a little boy having a temper tantrum.
Yes, when I read the extra scenes here, I saw where you were going with it! I LOVED the one where he moved out then saw Kim!!! It all settled in my mind.then. So so glad I found this blog!!!! I could tell you put your heart & soul into the writing with the depth of characters & story line. Glad I could make you smile, this old lady believes in giving credit for a job well done!!! I have read all your books & waiting for more awesome reads from ya! Thank you!!! Blessed be!!!
Hi everyone,
To echo what Laura said, where has everyone gone 🙂? I ve busy with work and daughters are back to playing club sports so no free time for me.
I just thought of something. I know during the affair Phil was escaping, but was he ever afraid Lina would find out? He was careless at times like with the running group and touching Kim in public in New York.
Also I remember Lina saying to Nick that she didn’t Phil’s affair affected Katie or something to that effect and Nick said don’t be fooled she “Katie” cared. What did he mean by that because Katie truly seemed unaffected by the affair and Liam. If anything she thought now Phil could not expect his kids to be perfect.
I am new to this blog but I want to begin by saying I have enjoyed all of Laura’s books. I just read all of them over the holidays for the first time. You made me love these characters and at the same time ( yes you Phil) want to rip your eyebrows out. I have a quick question. How would the reconciliation between Lina and Phil have played out if after Lina read Kim’s text and Phil asked her what time Logan’s game was the next day and she responded “ why are you trying to figure out how you can find a few hours for Kim since Monday is too far away”
Would he have admitted to the affair and if so how would Lina have reacted since the affair was still in full swing even though in Phil’s mind it was winding down but he obviously was still not ready to cut Kim out of his life. Would she have asked him to leave immediately?
Hi Deb!
Welcome to the blog.
Interesting question. I think Phil would have denied an affair at that point. And if he admitted it — yes, Lina would tell him to leave.
Welcome Deb..Like you, I read A Sense of Belonging and then binge read her other two books in the same weekend with WPF being the last. Then hopped on this blog and we got the pleasure of Phil’s redemption in SN Loved them all..Can’t wait to see what questions you have or thoughts you’re thinking.
You are correct… selfish is a better word for Phil’s attitude during his affair
He admits that to Deb. That’s why I’ve always believed in his redemption. Chapter 47 of WPF sold me on him. The entirety of SN back that up for me. You said how could he have no guilt because Lina was his soulmate, he told us in SN he would live with the guilt of his betrayal for the rest of his life. Lina even had to berate herself a few times for having butterflies and an emotional connection with Nick, because he wasn’t Phil. They both screwed up.
I was planning on rereading WPF and SN
when we go on a trip south for a few weeks to get away from the cold and snow. I find that if I read a book a second time I always see things I missed or misread the first time around. I don’t usually read books more than once but Laura’s characters tug at your heart strings and deserve a second go around.
I thought the same thing that if he confessed to an affair she would tell him to leave. Would he have gone to see Kim to end the affair immediately or would he have waited until his trip with her the next week. I think it would have been a little bit harder for Lina to come to terms with the affair and forgive Phil since the affair was still ongoing and not something that Phil had ended of his own accord. Would he have ever told Lina that Kim intentionally came to his firm to seduce him and destroy his marriage? I had a hard time coming to terms that he didn’t appear to feel any regret or guilt during the affair especially when he was home with Lina, the love of his life.. ( the scene where he had just gotten home from his trip in the beginning of WPF and he was so cool to Lina) I know we didn’t see any of the actual affair in real time ( which is good) but I got the impression that he was in “poor me” mode during the affair that he didn’t think too much about it until the affair came to light. Maybe Lina should have said “ I will leave and you can take care of the kids”. Good luck with that buddy.
Deb. Phil wouldn’t have made a special trip to end the affair. Because Kim wasn’t special. He would of been working on Lina and trying to get his life back. During their reconnection in the first chapter of WPF the affair was ongoing and that text and tie confirmed it. Lina stayed up to try and get their relationship back on track. Also, Lina and Phil were cool to each other. Lina was confiding in Nick and Phil had his physical relationship with Kim in a neat little box separate from his family.
My impression of Phil’s character would never have a poor me moment. Now a selfish moment absolutely.
Hi Deb and welcome!
If Phil had confessed after being confronted by Lina, I have always thought that Lina wouldn’t have kicked him out. She was already suspecting something before he broke it off with Kim and my thought is that she would have kept him in the house. She already had strong suspicions he was cheating like changing his phone password. She was willing in my mind to “not know”.
But seems I was wrong because Laura says Lina would have kicked him out. If that happened I don’t think he would have thought about breaking it off with Kim immediately or the following week, but not because he cared about continuing the affair. He would have ignored her. I think his only concern would have been to keep Lina and his family. After all, he never never wanted to lose his wife. Heck, he was willing to sleep with Lina and profess his love to her during Christmas even while believing at the time she was or had been with Nick.
Yes, I think Laura said in the past it would have been harder to forgive the affair if she had caught him in the middle of it. I don’t think he would have told Lina that Kim came to his firm to seduce him because that would be admitting that he was easy pray for Kim and he was a fool. He doesn’t want to look a fool in her eyes.
Sadly, during the affair he was not doing a lot of thinking or self reflecting so there wasn’t room for a lot of guilt until after he came out of the fog.
I have often wondered what the first conversation between Adele and Phil was like after she found out about the affair. Did she call him or text him to give him a piece of her mind? Adele was hurt personally, hurt for her sister, and very very angry with Phil.
In the scene Lina finds out about Kim and the running group, she leaves the house and tells Phil to leave her alone. What did Phil say to Adele after Lina left, did he give Adele the details about why Lina left?
Holley — what you say is true — Lina was willing to “not know”, so Deb’s question was basically taking Lina out of character, so I suppose I was answering for the Lina who would confront Phil in the moment — the Lina of today, but certainly not the one we met in WPF. And yes, I agree Phil wouldn’t even think about running to Kim to break it off. She wouldn’t even be on his mind except for the role she played in jeopardizing his marriage. And Phil always took full responsibility for having the affair so he would never blame Kim for his role.
I think Adele would confront Phil and tell him what was on her mind. There would me no mincing of words or forgiveness. She was too disappointment in him. Time was the only thing that could heal their relationship.
And no he wouldn’t give Adele details. He would just say they had a fight and he was worried about Lina.
Hi Holley….I don’t think Phil was worried about being caught. His secretary and coworkers were loyal to him. When the affair was heated I believe Kim was the only associate that traveled with him. Also. Phil would of been professional during working hours in New York as well. Lina didn’t know anyone in the running group, if they had he sure wouldn’t of left with her.
I also think (my opinion only) that Katie was the child most like Phil in academics, personality and stubbornness. I think Katie was more disappointed than anything. Remember her saying to Phil when they told the kids about the affair, that their family was now like everyone else. That Alice was right that are no monogamous relationships. She liked the fact that Phil was no longer perfect and therefore he couldn’t hold her or any of them to that standard anymore. I also think a lot of her bond with Liam was because of Matt and his illegitimacy. She wanted to make sure her dad was a good dad to Liam and that felt loved.
Laura I don’t think we ever knew you cried while writing the shower scene. I remember you have a rough time getting through the picture scene. It brought tears to my eyes as the reader. Remember me wondering if Phil would have followed Lina and heard here breaking down? I think he might of and I say that because he disregarded her wishes in SN over the shirt and followed her.
Another pivotal scene for me was the one with Megan after she met Kim. When he came down the stairs and told Lina that she didn’t say anything to him that he didn’t deserve. I remember thinking this kids opinion hurt him the worse. Because he had never not been nothing but perfect in her eyes.
I don’t think he would have followed her in the WPF shower scene. He had just broken her heart and there was nothing he could say. In fact, his presence would have most likely brought on more pain. In SN he said something stupid and he knew it. He wanted to continue apologizing.
Where did everyone go?!?!?!
I was in New York City for for a few days watching my daughter’s dog and expected to have lots of posts to catch up on. Instead everyone has disappeared!
Hope you are all somewhere warm! It is so cold on the East Coast right now!
I am still checking the blog daily🙋🏻♀️, waiting for ESRA and every one~to post.
ps, I have been reading Whitney, My Love inconsistently, don’t know why😮💨, normally I could finish a book overnight but this time, I got distracted constantly and had to find a coffee shop each day for a special 1-2 hour reading session😮💨 of it. In the meantime, I finished the books Janet recommended😂, one of the distractions.
Ugh — sorry you aren’t enjoying Whitney My Love! Don’t torture yourself.
Did you like the novel Janet suggested? I couldn’t get past the writing style — the author doesn’t write in paragraphs enough for me. She writes four sentences in a row on separate lines — it happens way too often for it not to be a distraction. Sigh
Oh no! I didn’t notice this at all. I thought it was so good but I generally love YA/NA. What is wrong with me?? Heard it from a Love Song was really good but I loved The Girl He Used to Know more. I remember staying up late into the night to finish that one but Love Song took me 3 days to finish. Still, Graves is one of the few authors I will always one click.
Berenice, I understand about Judith. She was my favorite too in the 90s like every other girl but I tried rereading her books 10 years ago and they didn’t conjure up the same feels. Did you dislike Interferenfes duet too?
Janet,
I refreshed the page after posting and found your new reply!
My thoughts about the series are below😌.
I read the duet…but the first book I started skimming at 60%. Way to much detail for me. I like a little back brief on the couples history. I don’t like a lot of flashbacks either. The first book was their history from 12 to 18 and it was to much for me. The second book I also skimmed but was more interesting for me because it was present and his redemption. However, it could have been wrapped up in about 270 pages.
OK Tracie. I agree with you regarding the length and the second book kinda bored me but still gave 5 stars for writing. I was into all the ow drama in the first and found the hero cute. Thanks for reading.
Haha~actually I am still not sure if I like it or not, as I haven’t finished it yet😂, not even half of it😮💨.
I got distracted more probably because I received a new task from the supervisor, preparing a new bibliography for her new research project. I am multitasking unproductively and “mood-swinging” all the time because of that😮💨. Janet’s book and the sequence were an easy distraction for me to escape both😂.
Speaking of Janet’s recommendation, I am not sure of the plot and the H… and h!. The writing was kinda forgettable and unimpressive but not bad (sorry Janet, don’t be mad🥺). When the writing is like that, I tend to just push for the plot, skimming what happened and reaching for the ending! So I would say that H&h’s relationship in the books was both “well developed” and unsatisfactory. All the conflicts and dramas are more or less mechanic or OTT even. H’s mother abandonment issue or aligned father-son fate/mistake or h’s idea of relationship and her life choice……I feel unsatisfied😮💨. One of the biggest flaw probably is writer’s depiction of a supposed grand-scheming level determined H. The idea of it is kinda “hot” that he had this whole plan to have a throughout “play” for a “second chance”. It would be interesting to have a final break-down of counter act from h. Instead, we get a whole series of counter acts from h and I basically lost focus. Writer definitely needs to present a more compact/snappy narrative pacing. The pacing is frustrating!
All the events are like a series of flow on the surface without depth.
This is her debut series so she probably had a not bad plot idea but her rendering was not good enough to catch up what she wanted to present.🤔
Lol. I was not on meds reading the duet so it must be my problem. Ahaha. I thought she was fantastic portraying kids growing up in Chesapeake Bay with ott emotions only teenagers can display. Of course I’m not mad! We exchange book recs here and we all have diff opinions which is what I most like about Laura’s blog. Tracie calls me Salt because I was always criticizing Phil but honestly Nick is just a better man all around in my universe. Have you read any good cheating novels lately that hasn’t been discussed here? I would appreciate any recs. Thx!
Hi gang!
Happy New Year! I don’t wanna get involved in Phil drama again when I’ve finally settled things with him in my head so I’ll let the new crew go at it. 🤣Meanwhile, I have a book rec for Tracie and Laura and others who like ow drama and excellent, excellent writing. Harlow Cole’s Interferences duet. I absolutely adored it! She’s a new find for me and really got me out of my romance book hump. Her writing is almost as good as our Laura’s and she’s from the DC area. It’s NA genre but the second book is all about his redemption and we all know how much Tracie loved Phil’s. The MC is an alpha through and through. Please read it and let me know your thoughts!
Tracie, I sent you an email via GR but I don’t think it was sent. Do you have 2 accounts? Much love!
Tracie, it’s not hard at all. It’ll be easy like our fb group K set up. Just go on and accept my friend request and I’ll take you from there. It’s where M, K, and I chat. None of us are all that active but when we find a good book, we comment there. Meanwhile get the Interferences through KU, she is a damn good writer.
Ok Tracie, I will send you another one. I think I requested to Dawn.
Laura, what have you been reading? non romance recs are welcome. I started Heard It in a Love Song by Tracey Garvis Graves today. So far so good.
I’m reading Golden Girl by Elin Hilderbrand — Good so far — about 25 percent in. Have you read her?
Heard it in a Love Song looks good — let me know.
I DNF 28 Summers bc of the couple. I get depressed with the star crossed lovers theme so I read the ending and never went back.
Will let you know about Love Song.
I think sometimes reader try to be too realistic about Phil and fling but realistically speaking we are not talking about a man who thought how dull his life had become and saw a beautiful woman he could have fun with. He wouldn’t have been in love with Lina if that was the case and lina reconnecting wouldn’t have made a much difference.
Kim was an ace attorney she was sure of herself and she was ready to destroy a family. By barriers I think Esra doesn’t mean physical barriers but there has to be a certain thing going on that alerted her to the fact that he wasn’t going to be her usual lapdog. So she got pregnant. Cold calculation or not she had showed that she didn’t want to be a mother and getting pregnant at the peak of her career was not her priority but she did because she wanted Phil. She would have thought who wouldn’t leave their wife for a woman like her since she was in the same league as Phil.
I am judging Phil from his inner thoughts because Lina was hurt and judging Phil affair from her point of view doesn’t give us much clarity because she wouldn’t have been able to see some reason we as a person/readers could see and understand, when she accuse Phil canceling their spring break vacation to go their with Kim he told her that wasn’t true.
Phil has never used the word affair in his inner thoughts. Meaning for him it was just a fling nothing more than that. To be clear by this I don’t mean that he ordered her to strip and she stripped… What I meant is that realistically speaking Kim was not that begging/crying type even when she had this sick infatuation she would have been able to see that Phil had drawn a line he would never cross until she takes the matter in her own hands.
So taking a picture (with Lina in the background where they both seemed happy) just because she could revisit the happy moments of her time seem really far fetch and unreasonable. She must have felt embarrassed by Phil rejection but she let it go because she didn’t wanted to show her cards that early.
She was in it for a long haul and I m sure she would have put things like emotional and intimate connections in the back of her mind thinking she would have him where she wanted him in no time.
Phil had rejected her very harshly in SN but she acted like she wasn’t really bothered by it. So I don’t think that Phil keeping a certain space during a time when he was having sex with her would have made a much difference.
Sorry but it is too funny and unrealistic.😂😂😂
She agreed to the affair even when he told her he wouldn’t leave Lina.
She would have agree to anything if it meant getting Phil into her bed. So saying she wouldn’t have the affair…. Emmm no I don’t think so.
I am saying that she had an infatuation that must be realized. So she would definitely conduct the affair/sleep with Phil(I never said she wouldn’t). And I am saying that if she think with her right mind, she would clearly know it’s a bad investment and stopped. As you can see, in SN, she was still infatuated with Phil for quite some time till she finally realized it’s not working.
And we discussed this before, she decided that Phil said in the beginning of the affair that he was not going to leave his wife. She agreed as well because I think she probably thought that this was not the first man to say such thing but later they all gave in emotionally. So in this case, i feel that she was still not thinking with her brain but her infatuation.
Oh, i got it.
I wrote this one sentence about if she could know that far.
This is more a rhetorical say.
What I mean is she couldn’t see that far after. Plus her infatuation, she just operated herself based on the moment and each context she was in that was also in line with the story timeline. For example, using the example you pointed out, when she got the words from Phil that he was just fucking her and not going to leave Lina, she accepted but was thinking it’s flexible and workable. Because when she made that decision, the context was she met this man she “loved” and agreed to have affair with her. She didn’t really know anything about this man but she got a lot of data about other men (no other men could resist her). So she made the decision to proceed based on her experience and her sick infatuation.
So that’s what I am talking about. Her judgement was not omniscient she couldn’t know that far down the road that it’s two wasted year.
It was a sub argument to answer ESRA that because she was just a character not us readers so she could have all the figured out . So it’s not realistic to say that she was conspiring when she took the photo of Phil inSB. It’s more like another sick infatuation moment
We thought she took the photo before waking Phil up for the blow job.
That’s kinda what I am talking about. I mean she was an ace lawyer so she, from time to time, had sober moments that know this was not going to work. So like Laura said, she was desperate. Desperate, from what I see, meant a emotion investment(sick infatuation) and some “intelligent” calculations. That’s why I am saying that she didn’t let her mind working fully because she had infatuation. So she schemed plans that always backfired. Being reckless and sick infatuated made her do things that out of her cold character. Like zaincruise said that she was degrading herself. I would say not just herself but also her intelligence. See what she had done when she asked for Liam visitation? She didn’t make Phil and Lina so many angsty troubles and tortured them “effortlessly” and that was just her casual villainous move😮💨when she did not have any infatuation to him( well, she was back to the mode to only worship herself, ewww)
And talking about Phil’s inner thoughts. I mean I like that you always come back to his inner thoughts for interpretation. But Phil was also a POV like Lina’s self pity party hit me hard but Laura told me several times that Lina was only thinking what she saw and thought. So fling or affair, Phil already said out loud that he was fucking her and it’s a fling multiple times. He barely used affair in WPF as well, even in Lina’s POV.
Also, because the original Tracie question was about what Kim thought…… So the argument was more about Kim’s thought. Affair didn’t work as well as what Kim originally thought so she got pregnant. Or even she sent photos to Lina for a “get even” after being slapped was sequential as in behaviors/actions. We all know what she has done, we just trying to explore her thoughts?? Isn’t what we were doing?🧐🧐
I am not sure🤔. This would be too dramatic and not realistic.
I agree wth “ill-intention” as the overall vibe of Kim&Phil’s fling is sick and unhealthy. So everything she had done in the past with him entailed this doomy atmosphere luring from behind for an attack.
Kim took so many photos of him, those she sent Lina probably were chosen from the collection that she, after being slapped, thought could enrage Lina the most in order to make Lina break up with Phil. and I would say normal people rarely took that many photos of their lovers(they would do some loving moments like Lina took the one Phil was shaving). Kim’s behaviour was downright sick infatuation. She had this idea of wanting to own him. Also, when she took the photo with Lina’s picture in the background, I mean Phil sleeping on his side (maybe to the centre a little bit), using a smartphone to capture him sleeping, it was unlikely to not include night table in.🤔 She probably was “thrilled” that she was allowed to finally enter his space and got aroused ready for a play:her giving blowjob and naturally she expected later him fucking her. She was clingy all the way yet trying to play “cool” and it’s just Phil being too blind to notice her unnatural sick obsession.😮💨
She broke down Phil’s wall meaning they started the affair?? Phil was equally active in texting for making arrangements. Tbh, he cannot just went to her directly for sex arrangement during office hours. That would be utterly unrealistic. She was an associate probably in associates office(associates usually share office or some firms arrange separated office for the senior ones). It would be too obvious and not discreet. Texting means nothing but arrangement in my opinion. There’s simply no other way.
I remembered she texted minutes before Lina reaching out to reconnect stating “Monday is too far away.” it sounded all “normal” because Phil, even he confessed to Lina that his interest waned after SB, was not alarmed or annoyed by the text and was willing to see if there’s a chance to meet her during the weekend. Laura confirmed that if Lina did not reconnect with Phil, Phil would probably meet Kim during that weekend if he could figure out a way. I mean this was all grey and complicated.
If we don’t see Kim’s development as a whole because as reader we got the privilege to judge from hindsight and out of timeline, Laura said she had a general idea of each of them but when she wrote each scene, those characters would behave on their own(them running and flowing thru her typing fingers).
If we just view it as two persons having an affair, then what she did was all in line with cheaters would do (tbh most cheaters are not some innocent lovers driven by love, most of them were following lust and egos). Kim and Phil were persons living in the timeline scene after scene. They behaved according to their personality and the “current” context they were in. They cannot see past those to be conspiratorially omniscient🤔🤔
If Kim could know what happened that far after and have everything prepared, she would not even have affair with Phil. Because she gained nothing but two wasted years. There’s one question asking Laura if Kim regret the whole thing, Laura said no because Kim doesn’t look back , what’s done is done. So we could tell that she was not omniscient so she got bad investment. of course she had plans to seduce Phil but she had no idea how things would really play out. She had a lot of presumptions plus her own “drunk” infatuation which lead to her own destruction. She was not a kind person so she had no moral baggage to not attack Lina. She was being ruthlessly resourceful when sending photos to Lina. Tbh, a lot of women now were more or less like this. When being pointed out, they simply say they are not saints😮💨. Sending affair evidence to wife is now the number one thing for OW to do. I have a lot of first hand or second-hand experience about this. A lot of OWs, in this case, were a lot less intelligent than Kim but chose the same way of attack. I must confess when I read this in WPF, I was neither surprised or feel too hurt by Kim’s choice of attack(the photo content for me is more vital). The way of attack was lame(a lot of people used) but “effective”(Phil got kicked out).
So it’s simply unrealistic to see it as a months-planning attack mastered by her intelligence. If she planned weeks for this shots and to do it only for this attack, then she would be too lame and cheesy like MC in lifetime. 😮💨The more realistic view is a sick infatuated woman loved taking odd-hour photos of her married fling partner(her sick way of feeling possessive), later used it for a quick retaliation. Two birds with one stone: get even with the humiliation and got them separated.
There’re sober moments in Kim during the fling and there’re less “sober” moment in that period. When I say less sober, I was saying her sick infatuation compromised her judgment. If she was as “sober” as when she emailed Phil one year later for that Liam visitation (in that scene, she was soberly calculated, reaching the full potential of her villainous intelligence to be a villain), she would give up the relationship probably one month after the affair started, thinking it was a “bad investment”. She was a Columbia Law graduate, the first in class and a “killer” in office(I assumed) not a MC in lifetime🤔.
Speaking of Lina’s interior design taste that might display in SB, It is validated good but as some upper society snobs could get snarky against Picasso, I have no doubt that when Kim walked in SB, she would be dismissive toward Lina’s taste/decor. That’s just some entitled woman would do, maybe out of defensiveness or just being really dismissive of Lina’s style.😂
ESRA, do you remember the editor in Unsticky?? Kiki?
Kim is more like her. They were morally compromised but shrewd. Kiki was nice to Graciee later because Graciee was becoming more her league than before which was a strayed dog, abusing her at work place. But Kiki’s ephemeral warmth towards Graciee was also true. Kiki’s own choice of relationship was also deeply immoral, marrying a pig as a social ladder. I have no doubt that she slept with married men in the past and destroyed some families in the past. But they are who the are. Realistic and multidimensional. I found that my peers (uni friends and colleagues) liked to watch this kind of women and found them more entertaining than others😮💨. They don’t want to meet them in real life but appreciate them as some post-modern twisted art work. I, on the other hand, connected fictions to real life. I like Lina and wanted to meet a Lina in real life.😮💨
Girls I keep thinking about what I said about Kim knowing at SB that Phil was not leaving his wife based on Phils reaction when they got there…
I wondered what she thought looking at Lina’s style through the decor in her home? Did Kim in her narcissistic way of thinking, jump for joy that he brought her to his family vacation home? Could the picture taken at SB be the one that was taken with malicious intent because Phil wouldn’t sleep in the same room with her? What do you think was going through Kim’s mind that morning at SB when Phil pushed her off of him?
I was just wondering if any of you had thought these same questions in you own mind. I have plenty of times.
You are right Tracie, I remember I had same discussion with Berenice about the pics. Although I knew some of them were candid shot but the pic taken at the SB house was taken with ill intention because she made sure that Lina pic was in the background. I think she had taken that pic because she wanted to hurt Lina and break them up.
Most importantly she also wanted to test the waters. She sneaked in Phil room and took the pic and then she wanted to caught him off guard by giving him a blow job. But when he got angry 😡 at her she came to the realization how unimportant she was was in his life. And as a result became more clingy.
I think during the fling in early stages he was keeping a barrier between them as Laura said she broke down his walls and I am assuming that’s when the text started. And tbh she would have thought in her egotistical way then that she finally had him where she wanted because she had no clue how much Phil loves Lina since he was sleeping with her. SB house scene burst her bubble 🗯 LOL 😂
And sorry I digress but I personally think that Lina reconnecting had something to do with Kim message. She never suspected what was happening until the text. I know she could never thought that of Phil but I think it also shows how much distance she was from him.
Hi Tracie,
This one is tough because I have not spent a lot of time thinking about Kim’s point of view but I think several things happened. She had tried not to think about Lina a lot because that would be acknowledging fact Phil was sleeping with another woman. I think her focus was on winning Phil over so not thinking about Lina made that easier.
When she walked in their home, I believe she felt like she and Phil really had a shot since he brought her to SB then she walked around the house. I think envy then set in that Lina had Phil and the family wanted. I don’t believe Kim ever respected Lina so she would have looked down Lina’s style and thought it was not as modern as hers. She thought her taste was better and prettier just like she was.
The picture in the bedroom I m not so sure had malicious intent. I think she really was enamored with Phil and thought awww look at him sleeping. She probably wanted that picture to be something for herself later but not to necessarily to hurt Lina.
Phil not sleeping with Kim hurt Kim and I think she took the rejection at that time to mean he just doesn’t want to do it in his home not that he may be getting over me. She is a narcissist after all.
My question Tracie is why do you think Laura agreed to keep the details of the affair out of SN after your many requests/pleas. Laura can hold her own but you’re pretty convincing yourself😉.
Holley!
I agree with your answer regarding Kim and SB!
I think Laura said many times that she believes that it’s about surviving/moving past/coping with the consequence and she thought detail is not relevant. You guys were tenacious about having all the details in the past discussions, I could tell😌. So right now, I believed this was more Laura’s “philosophy” of marriage and moving on. She was very determined to what she believed!!🤔
Hi Bernice,
Yes, Laura wrote the book she wanted 🙂.
I used to hate books involving infidelity but after SN and WPF I expanded my book collection. Some cheating books are about redemption but have ton of details about the affair. Am always like why torture myself with these details and when it’s too much I skip forward 😒.
Hi Holley…I didn’t want the details of the affair because as adults we know the mechanics of an affair. I didn’t need to know how and when Phil was banging Kim. What I needed to know is how this couple was going to cope and hold onto their love and life after the affair. The way Laura wrote their characters another ending wouldn’t have been feasible they were meant for each other period. I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned this before, but just a few chapters into WPF, I went to the Epilogue to ensure Lina ended up with Phil and not Nick or I wouldn’t have been able to finish the book. Laura had me convinced a few chapters in that there was no way they wouldn’t be together. I didn’t want the details of how he wronged Lina, I wanted to see the fight of a good man righting that wrong. Which Phil accomplished in spades!
Loved your comments girls. I always imagined Kim thinking when she stepped into the foyer of the house.. “Nice but after the divorce I want something bigger.” She also thought him pushing her off of him in the bedroom was just a minor setback. I think Phil would of also dismissed her. Telling her he needed to shower and he would meet her downstairs. Close the door on the way out.
You read the epilogue!?!??!?! I don’t remember hearing this before! That’s cheating, Tracie!
Only in WPF. I couldn’t stand it Laura….by the time I hit like Chapter 6…I had to know….I was already team Phil….As a kid I always wanted to bet on a football game with my dad at halftime….What can I say😩
LOL — I get it. Sometimes I do that with movies. It becomes too intense and knowing the outcome lets me enjoy it.
Hi Tracie,
I totally get it!
I bought WPF but the Lina shower scene was very hard. I wasn’t sure I could finish the book. I decided to stop reading it. I bought SN, read it and then finished WPF.
I ve read both like 10 times each now. Interesting I always skip the shower scene after Lina finds out about affair, sad for Lina and I skip where Phil talks about his son after Liam’s birth after Lina told him she hated him. I understand he needed to say what he said I just didn’t like reading about it.
I am read SN again, lol.
I remember sobbing while I wrote the shower scene — ugh.
And I agree — Phil needed to say what he did about Liam, but it was hard to take.
Holley me too! When I reread WPF I read the shower scene because it is one of the scenes that really pull my emotions, but I almost get mad over him telling her he regrets how Liam was conceived, but not Liam. Then Alice soothes me by telling Lina…”how could he regret his own son.” He couldn’t, but I could feel Lina feeling like she was on the outside looking into Phil’s life. For the first time, they weren’t a team it wasn’t a child they conceived together. That was in Chapter 44 of WPF, I believe. That’s why Chapter 47 is one of my absolute favorite. Phil lays his heart on the table in that chapter.
After reading all of your comments I want to reread WPS and SN again!!! Don’t get me wrong
I will feel their pain but I will also feel their strong love 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 (swoon) 😂
I have to clear up something. The Thursday (last time Phil slept with Kim) was the Thursday before the Friday where him and Lina reconnected. SB was in April and the affair ended in early May. Another thing we concluded was when Kim sent Phil that message about meeting him on Saturday, after the tie incident, he never answered her, nor did he meet her. Go Lina…Because Lina and Phil had sexual that whole weekend. I can’t even imagine Kim’s desperation when he ended it knowing she was pregnant. It was probably like chasing boogers in the night..she didn’t know which way to turn.
Phil ended it on that Monday after him and Lina reconnected. I’m sorry you guys are having to decipher some of these comments, but I’m typing in a box the widthof a toothpick. Lol
Yeah! Sexual healing, I would go with that definitely🧡!!
I meant to say Phil was happily infatuated with having sex with Lina😂. He was in drought(lack of meaningful sexual activities) for soooo long😮💨
Yes,Tracie🧡
I know!!😊
I remembered that you said something in the past post: Phil was lost in his refound sexual and emotional connection with Lina during that weekend, infatuated himself happily and ignored Kim completely.🧡
Once Lina reached out, the fling was dead immediately❤️
I remembered that I was sooo impressed while reading your analysis that within minutes(before Lina said I miss you and after that), Phil changed “drastically”, the affair was a history.😌😌
Don’t worry, Tracie. We learned all past conversations by heart🧡
Tracie Love your answers as always. I love reading your comments. I have been reading them from March 2021.
Thank God you can finally access the blog.
❤️
Berenice, I totally agree with what you said.
And I loved Vaughn too I think I had read it after fifty shades series in 2013 so you can imagine what a fresh breath of air it was. 😍😍😍
I loved Whitney my love can’t wait for your thoughts on that one.
LOL,
I know you are super busy!!But if you have time, you could listen to Sarra Maning’s interview with “sentimental garbage”(podcast)
She was “snarky” towards fifty-shades!!😂😂
I personally was auto-piloting between fanfics and original romance for years. so when it first published, I just thought this writer was testing water to promote herself from fanfic writing to original romance as a proper career. I was already rolling the eyes because how could it do better? In the end, it was just a fanfic of Twilight in disguise. The original book: Twilight is a uber-cliche to begin with😮💨
But it took off right away and got the film adaption opportunity😶🌫️
Still, I feel that the adaptation helped it gain disproportionate popularity for sure!!🤔🤔
Well Kim and Phil had lots of emotionless quickies and when I say emotionless I mean
in large part, guys could F..K anything, I said anything at all. For most guys it doesn’t have to do with love, affection or anything like that. With guys it is very possible you can make love with the person you love and have sex with the person you don’t love. Women are very emotional being and they have to feel attached for them to enjoy or have sex with the person.
Men can compartmentalize and can see sex as an act of desire without emotional connection.
I think Lina and Phil had a very adventurous relationship in the bedroom and their chemistry was off the charts. They did slow and they did fast. (fanning myself) so what I want to say is that sex with Kim was a downgrade (he went from the chocolate he was craving to the candy which was dangling in front of him. He felt desired by Kim which numb his rejection from Lina.) in other cheating stories I have read men turn from simple husband to Porn star instantly. (eye rolling alert ⚠) 😂 😂 😂
Yeah!!!
that book, If You Only Knew, one sister’s husband was like “Gosh, the sex with her(OW)”, he was explaining to wife that OW allowed him to have dirty sex no less than Porn!!
And , Alice said in one scene which was edited out:I am sure you two have explosive sex in bedroom all the time, the chemistry is sooo obvious and never stopped sizzling. I never saw any couple’s chart being more in tune than you two; you two are like BUNNIES and the attraction was obvious, always simmering under the surface for all to see😂😂
It’s from our wisest Alice😊I believed it!!
But I do want to stress that there’s this one situation in between (between Phil and “Porn stars”). I feel that some cheating Heroes try new things with OW because yes they needed a break from the marriage (problems in marriage and life) and new thing is new excitement, a distraction for a while. Like The Desperate Wife or The Perfect Marriage even The Adultery Club, husbands took full responsibility, did not belittle or over exaggerate their relationship with OWs. They just lost sight of their wives for a while. It’s not swoon worthy but I think it’s understandable and forgivable in real life.
It does not mean they think wife is dull, more like life was dull. In totality, they would say sex with wife is the best emotionally and physically. It’s kinda grey and ugly, human nature as well but it’s kinda understandable. I am sure a lot of women in real life would give a second chance and do live happily every after.🤔
Haha for him I think it was the hanky panky in the office.And Kim also gave him a lots of blow job 😉 😉 😉 but nothing in him doing something new with Kim.
Hi Girls! Tina Phil would of never separated from Lina, nor would Lina have kicked him out. Bet if you have a bet…I would say no he wouldn’t. He would be trying to get his life back just as he was doing in WPF and SN.
Now SB..Phil told us when he stepped into that foyer he saw Lina everywhere. He himself collided his two worlds. As long as he could keep them separated he could let the fog keep Lina from clear view. Him waking up to her giving him a BJ in Lina’s world made him furious not only with her, but I’m sure himself. He could no longer segregate in his mind his fling and his family. Once Lina extended the olive branch he was done with Kim.
Yes he did Berenice. But we concluded in our original discussions that after SB Phil had started to pull away. We also talked about Kim getting a little more clingy . I always wondered if Kim took Phil’s actions at SB as a wake up call that he’s really not leaving his wife. Phil also came home early on Friday from that business trip the night him and Lina reconnected. That’s how we concluded he was pulling away. He could of stayed longer with Kim if he would of wanted to.
I know!! I read all you guys’ conversations many many times!!
It’s just Tina’s question made me uncertain about this detail😳
I could be uncertain of myself very easily😂😂
ESRA,
I think a lot of readers didn’t realise that it is way worse if cheating Heroes actually had a lot of thoughts regarding his affair and OW. When I say “thoughts”, I meant to say cheating heroes thought a lot of what was the nature of the affair he was having, what position this OW took in his life or what feeling he really had for this OW. Even he concluded that in every aspect, this woman was less than his wife, it was still a strong evidence for a”worse than Phil” character. If any cheating heroes had that much of inner thoughts going on, he was basically a “weak” person(Phil’s weak as he said himself but different kind of weak) that couldn’t find another solution. For Phil, yes, he also had a choice but he didn’t have that much “time” allowing him to really calm down. He just “got” the affair done in the whirlwind. Does it make sense??
I hate lines such as “I only slept with her once/twice”(n Heart of the Matter) or”I wrapped up because I had this whole thing figured out: only go bare with you.”(inhale, exhale) or “I didn’t have orgasm or enjoyed much”(in any cheesy cheating YA)
Those lame excuses irritated me!! Just Own it!!!
Haha, Vaughn is definitely not perfect. I just love him being his type of cruel😂😂.
And, I don’t know😮💨😮💨 but I disliked the wife more than the husband in Inhale, Exhale.
It’s kinda related to what you said yesterday about “even the score”(classic words from Diane).
Two aspects,
First, from writing perspective, it seems that readers recent days have very positive response to wife physically slept with OM during separation or under more dubious condition. So a lot of writers wrote that as a pure “market” decision, which I hate.
Secondly, It seems that writers of cheating books think that Heroines had to cross the physical line to get even with “something”, having a heartfelt moment with OM before reconciling with husband. It doesn’t make sense in my mind.Using Inhale, Exhale as an example, I felt that this heroine basically had a full blown affair with brother-in-law to make herself feeling good. It was not just because of the affair, it went on long before the affair. It made me want to puke(ewww). I am not unreasonable double standard. The Adultery Club gave us a much more reasonable context and rationale for a comforting sexual relationship between Heroine and OM after Heroine separated from husband. But Inhale, Exhale and some other cheating books such as The Mill house made heroine a needy, immature, no better than cheating husband character, seeking emotional attachment and physical comfort the minute after their marriage was in trouble. Lina, comparing to them, was sooo mature and she knew herself well, her identity in the marriage and as an individual (shaking but still firm) and she had the ability to do self-reflection after being cheated. Heroine being responsible to herself is what I regard the most in a book. Even flawed and jaded Graciee could do that!!😮💨😮💨
Haha Berenice that is a exactly what I wanted to say. He was quite secure in the knowledge that his Lina was home and would always be his. ( In inhale and exhale OK, he was angry at the wife but not taking care of your own daughter who loves you while you play daddy with other woman’s child was very bitter pill for me to swallow.) I agree! he was still doing it but not as much as during those two months remember I had also thought the same thing.
We all swoon at him (Phil) while you would look at him with your eye brow raised and saying ‘I am not going to let you off the hook that easily.’
But don’t worry when you will be swooning at Vaughn I will act in same manner. 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Happy reading Berenice! ❤️ Let’s see how you will react 😉
Phil was not innocent and he knowingly continued the affair to make himself feel “okay” but the back thought during this whole time was his Lina was home and his. (still ugly and selfish but much better than being lame😮💨) By being lame cheater, I was referring to the cheater in inhale, exhale. Omg, that cheater even had this whole inner thought of why he would use condom to distinguish his feeling for OW and his love to his wife…..this kind of thought-out/thought-thru made him lame and ridiculous.😮💨😮💨
Talking about his sexual activities with Kim. Since I was probably the most desensitised reader with regard to talk about it😂, I would say, it happened daily for the first two months. After SB, it was probably down to two or three times a week. Just thinking realistically, with book evidence, he was still planning sex date with her via texts before Lina reconnected with him minutes after.
Also, Tracie said that the last time he slept with her was that Thursday, not he only slept with her that Thursday after SB.
Tracie, Katie, Janet and Laura had lengthy conversation regarding that. Tracie, Janet and Katie and others knew that Phil&Kim were still having sex but were curious if they had sex on this “final” business trip
so they asked Laura if he had sex with Kim right before he went back home, reconnected with Lina and had sex with Lina. It made sense because of being realistic. It certainly made him “PIG” but was consistent with the plot and his personality. Remember how cold he was before Lina reached out??😮💨😮💨
Hi Tina,
Emmm, I totally agree with ESRA and Zaincruise. Phil and Lina are not that kind of couple that would do couple therapy or “taking a break”. Kinda weird😳
It all happened in a whirlwind. It’s not chronicled as they fought and their love were cooling down. Their love is quite unconventional and one of kind. Even during the affair, Phil was immensely in love with Lina. Fling just happened when he was dealing his “problem”. IF Phil and Lina had time to sit down and decide a break from each other, they definitely would reconnect immediately.
And he was still functioning in his part of the affair after SB. So he still texted Kim and fucked her from time to time. Only sleeping with her on that Thursday is tooo illogic and unrealistic. To repeat, this is not an unrealistic romance story.😊
Also, Laura explained before, men sometimes, no matter how ace they are in work, could be very blind to women’s scheme(women like Kim).
No, I don’t think so because as far as I am concerned I think he can’t function without Lina by his side. firstly he would never let Lina out of his sight and secondly, he would have been too worried about what she was doing and other men hitting on Lina, LOL.
Laura had said once the affair was exposed he realized he could lose Lina. So, I don’t think he would have started anything with Kim.
Hello girls, We have a question if you can answer it please do and forgive us if it seems stupid.
but what we wanted to know is that if Lina&Phil had decided to take a break because of all the fights that were happening between them because of Katie’s situation and then Kim had tried to seduce Phil would he have cheated then?
and please can you tell us what did he meant when he said he couldn’t look at Kim without thinking about Lina after the SB…did he stop texting her. and only had sex with her on Thursday as Tracie said in the previous post.
sorry if we are being rude with something you have already answered but our friends have placed a bet on it and now we can’t wait to see who is right and who is wrong!
And Laura please don’t think about haters, think about us who love your writing. Alice was my favorite character, for her Phil was like a son she never had, and the way Phil would fix her house let me know how much he loves her also.
I second that Esra.
tbh Tina his fling with Kim was more of a reckless decision on his part. It wasn’t that well-thought-out plan. He never thought too much about his rendezvous with Kim. He was an ace attorney so reading and observing people was a part of his job and in Kim situation, the writing was on the wall but he was still unable to get a hint of her dirty tricks until he became known to fact that she wanted to trap him long before he met her. Means! He didn’t think too much about Kim during and after the affair. That’s why she was a means to escape only. He was surprised and shocked over his actions which also exposed his state of mind at the time.
Phil and Lina weren’t a “taking a break” kind of couple. No way would they have ever decided to step apart w/out the Kim aspect.
And SB was the beginning of the end of Phil and Kim. The escape Kim offered deteriorated because at the Steamboat home Phil’s world crashed together. The moment Kim entered his world, the fog began to lift. Kim was no longer separate from his life with Lina.
If my memory serves me right I think Colleen hover and Tarryn fisher had written a novel called Never Never where both Hero and Heroine had cheated with other people many times and had broken up but since they were soul mates some mysterious things had started to happen to them! I read it too long ago so I don’t remember much but it had made me crack up so bad. I love that Lina&Phil connection was more original and deeper.
Thank you so much, Tracie, …My studies are going really well(although those ‘dates’ and ‘acts’ drive me crazy sometimes) and I always check the blog to see what you girls are discussing, love you all.
Berenice, you should have definitely picked chocolate gateau…LOL
Omg, Zaincruise…
This is a completely different thing but I have to say…My neighbourhood patisserie reopened today after owner’s holiday vacation. I went there for something sweet. Between cappuccino cheesecake and chocolate gateau, I chose cappuccino cheesecake. Your mention of chocolate cake made me regret😮💨😮💨
Now I want chocolate gateau😂😂
Laura, I totally feel for you! But you can never make everyone happy. People always find faults in everything. You can’t live your life according to the rules they set for you. You have your own voice and your own choices to make. You are not forcing them to buy your books, if they don’t like chocolate they shouldn’t have ordered double layered chocolate cake.
My mom always told me that ‘people only throw shades on what shines’
AND YOU SHINE THROUGH THE CHARACTERS YOU HAVE WRITTEN!
Love you!
Tracie is right! Focus on the people who love you and admire you DOLL! (I love it when Tracie calls you that).
Laura always remember doll…haters are going to hate…but for every negative cynical person hating, you have three of us that love and adore you and appreciate your talent.
Berenice agreed! I remember a writer Danielle Lori is going to publish a book with a cheating husband (I think she is still working on it)and she said she didn’t believe the hatred and negative comments she received for something they haven’t really read it. she said she doesn’t care.
but something tells me I already know what is she going to do.
she is going to make the Heroine cheat too. it’s a new way for the writer to redeem the hero, if they both cheat pysically they are even. LOL
After I received all the hate for WPF and Swimming Naked, I decided I was no longer going to publish my writing. I have always wrote for my own pleasure and if sharing it with others brought such a backlash, I couldn’t see the point. It’s actually upsetting — spending a year nurturing a plot and characters and then have people attack you — personally even. Alice was based on my mother, so attacks on her were the worse to me. But, I think I’ve come around. I just wish I could keep the haters from being able to buy my novels.
Dear Laura,
I truelly believe that being hated by the mob is something you should be proud of. The very vocal group that hates loudly, may it be in politics, literatue or immunization, is so self ratious. There are never grey areas in their world. Therefore, the absolute truth will always be on their side. So, not being part of them and liked by them is a badge of honor 😉
I must say that Alice was absolutely one of my favorites (perhaps because she reminded me of my free spirited mother), and the father, this unrelenting nerd, also a great character!
So, please, for the sake of the rest of us, remember that you bring so much color to our lives. Your novels are captivating and although I read them a few years ago, I keep going back reading them, reflecting on them and the characters became part of my live, like Jane Ayre, Mr Rochester and others.
P.s, pardon my English, this is not my language and I read in English as so many good books are not translated to Hebrew
Thank you! I love how you put that — a badge of honor. You are right!
And I am honored that you keep going back to these characters!
Thanks for posting — made me smile!
🙋🏻♀️If I could explore a little bit what did “grovel” mean to these critics, I would say when those critics want more “grovel”, they were talking about a lot of repetitive actions and lines from Hero with teary eyes while Heroine played hard “game”, which simply means a lot of exhausting post-cheating push&pull. Personally, I think this formula is very lame and banal. and when I say they were disrespecting/being inconsiderate to each book’s context, this is a classic example of it😶🌫️. They preoccupied themselves arrogantly with how things should be when read a new book.
ESRA, speaking of flawed heroes, in this case, when those critics flip-flop on Phil or other flawed Heroes, they usually stress that they accept flawed heroes but don’t see they(Phil) actually grow. I think this is another example that a lot readers simply have a mould in their mind: even how flawed Heroes grow should fit in the existing mould in their mind.😶🌫️😶🌫️(shaking head)
Gosh, I really paid a lot of attention to all the comments on Goodreads after reading WPF&SN for the first time. I not only analysed their contents but also critiquing on why they said that, profiling what kind of readers are they😮💨.
Same goes to women render reality thru their own wishfulness, like they proclaim they would leave after discovering cheating but once happened they chose to forgave or they thought they understand men/or book heroes in their wishful way and got frustration when they were not like that at all. Laura, I completely agree! These “expectation” set people up for disappointment!! I must say it’s kinda like a nature for people to presume over life or books, at least to me. So what I have learned so far is to prepare myself humbly for being challenged or convinced and my cognitive reality would be better😮💨
God! it’s a nightmare! 😱 But then I already knew it…. Just hope everything works out.
I was missing the blog so came back to check and saw a lots of my comments for Phil has disappeared 😭😭😭. But I will be back to defend my Phil.
Don’t be mean to him. LOL 😂
Mahira and I had this long discussion off the blog on Goodreads about Phil and him feeling the pain and anger he must have felt before the affair and we both agreed that she may have made it numb for him but she didn’t make it go away. That is why I came up with a painkiller simile. Because despite being with her what he truly wanted and desire was Lina, only she could make it all go away. And Berenice as you said that Lina was still on his mind during the affair Mahira and I came up with this logic that Lina had been on his mind but with her, he also had months of rejection pain, and feelings of failure that’s why the SB house made him see the error of his way because they had lots of beautiful memories there and he was able to see the life he and Lina had created together and the fog which was created by his sense of failure and need for escape had started to thin at that point. But since Lina was responsible for the distance she had created she had to take that first step toward Phil. And once Lina touched him with want everything became history. ( Because one moment with Lina was gazillion times better than those four months with Kim).
Tracie!
That’s why I am a little scared to start them. but if they are anything like LINA&PHIL then I won’t have any problem. because give me those two for the rest of my life and I would never read anything gladly.
Tracie! love you … I seriously don’t know why would those readers prefer it that way. (gosh! at this point I am ready to give my left kidney for another book about them) I was soooooooo scared while I was reading SN because zaincruise didn’t give me any spoilers and I was prepared to chuck my kindle on the wall if Phil had played family with Kim (Ewwww) but thank God he didn’t. Laura is hundred percent right about him blocking the pain.
ESRA!!
Oh My!!
Bronze Horseman was heavily discussed by Laura, Tracie and other girls in the blog!!
I read some comments about the series here but not sure if I am ready for the background setting, from Russian revolution to Vietnam war so I just shelved it for another day😮💨
Loved Bronze Horseman! Very flawed H and it’s so long. I think I liked book 2 the best but it was so satisfying to be able to keep reading about his couple!
And how about the phrase “actions speak louder than words”. Phil’s apologies meant nothing to me without action. It is so easy to say the right thing. My grandmother never said I love you, but there was never a doubt in my mind that she loved me.
Another thing I liked about our adorable Gracieee and Vaughn is the element age, how it was constructed thru plot.
I know that in age gap romance, if readers want it “healthier”, then the heroine would simply have an “old soul” and was attracted to an amazing older man. The climax conflict was around how to handle external pressure.
But when dealing with more realistic age gap works, heroines probably must have flaws(past baggages) like Graciee. it had nothing to do with “fetish” or some other psychologic dramas. simply because, when it comes to big age gap (over 20 years), not too many young girls (barely age twenty) would fall in love with 40 plus yr old man (it happens but it’s either “old soul”logic or something more complicated). In Gracie and Vaughn’s case, it’s obvious that Gracie felt lacking and she was passing thru life without any anchors/or fateful crossing (paraphrasing from Sarra Manning).she was lonely without a “spirit shelter”. Vaughn gifted her something that made her world brighter, broader and meaningful as she was crossing him not just flew by like they both did in the past. Ultimately Vaughn filled a void of her, making her feel less lacking. It is very crucial. Her “passing by life” existence caused her loneliness and lacking. Older man came forward offering “guidance”. She, in return, gave him love and warmth. It is not the healthiest relationship but the power dynamic(not healthy but progressing) between these two was soooo on point, fascinating! just like what I could imagine in a more realistic age gap relationship 😊😊
If you go through my shelf you would know the Heroes I have read were all hated by most of the readers because they didn’t fit their versions of romance boyfriend. But I love them.
Berenice, I am going to start Paullina Simons Bronze horseman series I wanted to start them before I read WPS but I was so much sucked into Lina&Phil love story I couldn’t just read anything for quite a while.
Recently a friend told me to give it a go because it had all the angst I crave so much. Have you read it??
What’s your final verdict on that book!!
As far as I am concerned I like my heroes a little more on original and imperfect side…because watching a character learn from the mistake and becoming that person we hoped he’d be makes reading experience truly enjoyable for me.
Lina’s pain and Phil remorse felt real to me. Phil was a character who took all the blame on himself and never pointed out to Lina’s fault which I think created this illusion in readers mind. My poor baby has suffered enough as it is. I like him as he is…. 😉 I wouldn’t change it for anything! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ I don’t want grovel I wanted him to show Lina with his actions what she meant to him… And Boy did he!!
He not only won Lina but also won me over.
Tbh… I don’t have any problem with my phone..nothing can keep me away from the blog.
ohhhh!
unrealistic/fairy tale characters and stories (typo)😂
Also, some readers made me feel that they don’t get reality in their real life. They just expect that, thru some “rosy glasses”, what they comment/demand is what their reality look like. Does it make sense??😮💨
I find too many people literal. Life is not that simple. The world is gray, not black and white. Also, expectations in novels or life set you up for a huge disappointment.
Yes, you make perfect sense. People convince themselves that they are a certain way, but the reality is so different. I know so many women who have forgiven affairs — more than one. These are the same women who would have said that they would never.
I have to say if it is just unrealistic/fairy tale endings, then I would stomach them actually😳, like some vintage HP or Mills&Boons (good plot and characters yet a cheesy endings or predictable plot even).
But some were way worse than that. Not just unrealistic storyline or characters. They were more like weird wishful thinking😂. The one ESRA mentioned, plots and characters are soooo illogic. Nevertheless, people read a lot of books like those.
Also, I do feel that some readers kinda have fixed reactions to each trigger or lack thereof. such as grovel means redeemable, ONS is forgivable, singing cheesy lines of love means true love(including those who insisted Phil needs to “communicate” more) or the more excessive affectionate words the better etc etc. If books don’t have these, then they think they are somehow inadequate😮💨😮💨 Rigid and inconsiderate to book contexts😮💨
I have switched to PC logging for a while! so far so good👌🏻wish the lost post would be restored soon❤️
Yes. Grovel was a common theme by my critics. If Phil had cried and begged, maybe on his knees, he may have been forgiven by readers. And I will say it again — that wouldn’t be Phil. Never. It would never occur to him to do that. He apologized a dozen times. He showed resource. He blamed himself for everything. I think his coldness was off putting to many readers, but Phil’s coldness toward Lina was because he was closing himself to pain. He couldn’t handle her rejection. He just closed down.
Sarah Manning’s characters have flaws. They feel like real people – 100 percent agree on that point. I love English authors — I grew up loving them.
Personally, I don’t like reading or writing characters that say things I can’t imagine a person saying. Having said that, I know many readers just want an escape. They don’t want realistic – they get that in real life. They want a fairytale. Look at Harlequin Christmas movies — I can’t take them but they are incredibly popular.
It’s curious to me that readers who want unrealistic read cheating novels — if Phil groveled more than he did, he wouldn’t be Phil and the story wouldn’t be a WPF. He was who he was.
And as far as the first drafts of WPF, the editor said everyone knows the details of an affair and because the book was written from Lina’s point of view, we (the reader) only knew what Lina knew. We had to judge Phil from Lina’s perspective only.
And no, I’m not alerted when there is a discussion about my books on Goodreads. I’m only alerted when someone asks me a direct question.
I’m sick that we have lost so many comments. I hope I can get them back 🙁
I had to write the message from my PC. It wouldn’t post from my iphone.
I don’t want to be controversial but I have to say that men with that kind of power and resourcefulness are never too approachable or too considerate. And falling in love with them is an arduous arduous work. Their edges could hurt you without the intention to hurt you.
My grandmother once told me humanely that greatness sometimes comes
with enduring agony.That’s why some vintage Books (Harlequin, Mills&Boons) and Vaughn made sense. Well, sensible without the “cheesy” ending, Unsticky’s author commented that Mills&Boons endings usually stood out abruptly(excessively affectionate lines, ewww) and that is tacky!
Anyway, I like Gracieee being very “sober” that she was aware this powerful man was moulding her. Nevertheless, she went along (the place where romance happened and her jaded character befell) . That’s why I don’t like people comparing Gracie&Vaughn to pretty woman. Completely undermining Gracie’s character depth and Vaughn’s masterfulness😮💨. Also Sara Manning passively agreed it was in the same trope with Jane/Rochester!! Haha I knew it!!🎈
Characters do have independence from their creator and their choices has to be fitting to their role because humans don’t pull 180 degree that fast.
And I love analyzing them in my own way. That’s why I came up with Kim having that ill intention regarding Pics.
You wouldn’t believe me but I hate billionaires love stories because they all have these ‘unrealistic formula’I just have to pick one to know what all of these other have in them. That’s why I was really surprised and loved Unsticky, although I was dreading it be like that other billionaire book where a wealthy man turn into unrealistic character and start singing those cheesy lines but thank God Vaughn had that rude originality(which I think all billionaire should have) that made the book so interesting for me. And there banter and arguments were my favorite. I love it sooooo much because they were not that OTT type that makes you roll your eyes.
I got that!!
I was struggling to pinpoint authors like Jewel E Ann without offending them!
It was really difficult to elaborate my feelings after finishing her books! Her books sometimes made me feel shallow and superficial lovey dovey/love-peace/positive thinking. and when I say I don’t feel her love and compassion for her characters, I meant to say that her characters were like being cut out from cardboard lifelessly for her to stage in her confusing plots. Like Laura said and I also believe the same that characters have certain degree of independence from authors, full of life and depth. Sadly, it’s not like that in Jewel E Ann’s books😮💨
Actually the unrealistic formula that authors use make me roll my eyes. Remember that Jewel E Ann book… In the cheating scene he asked the friend ‘tell me what do you want Lila’ and shouted his wife name in the end… LOL 😂 to show how much he loved her… So romantic!! (insert sarcasm) imagine Phil shouting Lina name… 🤣🤣🤣
I want that too!!!I want Nick doing something dramatic in front of Phil and Phil would……wow…🔥
Actually there’s an almost reversal moment in WPF. Very interesting! I believe it was in Chapter 47 when they watched the lacrosse game, Phil was caught off guard that Lina gave him a chaste kiss. Laura said if Phil knew Nick was watching from afar (he was there for Brian), Phil would “tongue down” Lina for sure!!😂
I like both scenarios!!❤️
Thank you for the Gracieee comment!! I am feeling “adorable” because of that😊. and just like you said before! Men are PIGs. Phil was simply fooling around with Kim and using Kim as a painkiller for a while (this happened in real life all the time, men can keep a hook-up at side for years without any emotional attachment). I found that a lot of readers simply hold unrealistic and confusing ideas of men…sigh. But the beauty is Lina as a woman, at first, couldn’t fully understood it as well(it’s more understandable because she is the wife and that is her husband). It made situation full of angst, pain and hurt!!and made the book more captivating❤️
Damn! Now I want to read that book soooo bad…. But wait with Nick (Nooooo) Thank God she didn’t listen to her editor but I do wanted a scene where Nick would grab Lina and kiss her in front of Phil catching her off guard because Lina would never do it own her own…. She is too loving and too caring for these tricks.
But I love jealous Phil.. So I can’t help myself.
Okay one more thing please don’t misunderstand my curiosity because Phil hater or not one thing they couldn’t find fault with was Laura ability to make her readers feels all those emotions.
And I personally think everyone should have access to the magic of her writing and that’s one of the reasons we are talking about a book that was written in 2019.
So originally, Laura wrote a book named “The Affair”(if I remembered correctly). It had a lot of affair details because the main theme was Phil&Lina dealing with affair and surviving it. But the editor suggested to edit out some details and make a “love triangle”(Lina&Phil&Nick, which was actually not really, not a functioning triangle any way. Laura had a reply talked about adding more Nick scenes and subplots). Laura said the editor even wanted Lina to be with Nick in the end(screaming! can you imagine??!😮). Also, Katie and Matt are also a subplot added because of the editorial changes.
So once WPF was published, Laura realized that there’re a lot of things was unanswered because of the changes made under editorial advice. So SN as a sequel was dealing with some part of affair details, giving Lina closure and talk about how family coping with aftermath. I read some comments on goodreads complaining that Laura wrote “unconvincing” affair details and photo explanation to pacify readers. That was untrue!! Those were written long ago in the unpublished book “The Affair”. Some details changed such as they attended wedding not in Portland but the inn in VA which is a suburban of DC region~
The original book, I believe, had more than 100000 words😂
Seriously I also wanted it to be a one month affair but that just me wanting Phil to spend less time with Kim. I can understand if that were the case the hurt and anger wouldn’t seem to be the reason. There had to be a certain kind cheating to make the situation understandable. I just love that I don’t have to wonder like those readers. They really need this blog in their lives. 😍
TRACIE! You are 💯 right and we know that but there had been some readers group on goodreads talking about it. They liked Laura writing and didn’t seem to be very mean but genuinely confused 😕.
Laura once said there are rules regarding writing romance. Romance genre now has a lot of unrealistic rules (remember the”hygiene” theory I came up with😂). I think the confusing readers are in a fog unrealistic romance tropes and expected that the signal of Kim being insignificant could only be rendered as Phil only having ONS with her. But that was simply not what would happen in reality. and by expecting that kind of crude plot mechanism, readers missed a lot of details that Laura crafted beautifully to deliver a deep story with multidimensional characters🤔
Berenice, I hope too! ❤️ You had such Grace like moments in those comments , I wanted to point them out to you but I didn’t because I didn’t want you to be mad at me and saying… ‘How dare you ESRA’
But I do think if some deleted scenes were part of the book, readers would have a better understanding… Like the break-up scene… Cam someone tell me why those were deleted? They were very crucial I think 🤔
Then, I got it! I would never think that because Lina took care of Katie and struggled with the crisis, Phil didn’t get the attention and found Lina not taking cafe of herself, making herself less attractive than Kim! This was a huge misunderstanding on their part for sure!! I thought they were talking that Katie crisis being a factor in his cheating. Also talking about man temporarily blame/hate their children for their own problems, yes, it happened for some men/heroes but never Phil! Phil love his children and he is a family man!! I was researching Catherine Dickens recently, so I read a lot of victorian marriage, civil legality and women rights papers, monographs and even Hi-Fi. Gosh, you cannot believe those sad wicked men blaming/hating their wives and innocent children for their own incompetence!!! I was in agony while reading all those!
Phil was such a contrast!!phew😌
Also, do you remember we talked about his “insecure”/wounded ego?? I had that whole mimicking inner thoughts of him being rejected and doubting😂.Yeah, me too!!I definitely think that he did that(Kim) to secretly and childishly prove he was wanted (while his Lina rejected him), lol adorable!
and Plzzzz, no Eros and Kim in one sentence, Kim didn’t deserve it😉😉 (I am joking😂)
Seriously ! I thank God that when zaincruise gave me the books she had already told me about the blog. And you are right I think that’s why I asked Laura about the notification. Because reader can’t understand that if he love Lina like the way he did why would he continue it for four months.? A girl seemed to like the books but she was really confused when she wrote ‘I love this writer and I have read both books but I still don’t know why he cheated because they never talked about it and she never made him explain anything’ I think some reader wanted to know the affair from the Phil POV to understand how he was feeling at that time.
Thank God we have this blog and never had this problem and I didn’t read WPS without SN. Both books have a big gap between them and something tells me that SN wasn’t pre-planned. (I hope I am wrong)
Gosh!!! I kept hitting the reply button even when I know it wasn’t working… Actually I get it but from there perspective it seems that Phil hated his own daughter… I know her situation was the reason which ultimately created problems (fights and arguments) but there had to be a Nick for Phil to cheat. I think he didn’t like they way Lina was letting Nick decide what’s best for Katie since he was her father and he wanted to decide it himself. But I never thought he was hating that Lina was taking care of Katie and was not taking care of him.
As you said he was a man-child when it came to Lina. And I strongly believe that he (subconsciously) wanted to prove to Lina tha if you don’t want me someone does. 😂 You know Lina not wanting to get physical was a big blow to his ego and Kim was there to made him feel like Eros!!
As for ultimate betrayal(My first cheating book) I thought I loved it when I first read it but he was having a good make out session with other woman and no one at his office knew about his wife and kids….it was very hurtful for the wife. I don’t know but I think the writer wanted us to forgive him since he didn’t have sex with OW he must be in love with his wife but keeping her a secret from everyone made me think maybe he was ashamed of her or something.
I can see the resemblance but I would never compared them because his cheating happened because she was taking care of kids who were also his kids.
In Hunter Universe that was never the case. He never thought Lina had became unattractive or stopped taking care of herself stuff like that. To him the only beautiful woman was Lina. Sure he was attracted to Kim on physical level but it wasn’t that maddening attraction or anything like that.
Also, correct me if I am wrong(I mean it!😌). I feel that as long as they don’t say things such as Phil loved/liked Kim; Phil cheated because Kim was exciting and marriage/Lina was dull; Phil was weak etc etc; then among all those factors that lead him to slip, readers could form their percentage of accountability, based on what they see and value from those causal factors. For example, we all know the last straw was there’s a man(Nick) “taking over Phil’s control over his family”. I know it’s a very crucial factor in his cheating, maybe the most crucial because it pained him the most, making him completely lost and hurt. But I have been a reader trying to balancing the important roles of household’s “institutional difficulty”(Katie problem) and Phil’s own character (he was a good man and Hero but he doesn’t have the same formula as Nick when confronting crisis as such) in his cheating.
But if they couldn’t see the whole picture and just concluded that the only thing they can see after reading was Phil couldn’t handle crisis so he cheated, then I think their interpretation was biased and completely wrong for sure😌
WPF and SN are soooo intriguing and captivating♥️. Readers need to come to the blog for help!! Gosh, if we didn’t find the blog, what we gonna do😮💨
I am very sad as well! We have so many memorable and meaningful back and forth🥺, ESRA♥️
Hope that next week, when host finishes maintenance, all lost posts could be back🎈
Is it not?
It’s partially??
Lina stopped putting Phil first (which she did for years and simply “spoiled” him a little bit) is one of the factor broke their connection. ESRA you even wrote about this during our conversation.
In Early blog discussion, someone compared this with an old book The Ultimate Betrayal. The husband was driven away and one of the reason was wife lost connection with him because of the children problem.
Katie initially created a difficult condition and Nick made Lina turn away from him completely and Kim as an accessible painkiller, then a perfect storm?
Ok, I was aimlessly wandering on the Goodreads where I wanted to look for an old thread ‘DON’T SHOOT ME FOR LOOKING’ because that thread had some very good historical and contemporary angsty cheating recommendations and came across a cheating romance group where they were discussing the WPS and SN and talking about Phil….although they all agreed that Laura writing was extremely beautiful (no doubts about it)but they had this misperception that Phil cheated because Lina was putting their daughter first and I was like what!!!?????????
Yeah, the blog is easy to access from my laptop but I had bookmarked the blog page so it had no problem accessing it from the smartphone. But I am a little sad that some of the comments had vanished. but I am also happy that now I got to talk about hunters again in a new way!!!!!!!!! sorry guys but I just love them too much.
Thank you for the clarification❤️. I am a little bit childish and confused about themes such as losing someone and moving on🥺. I need to constantly remind myself that every love is different😌. You always contextualise serious and complicated themes seamlessly and write them beautifully. So I will just patiently wait for the new release😳. Also, I know that the h has a teenage son who is edgy. I am very interested about him😌 and his bond with H’s son(I remembered H has a small boy who survived the tragedy?)
Originally the h had a teenage son, but I changed my mind. The h is a 26 yr old artist — The H is 41 with a 3 year old. Things could still change, but that’s what’s happening…
Berenice — my new book isn’t sad — except for the obvious fact that the hero is a widow, but it begins two years after the H loses his wife. It’s about moving on and finding a new love 🙂
Wow, just finished reading the new conversation!! The next book will be about Logan??? I’m so excited!! Logan is my favorite character in the entire Hunter-verse. A war correspondent? I can totally imagine him being like that! Sensitive and Assertive! Laura, you’re amazing.🧡
Zainecruise, congrats on the academic achievement!
I haven’t been able to keep up. Just happy to read everyone’s comments! I’m preparing for Phd qualifying exam…wish me luck😮💨
I want to add that emotional cheating is in general on par with physical cheating about the damages done to the relationship. Or it could even be worse. However, Lina’s case is a bit different. I think she is a spiritual person so she always connects with people on an emotional level. During Katie’s turmoil, she got no emotional support from Phil because Phil does not like psychology and as Laura explained, at the time he didn’t even have the emotional capacity to help Lina, Katie and himself. That’s the growth he achieved in SN. So Lina used Nick (unprofessionally) as an emotional crutch for a while. Then the line got blurred enough and it became an EA.
One thing that tortures me to this day is the indefinite possibility (alternative universe) that Phil (as he is a principled man) would give Kim special treatment for being the mother of his son if Kim weren’t a diva. I hope not. He is a typical a-hole alpha right?? No friendly relationship with the bio parent or thoughtful sophistication to maintain the cordial facade. I’m so torn. I feel that irl plentiful of separated couples don’t have any communication with the other parent. Only pick-ups and logistics. No need (even amicable separation) to be emotionally invested in a relationship with Kid’s bio mom or dad. Phil is that type right??
Hi Berenice…I was wondering what you mean by “special treatment.” I was a co-parenting mother and i had no relationship with my ex or communication unless it concerned our daughter.
Phil would have been the same way with Kim. There would have been no buying her Christmas gifts so Liam could give her one etc. Phil would have went by their legal custody and support agreement period and would have answered calls or messages regarding Lima only. Even if she wasn’t a diva, he still would not have had an overly friendly relationship with her. I think to him that would have been disloyal to Lina, nor would Lina have been open to that type of relationship with Kim. Liam would have been his interest only!
Phil was an alpha, but not an a-hole one, but as you said a principled one.
Hi Tracie,
Thanks for the answer! I was reading some posts ranting about co-existing “peacefully” with partners’ Ex or AP with whom they shared a child. Many tender moments could happen between parents unpromptedly. It just got me thinking if Kim is normal and there’s no nasty fallouts, how Phil gonna handle that? Like, it wasn’t because Kim was special but Liam made Kim special in Phil’s world (son’s mother). I completely agree that gift-giving during holiday seasons or other cordial scenarios would have been disloyal to Lina. Sigh, I know Phil maintained his boundaries firmly!
Test.
Tami,
Your words touched me. Thank you!
Comments like yours inspire me to write.
❤️ Laura
I think Logan will grow up to be a war correspondent or a photo journalist that spends a lot of time overseas. Of course, Lina will hate his career choice. He will be basically live out of a backpack for the decade after college. And then the novel begins…
Oh my goodness how cool will that be…I can see Logan in a steel pot photographing a war zone, being in the middle of chaos and danger.
I think Phil would miss his son and Lina would be a nervous wreck….He would become known world wide for his journalism and photographs.
You know Phil always accused Logan of running from his family….Did the adult Logan do just that? Can’t wait, but like Tami will remain patient.
Yes, I think our adult Logan will be commitment averse. And it will a direct result of the what he went through as a teenager. Don’t worry, I like happy endings.
Will Phil recognize Logan’s aversion to commitment Laura? I know Lina would pickup on it.
Let your mind run doll….you will rock it!
Good question – I don’t know. As you said, Lina would definitely understand and see the correlation. It’s a touchy subject – she wouldn’t want to point it out to Phil – he can’t change what he did and it would kill him to think his actions changed the trajectory of Logan’s life in such a profound way. I guess we will have to see. Our Phil doesn’t dwell on things and doesn’t like psychology so I’m thinking no, but he may surprise me.
Our Phil recognizes hurt in his children. A specific for me was when Logan asked him if he would ever cheat on Lina again. Phil said the hurt in his sons eyes broke his heart. Our Phil wouldn’t dwell and he wouldn’t recognize the hurt unless Logan showed it. I’m really starting to recognize now Logan may well be a complex H.
Oh, I am so curious- who will be the woman that will cure him from this aversion.
Just off the cuff…she’ll be a strong independent woman. I see him being drawn to a woman that would have similar traits to his mother. Which if I had to pick just two of Lina’s traits, they would be her creativity and her amazing ability to nurture.
So happy to hear this. I was late to these books and I have had a year long obsession with the Hunter family!
I finished the books 3 months ago but the characters stayed with me. There were some answers I wanted to ask to understand something. I felt like some details needed to get out of the way before the path to forgiveness became clear. but I was afraid to ask since I don’t know how the author would react to me asking something that she has already answered numerous times. But I am glad I took the chance and come to the blog. After reading responses from Esra Zaincruise and Tracie since their comments were more like explanatory than quizzical, I understand the situation better and I was glad Phil was not invested in to Kim on personal level though I hated he let her share his bed in NYC. You girls are doing great job Thank you so much for your comments to make the picture clear. If I have said something that was offensive please forgive me.
Hi Ella!
Thanks for your comment. Don’t worry this is a judgment-free zone. We all have a right to dislike or like the characters and the way the story unfolded. As Tracie pointed out below, the characters take on a life of their own when I’m writing. They sometimes surprise me.
Having said that, I might defend them if you choose to criticize them – they are my babies 😊..
Laura
I know this is gonna be a awesome Laura!
Although I will try to be patient but I would be lying if I say I am not dying to get my hands on Logan’s book. LOL.
Thanks Ella and Welcome!
If you scroll down a little further you will find Tracie explanation on that particular part you hate(or maybe you have to hunt down her comment on that one in other discussion topics, I don’t know but once you do you will have the answer and to many others as well.)it’s gonna be a win win situation for you.
I hope Esra you are done with your rereading for the report I can’t wait to see wait to see what grade you gonna get after pulling all-nighters for over a month. Good luck girl!
Yes, good luck Esra! I have no doubt your hard work will pay off!
Thanks Laura!
But after spending days and hours with Phil Laura he and I have created a very special bond. Getting into his mind in SN and putting myself in his shoes had made me receptive to his pain his guilt, the man has suffered enough. Please let his fling with Kim be a thing of past I don’t want it looming above their head. But of course it is something I want doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen that way.
Zaincruise I will ace it I am pretty confident about it.
Ella thanks for liking my rants and ramblings. LOL
You will ace it Esra! You go girl!
Thank you so much Zaincruise and Laura for welcoming me.
I had initially thought I was probably the only one coming down with Hunter’s fever but seeing so many comments I am revealed! phew Thank God I ‘m not the only crazy one here.
I had so many questions before but after reading responses from all of you I am in a better place and at peace finally!
Cheating is a trigger of mine I have never read books with that topic ever because I know once I do I won’t be able to get it out of my head. I read these book on whim to change my taste. I became so invested into this story that I was not able to eat and sleep from sometime.
I know it was about overcoming infidelity but my brain was tangled up in why when and how so much. I don’t want to bore you guys with my sappy story but you see my husband cheated on me and left me after two years of marriage for someone else. Their story felt personal to me but of course Phil loves Lina, nothing like my ex-husband. Comments from Tracie, Zaincrusie, Esra and you Laura were like balm to my soul as you guys broke the situation bit by bit. I was finally able to understand that it was a story of two people who immensely loved each other. THANK U SO MUCH! for being sensitive enough to understand and expounding it enough for readers like me.
I would love to read more about Hunter’s family Please let me know as soon as the new book comes out so I can immediately buy it.
Ella – I’m sorry you had to experience such a betrayal. The entire idea for these stories came after a very good friends husband left her for another woman.
I felt Lina’s pain every step of the way.
When Lina cried, I cried. It was tough book to write. An editor told me the readers usually feel the same emotions as the writer. For someone who has experienced something similar, I’m sure the feelings are magnified.
I can promise you I would never write a story with infidelity again.
I find that time is the only healer in these situations. I hope you are doing well now.
Thanks Laura for being so kind and helpful.
Phil is a character I don’t hate (surprisingly) but I was obsessed with details of his affair for my own personal reasons to reassure myself that he wasn’t anything like my ex husband even during that time (it might sound absurd but we readers are very possessive about our MCs)but at the same time I was respectful of your choice to not write about the ugly details.
When I came here I was prepared to beg you to share all of those with me or else I would keep torturing myself over something that might not be true. But thankfully I didn’t have to restore to that since some of your readers have already done that for me (albeit unknowingly)
As much as I hate the pain you had to go through I am glad it was you who wrote it. You handled the topic very aptly and expertly Laura. Oddly I feel good and better now. As Hermione granger said in Harry potter: ‘Fear of a name only increases the fear of the thing itself’
You are very unique and beautiful inside out Laura. We need more people like you to make this world a beautiful place.
I am sure no matter what topic you will choose to write, it is going to be awesome and great.
I love Phil and Lina they have became my most favourite couple. God! I know they are not real but they feel real to me.( what’s wrong with me) 😔
Oh Ella honey nothing is wrong with you. Laura was so exceptional at creating these characters she made them real to all of us. I was desperate for her to write SN I lived and breathed the Hunters for two years straight. I still associate them with books I read and can’t wait for the next time Laura opens their lives to us again. If you go back to the original blog, when we first started you will see where Janet and I literally begged for her to write SN. It will probably make you laugh at how desperate we were..I mean that literally desperate…🤪
I second that Tracie and Ella! Laura has this innate ability to bring her characters alive with just words. We all love Phil so damn much there’s nothing wrong with you.
I feel so great to Tracie and Janet that these two girls had already done the hard work for us. Imagine reading WPS without SN(shudders) can’t even think about it.
I feel so honored and grateful that some of my words were able to make you see something clearly but then again credit goes to Laura because as an author she never left her readers in the dark. We were able to expound it because of her help.
I hope you are in a good place right now.
A quick reply from my side Ella; he shared her bed but did not let her share his bed ever. He did not cuddle her he slept on his side and she on hers. He didn’t sleep over at her place except the nights they had to fly to NYC for two or three times.
Zaincruise! I did asked Simone that question you know despite it not being part of my case study. She said it’s 100x more intense+satisfying if you are doing it with someone you love and had this deep connection with vs doing it with someone you have no emotional ties with. And funny things is you don’t need to be a sex therapist to know that. LOL.
Hey!!!! You should have trusted me on that one….we and Berenice have already discussed this at length. You were in on that conversation if I remember correctly. But of course you had to go and ask the expert about it.😏
For that I think Laura meant what Lina decided not what actually happened. GOT IT!!! Get on the track girl you are moving backward. LOL
I have got a little work that I have to complete and then I have to prepare for the upcoming interview (just pray I don’t make a mess of things). I am trying to act cool but I am dreading it.
Before I take my leave I want to shed some light on what Tami said. I think the main problem with alpha male is that they take the role of a protector and provider very seriously and showing vulnerability and being sensitive is a form of weakness to them. According to them the world out there is filled with sharks who can gobble you up in seconds if you are not careful. Of course that’s not the case always nowadays but that’s how they look at it. So in their mind they try to toughen them up to protect them from potential threats. Most of the time I have seen boys having close relationship with mothers than fathers because a mother is always willing to understand, listen and accept them as they are whereas a father( with that tough guy mentality) would always try to mold him in the mini version of himself.
Esra good luck for the assessment. You are gonna ace it dw.
I Love you all!!!!
I know!! but what I do with me and my stupid mind!!!
Just relax you can do it.
After spending days and hours asking so many people and ranting here incessantly, digging deeper into the minds of men if I still don’t ace in that report I am going to open the ice cream tub and eat it all alone watching all seasons of Mad men. (just kidding) I m pretty confident about it.
And in my defense I was asking about that specific number because to be more elaborative in my report not for anything else.
(in the meantime my brain is wondering: ‘Why does she know me so well? ‘) 🤔🤨😏
One thing I forgot to mention here she told me that’s why I am always telling the girls all the time to form a connection with a boy before jumping into bed him with otherwise it won’t mean anything. You know what I mean.
You Esra !!!! Seriously you are really going to make Laura kick me out of here.
I personally think d**** style for two reasons It’s allows men to focus on their own pleasure more and secondly because Laura said he did not look into her eyes so there you have it.
I specifically asked this from guys( in my friend list) who have a long history of ONS. They said it’s a win win situation for both participants without getting any emotions involved.
Hope that was enough for your curiosity.
Now stop it you nosy little girl!!!
Awwww…. But that’s what friends are for…. 😁
Yeah! Really maybe I should remind you it’s you who are meeting psychologist and sex therapist not me.
I have a hot date with Mr. Commercial and Residential Leases and Mr.Title dispute and litigation from that thick Law book.
Both wants my undivided attention. Let me focus on them first. 😉😉😂😂😂 Before they get jealous and decide to walk out of my brain. 😜😜
You girls are so cuttttteee! Laura and I both commenting under Tami’s comment.
Wondering what you two will think!
Girls here some things to think about in regards to Logan’s book!
I always wonder would a teenage Liam have a small bit of jealousy toward Logan for being Phil and Lina’s legitimate son. I just don’t see how Liam could go through his school years without hearing petty rumors of his birth. Phil even acknowledged that in SN by saying his life wouldn’t be as easy as Logan’s.
I think Logan will be a big influence in teenage Liam’s life because of Phil being older. I read a book once where the H said my dad was 43 when I was born and he was tired when I graduated HS and exhausted when I graduated college.
Would Liam feel segregated from his older siblings since he wasn’t raised with them and didn’t have the bond with them that the older ones had with each other. Meghan even pointed that out in SN, when she said it’s not like he’s our real brother. Meghan cracked me up!
Will Logan have relationship commitment issues, because of what the family went through. Remember when he told Phil I would never do what you did. Phil said I would hope not.
Laura once told us she has an idea of what she’s going to write, but the characters could change that direction once she’s into a scene. I think that’s amazing. I’m just so excited….I know it will be awhile because of her job, but when she takes the writing of pause prepare to be amazed.
A very good point Tracie!
I think it is natural given his circumstances around his birth because kids can be very vindictive sometimes. Although I am not so sure about Meghan I think Logan and Katie are always going to be there for him as well as Lina and Phil to make him feel secure and protected. Lina is already fiercely protective of him.
I can’t say same about Kim though I think most of his resentment would be direct towards her once he became older enough to understand what really went down because she tried to use him as a pawn to bring Phil back to her. She can’t hide who she is and since I don’t see her changing her attitude towards Lina I don’t think that Liam would accept it without giving her a piece of his mind.
Now him feeling a bit jealous of Logan seems natural but I think for the most part he would look up to him as an older brother. Remember how he followed Logan around the house when he was just a baby.
I just can’t wait for Logan’s book.
I think the same way because part of why Phil had that special connection with Liam because Liam didn’t had the security of a loving mother as Logan. Phil takes the role of the father very seriously.
He knew the type of mother Kim was leaving Liam with nannies to go enjoy her life and since he didn’t knew if Lina would ever accept him I think that was part of the reason why he felt that connection with Liam. I see him feeling the same way if Logan was ever distressed or in danger because he loves all of his children equally.
I know I am going off the topic here but about that break up scene. Did anybody noticed Kim matter of fact tone when she offered him that blow job? That one made me laugh! LOL.
I forgot to add here that I think he would look up to Logan more like a father figure sometimes more than Phil maybe. I have a friend she was born at a time when all of her sisters and brothers were very old than her. What really surprises me that she has more of a motherly relationship with her eldest sister than her actual mother. Phil would definitely be there but I see him turning to Logan whenever he wants an advice or something.
Hi everybody,
What great news. During the last months I thought that in the whole aftermath of the affair, the one that was most affected was Logan.
First, for me also, the Hunters hunt me on a daily basis, mostly in a good way.
I love Phil! But, he definitely has his issues. Very narrow minded at times, his views regarding child raising- infuriating. But, as I say, I love him because of the things that he is. Loves his family, so smart and articulate, sexy (well, sure).
The way he treats Lina is wonderful- loves her so much.
BUT, I HATE how he treats Logan. As if he needs to show his dominance in every aspect, continuously. And Laura did here, as throughout the book, an amazing work. Because this is so characteristics to this type of men. I know, because this is how my husband treats my son, who is less assertive and sure of himself than my other sons. It infuriates me to no end. This is our major topic of arguments. I believe that Logan suffers and will suffer in the future from this attitude. This is not to say that my husband, as Phil, will not be willing to die for our son. But, he also thinks that this is a way to toughen him up (strong eye roll).
In this respect, I predict some problems in Logan’s relationship with Liam. I am sure that sweet Logan, that smiled constantly as Lina and Nick mentioned, came out of Phil’s affair and Liam’s arrival as a completely differrnt person. Keep in mind that Phil despises the less manly characteristics of Logan and wants him to change into a more aggressive, one that is not “shying from the ball” in the game. Liam on the other hand has all of Phil’s charm, and is built more as Phil physically. In addition, Phil feels the urge to protect him, because of his rough start and that Kim and not Lina is his mother. This is a very fertile ground for strong jealosy from Logan. Which may, at times, affect the father -son relationship.
Can’t wait to read the book and I am so happy and thankful to Esra, Zaincruise and Tracie from keeping the discussions on this family alive.
That’s great analysis Tami… And welcome to the discussion.
Wow! now that’s making me more eager to read Logan’s book. All that angst and emotions packed in a book. Love it Tami❤️
But I also think Lina will play a very crucial role in keeping everyone in line. Since she is the only one who can tame the tiger😂
Hi Tami!
Yes (sorry Tracie). All the drama occurred at the worse time for Logan – he was old enough to feel the full brunt of the betrayal, but not mature enough to process it all. He will make an interesting character…
Okay I’m feeling all sorts of thing right now. I’m flipping through my thoughts like a whirlwind through a Rolodex. Laura you know I always struggled with Phil and Logan’s relationship. I always thought when he got older and when he matured how he would react to watching Phil with Liam at the same age as he was when his world tumbled. I think about all the times Phil told Logan he couldn’t judge him. I don’t think Logan wanted to judge him, but he wasn’t old enough to hold him accountable either. I wonder what young Logan was thinking when he tried to slide into Phil’s role as the man of the house at such a young age. I remember in WPF when Logan told Katie how all the man speeches were a lie. Phil was Logan’s example and when he realized his dad went against everything he had been taught to this point in his life, now what? Phil loved Logan with the same passion as all his other children, but I don’t think he realized the full ramifications of what went on with Logan after the separation. Phil raised Logan to protect, but I don’t think Logan could process how to protect Lina from Phil’s betrayal. We saw that in SN when he blocked Phil’s access to Lina at the top of the stairs. Oh my this will be an interesting and enlightening read.
Wow… That’s so deep and intense. Laura has her work cut out for this one Tracie.
Personally Kim never let Hunters breath for Phil to understand what trouble his first born might be going through. At that time his main priority was Lina.
She literally made their life a living hell in these two books. And on top of that since she couldn’t be a mother she forced her kid on Hunter’s so soon. Everything happened so fast.
But I want Phil to be extremely proud of Logan I want a special connection and bond between him and Logan. Although parents love all their children equally but I want that specific special connection only between him and Logan.( this is purely based on what I want) I know the road to this outcome won’t be easy but I still want it.
I think Liam is going to be a troubled teenager kind of like a rebel without a cause. I know he is very good at sport but I want him to struggle in his studies(secretly I just want Phil to have a taste of his own medicine) I mean he can’t be good at everything.
Wow!!! Tracie you have made some really good points I wondered about it too. Logan is was and will always be my favorite out of all Phil kids.
I know he would only open up to Laura about the pain he went through but I hated that Phil was too much focused on Liam( I know he was a baby) but when thought about how people will treat Liam differently
I wanted to yell at him then What about Logan? what he must be going through at school all those whispers gossip. How did he coup with all that. Although I was happy at the end of the SN I was secretly hopping for a scene between Phil and Logan where he hug him tightly and listen to him only.
Laura Logan is already hurt enough please make it all go away in his book. Out of all the Phil kids he deserves it more. And make him a hot sexy billionaire. I want him to have the midas touch.
I am sending my list to Santa Claus. I promise I won’t be naughty this year if he grant me this wish. 🤗😊
I think Logan will be a remarkable man. Liam will love him and Phil will be proud of Logan. Laura will evolve Logan, his love interest and the rest of the Hunters in a way we won’t see coming. I love the anticipation of it all. We said once that Phil is Phil. Liam will be raised the same as all his children…I’m hoping Logan helps Liam navigate his teen years. We’ll see!!!!
I also think a lot of Phil’s protective obsession to Liam was his guilt and that Liam was outside of his control when he was with Kim and not knowing if he was being mistreated or left somewhere. Lina was the epitome of what a mother should be and Kim was just the opposite so I feel Phil was just trying to even the odds for Liam when he had him.
So true about Liam part Tracie! After reading your insight I simply just can’t wait to read it. All those emotions, feelings and angst. This gonna be amazing.
Buckle up your seat Ladies Laura soon will take us on a ride we will never forget.
Liam will look up to Logan I have no doubt about that because Logan will help Liam to chart his own course in life and make it easier for him to navigate treacherous roads ahead. I love their bonding in the last chapter of SN.
Rereading the books and the comments, what strikes me most is the artful way these books are written. We can discuss in length Lina’s thought and reactions, her interaction with Nick, the complexity of Nick (an excellent doctor, that jeopardizes his professional career), Magen, Katie, Lina’s and Phil’s parents and so on. Each is described so precisely, that we can read it over and over and according to our age, stage in our life, personality, we discover different facets of the story.
I don’t know anything about literature, other than that I love it (when done like this). But, I think that these books draws us in so much is because of the accuracy and depth Laura captured the characters. These are not one or two dimensional characters, but multi-dimentional. That is also why their future is so interesting for us. These are live people, that we like, love or have seriously mixed feelings for them, but they are important to us, like a close friend of family.
Sorry for going on and on, but really, the fact that we just can’t stop thinking about them is amazing. Very few books did this for me.
THANK YOU LAURA, and I am not going to urge you to write (now) another book because I understand that this process of writing requires all your devotion, so I’ll be patient 😉
Hi Girls, first let me say how proud I am of both of of you for what you’re accomplishing in your respective fields of study. You both are amazing and I expect you girls to accomplish great things.
Now down to our Phil. I like the word “escapism” for his actions because that it’s exactly what Kim was to him. I always said the text messages from his perspective were clinical not emotional in anyway shape or form. I’ll be there in this amount of time.. be naked…do the deed, get dressed… give me the info I needed on that case file, etc you get the picture. Now first Chapter of WPF, like I said Laura and Janet made it clear to me that when Phil came to bed he wanted Lina asleep because he was tired of fighting. I thought to myself why was he tired of fighting??? Was he tired of seeing himself drift further from Lina? Was he tired of looking at his life from the outside in? Was he tired of the extramarital affair? But when Lina said she missed him when he came to bed and he ask her if she really did and she touched his cheek and said yes I love you. I think for me that was the first time Phil let himself be vulnerable. He really needed her to get that question right! Then when that connection was re-established Kim was no different than a fixture on the wall. The breakup scene was confirmation of just that…her dress hugging her hips, etc he had no physical reaction just regret. Wooohoooo. I love my Phil.
The baseball scene was pivotal for me as well. I asked Laura to please expand that scene. I could feel Phil’s panic at the baseball game, but I needed Laura to live and write that panic for me so I could read it. I can only imagine the conversation in his mind as he drove home to Lina. Another sign of integrity on his part, he bit the bullet and laid it all out there for Lina knowing he was going to hurt her more than anyone ever could by telling her about his betrayal. But as her protector, he immediately went proactive trying to right his wrong. Which in my book is awesome!
OMG! That’s so wonderful and awesome assessment Tracie…. You have this beautiful gift to see what a lot of people would might miss due to their inability to forgive and understanding.(although they are entitled to their own opinion nothing wrong with that)
You are absolutely awesome. As Laura has always said you understand the real Phil as well as she does. Thank you for your beautiful words. They means a lot. Big hug to you. 🤗
That makes me think that he must have visited you from time to time as he did Laura for you to understand him this well.🤔 😉
He still visits me in different books I read wondering how Phil would act or me thinking why can’t you man up like my Phil…Lol
I do the same thing…the main reason that I can’t get invested in a story most of the time nowadays is because I am always like why can’t you be like him why are you so ‘meh’. Phil has ruined me for life I think, where do I find anyone like him. Hope we will meet soon in Logan’s book.
That is 100% correct and a great analysis Tracie! I love it. Word to word it so true!!!!!!
You see the words ‘escapism’ is a very crucial word in psychological world. When I first became acquainted with the it and its different connotation in the psychology I had to raked up my brain a little bit like where I had hear that word from? Then I remember that I had learn about it from Laura first. So it gave me an idea to study Phil as a character keeping that word in my mind to get a different perspective (from a male Doctor and a Female Doctor ) to understand if they both would give me the different opinion or not. I was shocked when they both used the same word in analyzing Phil actions the infamous word ‘escapism’ without any help from my side based purely on their experience and knowledge.
Laura books are so well researched and so well articulated it just grips your heart in your palm and never let you go.
And thank you so much for the kind words Tracie. What really struck me here is the fact that Zaincruise and I go back and forth writing these long ass paragraphs bringing in all the information we have gathered, yet here comes the Queen drop few simple paragraphs and Bingo! everything falls in to place.
Amazing ability Tracie.
Esra this is what I found while I was googling. Since we’re always rambling on about Phil we overlook Lina’s part.
There are two types of cheating – physical and emotional. While the former is self-explanatory, involving an attraction that leads to some kind of physical contact; the latter, has more to do with finding a connection with someone on a psychological level. While both are obviously deemed immoral, common opinion recognises emotional cheating as being more devastating.
Considering that emotional attachment is what keeps a couple connected to each other in a long-term commitment, finding out that your partner shares that kind of bond with someone else, will obviously be more devastating. Also, emotional cheating deprives the existing partner of emotional connect, promoting irreparable damage in trust and intimacy, causing a lack of communication, and plenty of insecurities.
Usually men takes this very seriously because I remember one of my male friend saying that a woman pulling away from a man on either level is like a big blow to their ego much worse than a kick to the balls. LOL.
So Yeah I 100% agree with Tracie on that one. They both messed up
Wow that’s heavy… I don’t know how I will treat my patients if I am crying half of the time with them.
Emotional Cheating Examples
1. You talk about things you wouldn’t talk to your spouse about.
2. You hide the connection in an emotional affair.
3. You change your schedule to see this person
4. You tell yourself that you’re “just friends.”
6. You think about the other person a lot.
7. You eagerly look forward to seeing them.
8 You feel he or she understands you better than your partner does.
9. The intimacy you once had with your spouse is decreasing.
So I also agree with Tracie they both messed up big time. But I am glad they are were able to come together as a couple stronger than ever. Personally to me both are worse and damaging even if the statistics says otherwise.
Simone said something to me that really resonated with me she said ‘ Sometimes you run too fast that everything around you becomes a blur sometimes it’s okay to stumble so when you get back up you are more cautious and more appreciative of your surroundings.’
I will tell her!
I am really mad at the audacity of some people calling Laura’s heroine weak. I mean seriously, cheating was a fad topic for 2022 and they way some authors have butchered it I am not being biased just stating the facts. No one has ever written it the way you did Laura. Love you for that.
Hi Zaincruise and Esra!
Zaincruise – thank you for loving my characters so much that you want them on the big screen! I’m honored.
I miss you girls and it was fun to read the new comments. I have said this before, but I will say it again. As a female, I have never felt comfortable writing the thoughts of a male character. I just don’t know how realistic it is to believe a woman knows how a man thinks. What I do know is how people act. I love to watch people and Phil is based on real men.
I get criticized for setting a bad example for women because my female characters aren’t strong enough. I don’t agree. Their strength is subtle. And I write what I see, not how I think women should act.
I am working again and my position is more than full time so writing is currently on hold. Having said that, working is how I get more ideas for my characters. The next main character will be Logan. He will be about 30 so Liam will be a teenager and Phil and Lina will be in their 50s! That will be fun
And Tracie – I really think you know Phil as well as I do! Love you!
Is it what it is or am I dreaming (someone please pinch me) Logan’s book from hunter!!!!! I Can’t wait to read that. You are a Queen Laura.
Due to the uniqueness nature of the circumstances (Like his Love for his wife which won’t let him cross some boundaries even when he felt rejected by her) in which Phil affair happened it presented me with the perfect case study. I wanted to treat him like a psychiatrist would treat a patient. ( I know he is gonna give me the coldest glare if he heard me say that) so upon my rereading I realized that I had to broaden my horizon more then a reader to get to the crux of the matters.
LOVE YOU TRACIE AND LAURA ♥️♥️♥️
That’s why we were pitching in here with other people opinions I hope you don’t mind Laura….😊😊
Esra say Hi to Simone she is really best!
Really Logan?????❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ I will love that!!!!
OMG! That’s insane and awesome Laura I can’t imagine what will happen after we get Logan’s story because that would epic! It would be like a best gift ever because that’s what your writing is. It is a gift just remember that. All these years and we aren’t still can’ t get enough of them.
Since Esra and I are the part of academic environment which makes it easier for us to talk to a lots of people, expert, teachers and our mates we have always had this tendency to look at a situation from every different angles and every different perspective, since we are obsessed with Hunter’s we have talked to a lot of people about them. Below is the thought process of man at his lowest point in life which was shared to us by an expert.
The following days and months were considerably colder and more frigid than the Sierra air on the day I did something I never thought I would ever do. My world continued to spin out of control as I tried to hold on to regular daily activities, work, and simply survive each day. I had to work through and get past the self-pity, loathing, anger, sadness, and pangs of thoughts that I was a failure. I was living on autopilot.
The woman I love was there physically but emotionally she was lost to me I could see that in her eyes.
I think Esra added it in her final report
I know Laura you said your main focus was on the aftermath not the affair but I always wanted to dig a little deeper in his character and make people see where he was coming from. He didn’t do those things feeling like a man on top of the world he did them with that mindset.
I think one of the biggest problems I have seen nowadays in people is that they are sold on to this idea of perfectionism which does not exist. We humans are not wired like that. We make mistakes we learn from them and move on. they synonym the ability of forgiveness with weakness. It takes courage to believe in yourself and believe in the goodness of other person. If wanting to believe and accept your own shortcomings is the definition of weak than I will gladly be that.
Love you Laura just do what you think is right.
Hi Laura, I am a fan of your books, especially White Picket Fence books. I love how realistic the characters are, they are like people that I know in real life.
I am happy to read here that you are planning on writing a book for Logan as I have always been curioud to know what happened to the Hunter family after their happy ever after in Swimming Naked. 🥰
Looking forward to many more stories from you, and I’ll always cheer you on!
He was fucking her not making love Zaincruise! an hour or couple of hours was all he needed.
God I made such a fuss about that bar pic and had this long discussion with Berenice saying that she must have staged it somehow. But now upon rereading it makes sense, previously since I was so mad I had forgotten that she was sitting on the barstool and he was standing while he chatted with someone she knew. I had read too much into something that was only natural nothing to fuss over. LOL
Esra from now on we will keep our comments succinct and brief I just realize we are taking up so much of Laura ‘s blog space and our comments are literally the longest ones.
There is difference between ‘couldn’t get enough of something’ and ‘feeling unsatisfied’ If I am thirsty and someone hands me a can of coke instead, I would feel ok for a while then I would want the water again and if the water is not available then I would drink the coke again to make my thirst go away until this method will no longer work. That’s not me having ‘couldn’t get enough of coke’ that’s me using coke as a substitute of water until I will start feeling unsatisfied again because my thirst has never gone away. (God! what a horrible exemplar I am but I know you will understand) so when Phil took Lina three times after his confrontation with Nick it was him having his couldn’t get enough of Lina moment whereas when he texted Kim as two times in a day it was him feeling unsatisfied.
100% agree and I love that example. I am going to a party to tonight I won’t be able to comment today let me get back from it then we will talk about it some more. LOVE YOU UMMMMAHHHH
Enjoy your party and wear that red dress I know you gonna rock it. I I’m putting my reply to your text here.
I have meeting with my friend let’s see what see thinks.
Yeah! I find it odd like you she texted him that Friday knowing that they could have gotten together on Saturday means she must have sense something off about him. Phil may have thought about meeting her but he sure was not that keen he could have texted her when he had gone out of the room but he didn’t. Their connection had not been rekindled till then so I don’t know what was stopping him. Lina plan with Wayne’s and Logan game didn’t overlap with his running group time he could have met her and reply to her text yet he still didn’t. Remember he came home early she must be like why would he choose to go home when he could spend it with her.
I think while her main purpose was to trap Phil as the pursuer if Phil had ever replied to any of her text with some sexual remarks she would have sent it to Lina without any qualms because she wanted to hurt Lina enough to make her divorce him.
If Laura had made Phil think things like a woman like we have seen so many authors do, it would not have made much justice to his character. I like him as he is. While he is Laura’s mind creation he is also an individual on his own and open for anybody to interpret him in her own way. I hope I making sense. I mean he only shares his feelings and thoughts with Laura as she is his creator but based on his actions we can also make our own judgements to understand him. Like a psychiatrist doesn’t live with you to understand you but he only listen and analyze your personality to pass his judgement on you.
OK we talk later get back soon. I am probably going to work a mock case I have been given till then Bye. Until we meet again.
Tracie I love you if you are reading this just know two girls in a land far away are missing you like crazy❤️❤️❤️❤️
I get it sex with Kim never fulfilled him on that level. it must have been a downgrade for him because if it was that epic Lina reconnect wouldn’t have mattered that much. I mean I have read the starting scene it wasn’t like she had to work really hard to get his attention she only touched his cheek and said I LOVE YOU and the affair was a history.
While my others friends struggled with ideas and questions, I had already in my mind what I was going to say when I would meet her so I presented her with the case of Phil and Lina. She patiently listened to me and then asked me to show the texts between Kim and Phil since she is an expert in psychosexual field what she told me was an eye opener of a sort.
People who use sex as coping mechanism their behaviors aren’t actually about the act of sex itself. The reason they act out is to escape pain, reduce anxiety or mask unpleasant feelings. It can give you temporary fix but not the kind of fulfilment you want that’s why when you feel that real connection with someone where sex is about passion and desires the coping sexual feeling easily fizzle out.
She said in her line of work when she asks most of her patients who later were in long-term passionate relationships what it exactly was like when they were using sex for escapism or rate it out of ten they sort of black out because they don’t remember what it was actually like.
The next interesting thing she said that from a simple minded people perspective things are always one way or the other way but we human are a complex creatures we can never predict what mood we are going to be in few hours from now on.
In the story of Lina and Phil they both are perfectly imperfect characters they both made mistakes. While Phil is done with Kim since his affair was all based on using sex as an escapism a part of Lina’s emotional connection with Nick will always remain.
Not in a capacity where she will have feelings for him but more in a subtle way like a good friend.
Then she told me something interesting about Kim too when I showed her the bonus scene( since we couldn’t go through all the books unfortunately) she said it’s not that difficult to see her insecurity in behaviour that when ever she comes close to Phil she tries to touch him or get close to him because that’s all she ever knew. A person who you have emotional ties with would look you in the eyes baring her pain and soul playing up with your emotions but Kim never had that with Phil. She had no control over his emotions so she did what she thought best. She said look at those text and you will know that she seems more in lust than him. His words choice of is meet, spent the night at your place, lunch, come by your place (indication of escapism) while she is more descriptive in her part.
She said most of the time human problem is that they never questioned themselves. People with Kim mentality never thinks about what they are doing is wrong because in her narcissistic mind Lina was the other woman who had between her and her dream man.
She also told me that I was wrong when I told her that that Kim and Phil were too much alike she said if you look closely you would be able to see that may not be the case while they may have same career driven mind the real Phil was too much like Lina then Kim. He is a great father, provider fiercely protective of his family can you say the same thing about Kim. If Kim was the victim of circumstances where Phil mislead her promising more than I could understand why she behave they we she did but she knew what she was setting up herself for so she only has her self to blame.
So true remember when he is thinking in the swimming naked:
He had a vague memory of one from Kim’s bedroom, taken while he was sleeping. The others, like the one Lina was now talking about, he couldn’t recall.
Expert are experts for a reason they have different perspectives on so many things…. Loved it!
What really stands out to me in those text is the time he offers her. Couple of hours, and an hour…. He says 7:30 but the meeting is at 10:00 see keeping that in mind they also need time to get dressed, commute to reach the office before meeting I think it will leave them with only an hour. That’s why I called them quicky shags.
And to echo back what Simone said about texts when he said lunch she eagerly replies, When, where? And when he tells her at apt noon she didn’t answered him back. I think she was upset that he wouldn’t take her out to for dinner and lunch although she wanted him to have her lunch next day. I hop she farted then…. Kidding 😂
Every text was sent with a clear time frame by Phil side it shows his emotional detachment as Tracie said he never cared whether she was tired or hungry.
I have read that book and I had thought that same thing but you see that book was a miss for since I didn’t enjoy it that much.
We will talk about that later now I just want to focus my all attention on the hunters. After reading the WPF very slowly and reading the bonus scene on this website to compliment them I see now things that I was unable to see upon my first reading.
I have always this problem that when I read a book that touches my heart strings I always love to get everyone perspective on it so I can see if I think the same thing or there is something unique that I didn’t notice but the others did. Being a student at the university has given me kind of distinct advantage where I don’t have to rely upon on my friends only (people of my age) but the certain faculty experts whom I can talk to to get their opinion.
The reason I started rereading these books because recently a very famous relationship advisor and therapist came to our psychology class
Her name is Simone bienne you can google her. The purpose of her class was for us to ask her questions about certain relationships. During her session I requested an extra one on one session with her which she was kind enough to grant me. (God! I want to be like her once I major in psychology)
I recently came across this book called yesterday fingerprints which is about a cheating husband (he cheats because he was sexually abused in childhood and wants to humiliate Ow which he can not do with the h) what really stands out me while the story was very different from WPF since there had been no tension at home or no emotional distance between hubby and wife there things that were kind of similar. Let me put some here to show then we can analyze it.
“we.” “We made love.”
I take a threatening step towards her and despite her chin trembling she holds her ground. “Firstly, there is no ‘we,’” I mock. “Secondly, don’t ever call what we do ‘making love.’ What we do is fuck, nothing more, nothing less.”
“You saw me at the party saw something you wanted. You saw money and prestige, and despite that I wasn’t yours for the taking, despite not even knowing me, you decided to try and take me anyway. When I look at you, I see absolutely nothing I want.”
Unknown number: Luc please talk to me. I know you’re angry that I called last night but please baby, I just need to see you again
“This was taken on Friday night. He spent the night at my house.”
Friday. The night he didn’t come home. There is no mistaking that it is Lucas, intertwined with her while he’s fast asleep on a couch that’s not ours, in a house that’s not ours. He’s dressed, but she’s fully naked.
It’s his number and what I’m reading has nausea clawing at my insides. I swallow, trying to hold it down.
Boo: I’ll be there at seven-thirty
Monica: Hurry, I miss you. I cooked dinner and got your favorite whiskey
Monica: Oh baby you’re in for such a treat when you see what I’m wearing. I hope we at least make it to my room this time before you fuck me. I still get so wet when I think of the last time
Boo: Good.
Good? Good because she gets wet, or good because of what she’s wearing?
On top of that she also has sister who is kind of witty and a mother whose husband cheated on her alot after dying and there is this business partner Eric and when the have dinner he sense some tension between them.
On top of that he still do anal with her after the pregnancy scare and she visits his wife at his own home but won’t kiss her because his lips are only for his wife.
While the plot is different I see so many similarities where do you think she got her inspiration from?
I meant before dying! How can someone cheat after dying LOL…. 😂😂😂 Stupid typos.
She sense some tension 🤦♂️🤦♂️what is wrong with me.
Esra! Let’s explore Lina’s connection with Dr. Nick what about her infidelity on a emotional level with Nick?
Finish the last chapter of WPF then we will talk about it.
You share things with the other person that you haven’t shared with your partner. You confide in the other person about the intimate details of your relationship troubles. You’ve become more detached and emotionally disconnected from your partner. You think about the other person all the time.
I just found this definition from Google and Lina ticks all the boxes. Now I am like Laura what are you? I really want to know her IQ level now, no matter how sensitive and complicated the topic is she is always spot on. Her thoughts process matches to every expert or search we have conducted online. I am in awe of that woman.
Just let me finish then I will explore it more with you.
Esra just a quick reminder Laura said Lina is bridget moynahan look alike. Can you imagine! Now I know why men were obsessed with her. Kim could be Miss universe or whatever but can imagine anyone coming close to that. No!!!
No matter how much beautiful Kim was but she still won’t be able to come close to Lina’s charm and beauty.
I am waiting
OMG!!!!! That’s crazy Zaincruise!!!! Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉💐💐💐💐I believe you I think as long as you have enough dedication you can do anything you want to do. Go ahead achieve your dreams. Be the master of your own life.
But please bully Laura into make it a trilogy but shhhhh don’t tell her that I gave you that idea.
Thanks Esra!
I won’t tell her you said that!
Girls it’s my last year of ACCA. After that I have an offer from a prestigious company…. (3 years have already gone by I can’t believe) I didn’t know that some companies were keeping track of students progression so they could dive in and snatched the brilliant ones. I don’t want to sound too cocky but I have always been very good with numbers more than with words they come effortlessly to me than anything else but stubbornly I never gave it much thought until I read those books.
I know it’s going to sound far fetch and unbelievable but I am going to join that company complete my internship at that prestigious law firm work my ass off earn enough money and turn these gem of books into a movie. Hunters are not going to leave my mind its been three years and still they are as fresh as ever I have read plenty of books I don’t know what is it about them that just keep bringing me back to them.
My life mission from now is to bring Phil live on the screen!!!! It has always been a dream of mine to make a movie because I still have my BA(Hons)film & screen art degree I was perfectly content with and working at my father’s company until I read those books then I wanted to do ACCA so I could complete my corporate law degree.
Just pray for me girls that I achieve what I am set out to do I know it’s not gonna be easy but I will never give up!…. 💪💪
Let me guess….It takes about 2-3 days domestically and 4-5 days if your flying out of country. Since that never happened in Phil case so I would say 5 times maybe. First time when he had that fight with Lina and had thrown the phone against the wall.
When he told Lina he had spent nights at her home 2-3 times I think he was referring to all the time when he had to fly early the next day. Last trip was when he had come home early on Friday when he and Lina had reconnect. I think he did slept with Kim after SB two three time but since his interest in her sexually was waning I don’t think he would have spent that night at her house. Remember he was still working on that case important case when they decided to spent the night at SB and after two weeks of that incident the affair ended. That pic where Lina thought he had danced with Kim and he told Lina he didn’t but he felt happy because he had won the biggest case of his life so I think that pic was taken on the last business trip if I am not wrong. so all in all 4 times if the nights he spent at her house were two times or otherwise 5 times.
I think taking his pic while he was sleeping was a hobby of hers. she did it at her home, at the SB and she must have taken some when he was asleep in the Hotel room but she only sent Lina the pics she thought were most significant and would caused most damage.
I think the same thing! we think a lot alike ,let me dive in some more lets see what other question I could come up with.
You know down below Laura said that Lina decided in the first draft that he had sex with Kim 80 time and I was like what! 😳that can’t be true but then she clarified that it was what Lina thought not what actually was true. I think Lina was in a very vulnerable position so she definitely gonna think worst and she may have derived that number from the duration of the affair. What I personally think is that since most of the the affair happened at the office and some of it on the trips to NY I think the days he slept with Lina would have to be after the days he fucked Kim. Like if he did it with Kim on the Monday he did it with Lina on Tuesday. Doing it with both of them in the same day does not seem plausible to me.
Because they waited after everyone had gone to do their quicky sex at the office apartment then he also had to go home I know it will be late but still he was going back home to Lina not making excuses like he would spend the night at the office because of work.
On my reread again I find it quite Awsome ( and I love he never spend any money on her) that Lina never accuses Phil of the same exact things we have seen in many cheating books. Like waking up in the middle of the night, secretly talking, smelling like other woman, lipsticks stain, scratches, losing interest in the wife, finding the problem with the way she dresses nope Nada. The only thing she found off was changing the password, business trips(even they were not planned) and she never suspected anything about his running group until that nick friend told her means he wouldn’t have spent that much time with Kim after running just a quick blow job or shag and he was back to his home.
I know Laura is going to probably eye roll when reading my comments because we are always going forth and back looking for all the loopholes but is my favorite hobby and no matter how hard I try I can’t stop. 😂
Hey Esra to be more precise I don’t think that men have this capacity to compare when getting physical release is the end goal in their mind. She just have to be attractive enough to get the job done and they are good to go. I have read those books a lot of times before applying for the corporate law studies ( thanks to Phil) and if you dig deep enough and relax you will be able to see what you might have overlook in your anger on your first read. Remember when he is telling Kim that even if Lina decides to leave him he still won’t choose her because he was never interested in her in that way, even if she was pregnant. He may have been attracted to her on physical level but he was never attracted to her personality that’s why I called sex between them emotionless shags LOL. And even then the physical part only came when he felt rejected by Lina the only woman he truly ever wanted. She has been trying to get his attention for months and he didn’t even knew she existed until he did and even then he still wasn’t that interested to her on personal level. Those business trips were never planned but were a necessity he just chose her as an assistance during them but he never planned them himself thinking he could spend time with her in another city. No that was never the case.
To answer your second question I think Laura wrote these book using a technique which is called third person limited omniscient if I remember correctly from my Eng lit class at school. Where the books are told in third person limited mostly but the the writer keep the authorial persona to give you the little extra information without character addressing it directly. Our teacher had given us a passage from the crime fiction based on true events where a good looking man used to lure girl with his charming personality to rape them. It read like this; “When he came towards Ellison his beautiful lips stretched into a charming smile that could make any young girl heart flutter in her chest but all she could see was the demon who was going to rape her and then kill her” I am a little off the mark here but you get the gist so when Phil thought that all he saw was the woman…..” it was not he who thought she looked more like a model than an attorney it was Laura giving us extra information about her appearance before getting into Phil head and what he thought of her. Now the scent part was his thinking because again as I said he needed to have a certain level of superficial attraction to continue the affair otherwise it wouldn’t have worked but now it repulse him. kim is the epitome of his failure he feels torture just looking at her because she reminds him of that low time in his life. But all in all I was glad that he never blame Kim for the fling because then it would have seem like it was kim fault for being so tempting and he couldn’t just resist.
And for your third question I think she knew he was not all that into her when he only fucked her instead of worshipping her body like her previous lovers(or more like he worshipped Lina) she secretly wanted him to because while Phil wanted physical release she wanted him so it must have alert her in some way even when the affair was new. she wanted to trap Phil and show it was he who pursued her but if you look at the texts I think they started from late march means she must have started from the very first text he sent her. Truthfully I think a bit of push and pull must have happened on Phil side in February until he finally found himself falling down that rabbit hole hitting the rock bottom. I know Laura has been really patient answering all of these question again and again and over again that’s why I won’t bother her with this because she wanted us to focus on the aftermath and a couple surviving infidelity but we love going back and forth like crazy. So to answer your last question sure they sometime did it before a meeting in the morning or lunch(a blow job) and then after everyone was gone but I don’t think he took her three time simultaneously like did with Lina because he was never that desperate for her ever and in NY they were working all the day and when they did it I think he fell asleep after that since he has to be tired and needed his sleep remember the picture at her home. She must have thought that her lips service was the greatest thing since the slice bread because she used that trick two time in desperation when he was asleep at the SB and in the break up scene to lure him back sensing his disinterest and had the audacity to act really surprise when refused her. In her narcissist mind she must have thought that he should be addict to her lips service by now.
I type this response really fast so if you find any spelling error correct on your own. LOL
Thanks hon! Now I see… I mean I already have seen these things but I love getting them in to it from every different angles. I love hunters to death. How many times do you think he had gone on those business trip for it to be a frequent?
Ok girls I have this guy in my class who is really intelligent but at the same time he is also a bit of a manwhore and gentleman . He is also very good looking. Recently we both were assigned for the mock case together and while preparing for it we became fast friends (didn’t see that coming) and have been inseparable ever since. He is a good guy but there is this one problem in him that he sleeps around a lot. 🙄 Since Hunters have always been in the back of my mind and I have this tendency to talk about them sporadically with all my friends, one day while we both were having lunch I blurted out ‘what is the difference between fucking and love making?’ God! I was so mortified when he looked at me with his mouth hanging open(but I still hold my ground because I wanted to get a guy perspective on that one so badly, especially one who was that experienced) but once the initial shock wore off and I explained myself more articulately he told me this.
‘Fucking is all about you but making love is more like about your partner.’ When you are fucking someone your main goal is reaching toward climax but when you are making love you want to prolong and enjoy every part of it.
You do not necessarily bother with foreplay or afterplay when it’s for physical gratification, just contact of genitals matters. Whereas love making is a whole different process and it continues even after you have climax but fucking stop the moment you have found your release.
One interesting thing he told me during our conversation that most of the the time when when you want to fuck your partner you love(to keep up with variety) you end up making love to them because the lines between these two starts to blur sometimes you want to go fast and hard and sometimes you want to take it slow. Making love is like a bit of everything, you can spice it up according to you and your partner desires and needs. Women get confused because men usually don’t use the word fuck when they are are with someone they care about have deep connection with even when they are going hard and fast at it because it cheapen what they have unless you are into dirty talk during sex.
But that’s not the case with fucking someone you are not emotionally connected to then you just wants to orgasm. That’s why it is easy to fuck because you can do it with anybody but you can’t make love to everybody there has to be an emotional connection to do it.
I also remember that I had read this in a survey in cosmopolitan magazine where a large percentage of men had claimed to prefer the missionary position while having sex with someone they love because they want to look at their partner face and make that emotional connection but prefer doggy style when they are fucking someone without any emotion involved because then they aren’t concerned about anything just their climax.
When I had read WPF first time I was really angry at Phil for saying that I only fucked her but I only ever made love to you because then I had this narrow perspective about fuck VS love making.
it only made me think now that how cleverly and beautifully Laura had written these two books. Most of the times I have seen female writers writing about male heroes with females qualities in them to make them more accessible and acceptable to readers but after taking to my male friend it’s like Laura had literally made her self step into a male shoe to write about Phil. Now I get why Phil said what he said. She is amazing!!!!!!
Sorry girls for the rant and frequent usage of F word but I had clear that up. Love you all 😘😘
LOL! I would have love to see the look on his face when you said that and I agree because I did the same thing with my all male friends. Laura did say she talked to a lot of men during the writing and she is amazing like that. I don’t know if we have talked about it previously or not but now reading about a man perspective I understand things more clearly. Since we read a lot of Romance books and most of the time writers makes the male leads to chose the word fuck with the female leads to keep it consistent with their dark broody assholish self when they are having explosive SEX where he can’t get enough of her particularly, so I had presumably assumed that he meant the same thing and I was absolutely gutted but now I know better. As Tracie said she was insignificant and he wasn’t worried about her comforts. Laura also said the same thing about him not looking into her eyes which only reinforces the fact that how thoroughly she researched before writing that book.
Hi Girls…I’m here….So glad you girls still have the Hunters on your mind. I to this day read books and something strikes me on how this or that situation could fit with the Hunters. Laura created an amazing couple that keeps holding on to us and our emotions.
Zaincruise I loved your insight on the dynamics of being involved in a complex legal battle. Knowing Phil and his need for doing his absolute best I can see where he used Kim as a tool to win a case and he wouldn’t have worried about her comforts the way he would of Lina’s. Like has she eaten or is she tired. Kim had to keep pace at work.
Esra so true on Kim being accommodating toward Phil. I noticed that during the break up scene…You want Scotch a Blow Job???? But all her accommodations and hard work could not outshine or override his connection to Lina. She was his world, she tethered him to his life as he knew it and without her he was lost.
GOD! It’s good to have you back Tracie. You are the best of best. I hope everything is alright on your end and you keep stay active on this blog because you have helped us a lot during the time when Laura was busy. I still remember hunting down your comments on this blog when I had first read those books because you always been spot on with your analysis. You are a true gem! I hope you always keep shining like that.
OMG!!!! The life of this blog is back. Was missing you too damn much Tracie. Hope you will keep coming back since I can’t seem to shut up where hunters are concerned and I hope you will be able to persuade Laura to start writing again. Miss her writing so damn much. Four books aren’t enough for me I need tons of them.
You dolls are good for my ego…Lol. I’m glad to see you girls are finally getting a break and can come back and contemplate the Hunters again. They are definitely the best. Esra Laura is so busy right now with a full time job. But I’m sure when we least expect it she will surprise us all with another great book of love and life. I’ll check the blog daily and see what you babes are up too! Keep those comments coming I love reading your thoughts.
Hahahaha we would never stop. I love you because out of all of us you were the only one who was able to see past the hard shell of Phil. You saw his hurt and his pain hidden beneath his anger and make us see the man he truly was and is. Love you for that.
While rereading WPF I just came to this interesting realization about Kim that despite her narcissist behavior was really accommodating toward Phil and wasn’t demanding much in return. In the other cheating books that I have read the OW always expect a certain level of commitment from the other participant. Sure she wanted to monopolize his time may have texted him while he was home or stuff like that but despite being so sure in her abilities she really notch down her narcissist behavior for him. Don’t get me wrong I still hate her but I think the poor woman was trying really hard to not to let herself slip up and make him alert to her true intentions. But what I wonder is what cause this behavior? It could be during the early stages she may have tried to brought Lina up in a conversation very cautiously, sympathizing with him so she can understand his true feelings toward his wife but was badly snubbed by Phil letting her know he would never discuss Lina with her. And I know a lot of people misunderstand me when I say this that Phil was telling the truth when he called her easy to fuck not because he was berating her or calling her a loose woman, she was just that easy without any expectation of any sort she literally made it too easy for him. One more thing I noticed in her behavior during the affair that she was trying really hard to make the affair more than physical subtly hoping he would follow suit. It was she who suggested the bar near the hotel, it was she who wanted him to meet her friends and likewise it was she who had gifted him the pink tie(secretly wishing he bought sexy lingerie for her, remember when she secretly put that receipt in his pockets I saw right through her it must have been one of her fantasy)when Phil texted her about lunch she instantly perked up with ‘where?’. While many of the reader were focused on Phil wearing that pink tie for me it symbolizes the fact how little she knew about the real Phil and personally it really doesn’t bother me now because Phil is a very professional man he HAD TO wear it he couldn’t care less about her choosing the right color because he refused to share himself to her on a personal level and subsequently he wasn’t really interested in her personal life either. While it may have bothered me before but it doesn’t now about Phil attraction/liking kim tbh in order to numb his feeling of his failure the pill has to be affected enough to work and I think he liked her as a Professor would like his brilliant student. She was intelligent so she must have been a great help to him during the case they both were working on. I can see her rewording his compliment in her mind as a declaration of love. One more thing I found very odd was the pictures thing. They were taking during the affair( although I personally think that watching Phil sleep was favorite hobby of her! creepy) I am sure she was dying to show them to Phil to make him see how beautiful they look together but she didn’t because again she knew Phil was not her usual man and her magic wasn’t working on him, if he knew their affair wasn’t as discreet as he believed he might end it.
One more thing I would like to add here sometimes most of the readers wish that Phil should not have cheated on Lina but if that would have been the case do you think we would have the story we love so much and is so dear to our hearts. No! I love that Laura brought him to life. Zaincruise! I know you are on the break and since you are the only person whose number I personally I have come here lets enjoy discussing about our couple. I just hope that Laura doesn’t kick me out. LOL
LOL😂 I hope she doesn’t kick us out of her class. She must be tired of us right now.
Since you are rereading the stories I would also put my two cents here. Putting aside the STD issue here we all know that Phil was also having sex with Lina during the affair and I know all lot of girls here find it repulsive but I have always sense that there was more to it. As according to Lina it had been 3 weeks means he must be also pretty active with Lina during the affair minus the time he was on business trips or those three weeks. He could have gotten plenty of easy sex from Kim then why he was reaching out to Lina? who must have rejected him sometime because she simply wasn’t in the mood after an argument. I know she is his wife and I know he wants her but why if he was getting the easy sex with no strings attached 🤔 during the fog situation?
As far as I am concerned and nobody have to agree with me since it is my personal opinion I believe that he was desperately seeking to reconnect with Lina and wanted her to love him as she did before since he believed that she didn’t anymore and every failed attempts made him lose control which explain why SB was a turning point for him because it reminded him what he had and that was the time when sex with Kim started to lose its appeal he may have thought about meeting her that Saturday but he still came early and he still didn’t text her back when he could of. I am not blaming Lina she is my favorite heroine but the barrier was put up by Lina not Phil since she had emotionally withdrawn herself from him(not on purpose though) and all she had to do was reassure him that she loved him and affair died a sudden death.
Where is Berenice and Tracie? I wish they would get back here I want to enjoy my small break.
I agree! it also explain why he sought Kim because Lina rejection heightened his sense of failure and he needed physical gratification to feel himself in control. Lina emotional withdrawal happened way before the affair even started and at that point in his life he was feeling quite low and he made a very bad choice due to lapse in judgement.
Yeah I know but you see since I am studying the Law the one thing I find most fascinating here realistically speaking, which I also kind of get from the comments down below and lots of reader find problems with is the fact that what he was thinking sleeping with Kim if loved Lina so damn much, the answer is simple he was not thinking of anything because he wouldn’t have the time to think while working on a very important case. In most of the professions you might chuck out your books after you have completed them or you may need them for time to time but not as extensively as you do in Law. whenever a case comes up you have to keep revisiting those book to see acts, the verdicts to see if there was any change in the law in recent years and that is only a part of it so yeah it is a lot of work that can keep you up all night, no matter how good you are you have to prepare and give your best at the court so when the judge or jury ask you something you don’t falter in your speech and show them your weakness(they live for those moments they are sadists like that LOL). I think that’s what happened here he never had the time to question anything which would help him to see the error of his ways. And I think that was why he never question Kim motives and was able to compartmentalize so easily because she was not on his mind like that during that time.
hope you are enjoy your reading I wish I could do it to but I know if I read them again I would become obsessed and since Laura haven’t written in a very long time I would have the massive book hang over and I won’t able to read my course book again.
I know God! The fat books I have seen laying around your apartment makes me wonder how could someone willingly live with them. I miss Berenice and Tracie but I think they haven’t been active here since December. Seem like it’s only you and mean. I just Hope that Laura absences means that she is writing a new novel for us.
Remember it’s always the opinion of the people we love most matters. He was Ace attorney in the courtroom but back at home he just wanted to be Lina’s man. 😉😘
I know! but you know what crazy things is we have it’s been three years approximately since we read those books and the funny thing is that we are still hung up on these two. I have read plenty of books but never ever have been so hung up on any of them.
I will keep pop in time by time to give my insight and update about Hunters! Talking about them is fav hobby of mine. I just simply can’t get enough of them.
Ok guys I know it’s bee a while but I am planning to read AWPF&SN again! you know to kick start class of 2023. I love Laura’s writing so much but I am also a little miffed with her she said she was going to publish her new novel and I like a crazy woman keep refreshing her Goodreads page to see if she has published it but nothing new is happening there, not even a teaser. I even thought that something was wrong with my internet connection and texted zaincrusie 3:00 am, waking her up literally yelling that Laura must have published her new novel only I was the one who couldn’t see it because something was wrong with my connection. I know how busy Laura must be but please Laura have some mercy on us. Until then I will keep reading the books she already has published until I have every single line memorized.
Hi everyone and the Hunters,
Merry Christmas to all of you, and happy holidays!
🎄🎄🎄
Happy New Year Berenice and all you Hunter fans!
Happy New Year to you too, Tracie!
May our little fandom keep blooming in 2023!!
Hi Laura and the Gang!
Thought of you guys today because my daughter’s (in college now) new obsession is watching the men’s lacrosse games at her school. I think it’s mainly an east coast sport so she never attended a game before. She asked me the other day where she’s been all these years and if I knew how cute the players are! So I immediately thought of Logan🤣😭. They are playing against Penn this weekend …I trust you are keeping the Hunters well and so is everyone here. Miss you and hope you are still writing. Can you finish the football player one and include an evil ow in it?🤣.
Had some family drama so I haven’t been able to read much at all in months.
I would love to hear WPF and SN in audio.
Are there any plans to have them professionally recommended?
Hi Laura,
Love all your books! Are you planning to publish a new novel anytime soon?
Also, in WPF did you consider adding the topic of how Lina reacts to knowing Phil was having unprotected sex and the health implications for her? I just feel that is a big topic that was not mentioned…
Thank you! Hope we can read more of your books :)!
Hi Melissa — Thank you! The unprotected subject didn’t make the book. I just think it would have been unrealistic for him to use protection the first time considering it wasn’t planned. And as awful as it was, I felt it was more realistic. As far as discussing, the story was more about healing. There was so much negativity, I just left that conversation out.
As far as a new novel, I’m working on it but don’t have a date 🙂
Just one quick question. When Kim filed the paperwork to move back to NY was she making a last ditch effort to get Phil to chose her and Liam or had she finally given up on Phil ever leaving Lina?
Hi Deb, Kim had given up and realized her need to shine couldn’t happen in the burbs. She didn’t want Liam, he was a pawn in the scheme to get Phil. Getting pregnant was the Hail Mary to take Phil from Lina and it didn’t work.
Thanks Tracie I had wondered when Kim realized how much Phil loved Liam that she might have been trying to use him again to see how Phil would react to not being able to see Liam whenever he wanted. Maybe she was hoping Phil would say “you can’t take him away from me “ and she would say “ we’re a package deal” and in her warped mind she envisioned him saying “ anything to keep Liam in Baltimore “. If that was the case she was sorely disappointed.
Deb Kim never knew Phil’s feeling toward Liam. Chapters 35 and 37 prove that when she told him both times he didn’t want Liam full time anymore than she did.
Hi Tracie! I think at this point you know the Hunters better than I do! Miss you — Laura
Never Doll…I was just blessed enough to tag along with you on your journey of literary brilliance we know as the Hunters.
Love and miss you sweet girl!
Zaincruise!!
Likewise! This couple is always at the back of my mind. 😉
I need to get this out of my chest. Remember in the previous post, You, Esra and I were arguing about the nature of Emotional Affair(EA) of Lina?? I recently came across a supporting group on social media!! People who got cheated on formed some platforms to help each other during difficult times (it’s anonymously for obvious reason. I was a lurker for a while, interested in reading people’s blogging on the platform (it’s really more like diary entries for them to record and reflect, to be there for themselves and each other.
I was dumbfounded that my understanding of EA was where the problem at in our argument over Lina and Nick. Obviously due to the lack of experience in committed, long-term relationship, I didn’t realise that if partner/spouse confided to, had a companionship with or seek comfort/solace/console from the OW/OM, these should be counted as EA. It might look beautiful, compassionate and empathetic or even pure, but the core of it was EA, needless to mention that some EA were driven solely by carnal attraction and was EA only because the lack of opportunity to get physical.
Before I read about what all those betrayed people were going thru, I had this narrow-minded definition that only when they were sexting, confessed love/fondness to each other clearly and established a lover relationship behind their spouses’ back without only physical acts, then it’s EA. Obviously, EA’s definition is much broader than I realised, and without realising the various types of them, I was undermining what Phil was going through!! I got this book recommendation: Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It demystified the Emotional Phase of an affair.
All said, I like that Phil didn’t shift blame to Lina as he shouldn’t be (it would compromise his redeem-ability). Tons of cheating spouses shifted blames to spouses as if “valid” down moments in marriages were some kind hall-pass to their full blown affair. I am appalled how many relationship writers and “specialists” promoted this narrative that the betrayed wife/husband was to blame in that they weren’t perfect “all the time” or weren’t in the spousal mode one hundred percent, so it’s understandable that the cheating spouses cheated and the betrayed should work on themselves to be better spouses for the cheaters, making sure this won’t happen again!! How insane is this!! Thankfully, Phil was nothing like that and Lina was also clear-minded and strong enough to stick to her ground. I am happy that Phil grew enough to know how to handle difficult times (Logan) and his own feelings (still has tough guy mentality but is becoming a better version of himself~😌
I know it’s been a while since I have commented on the blog but I always check it whenever I have free time because I love it so damn much and it also had made such a huge impact on my life somehow. On the other day on Goodreads, a very dear friend of mine had asked me a question about Phil using sex to escape and somehow had also hinted that sex must have turned so boring with Lina that he prefer to have it with Kim. And thinks one of the main reasons for the continuation of the affair was because he had lost his attraction toward lina at that time.
Since I know you also read this blog so I am putting my answer here and I will say that I disagree with your point of view. Lina had rejected Phil many times and as we had discussed that lina would not act like a loving adoring wife after an argument so I think as a result their sex life suffered which is just not only sex between lina and Phil but a part of their deep connection. They both were dealing with some heavy stuff. I think( and you don’t have to agree) the main reason he was having sex with kim because he was escaping his sense of failure not because he was enjoying it so damn much by which I did not mean it was mechanical but there was a reason behind it, although it doesn’t justify his actions.
In my opinion, his sex with Kim was more of a quickie sort of version than the long night-to-day type of sessions. I can vouch for it because now since I am studying law I know how much time you have to spend on every single tiny itsy bitsy detail while preparing for a case.
Lina had spoiled Phil so much that he could only share his Lina’s attention to some extent even with his own kids, he was such a mean child when it came to Lina. So sex with Lina became harder in my opinion because it had heightened his sense of failure since she was not instigating it. Remember that part when Lina told him ‘I love you he was like ‘do you?’ like he couldn’t believe she was still in love with him. Her emotional withdrawal had turned him into a cold bitter man.
Lina is a heroine I have always admired because she was so damn cute and innocent. She didn’t know the power she had over Phil. She always acted so selflessly never manipulated her power. She could have made him choose and could have put him in a difficult situation but she didn’t and I think it takes courage to do that.
And in the end, I would say there is no team Phil and team Lina for me because for me they both are part of the same team. You automatically fall in love with one while choosing the other. For me, there is no Phil without lina and no lina without phil. Love them so damn much. They would invade my brain even when I am working on something important. Lol.
Hope you would have gotten the answer to your questions. And I repeat these are my opinion no one can change it but you don’t have to agree and I won’t force you.
Love you Laura and I am so thankful to you that you have given us this blog and a story that won’t just go away.
Tracie you are a very vital part of the blog love your comments you keep this blog alive girl.
Bernice your comment always surprise me with their depth and deep analysis are you sure you were not a psychologist in your other life? Lol
Until we meet again…. These studies are taking their toll on me.
Hi Zaincruise so happy to hear from you. I personally love you explanations and I’m proud of you for accomplishing so much with your studies. I agree with your opinion. Phil was definitely not bored with Lina, he was more aggravated and couldn’t get a handle on his home life. The only place he had balance and control was at work. Kim was a distraction that gave him physical gratification. She gladly catered to his every work and physical need. However, Phil may have been pleased or even appreciative of Kim’s actions; however, he never had any emotional ties tethering any part of his heart or future to her in anyway. As Phil said Liam was his only duty where Kim was concerned. Lina strikes me as a very loving sexual partner. Phil didn’t get bored with Lina, he felt she didn’t want him not the other way around.
Hi all, I hope everyone is well and hanging tough.
I love this blog and Tracie especially for responding to so many questions, some of them asked and answered previously. Things have been so crazy lately, I can certainly use some escaping 😉. This blog is awesome and I find myself gravitating to it when looking to escape. Zaincruse and Berenice, thanks for getting in here with your thoughts and comment. Some of us, took a bit of a break after being active a couple years ago.
In the infidelity books I have read, the wife gets extremely angry after finding out about the affair and ask the man to leave. Do you think Lina asked Phil to leave immediately after finding out about the affair 🤔.
Also, I have always when does the Steamboat vacation home rears its head again. Is it when Phil decides to sell it or when Logan says something about. He knew Phil took Kim there.
What I would give to read the first book Laura wrote about Phil and Lina. I love the Hunters.
Hi Holley you can get WPF on Amazon. To answer your questions no Lina didn’t ask Phil to leave immediately. It wasn’t until Kim sent her the pictures of them together on her birthday. The pictures had one of Phil at Steamboat and that’s when she knew Kim had been in her vacation home. Phil left the day after Lina’s birthday in October. So they were together from late may to middle of October after Lina found out about the affair.
Holley I don’t think Phil ever realized that Logan knew that he took Kim to Steamboat. That was Adele and Lina discussing the picture in WPF and Logan overheard them. Steamboat reared it’s head again in SN in the picture scene between Phil and Lina.
Hi Tracie,
Thanks again for answering. In my previous post, I meant I want to read “The Affair”, I think that is what WPF was called when Laura first wrote it. Per Laura, she rewrote it as WPF after refusing to have Phil and Lina divorce. I read Swimming Naked first then went back and read WPF. By reading the books in reverse order, I was more in awe of Lina’s ability to forgive Phil.
Hi Holley! No, Lina doesn’t ask Phil to leave — if you remember from WPF, she questions her reaction to the news with Nick, when discussing finding out about the affair.
Hi Laura,
Thank you! I hope you are well. I miss Phil and Lina🙂.
I was told it’s called “hysterical bonding” lol. Laura, seriously, your book is sooo well researched and you delivered them masterfully. every small detail is inferential. It effortlessly checked all the boxes of affair recovery.
thank you, Berenice 😘
You know I agree Tracie! Phil was never bored with Lina
Dear Laura and the all the ladies,
I just discovered that somewhere in SN our dearest Nick dated Kathy Paige and that she was supposed to moved in with him. We are talking about THE Kathy Paige that was Joseph’s fiance in “When I saw you”. That could be absolutely great, because she was really nice in this book. However, in “When I saw you”, when she met Joseph at the museum she anounced that she was engaged to someone (could it have been Nick!?), and sounded bitter, and as if she still considers the breakup with Joseph something she mourns. And I think, whoever wins Nick should know they are won big time. Nick should be no one’s second choice.
Ok, that was my latest revelation. In desperate need for a new book 😃
Hi Tami,
I think the timeline is after she broke off with Joseph, Nick and Kathy met and clicked!!! The original idea to put Kathy and Nick together, I believe, was from Janet?? As everyone on this blog know, Janet likes them getting together and burning their nights by talking about art, lol. And Laura agreed with the pairing. So it was put in the SN!! I think there’s discussions here and there on the past blog entries. You could check them out~ if there’s a Nick book, Kathy would be the Heroine, and Laura confirmed it the last time I asked her😉
Forgot to say, that guy Kathy mentioned was before Nick, I think. I remembered that Janet thought Kathy is such a good match for Nick and her having Nick to start over is a REAL new chapter for her HEA (Nick’s too).
Seriously, how could anyone still pine for their EX when they have Nick???? Lol. (Well, except Lina)
Berenice, (I hope you see this reply, there was no option to reply directly to your message)
Thank you!!! Am I happy to hear this, I needed a HEA for Nick. Such a charming man when he wants to be. Yes, he definitely crossed ethical lines with Lina, but that’s the beauty of being a human being. And to think that this group was involved in designing the HEA- unbelievable!
Hi Tami!
Yes, you are correct. In When I Saw You — Kathy met with Joseph after she was engaged. In my mind, that marriage never happened. She ended up meeting Nick and having her own HEA 🙂
I know that a lot of cheating spouses actually traded down when conducting their affairs. They weren’t after “quality”. It’s all about “having it”. For there’s something wrong or broken inside of themselves, they had some makeshift events happen to distract them from their life problems. It’s not that Kim’s objectively less beautiful or less sexy. It’s more that [To Phil], Kim was less in all dimensions, comparing with the love of his life, Lina. But no matter how lesser Kim was to him, he was using Kim’s availability anyway? He had to eat, right?😂. The 4 months was more about his own selfishness (flaws): he needed to feel something such as he was still important, he was in control/feeling powerful and his own confidence mattered (masculinity, manhood, his sexuality etc etc). I know it sounds cliche, even lame. But it fits his confession that he was weak, selfish and not thinking. After reading so many people’s stories about betray, somehow Phil’s flaw made him incredibly humane to me. I consider myself grew a bit and I caught a glimpse of what his flaws really reify. I remember one wayward wife (her affair was also four months ish) said that her affair did not stop at ONS because in her affair fog mind, the affair and affair partner (AP) were something she reckoned/imagined completely different to what they actually were (decent, discreet, in her term and made her feel powerful). Because of that, she felt no problem to carry on it “effortlessly” and it was never about her husband and her love to her husband. She never thought about there’s a “competition” between her AP and her husband. I knew that Laura used the phrase “wall of resistance”. I think for Phil, it might also be “boundary”. When a drunken mistake (ONS) broke his boundary, sleeping with Kim became so easy, utterly manageable, and seemingly inconsequential. Like all men with power, he could, so he did (he picked up a new chore, no gain, no loss, no harm. No mental gymnastics needed preparing before acting on. So why not? Until, wham, everything derailed and his fog lifted.
Hi Berenice – I agree about the boundary — crossing it the first time is the most significant.
Zaincruise! So great to hear from you. I hope school is going well. I always love your analysis on this family, which is still dear to my heart! And I agree — it is team Hunter, not team Phil or team Lina.
Hi girls!
I have this thought!! I mean, I thought about this at times when I reread WPF! In the chapter that Kimzilla sent Lina those awful screenshots, Lina was lying on the bed, unwilling to talk to Phil when he tried to chat with her. Phil immediately realised that it’s Kim or something Kim did that upset Lina. He went to Lina’s purse and asked frantically about what did Kim do. I found that very [adorable].
We all know Phil does not care about other people or what they think/feel inwardly. I know Laura you said once that Kim warned Phil that she had vivid documentation of them together, and had plans to upset his wife with those “evidence”. Still, he was soooo INTUITIVE to the context Lina was in and to what Lina was feeling!! I don’t think example like this is all about their occult connection. It’s more like Phil put effort to feel, care about and make sense of ONLY Lina. I think that if Lina is in a crowded room and Phil enters the room, he would immediately find her and study her mood, how she looks and how she feels, happy or annoyed or excited etc etc. It’s the same in that deleted scene, when they were attending the wedding, he returned from running and Lina avoided talking to him after shower. He immediately sensed that she was upset, knew something was wrong and insisted Lina to talk to him. I think our Phil graduated with Magna cum laude from University of Lina😂. I may over interpret the situation~but it’s very sweet to think this way😮💨
Spot on, Berenice! You know my Phil 🙂
I think that’s why my Phil is so swoon worthy to me and why he is my favorite hero Berenice. He feels Lina to the depths of his soul.
Laura
I was rereading AWPF and wondered did your original book the Affair have the same ending of Lina and Phil at her mom and dad’s wedding or was it where Lina found the pink tie? Did you ever consider an ending where Lina and Phil did not end up together? I believe I read somewhere in your blog that your editor wanted Lina to go through with the divorce. Just wondering if you ever considered that ending while writing or were you always 100% Team Phil?
Thanks
Hi Deb Happy 4Th….Laura may have to correct me; however, I kind of recall a conversation where Laura’s editor wanted Lina to end up with Nick and Laura said absolutely not. So Laura pretty much rewrote the entire story and it got a new name, but the ending she wanted.
Yes, Tracie is correct. I wanted to write a story where the couple survived the infidelity.
Site is fixed. An update caused comment button to disappear — sorry for the inconvenience.
Hi Laura!
I just watched this and thought of you. Phil looks pretty good with salt and pepper streaks. 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ggmiePQa3U
Janet,
Thanks for sharing!
Now I am starting to picture Phil around this age and Logan in his late 20s playing lacrosse with a preteen Liam on the beach during a week-long vacation.
Laura, I finished Whitney, My Love (finally)! I liked it! The writing, the plot, everything is a gem. But I must say that your Phil still topped my list of Heroes (maybe with Vaughn beside him😌). Clayton is a bit less interesting than them and too juvenile. Phil and Vaughn are all-round Heroes!
Agreed! Heroes have changed SO much in the last three decades.
Hi,
If you are looking for a novel with a jerk H with lots of betrayel, then Jackie and Maria, by Gill Paul, definitely is the one. There is so much angst that I simmered. It is the “love” triangle between Onassis, Jackie Kennedey and Maria Callas. The story is very interesting, it also captures the era and the research behind it is good. If you accept the story as it is told in the book, it is a heart wrenching story with true love. The problem is that it is based on a true story and when you read elsewhere about Onassis’ attitude towards Maria it is horrible, much worse than described in the book. I felt that the author tried to make Onassis less cruel and approachable. Yet, even in the book he is a narcissist jerk. I read it in a few hours, and couldn’t stop discussing it with whoever was willing (opera lovers or older people that heard of those figures in real time like my mom). But I will never read it again, I cannot go through this torture twice.
We are a very unique group of readers. We do want betrayel, but for us the betrayel serves only as a mean for our hero to show his undying love to our heroine. There is this fine balance, that in Bygones, by Lavyrle Spencer, is not balanced enough, but in SN is just right. So again, I am in awe that Laura wrote such wonderful stories, giving us this never ending gift 💜
Hi Tami,
Omg, Maria! that soprano. I am also into RPS(Real person slash😮💨!! Funny that I always regard her as a phase, as many RPS ships I shipped thru the years had soprano as mistress (fall in lust/passionate intelligence of sorts)
Speaking of the Onassis, I was more into his daughter Christina. I am a huge sucker for historical, intense, boundary-pushing father/daughter dynamic (not in a weird way though. Especially, his heir, Christina’s beloved elder brother Alexander died so suddenly and tragically. The dynamic of the three of them…always a fanfic idea of mine. powerful father, Apollo-like older brother and the shadowed daughter. Like I mentioned before on the blog, same goes to Sally Hemings by Barbara Chase-Riboud. Jefferson was such a complex Hero(if you could call him that) in the book, brainy, contradicted, grandeur narcissistic with ultimate elegant masculinity (French dandyism). The only fiction H I could compare with was Avon in The Old Shades by Georgette Heyer. Georgette wove such a fine piece that balanced dandyism, haughtiness and elegant masculinity perfectly.
H Berenice,
Can you remind me- who is Vaughn? I know I read him but I can’t remember which book he’s from? Clayton is from Whitney, right?
J,
Vaughn is the Hero from Sarra Manning’s Unsticky! Laura recommended the book. Vaughn is too unique. I mean, his domineering isn’t paled a bit by his “high maintenance”. That’s very difficult to pull off and Sarra Manning somehow managed to do that. I would say Vaughn in his Hero category is more refined than “Mr Darcy” (I know this assertion is bold, lol).
Yes, Clayton is from Whitney! He is likeable, ticked most boxes but sometimes very predicable and frustratingly juvenile, and I am not even talking about swoonworthy “man-child” behaviours that a lot of alphas have.
I actually wanted to say Gray from Linda Howard’s After The Night as well. But that book is too popular (It’s LH after all!!). Phil and LH’s Heroes sends out similar intensity. I am rooting for our Phil!
Ahh yes. How could I forget Unsticky? We love mean jerks. 😂. I agree with you 💯 re LH heroes and Laura’s- they are similar totally comparable. I think my faves are the heroes from Heartbreaker and Diamond Bay.
Hi Janet and Laura,
If you are talking about media, then I have a request. Please add an audio version for the books. For addicts like me, who read and re-read 100 times just to have another take of a certain situation, it could be great to listen to the favorite stories on the way to work or where ever.
I just reread A sense of belonging (such a wonderful book!) and discovered yet so many hidden jems inside. It could be just wonderful to be imersed in the story during driving. And if it is not relevant to previous novels, then for the new one please 🙏(indeed, when will we read about this doctor???? The waiting is hard).
Yes, audio seems to be the thing. It certainly makes long drives more tolerable.
Hi Tami,
Can you imagine listening to Phil from your car??! Oh my Lord! And Tony and Casey’s love scenes cannot be on audio. Seriously too hot for me to handle during a run to the grocery store. hahaha
Hi Janet,
Actually, Phill on my way to work might just be the incentive to go out, LOL. And Tony, definitly! Without any interuption from anyone at home.
By the way, in this best hero debate Phill, Clayton or Vaughn, I would like to present another candidate: Tony. Yes, he is not in the category of jerks, as he is the opposite of it. But! he has this internal compass, yet, such a superb alpha. The way he succumbs to Casey, just great. Absolutely against his will.
Just to say that until last week Phill was my favorite hero, in any category. But, after re-reading “a sense of belonging”, it is Tony. Perhaps Phill will return to his natural position after a reread of SN and WPF:)
You are funny!
I like brainiacs the best so Joseph and Nick for me. Heehee
Lol, reread definitely helps to reshuffle my list of favourite Heroes.
I love heroes being mean and brainy. (The reason I cannot get over Vaughn.😮💨
Casey made Tony’s wall of resistance collapse. The progress was so endearing. (he is too good for me;-).
Nick hasn’t had his own book yet. My imagination of Nick remains out of bounds. Are we sure that Kathy is his endgame? Like Laura said, Nick needs a h to waken his inner alpha.😉 I feel that Nick and Joseph have that undercurrent of dominance simmering below their high cerebrality~whew, that’s hot~
Berenice,
💯 on everything you said. Brainy alphas are the best! Of course Kathy is Nicks endgame! They are perfect for each other and she has the brains and the beauty to keep Nick on his toes right?
Have you read anything that stayed with you recently? I haven’t read any new ones in awhile ..
J,
Nothing special, really. read some okay m/m romances and some dark romances which were HUGE disappointments.The one that sorta stayed with me was actually the lighthearted one. The Bad Guy by Celia Aaron. H reminds me of Benedict Cumberbatch’s Sherlock. Remember his line “I am a high-functioning sociopath”？That’s it. H was supposed to be a “psychopath” but his portrait in the book was just a brainy sexy Hero who had difficult in empathy.
Kingdom Fall by A. Zavarelli was also an interesting read. A bit like Sweet temptation both with some heavy-hearted twists.
I am currently reading Pretty Face by Lucy Parker(recommended by friends from bookclub, everyone was hyped about it. Age-gap, English man, so it’s supposed to have an intellectual H with a young tutee (h). I will give updates when I finish:)
Reading Pretty Face — first romance that’s kept my interest in quite some time — thanks Berenice!
ooh, I don’t mind high functioning sociopaths at all. I will def check that one out. Let me know if you like the Lucy Parker. I never heard of the author! I remember looking at your feed when we became friends on GR. Your interests are across the board and I put many on my list but haven’t gotten to any yet.
LOL yes, his looks don’t wane with age!
I think Jon looks better now than before.
Also, B changed her mind and is following in Casey’s footsteps. She is happier with this decision. I too am rereading Sense of Belonging now.
I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day weekend with your loved ones! I’m hoping we can get tix to Top Gun on Monday. The weekend is all sold out.
This weekend was sold out here as well — through Monday 🙁
Hi Laura and everyone!
I read WPF/SN back in 2020 and messaged Laura all about my positive raving through FB messenger and then read her other books last year in 2021. I have never posted here before even though I’ve read most of the entries. I’m not even sure what is the best way to scroll through the comments – start from the top of the page and scroll down or go straight to the bottom and work upwards?
Laura, don’t stop writing the story that your characters tell you! I want to read them! These are still my favorite books. I can’t wait for your next story and I popped in on this blog to actually check and see if you had any news about it. What a fun surprise that new convos had started 🙂 that I could sort of jump in.
Anyway, so much discussion about Phil and Lina and then Kim. I am a Phil fan, but an even bigger Lina fan. If looking at Kim through the lens of everyone else besides the Hunters, she is a very accomplished and intelligent woman. I don’t think her parents are oblivious to how driven or even conniving she is. But she is their daughter so they love her anyway, flaws and all. Whether they know her full motives and complete personality or not, they likely know something about her story is off based on the brief interlude between them and Phil in SN, realizing that not only does he have a family, but a wife who he has no intention of leaving. What I got out of everything was that Kim set her sights on Phil before they even met. He was like the creme de la creme of attorney royalty – symbolizing success, sexiness, power and whatever it was that made her view him as a prize to be won and conquered because it would show what a winner she is, too – the whole prom king and queen concept. No one else would do and married or not, that was irrelevant to her because once Phil met Kim in person, he would be so smitten with her that he’d forget about his wife in an instant because how could he resist this woman who was like his equal in the attorney world? Then they’d start conquering all lawyer things together and take over the whole world and grace the cover of attorney magazines because they are also beautiful, too, so don’t begrudge them that! Obviously she hadn’t counted on him having his own personality and desires and wants, which meant he wasn’t even tuned in to her attempts at seduction for a long time because he had the person he always wanted at home. I loved this about Phil, though – he was never going to be controlled or manipulated by anyone.
When I read cheating stories (specifically where the couple is married and eventually reconcile), the cheating aspect always starts with some kind of broken down aspect in the relationship and when the affair takes place, it’s like the person (usually the man) is on a vacation. He can just partake in the fun part without the responsibility aspect. That’s why Phil compartmentalized this so well. There was stress at work and especially at home, so Kim was this simple, uncomplicated escape. I genuinely think he felt he was being extremely direct about expectations, that he would never leave Lina, and that Kim would not question it further if they did have no strings attached, not realizing that she had a long game in her own mind. Phil is super perceptive, especially at work with picking apart motives in the courtroom, but I think in this case, in his personal life, he had blinders. And in his weak moment of feeling like maybe he wasn’t able to hold up his household between the wife and kids, having Kim looking at him with hero worship was kind of addicting and a feeling he enjoyed and wanted to feel again and again since it had been so long. Phil is very talented in many ways, he’s not used to not having the answers or solutions backfiring on him so I can see where this chipped away his wall to let in a distraction like Kim and also let it go as far as it did even if he never thought once that it was going to be some permanent thing. But for Kim, she wasn’t getting through to Phil beyond the physical acts, she was still a dirty secret and obviously she wasn’t having that because that didn’t align with her plan and maybe because Lina wasn’t some high powered attorney, Kim was egotistical enough to believe that Lina couldn’t keep Phil’s interest so she had to make the biggest waves possible – texting Phil, calling him at home, getting pregnant – stuff to garner attention and to instigate conflict so she could forcefully sway Phil to her side. The woman does not like losing or being made a fool of even if he made zero promises to her.
Phil – he’s not perfect and he is selfish, but he undoubtedly loves Lina. But after thinking about him for a very long time, I eventually made peace and understood him even though I’m not like him and can’t actually think like him. Maybe at first I would’ve liked to see some actual groveling, but like Laura says, that’s not Phil and I do think actions speak louder than anything else to showcase the change. I don’t focus on the details of when and where and how much because it will keep me up all night, but I do see the bigger picture that Phil finally connects together during the aftermath of his affair revealed. Plus, watching how he is with both Shiloh’s and Alice’s significant others, Phil still has very high expectations and standards of what a father and husband should be like. He does regret everything and it hits him hard because for so long, he had it all and it was close to perfect. Then it all fell apart and tore him wide open. Not that he cares much what others think, but he still respects his own parents, brother and Lina and loves his kids. I don’t know that Katie was unaffected by the affair as much as she was more go with the flow with it, because Phil had a iron fist with her before and now that he made his own grave mistake, he couldn’t judge her as harshly nor could he be so stern about what privileges she had anymore. I think she liked that she had more leeway and a voice that he actually listened to. Plus, I got slight Alice vibes out of Katie, meaning Katie is more laidback in her approach to relationships in the sense that she understands that people can’t be boxed into definitions and it’s okay if things are unconventional or people have a misstep along the way. What I loved the most about Phil was his new perspective on life, that he hurt Lina so deeply and that’s not something every marriage can bounce back from, but theirs did and he would never take it for granted again. Because he did take her for granted before and this part of him that lived through a downfall now understands that Lina is even more perfect to him than ever before because she still loves him just as much and forgives him completely. That even with Kim’s ugliness in his life, that still didn’t tarnish or ruin the authenticity of Lina’s heart and her ability to forgive him or to accept Liam as her own.
I don’t even know where I was going with this next. I was just putting some thoughts out there and trying to participate in the discussion.
Hi Michelle — nice to hear from you 🙂
Great assessment! I’ve never heard Kim described quite like that, but I totally agree. Spot on!
Hi Laura!
Thanks! I don’t care much for Kim, but like all of the characters in the story, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about them from all angles 😊
What are the possibilities of Meghan becoming a “Kim” clone? She’s entitled, smart and beautiful like her parents and wants what she wants. I had the opportunity to help out my nephew and his wife recently for a small family crisis and my nephew’s wife wanted something new to read so I gave her my kindle and recommended WPF and SN. There was a method to my madness. She is a clinical psychologist.. so is my nephew. It was very enlightening to hear her talk about the characters with my nephew and what they would think of them if they were their patients.
She loved your writing and how well you brought your characters to life. She said there were a few times that she would have thrown the kindle if it was hers. Interesting perspectives from both of them… sometimes the same sometimes very different. I guess it was the way males and females process information. My nephew didn’t read the books his wife just relayed the pertinent information.
I hope the possibility is very slim, especially after living the aftermath in her own family. She may find herself above being someone who would cheat.
Yes, that would be quite interesting!
That’s exactly what my nephews wife thought. My nephew had a slightly different opinion. There again I guess it’s the difference between how male and female brains are wired.
Michelle,
I hear you! Great assessment of the characters as Laura mentioned. I think I follow you on GR. Lol. If this is you, I love your thorough reviews and found some good ones after reading yours.
I read a good cheating one Miri recommended. Never Greener by Ruth Jones. It’s a Brit chick lit so the guy cries here and there- if any one reads it, I would love your take on it. He cheats after 5 hours of meeting the OW then breaks it off then cheats again after 10 years. I’m still not sure if he truly loves his wife?!🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Hi Janet! I don’t know if you do follow me on Goodreads, but if so, how very nice to meet you elsewhere! I am always a little embarrassed that people read my reviews, lol.
I have not heard of that book, but now I’m checking it out and one-clicking! Thanks for the rec! I love to read all of these dilemmas and angst in books. But in my own real life, absolutely not, lol.
Obviously, I am not a Kim fan! But I agree with analysis that emphasized Kim’s complexity!!
She can be a conniving instigator and a pathetic OW who cannot see things beyond her own perception at the same time. She was incapable of reconciling her egotistical delusion and the reality that Phil didn’t want her. I think that’s why many of her calculated actions were backfired.
I want to add that Kim parents’ accommodating attitude might also derive from their daughter’s intelligence and success and that they are not witnesses or recipients to her aggressive/dubious behaviors. I know it’s impossible but I think that they would have been shaken a little bit if they had had first-hand experience of how Kim hurt Lina and the Hunter family??or of any past dubious behaviors they knew about?? However they might suspect Kim of her version of the story in SN and thereafter, the severity of Kim’s behaviors was nonetheless lessened in their eyes as usual because of the lack of context…Idk, I am probably too critical and cynical 😮💨 I shouldn’t pay much attentions to Kim. She is irrelevant to Hunter family now!!
B,
You are right. Kim is irrelevant to the family now but I loved hating her. Lol. She was an integral part of the duet and gosh, I miss her shenanigans. Such a worthy evil OW, no?!🤣
J-Girl I remember you saying almost the exact same thing about Kim when Laura told us Kim had moved into Phil and Lina’s neighborhood…LOL…
Wasn’t that so so good Tracie? My heart was pounding reading that morsel Laura gifted us here. Waaahh I miss them. And, who misses Phil more than you?! You also said something very similar about Phil before in your response to Michelle. At this point, we are a broken record. heehee waahh waah.
Laura, I’m in a mood for a NFL hero. Did you write anymore of that book? The quarterback will have other women problems up the wazoo and his personality seemed similar to Phil’s right?
Oh no J-Girl she’s working on my widowed single dad doctor….Woooohooo.
Can’t wait….Since we are a broken record Laura you could drop a slight morsel of our hot single dad…I won’t even ask for a steamy this early in the process….
Wow, that was a good segue! Bahahaha. Laura, the 101 ways to smooth talk Laura into revealing scenes has started. 🤣🥰😘. Tracie, don’t think I didn’t notice “my widow” part either. You make me laugh out loud.
J, Sorry for the late reply!!
I agree! Kim is definitely a worthy OW/villain.😮💨 hard to get over~
Loved the character breakdown Michelle. Especially the part about how awesome my Phil was as a lawyer and a looker!
Lol Tracie, Phil is the whole success package and he knows it. I think that’s why he demands so much of his kids, because a lot of things come so easy to him – academics, athleticism, good looks, becoming partner at his firm, etc. To give him credit, minus everything to do with Kim, he is really good with being a provider and a protector.
😮,noooo!
Following up Deb’s question, Laura, Phil didn’t compare Lina’s and Kim’s sexuality ?? right?? right??😮
He was just in the heat, stupidly feeding his wounded ego with some enjoyable sex with an [above average yet nothing special to him] kind of woman (Kim)??? Phil was numb because of compartmentalise and all the pains he got from the “perfect storm”. Hence, he would not think that much about Lina other than he needed to conceal his affair from Lina (a degree of basic calculation and deception for anyone who ever had an affair)???
Of course not. Believe it or not, I talked to several men during the writing of this novel. As Janet so wisely stated somewhere below, men don’t think like women. Men know this and they also know that women don’t think like men. Why do women in insist on believing that men think? haha
They do think….About themselves!
The renewing the vows comment made me think- i think it’s a sweet idea and yes, others have pointed that out in the past. However, I thought Phil taking Lina to Paris (was it Hotel Crillon?) was more romantic and right up Phil’s alley since that’s where they went on their honeymoon. I loved that Phil being sad moment looking at the Xmas ornament. 🤣🥰
I think it’s Hôtel Plaza Athénée~😌
I agree! It’s bound with their history and a romantic getaway is forthrightly thoughtful like Phil’s love to Lina. Vow renewal in my opinion is sweet yet a little bit too “dainty” to be Phil’s choice🤔🤔
Ahh yes B! Thank you! Can you imagine the commentary between Megan and Katie if they did renew the vows? I would love to read it just for that. Liam would be a cutie and Logan will go along with whatever Lina wants but Katie would be mortified. Lol. And our dear Megan would die if Lina decided to wear white again for the event🤣
Maybe Lina would ask Phil to renew their vows in private just between themselves to reassure herself that even though he broke their wedding vows he would never cross that line again. Remember her confidence was shattered with the affair which Phil didn’t realize until the party at Wayne and Diane’s to welcome a new partner. After thinking about it for a while I don’t think Lina would want a public renewal…just something between her and Phil. I am sure if Lina asked him Phil would be 100% on board. He would do anything to reassure Lina of his total devotion. I would like to imagine Phil repeating his wedding vows to Lina in Paris.
That’s a great idea Deb and I would like to think they did renew it in their hotel bed in Paris. It seems more special that way. As Tracie always says, swoon !
Lina would never ask Phil to renew their vows. But like Janet said, I can see them in Paris lying in bed and Phil telling Lina he’ll always put her first. He would tell her with feather light kisses how much he loved her and would spend the rest of his life making sure she felt it. Big Swoon!
Laura
I still haven’t finished reading all of your blog posts so just a few questions. In WPF Lina mentioned to Diane at the first dinner after the tie incident that she sensed tension between Phil and Wayne. Had Wayne talked to Phil about his affair with Kim and that was the cause of the tension? If so would that discussion have taken place before or after SB and wouldn’t Phil be concerned that if Wayne had discovered his infidelity that it was only a matter of time before Lina discovered the affair. I know everyone says Phil wasn’t in his right mind, which I agree, but I know he would never want to hurt Lina with that knowledge even in his “his fog state” of mind. He’s not a stupid or cruel man. We know that he planned on sleeping with Kim on Saturday and then again the following week when they traveled. How much longer do you think he would have continued sleeping with her if Lina hadn’t reached out to him that night…a few weeks, another month or until he found out Kim was pregnant. Reading When I Saw You again…love your characters.
Hi Deb,
I spent hours and hours answering these questions and unless it’s something quick, I just don’t have the time to draft another response. The bottom line – Phil cheated on Lina. The ugly details have always seemed irrelevant to me.
This novel isn’t about an affair. It’s about a family dealing with the aftermath of an affair.
I firmly believe that Phil is a good man who did a very bad thing.
Ok sorry
Laura, I was not going to let another day go by without letting you know that you are one of the BEST story telling writers I’ve read. I have been reading cheating/angst /marriage in trouble books for about 1.5 years for personal reasons.
I purchased SN before WPF. I am not sure if the blog ladies has made up a Team Lina? If not I am Lina’s # one fan. Lina is one of the STRONGEST female character I’ve ever read. She has guts and determination one solid bitch. I liked her relationship with Nick, I felt she was justified. Until you Laura made me see that my girl Lina was emotionally cheating on Phil. I’m thinking all CRAP, Laura is on point girlfriend did cheat emotionally on hubby. But I do not believe Lina would have ever slept with Nick. Lina’s love for Phil was stronger than her semi lust for Nick even though Phil broke her heart. This is why I loved/liked Lina so much she gave Phil the chance to heal the hurt with her and the rest of the family.
There were times that I wanted to slice/dice Phil’s gonads and feed them to the seals. I wanted Phil to grovel, sling snot, to Barrow and back. To beg Lina to forgive him to tell her how sorry he was and he would never cheat again. Laura you kept it really real you showed me how useless the word sorry is. It is the ACTION that counts in a marriage relationship. How I wish I had known this in my life. Thank you so much for that Laura,
Don’t you ever let the nasayers stop you from writing, you have a gift of telling wonderful beautiful stories. AND this fan of yours wants to read each and every one of them.
I also want to give out a “SHOUT OUT” to Ms. Tracie. Tracie when Laurie was too busy you took up the slack and answered all of the questions. Thank you wonderful and TALENTED in your own right. Also the class of 2020 & 2021 thank you for answering and the asking questions that I was thinking but did not know how to put down on paper.
Laura one more thing I have not finished WPF or SN. WPF gives me anxiety in a good way. As I used to tell my kids your writing makes my liver’s shake it is so intense. Lol! If it had not been for your blog and the wonderful women that asked questions and got answers I don’t think I would be able to finish WPF & SN. I am one of those people that have to know that the ending is going to be something that I can believe and live with. Now that I know the Hunters will be able to withstand any hardship that comes their way I’m good. Thank you Laura sooo much I can’t wait for your new book. It isn’t out yet is it?
Laura sorry I have a lot more questions but I will ask just this one please? Did Phil ever come home smelling of nasty assed Kim, if not where did he shower and brush his teeth?
Please excuse any mispelled or incorrect writing or sentences. I am not good at this blogging.
Hi Ella! Welcome to the blog!
Thanks for your kind words — I’m team Lina too!!! And you know Tracie is as well.
Did Phil ever come home smelling like Kim — I hope not. He would shower — there was a corporate apartment. Ugh hate the thought.
Laura
Awww Ella thank you for the shoutout. Do me a favor and finish the books, they don’t disappoint. Just like their author, they’re amazing…
Laura…was the pink tie incident and Kim’s text the first time Lina would have suspected that Phil was unfaithful? Did Phil feel any guilt
when he returned home after his first tryst with Kim or was he still so angry about their fight? Who made the first move in the bar? Would alcohol have played a part in him giving in to his desires for Kim? Since Diane told Lina that Kim was chasing Phil from the very beginning I figure that there had to be some flirting, although in the beginning innocent on Phil’s part, going on all along. How many times would Phil have had sex with Kim over that 4 month period…feasibly over 100 times if he had sex with her multiple times a day. That is what was so hard for me to reconcile Phil’s “love” for Lina. That number makes you think how could he have been so stupid and selfish when Lina was his “life”. Would he have ever compared Kim to Lina in his mind during sex? I think he might have since men are men. I guess every time it got easier since he was obviously setting up trysts with Kim while home with Lina. Did he EVER think about Lina and have any regrets when he got home after each encounter? If Lina hadn’t reached out to Phil that night how much longer would he have continued the affair…maybe until he realized Kim was pregnant? What would Linas response had been if the affair was still in full swing when he told her about the affair and pregnancy? How would Phil have reacted if Lina told him that she would take back her maiden name in the divorce papers and maybe Logan saying that when he turned 18 he would take his Moms maiden name. I think it would destroy him. If and how would Phil try to win Lina back if she did decide to go through with the divorce? Was the separation initially his response to Lina seeing Nick or to give her a sense of independence as he later stated. I just finished SN for the second time and luckily this book helped me forgive Phil. There were times in WPF that I wanted to gut Phil and strangle him with his entrails. Sorry for so many questions. I’ve been jotting them down as I reread both WPF and SN. Laura you bring your characters to life…great job. I am sorry if these questions have already been answered but I haven’t read the entire blog yet.
Deb,
Yes, the pink tie incident was the first Lina suspected an affair.
I don’t know what Phil was feeling — I’m sure there was some guilt, but as Zaincruise said in an earlier quote — he wasn’t himself during this period — he was acting out of character. He felt he had failed his family and he basically cracked. When a spouse has an affair, the other isn’t privy to their inner thoughts. I was with Lina, not Phil, during this affair. I only wrote his actions. That is all Lina and the reader had to go on. I believe some people, particularly men, have an amazing ability to compartmentalize — this is what Phil did. His affair was completely separate from his family. He didn’t let the two worlds touch each other. This is why the Steamboat encounter was so significant — Phil’s world collided. And that was the beginning of the end of the affair. Phil could not longer keep them separate in his head. And yes, the affair lingered for a couple more weeks but it was ending and Phil was coming out of his fog.
Kim was a flirt with men. Phil wasn’t flirting with Kim. He didn’t even really notice her until he went down to the bar. And yes, Kim made the first move. How many times did they have sex? Lina decided in the first draft — about 80 times.
The separation was Phil giving Lina the space she wanted. Would he eventually try to win her back? Yes, absolutely. The only thing that would have made Phil give up is Lina marrying another man — otherwise he would have waiting and made small moves.
Laura
Thank goodness you were in Lina’s mind not Phil’s …you would have gone crazy trying to be in his mind or any man’s mind while they were having an affair because they’re not thinking. I know some people wanted to see more groveling from Phil but as you said actions count…words not so much. I watched my best friends marriage implode because of her husbands affair 15 years ago. He talked a good game but his actions were the exact opposite of his promises. I think Phil would carry the guilt until his dying breath but Lina’s love would keep him from ever straying again. I don’t see Lina throwing his affair in his face once she forgave him and once her love for Liam was established. She would never want Liam to feel any guilt about his existence. Would Kim ever have a relationship with Liam or would she see him a a sign of her failure? Would Liam want anything to do with Kim when he got older if he learned of Kim’s scheming to get his father to leave Lina?
I agree — Phil would carry the guilt forever. And Lina would completely forgive him.
Kim isn’t someone who would ever admit failure. And yes, when it servers her purpose, she would want a relationship with Liam. When he’s a teenager excelling in school and sports she would love to show him off a bit. I think Liam would be curious about Kim. He may be attracted to her jet setting life — but, Lina is who he would turn to if he needed a mother. And I don’t think he would ever trust Kim. If he knew the lengths she went to hurt Lina, no, he wouldn’t want a relationship.
OMG…I had no idea it might have been as high as 80 times in 4 months that Phil slept with Kim. How did the man have time for anything else!
Have missed these discussions. I kept checking the link for months, and it was as if all the cool kids were hanging out somewhere else that I didn’t know about. So glad the comments have resumed. Now feeling the need to do another reread of Laura’s books.
Does this bother anyone else–Phil’s willingness to possibly expose Lina to STDs calls is almost impossible to understand given that he must have known Kim was a player. I understand he was in a “fog” but still….
I didn’t say 80 times. I said that’s what Lina decided. And Kim wasn’t sleeping with anyone else, so how would he know she was a player? He wasn’t paying much attention to her.
And I think everyone was bothered by the unprotected sex, but without it there would be no Liam. And we wouldn’t really have a novel.
Laura
Just a quick question… was Phil really instigating all of their trysts? I know Kim wanted Lina to think it was always Phil so that’s why she forwarded those texts but surely he wasn’t so taken with her that all he thought of was getting her back into bed. When would he have had time to win his biggest case when he couldn’t stay out of Kim’s bed.
No. I’m sure Kim was careful with the text she chose to send to Lina.
Laura
What do you think Phil could have said or done that night in the bar that gave Kim the impression that now was the time to seduce him? I can’t see him saying “Lina and I just had a big fight and we aren’t having sex as often as I want it”. I know you said that Phil told Kim that he loved Lina and would never leave her but in Kim’s mind his words and actions were not compatible. I am assuming he had that discussion with her before their first sexual encounter or maybe immediately after their first time together. I can see why Kim would think that she had him in the palm of her hand since they were going at it like rabbits but then I was thinking why did she intentionally get pregnant so early in the affair probably within weeks of the affair beginning. It obviously wasn’t a one night stand since Phil was willing to risk discovery of the affair by using the corporate apartment during working hours to have sex with her. I would think Kim would feel pretty confident that she would eventually wear him down. Was she so used to instant gratification and didn’t want to wait for what she thought was inevitable…. Phil leaving Lina for her? I think I remember someone saying he would not have been loving towards Kim after they had sex and maybe that was her “ ahh” moment that she had to push her agenda ( her pregnancy). I am hoping that it was Kim not Phil who instigated the continuation of the affair since Phil admitted to Lina that is was a one night stand until it wasn’t. I would hate to think he approached Kim to continue their affair but maybe he did. Laura you have such a gift for development of your characters and bringing them to life for your readers. Thank you for sharing your gift with your readers.
Hi Deb
Phil would of said absolutely nothing to Kim in that bar about his fight or sex life with Lina. His mood after the fight was her green light. Kim probably played the accommodating seductress explaining she could relieve his stress with no strings etc. We talked about this before where we decided he let her knew before he left his bar stool that he loved his wife, would never leave her or his family and she was just a distraction.
Also, you have to remember, Phil was a powerhouse lawyer very dedicated to his job. He would have never jeopardized his career having crazy sex at all hours a day. Remember he said after the wedding scene slap in WPF now everyone in that room knows I had an affair. Remember at the first of SN when he said he needed to apologize to his secretary because she knew about the affair before everyone else did. Because she saw Kim setting on his couch while he finished his work. Remember Lina being happy he was home for dinner early at the first of WPF?
That was because he wouldn’t have used that corporate apartment until the end of the day or for a late lunch that wouldn’t garner any attention that it was being used.
I don’t know if you have seen it or not, but Janet replied to one of your messages further down in the thread.
Why would Phil explain anything to Kim? He respects her as a colleague but his marriage isn’t any of her business. The night they started the affair, he threw his cell against the wall and came down to the bar. I’m sure all it took for Kim was to be at the right place at the right time. In that sense Phil wasn’t lying when he said in SN-“ you think it was you? It could have been anyone.” All Kim had to say was Hi, bad night? I can make it better. And all Phil had to say was I’m married and I’m not leaving my wife. This means nothing.” – that’s it. Kim would have accepted the crumb thrown her way.
Exactly Salt..Kim would of been the ultimate crumb snatcher…
Tracie, bahaha! That made me laugh out loud. It’s pretty pathetic that she had to snatch the crumbs here and there. I hope she got down on the floor looking for some more. What a pleasant visual for me. 🤣
As women, we are fixated on details and explanation/answers but guys aren’t wired this way. Did Phil think I screwed her 3x today? No. But of course, I want to know when where why what -down to the shoe choice for Kim!
Now the shoe comment made me laugh out loud. I can see you wanting to know about the shoes. I’m sure they were sky high and color coordinated with red soles.
I’m am so late to the WPF party; I just read it for the first time August 2022, but I don’t think I can exaggerate how much of an impact it has had on me. (In fact, after I read it, I systematically read all of Laura’s books.) While I could share so many thoughts I have about this book (and SN) — dissections of the characters, the story, the writing — all I found myself thinking about today was Laura’s use of dialogue. More precisely, how she wrote Phil’s dialogue. The reason I am posting here rather than making a separate post is because I see that Laura says here that she wrote from Lina’s perspective, and that really got me thinking. We had a window into Lina’s mind and heart, we witnessed her heart ground to paste, but Laura notes that she just catalogued Phil’s actions. What I was always struck by was how Phil’s dialogue, for the most part, lacked attributions. We had his words, but they existed without any verbs to show how he delivered them (Did he yell, groan, grit out, etc.?) and no description appeared to hint at how he was feeling as he delivered his words. I realize now, having read what Laura said here, that these omissions were intentional to serve the story. Since this is my first time on the website, I see now that there are bonus scenes, scenes that strip Phil bare and show just how gutted he is, and I guess I really needed that (even though we get so much more of him in SN) because when he would have several lines of dialogue that just sat there without the context of his feelings, actions, or vocal tone, I found myself more angry with him. I was unsettled by him, how unruffled he seemed, so damn matter-of-fact that he risked being smug, and it was hard to believe it when he said he was sorry, largely because of how he came across in dialogue. For the first few rereads, I felt like Phil was so flat that he came across too harsh and unrepentant. But today, I was like, oh my goodness that is such an ingenious literary choice here. Clearly, WPF is Lina’s story – the aftermath of your husband’s affair grenade going off in your chest and obliterating your heart. If we had too much Phil, it would tip the balance or at least ameliorate Lina’s pain in the eyes of the reader if we could see too much of Phil’s side or understand him better. The beauty and strength of the story is that family triumphs, and it should be hard to accept that Lina would forgive Phil because it would be. That’s what makes her forgiveness akin to grace because it’s undeserved. Sometimes you have to choose the life you know you want for the future in the present, even when that choice feels untenable. So, psychologically, it made more sense from a character development POV to limit our understanding of Phil because how many times did Lina say, “I don’t even know who you are.”? Those are devastating words from your spouse, especially when that person is supposed to know you better than anyone. The distance and disconnect of Phil as a character brought about by the stark dialogue helps us get a better sense of how Lina is feeling. She was blindsided, and because of how the dialogue is written, Phil seems inaccessible to us as the reader just as Lina feels like she can no longer understand him. While I still wish Phil would grovel more, be more broken, I am just awed by this stylistic choice, especially since it is in keeping with who Phil really is. Absolutely brilliant. Even though I am late to the party, I’m just glad it’s still going on, and I am ready to join the dance.
Hi Michelle! Thanks for you comments. There are literally thousands of comments on this blog and you actually pointed out something unique. And you were right, Phil was inaccessible to the reader most of the time. Every once in a while, he let his wall come down, but this was only to Lina.
Hi Laura,
I am trying to find A Sense Of Belonging in paperback but can’t find it. Is it out in paper?
Thanks,
Ella
Hi Ella,
Unfortunately is isn’t currently available in paperback.
I’ll send out an email when it is.
Thanks,
Laura
Have you girls ever wondered what Kim’s parents thought of her or if they ever talked with her about her relationship with Liam. I wonder if Kim’s mom ever apologized to Lina for pursuing Phil knowing he was a married man.
Hi Tracie,
I think you guys discussed this in the past??☺️
I gathered that Kim’s parents wouldn’t get the whole picture of this “saga”. Kim wouldn’t tell/confess to them the whole truth, for one thing she didn’t want to paint herself in a bad light. Also she herself, living in her own narcissistic universe, believed that she was “manipulated by Phil” etc etc, so even in her own mind, the affair was a distorted picture without any objective intervention. So her parents probably would just have to accept the morally dubious picture that Kim painted for them regarding the affair.
I also think Phil and Lina wouldn’t bother to sit down with Kim’s parents to have a heart to heart conversation about the affair. They are just cordial acquaintances to Phil and Lina. I think Phil would never have that kind of words exchange with “strangers”?? I imagine Lina respects them as Liam’s grandparents and give them accessibility to Liam, being the nice and kind Lina as she always was?? Moreover, to discuss the past affair with Kim’s parents would look unnecessarily defensive?? Lina is confident to welcome them to stay in while they came to visit Liam. However, the whole decision/movement is definitely under Hunter household rule.The Hunter family moved past from this chapter so no need to bring it up again. Kim’s parents are sophisticated enough to sense that, I guess.
Also, Kim’s own parents obviously knew how Kim is as a person, at least thru rosy parental glasses. They accepted Kim to be an “exceptional” and successful daughter with her own “flaws” (not the harsh, cold, true version of the flaws but the rosy glasses version of the flaws). Kim probably toned herself down while she was with her parents (I vaguely remember Laura said this😂). So I imagine Kim’s parents knew how dubious the situation was but decided to gloss over Kim’s own wrongdoings. Parents, when deal with self-centred/ self-absorbed child, could be a little bit enabling and super accommodating, if the child is generally functioning if not successful. They might scold her privately for not take an active role as Liam’s mother. But I imagine they turn a blind eye as usual and accept that she is a “modern” woman without too many maternal instincts. They probably sighed “Kim is Kim”🤔🤔
Berenice I degree with your assessment. But I can tell you this about me, there would be no parent rose colored glasses. My daughter would know exactly how I felt and just like Kim’s parents I would have a relationship with my grandchild. I would also apologize to Lina, even though Phil was a consenting adult.
That would be agree not degree…LOL.
Tracie!
Lol!! I agree!!🤓
I must say that we are privileged by the “omniscient reader point of view”. Kim’s parents, on the other hand, would never know all the horrible things their daughter did, so basically it’s out of their control, their over thirty-year-old successful daughter and their grandson’s father side of family. The only thing they can do is to be loving grandparents to Liam. Certainly, they are used to the idea of their daughter to be a metropolitan girl type.
I am not sure but I am trying to draw a parallel between Meghan and Kim. I imagine Meghan, to a lot of people, is insufferable. When Meghan grew older and became completely independent, let’s say over thirty, her personality must draw some people to like her and a certain amount of people to dislike/even hate her (yes, even now a lot of reader dislike her with a passion for her OTT self-absorption). I am not saying that Meghan would do something nasty like sleeping with a married men or other horrible stuff Kim did. But given her controversial personality, in her adulthood, there must be people clashing with her and thinking she is “selfish” etc etc. But Lina and Phil as her parents would be absent to most of her adulthood “dramas”. They, especially Lina, might have some vague ideas of it. However, they just don’t know all the events in Meghan’s life any more and couldn’t be objective judges of her and her life anyway. The positive side of this is Phil and Lina, as Meghan’s parents with all the highs and lows of Meghan thru the years, would continue to be supportive and loving parents to Meghan. But for people who don’t share these experiences and relationships (not parents, siblings or bff) with Meghan, they would simply pointed out what they disliked and turn against/away from her.
I remembered Laura said that her depiction of Kim is the emphasis on her relation to and involvement with Phil, the affair and the consequences but she was also sure that a lot of people in Kim’s life who know the other sides of Kim and were not direct victims to her narcissism would find her likable. Laura’s reply was mixed with how to make OW more likable but I dig in on that a little bit and imagine her parents are among those people and probably are on the top list of it.🤔
Totally agree Berenice. The subject would never be broached by the Hunters. I’m sure Kim’s parents would be disappointed by Kim’s lack of parental participation.
Something stuck out to me in Berenice’s response where she said Kim was a Metropolitan type girl and Phil to me was just the opposite. Don’t get me wrong Phil could fit in or play the part in any environment, but he was the lounge pant, chill out guy after work. Brings me back to the Thanksgiving scene where he said you don’t know me enough to love me….
I wonder if Kim would of been disenchanted with the real Phil? Not the sharp dressed man that dominated a courtroom, but the man that wanted to spend time with his kids on the weekends. Spreading mulch in his wife’s flowerbeds or going to Lacrosse games after work, etc….
Lol!! I totally agree with that Phil could fit in any environments!! The difference is some environments are what he likes and enjoys, the others are professional environments that he could perform regardless of his own preference!!
I came up with this idea when I was binge watching “The Crown” and had a discussion of Princess Di’s marriage “fiasco” with friends😂. Di struck me as a “Metropolitan Girl” and her then husband was not. There’s no which is nobler than which. It’s just simply the emphasis on the severe contrast of their lifestyle interests which made their marriage life miserable. Di liked the city life , bourgeois artistic/intellectual circles and all the single-life/hipster fun stuff and her ex husband was a “country man”, hiking, hunting and fine literature/art appreciation. Di ultimately paid for her childish crush/enchantment with great cost! Kim was similar from this perspective. Kim was mesmerised by Phil as a man but her own life, life interest and lifestyle couldn’t be more different to Phil’s.
Tbh, I think the opposite of “Metropolitan girl” is more elegant and sophisticated than the “Metropolitan girl” lifestyle! It’s my personal preference. Also, Kim’s addiction to Phil was probably too deep to regret and she definitely tormented herself to both resent and secretly be attracted to Phil for many years after the affair.
Hi Tracie,
Like others have said, I don’t believe that Kim’s parents would approach the Hunters. After
they get to know Lina, they will probably wonder how could Phil have ever cheated on her? They know for a fact that Phil was married to Lina when Liam was conceived. They also probably realized after speaking to Phil the first time that Phil did not know Kim before she moved to Baltimore. Kim’s dad knows she lied when she told him Phil was divorcing Lina when they met. He told Kim he remembered what she told him about Phil’s marital status
What I wonder is when Kim gets married and has her own family, will she have a different perspective about pursuing Phil?
Holley I don’t think Kim would of had anymore children. Remember when she told Phil in the bonus scene that she was just not a baby type person. Like Laura said once it would probably be an older guy…I think she said a successful investment banker. Kim would want money and prestige, not a family.
My opinion only, but I don’t think she would of changed her perspective on chasing Phil. Kim went for what she wanted without any remorse or guilt.
Hello everyone
I think Kim’s parents knew exactly the type of person she was…driven and accustomed to getting exactly what she wanted. I am sure they encouraged her to go after her dreams not knowing that she wanted to destroy a marriage to accomplish her ultimate goal of what she thought was a perfect life for herself, I know her sister knew what her intentions were when she took the job at Phil’s law firm so she must have confided in her at some point. I wonder what Kim’s excuse was when her parents came at Christmas to see Liam and Phil was no where to be seen? I think Kim’s parents would have been too embarrassed to even broach the subject of Kim’s lack of maternal interest with Lina and Phil. I am sure they thought Lina was a saint. Not sure what their true feelings would have been about Phil other than him being their grandsons father and glad that Lina was his wife.
I don’t know if this was discussed but had Phil been drinking a lot after his fight with Lina and that made him more receptive to Kim’s advances? I assume that Kim made the first advance and since I think I remember it being said that she was after him from day 1 that major flirting had been going on for months prior to their first romp. Did he actually think it was a one night stand as he told Lina after admitting to the affair and then he came home and the tension was still so high from their fights over Kate that he was okay with “ relieving his stress” in bed with Kim. I guess it’s such a foreign concept to me that a man that says he loves his wife so much doesn’t see anything wrong with an extra marital affair….no guilt at all until the affair was uncovered. He was actually planning romps with Kim with Lina sitting next to him at the kitchen table or sitting room. That was such a narcissistic move. Laura’s characters are so well developed that one minute you hate him and the next you love him. He was lucky Lina was so forgiving because a vast majority of wives would have shown him the door. I have 2 friends who actually did that….the affairs destroyed their lives and their children’s lives. I was happy not to see that happen to the Hunter family. I don’t think Liam would have anything but a causal relationship with Kim as he matured especially if he found out about the true circumstances of his conception….Kim getting pregnant in a last ditch effort to get Phil to leave Lina. Lina will always be his mother. Going to reread SN on the beach….finally beautiful weather again here in Florida.
I don’t know where to reply so here’s my two cents.
Man, Phil always sucks me in. Lol. Who knew I would be the one defending him(Tracie’s Phil does not care) but seriously Phil needs me to butt in here for a bit.
Deb, I was in your shoes few years back and Laura and Tracie were my therapists while Laura wrote SN. But, once I forgave Phil at 87% of SN, I never looked back. He was faithful to his wife for 25 years. Since he was 16. Not giving him props for that but when Laura said he cracked bc he felt useless to his whole family and turned to Kim, he did have a full on affair. As much as I hate him for doing that, physical affair means sex. If he was using sex to escape, I’m surprised it wasn’t more than 80 days. After all, he was in the City for most of those 4 months so other than weekends he saw Kim every single day at work. Isn’t it the same in real life? And, I have read so many times on Goodreads why Phil wasn’t using protection. Weirdly, that is one thing I never questioned about Phil. He is at heart, a selfish character. If Kim told him she was clean and was on the pill, he had no reason to doubt her since he assumed they were on the same wavelength. I don’t think he saw any reason to distrust Kim at that point. Also, Kim may be a bitch but I don’t think she is a player. I’m sure she think it’s a privilege for men to date her so she’s very picky with the company she keeps. Bottom line, I think she’s just a home wrecker. To this day, I’m not a Phil fan but the Hunters have affected me in the books I choose to read, and even how I view certain people I come across in real life. And, when it came time for my kids to apply to colleges, I thought of Megan and Phil in their convos. I can’t wait Laura to write Liam/ Logan’s story. Can you please start now Laura?!
Hey Tracie
I couldn’t reply to your post for some reason so I had to go to an earlier post. I will look for Janet’s reply. I saw on the post I am replying to your question about Kim’s parents in regard to her relationship with Liam. I think her parents knew how ambitious and driven she was in life and encouraged her to pursue her dreams and do whatever it took to attain those dreams. Unfortunately for Phil he was her grand prize. Once they realized Phil was married and not separated at the time of the affair I am sure they put two and two together and probably thought her pregnancy was an accident. Her parents had to see her disconnect with Liam. The scene where Kim left Liam sobbing and calling for her showed that she didn’t have a maternal bone in her body. She must have confided in her sister at one point because she knew Kim came to Baltimore with the goal of chasing Phil. Not sure if Kim told her sister that he was married. Even if she had told her sister, I don’t think anything her sister could have said would deter her because she knew Kim was selfish and wanted what she wanted. I wonder how long it took Kim to figure out that her pregnancy was the wrong path to take in gaining Phil’s love and respect. I think Kim, to a small degree, resented Liam since he didn’t help her achieve her goal and she was happy for Lina to take care of him. Maybe in the back of her mind she thought that Lina would not like the daily reminder of Phil’s affair and maybe, just maybe, finally call it quits with Phil. Remember her sister told Phil that she still wanted him at any cost.. She didn’t know Lina very well that’s for sure or count on Phil’s tenacity in holding on to his marriage. I would like to think that Phil would ask Lina to renew their marriage vows as a symbolic gesture to start fresh with a clean slate.
Deb Laura actually thought that was a good idea at one time while she was writing SN. Another fan had suggested a vow renewal. But like Laura said you can’t put every good idea into a book because it would be to long. I personally think SN covered every important aspect of Phil and Lina’s journey. It proved that true love still exists and foundations can be repaired and made even stronger through adversity. The affair was just a wrong turn in that journey that made the crack in the foundation visible.
Tracie
So true…the vow renewal would just be icing on the cake. They were getting their happily ever after even without a renewal ceremony. Our youngest daughter is a Tracy obviously spelled differently. Laura did too good of a job bringing her characters to life.
It took me a while to forgive Phil and then I’m thinking “ why am I forgiving him…he’s a fictional character.
Yes he is a fictional character, however, through Laura’s talent in story telling, he was brought to life in our minds. So I’m glad you forgive him, because he was so very much worth forgiving…
Hi, everyone!
Just pop in for a thought.
I think that Phil was aware of how “dangerous” and “not right” the affair was, even when he was in the heat of the affair. It’s just that there’s this exigency for him to have/continue this affair. He had this urgent need to do it, a temporary fix as it was. He was in the “storm” which affected/hurt/disturbed him deeply and personally, a failed father and an unwanted husband as he thought he was (which was not true!!). It might look selfish outwardly but it was his life that was tormented. His recklessness and seemingly lack of judgment derived from his personal turmoil. He chose not or was too occupied by the amalgam of pain and frustration to think lucidly about how consequential his affair would be??
Tracie, what do you mean that Katie and Phil were alike in terms of academics?? I understand that Katie probably excelled at all the subjects she chose, same as Phil but I always thought that her interest in academics was different to Phil???🤔
Hi Berenice…their field of studies were different. Academically they were both straight A’s and I guarantee it came easy to them both. Even though Megan was a straight A student, in my mind, she had to work harder getting the grade than Katie. Logan is highly intelligent too! However, unlike Megan time waits on no man he better thing to do than study…Loved me some Logan…
Hi Tracie,
I agree, especially the Meghan part.
I also think that using Katie’s own word, she is WISE so I imagine she chose what she liked and excelled at them so she got immaculate transcripts at the end. I guess that if she studied something she disliked then it would impact her grades?? She lives for herself (very mature or “opinionated” for her age) and has her own operating logic, all sorts of justifications for doing her own things. I think Katie, except the depressing period of time, is good at managing herself. I bet she even has her own rationale on why she doesn’t tidy up her own room😂. She knows what she wants in life and has clear goal/ direction etc etc.
I imagine Phil as a student didn’t necessarily like all the subjects but he just knew how to study so whether he liked the subject or not, he always had the methods to succeed??
Logan!!! He was just bothered deeply by the affair, separation etc etc. I mean…of course Katie and Meghan cared about the affair/separation and were affected by it as well but they were not as deeply bothered as Logan was. The uproar and disruption hit Logan hard and clearly hurt him to an extent that he couldn’t operate his daily routine as usual🤔. Also, Logan probably was very picky?? Highly intelligent for sure but couldn’t get himself invested into all the boring K12 subjects properly. Thus, I imagine that once he finds his passion (architecture) in uni, he is going to be amazing!!
Logan will be Berenice…I can see him on the cover of Architectural Digest leaning against the front of his desk in a fitted Armani with his ankles crossed. He’ll be raved about for being one of the most innovative young architects in the field.
If Laura writes Liam’s book, I’ll have to have Logan just as successful as Liam…LOL.
I re-read WPF for a second time and I have to say it was as good as the first time I read it. I know Laura said that Phil and Kim messed around in his office. Do you think he would actually have full blown sex in his office or just heavy groping? I don’t see how he couldn’t have, even if it was in passing, not make a comparison to Lina and Kim’s bodies and their lovemaking styles? Would he cuddle and hold Kim all night when they slept together on their business trips or would he go back to his room? I mean it was a full blown affair. I haven’t read all of the blog so maybe this was discussed before…if so I apologize. Off the above train of thought from above but what do you think Phil’s reaction would have been if Lina said she wanted to take back her maiden name. If they had actually divorced do you think Phil would have “courted” her or would he have dated other women and tried to find love again? I know Lina forgave him but how long would it take her to trust and forget…or maybe trust but never forget. Sorry for so many varied thoughts but I jotted these down as I was reading WPF again. I finally came to see how sorry he was when I read that he has been going to his church every day to pray that Lina would forgive him. He was beating himself up for his selfishness and I stupidity in having the affair and the devastation it caused Lina and his family. At what point in the affair did Kim decide that she needed to get pregnant if she ever had any hope of getting Phil to leave Lina? That’s all my questions or thoughts from my second read through. I hope to start SN tomorrow. The weather has been lousy for our Florida trip….hope it’s better next week.
Hi Deb…sorry about the lousy weather on vacation. Laura will have to weigh in on and answer these questions. My opinion only..I think they probably did have full blown sex in his office, but probably only after everyone had left. He may risk a blow job during the day, but I don’t see him getting butt naked. Laura also once said that those big law firms have corporate apartments in the building so I’m sure that was used. I don’t think Phil cuddled Kim at all. We have talked about it and we concluded that once he was done with sex he became an island. Yes he slept all night with her but his character wouldn’t dictate any kind of emotional cuddle time with anyone other than Lina. I don’t think Phil would of compared Kim and Lina in anyway. His wife was his safe place and he loved her, so no he wouldn’t have had thoughts of Lina while having sex or gazing at Kim’s naked body. I think she got pregnant as a last resort when she realized two months in he was not going to put her on a pedestal and leave his wife. Kim was just a distraction he could take her or leave her. She had to have felt that rolling off of him, when he was upfront about Lina from the start.
Hi Deb,
I agree with Tracie on the sex in the office. I hate the thought but it probably did happen. I don’t believe he would have compared them sexually because that requires thoughts. Phil was not thinking about Lina during his affair, he was doing everything to avoid thinking about her in that sense. He was only thinking about his own pleasure 🥺.
I think Laura had said in the past that Phil would have waited until Lina had moved on as in getting remarried or something like that. Phil would have let Lina know he wanted her back but I don’t know if he would have courted her, that I think is a Laura question. I dont think he would have dated other women because what he really wanted was Lina and his family and after Kim he would have thought twice about rushing into anything. As for Lina changing her name, I dont believe she would have but if she did, Phil would be sad because that would have been another step in Lina moving on from him.
Your question about how long before she trusted him. I believe she trusted him as soon as they got back together. Would she trust but verify from time to time, I believe so. As for forgetting about the affair, I don’t think she can, I mean Liam lived with her. But she didn’t feed into the pain brought on by the affair. The thought of it was less painful with time. I don’t think it’s possible for Lina not to have some residual thoughts/memories of Phil’s affair. But I think she truly put it behind her and moved on.
What I’ve wondered from time to time is how Lina felt the first time Phil went away after they got back together. Did she get anxious when they argued when Phil was out of town after getting back together? After all, he got with Kim while away on a business trip. I remember a scene in SN where she was with Adele and she thought about Phil traveling and being approached and Adele told her not to go there.
I guess I have to agree that Phil was careless enough to have sex in the office after hours…I was hoping I was wrong. I think Kim was perplexed when Phil wasn’t racing for a divorce so he could marry her. I still find it hard to believe that he was so reckless in not using or being concerned about birth control after their initial time together. The first time I could see because he wasn’t planning on cheating on Lina. Did Kim suspect that she was pregnant when Phil broke things off with her and if so why didn’t she say something then and not until weeks later? Was she waiting to see if she could change his mind and resume the affair and leave the pregnancy news as a last ditch effort? Would Phil have ever forgiven Lina if she had slept with Nick during their separation? In the texts between Kim and Phil it appeared that Phil was the instigator in all of the liaisons after the affair began. My question is the text from Kim in the beginning of WPF in trying to arrange a tryst was she sensing Phil’s waning interest and that’s why she text him or was she hoping that maybe Lina would see her text? I still haven’t read all of the blog but I thought I read something about a book about the actual affair or did I misread or misunderstand? I didn’t know if this was a trilogy and I missed the first book. If so, that would be a difficult book to read and I would imagine a horror for Laura to write.
Holley I don’t think it would of bothered Lina when Phil went on his first trip. Their connection was strong she knew he wouldn’t cheat on her again. I heard once that forgiveness isn’t a feeling it’s a decision. Once Lina made that decision to forgive Phil and the pictures were put behind them, they were fine with each other.
Hi Deb no it wasn’t a trilogy. WPF was originally named the Affair and Laura’s editor pretty much had her rewrite the entire thing. Laura shared several of the deleted scenes on the blog.
The birth control issue was a a misstep on his part. Phil told us in the Thanksgiving scene that he had miss read the entire situation with Kim and Kim’s intentions. She told Phil she was on the pill and Phil knowing how many hours it took to make partner and as career driven as Kim was he believed her about the birth control. I think she knew she was pregnant before she texted him at the ball game. She would of had to get pregnant around the 23rd of March and he dumped her in May and by June she would of definitely known when she texted him.
Also, remember on the text messages to Kim from Phil…Kim probably picked the ones that made Phil look like the instigator which she knew would of hurt Lina the most. Kim never sent a text thread just Phil’s text. I figure after the Steamboat fiasco Kim started to feel him pulling away from her.
Laura said one time that Phil would of never wanted to know nor would he ask Lina what happened between her and Nick.
Laura, what an awesome gift you have!!!!! Have read thousands of books & these 2 are in the top 5!!!! Just found these awesome books. Read & reread about 10 times. I kept rereading them b/c I was trying to find answers to questions I had. So so glad I found this blog ( new to this, so please forgive any mistakes) The extra scenes read here answered a lot of them! Some parts just drove me crazy??? ??? Why was Phil so cold & hateful after Lena got texts & pics. Just deal with it??? What was said to that evil conniving Kim after each hateful act of hurt she dealt Lena? Lena was trying so hard to keep her family togrther but hit after hit of hurt?? No just NO!! Had to keep reminding myself, just a story, but gosh I got into these books mentally!!! Another part that drove me crazy was her kids. Her son, I was so proud of him! standing by his mom. The girls????? Their mom just got slapped with the worst hurt, & so what????? Her Mom?????? just get over it???? So THANK YOU for this blog… your gift of story telling & hours & hours, sometimes late into the night entertainment!!!! God bless & KEEP writing!!!
Thank you, Sharon! I appreciate you kind words — makes me smile.
In my experience, the more alpha the male, the angrier they get when they make a mistake — Phil was devastated by what was unfolding, but instead of crying and begging for forgiveness, which would have been completely out of character, he got angry. He wasn’t angry at Lina. He was always angry at himself, but he didn’t have the skills to separate his anger from Lina. He was like a little boy having a temper tantrum.
Yes, when I read the extra scenes here, I saw where you were going with it! I LOVED the one where he moved out then saw Kim!!! It all settled in my mind.then. So so glad I found this blog!!!! I could tell you put your heart & soul into the writing with the depth of characters & story line. Glad I could make you smile, this old lady believes in giving credit for a job well done!!! I have read all your books & waiting for more awesome reads from ya! Thank you!!! Blessed be!!!
Hi everyone,
To echo what Laura said, where has everyone gone 🙂? I ve busy with work and daughters are back to playing club sports so no free time for me.
I just thought of something. I know during the affair Phil was escaping, but was he ever afraid Lina would find out? He was careless at times like with the running group and touching Kim in public in New York.
Also I remember Lina saying to Nick that she didn’t Phil’s affair affected Katie or something to that effect and Nick said don’t be fooled she “Katie” cared. What did he mean by that because Katie truly seemed unaffected by the affair and Liam. If anything she thought now Phil could not expect his kids to be perfect.
I am new to this blog but I want to begin by saying I have enjoyed all of Laura’s books. I just read all of them over the holidays for the first time. You made me love these characters and at the same time ( yes you Phil) want to rip your eyebrows out. I have a quick question. How would the reconciliation between Lina and Phil have played out if after Lina read Kim’s text and Phil asked her what time Logan’s game was the next day and she responded “ why are you trying to figure out how you can find a few hours for Kim since Monday is too far away”
Would he have admitted to the affair and if so how would Lina have reacted since the affair was still in full swing even though in Phil’s mind it was winding down but he obviously was still not ready to cut Kim out of his life. Would she have asked him to leave immediately?
Hi Deb!
Welcome to the blog.
Interesting question. I think Phil would have denied an affair at that point. And if he admitted it — yes, Lina would tell him to leave.
Welcome Deb..Like you, I read A Sense of Belonging and then binge read her other two books in the same weekend with WPF being the last. Then hopped on this blog and we got the pleasure of Phil’s redemption in SN Loved them all..Can’t wait to see what questions you have or thoughts you’re thinking.
You are correct… selfish is a better word for Phil’s attitude during his affair
He admits that to Deb. That’s why I’ve always believed in his redemption. Chapter 47 of WPF sold me on him. The entirety of SN back that up for me. You said how could he have no guilt because Lina was his soulmate, he told us in SN he would live with the guilt of his betrayal for the rest of his life. Lina even had to berate herself a few times for having butterflies and an emotional connection with Nick, because he wasn’t Phil. They both screwed up.
I was planning on rereading WPF and SN
when we go on a trip south for a few weeks to get away from the cold and snow. I find that if I read a book a second time I always see things I missed or misread the first time around. I don’t usually read books more than once but Laura’s characters tug at your heart strings and deserve a second go around.
I thought the same thing that if he confessed to an affair she would tell him to leave. Would he have gone to see Kim to end the affair immediately or would he have waited until his trip with her the next week. I think it would have been a little bit harder for Lina to come to terms with the affair and forgive Phil since the affair was still ongoing and not something that Phil had ended of his own accord. Would he have ever told Lina that Kim intentionally came to his firm to seduce him and destroy his marriage? I had a hard time coming to terms that he didn’t appear to feel any regret or guilt during the affair especially when he was home with Lina, the love of his life.. ( the scene where he had just gotten home from his trip in the beginning of WPF and he was so cool to Lina) I know we didn’t see any of the actual affair in real time ( which is good) but I got the impression that he was in “poor me” mode during the affair that he didn’t think too much about it until the affair came to light. Maybe Lina should have said “ I will leave and you can take care of the kids”. Good luck with that buddy.
Deb. Phil wouldn’t have made a special trip to end the affair. Because Kim wasn’t special. He would of been working on Lina and trying to get his life back. During their reconnection in the first chapter of WPF the affair was ongoing and that text and tie confirmed it. Lina stayed up to try and get their relationship back on track. Also, Lina and Phil were cool to each other. Lina was confiding in Nick and Phil had his physical relationship with Kim in a neat little box separate from his family.
My impression of Phil’s character would never have a poor me moment. Now a selfish moment absolutely.
Hi Deb and welcome!
If Phil had confessed after being confronted by Lina, I have always thought that Lina wouldn’t have kicked him out. She was already suspecting something before he broke it off with Kim and my thought is that she would have kept him in the house. She already had strong suspicions he was cheating like changing his phone password. She was willing in my mind to “not know”.
But seems I was wrong because Laura says Lina would have kicked him out. If that happened I don’t think he would have thought about breaking it off with Kim immediately or the following week, but not because he cared about continuing the affair. He would have ignored her. I think his only concern would have been to keep Lina and his family. After all, he never never wanted to lose his wife. Heck, he was willing to sleep with Lina and profess his love to her during Christmas even while believing at the time she was or had been with Nick.
Yes, I think Laura said in the past it would have been harder to forgive the affair if she had caught him in the middle of it. I don’t think he would have told Lina that Kim came to his firm to seduce him because that would be admitting that he was easy pray for Kim and he was a fool. He doesn’t want to look a fool in her eyes.
Sadly, during the affair he was not doing a lot of thinking or self reflecting so there wasn’t room for a lot of guilt until after he came out of the fog.
I have often wondered what the first conversation between Adele and Phil was like after she found out about the affair. Did she call him or text him to give him a piece of her mind? Adele was hurt personally, hurt for her sister, and very very angry with Phil.
In the scene Lina finds out about Kim and the running group, she leaves the house and tells Phil to leave her alone. What did Phil say to Adele after Lina left, did he give Adele the details about why Lina left?
Holley — what you say is true — Lina was willing to “not know”, so Deb’s question was basically taking Lina out of character, so I suppose I was answering for the Lina who would confront Phil in the moment — the Lina of today, but certainly not the one we met in WPF. And yes, I agree Phil wouldn’t even think about running to Kim to break it off. She wouldn’t even be on his mind except for the role she played in jeopardizing his marriage. And Phil always took full responsibility for having the affair so he would never blame Kim for his role.
I think Adele would confront Phil and tell him what was on her mind. There would me no mincing of words or forgiveness. She was too disappointment in him. Time was the only thing that could heal their relationship.
And no he wouldn’t give Adele details. He would just say they had a fight and he was worried about Lina.
Hi Holley….I don’t think Phil was worried about being caught. His secretary and coworkers were loyal to him. When the affair was heated I believe Kim was the only associate that traveled with him. Also. Phil would of been professional during working hours in New York as well. Lina didn’t know anyone in the running group, if they had he sure wouldn’t of left with her.
I also think (my opinion only) that Katie was the child most like Phil in academics, personality and stubbornness. I think Katie was more disappointed than anything. Remember her saying to Phil when they told the kids about the affair, that their family was now like everyone else. That Alice was right that are no monogamous relationships. She liked the fact that Phil was no longer perfect and therefore he couldn’t hold her or any of them to that standard anymore. I also think a lot of her bond with Liam was because of Matt and his illegitimacy. She wanted to make sure her dad was a good dad to Liam and that felt loved.
Couldn’t have said it better myself — nice reply Tracie!
Thanks Tracie!
Laura I don’t think we ever knew you cried while writing the shower scene. I remember you have a rough time getting through the picture scene. It brought tears to my eyes as the reader. Remember me wondering if Phil would have followed Lina and heard here breaking down? I think he might of and I say that because he disregarded her wishes in SN over the shirt and followed her.
Another pivotal scene for me was the one with Megan after she met Kim. When he came down the stairs and told Lina that she didn’t say anything to him that he didn’t deserve. I remember thinking this kids opinion hurt him the worse. Because he had never not been nothing but perfect in her eyes.
Lord my comments need edited, but you get my drift…LOL
I don’t think he would have followed her in the WPF shower scene. He had just broken her heart and there was nothing he could say. In fact, his presence would have most likely brought on more pain. In SN he said something stupid and he knew it. He wanted to continue apologizing.
And yes, seeing Megan’s pain broke his heart.
Where did everyone go?!?!?!
I was in New York City for for a few days watching my daughter’s dog and expected to have lots of posts to catch up on. Instead everyone has disappeared!
Hope you are all somewhere warm! It is so cold on the East Coast right now!
And hi Tami — thanks for the message!
Laura!!
I am still checking the blog daily🙋🏻♀️, waiting for ESRA and every one~to post.
ps, I have been reading Whitney, My Love inconsistently, don’t know why😮💨, normally I could finish a book overnight but this time, I got distracted constantly and had to find a coffee shop each day for a special 1-2 hour reading session😮💨 of it. In the meantime, I finished the books Janet recommended😂, one of the distractions.
Ugh — sorry you aren’t enjoying Whitney My Love! Don’t torture yourself.
Did you like the novel Janet suggested? I couldn’t get past the writing style — the author doesn’t write in paragraphs enough for me. She writes four sentences in a row on separate lines — it happens way too often for it not to be a distraction. Sigh
Oh no! I didn’t notice this at all. I thought it was so good but I generally love YA/NA. What is wrong with me?? Heard it from a Love Song was really good but I loved The Girl He Used to Know more. I remember staying up late into the night to finish that one but Love Song took me 3 days to finish. Still, Graves is one of the few authors I will always one click.
Berenice, I understand about Judith. She was my favorite too in the 90s like every other girl but I tried rereading her books 10 years ago and they didn’t conjure up the same feels. Did you dislike Interferenfes duet too?
Janet,
I refreshed the page after posting and found your new reply!
My thoughts about the series are below😌.
I read the duet…but the first book I started skimming at 60%. Way to much detail for me. I like a little back brief on the couples history. I don’t like a lot of flashbacks either. The first book was their history from 12 to 18 and it was to much for me. The second book I also skimmed but was more interesting for me because it was present and his redemption. However, it could have been wrapped up in about 270 pages.
OK Tracie. I agree with you regarding the length and the second book kinda bored me but still gave 5 stars for writing. I was into all the ow drama in the first and found the hero cute. Thanks for reading.
Haha~actually I am still not sure if I like it or not, as I haven’t finished it yet😂, not even half of it😮💨.
I got distracted more probably because I received a new task from the supervisor, preparing a new bibliography for her new research project. I am multitasking unproductively and “mood-swinging” all the time because of that😮💨. Janet’s book and the sequence were an easy distraction for me to escape both😂.
Speaking of Janet’s recommendation, I am not sure of the plot and the H… and h!. The writing was kinda forgettable and unimpressive but not bad (sorry Janet, don’t be mad🥺). When the writing is like that, I tend to just push for the plot, skimming what happened and reaching for the ending! So I would say that H&h’s relationship in the books was both “well developed” and unsatisfactory. All the conflicts and dramas are more or less mechanic or OTT even. H’s mother abandonment issue or aligned father-son fate/mistake or h’s idea of relationship and her life choice……I feel unsatisfied😮💨. One of the biggest flaw probably is writer’s depiction of a supposed grand-scheming level determined H. The idea of it is kinda “hot” that he had this whole plan to have a throughout “play” for a “second chance”. It would be interesting to have a final break-down of counter act from h. Instead, we get a whole series of counter acts from h and I basically lost focus. Writer definitely needs to present a more compact/snappy narrative pacing. The pacing is frustrating!
All the events are like a series of flow on the surface without depth.
This is her debut series so she probably had a not bad plot idea but her rendering was not good enough to catch up what she wanted to present.🤔
Lol. I was not on meds reading the duet so it must be my problem. Ahaha. I thought she was fantastic portraying kids growing up in Chesapeake Bay with ott emotions only teenagers can display. Of course I’m not mad! We exchange book recs here and we all have diff opinions which is what I most like about Laura’s blog. Tracie calls me Salt because I was always criticizing Phil but honestly Nick is just a better man all around in my universe. Have you read any good cheating novels lately that hasn’t been discussed here? I would appreciate any recs. Thx!
Hi gang!
Happy New Year! I don’t wanna get involved in Phil drama again when I’ve finally settled things with him in my head so I’ll let the new crew go at it. 🤣Meanwhile, I have a book rec for Tracie and Laura and others who like ow drama and excellent, excellent writing. Harlow Cole’s Interferences duet. I absolutely adored it! She’s a new find for me and really got me out of my romance book hump. Her writing is almost as good as our Laura’s and she’s from the DC area. It’s NA genre but the second book is all about his redemption and we all know how much Tracie loved Phil’s. The MC is an alpha through and through. Please read it and let me know your thoughts!
Tracie, I sent you an email via GR but I don’t think it was sent. Do you have 2 accounts? Much love!
To be honest J-Girl I don’t know what I have on GR. LOL…. GR is hard for me to navigate
Tracie, it’s not hard at all. It’ll be easy like our fb group K set up. Just go on and accept my friend request and I’ll take you from there. It’s where M, K, and I chat. None of us are all that active but when we find a good book, we comment there. Meanwhile get the Interferences through KU, she is a damn good writer.
Hi Janet!
Thanks for the recommendation. It’s been too long since I’ve loved a novel. I’ll check it out!
Miss you! Laura
Laura what am I under on goodreads Dawn or Tracie?
I found mine…J-Girl…it’s Tracie Howard. I have two friends Miri and Katie. I have no messages or friend requests….
Ok Tracie, I will send you another one. I think I requested to Dawn.
Laura, what have you been reading? non romance recs are welcome. I started Heard It in a Love Song by Tracey Garvis Graves today. So far so good.
I’m reading Golden Girl by Elin Hilderbrand — Good so far — about 25 percent in. Have you read her?
Heard it in a Love Song looks good — let me know.
I DNF 28 Summers bc of the couple. I get depressed with the star crossed lovers theme so I read the ending and never went back.
Will let you know about Love Song.
I think sometimes reader try to be too realistic about Phil and fling but realistically speaking we are not talking about a man who thought how dull his life had become and saw a beautiful woman he could have fun with. He wouldn’t have been in love with Lina if that was the case and lina reconnecting wouldn’t have made a much difference.
Kim was an ace attorney she was sure of herself and she was ready to destroy a family. By barriers I think Esra doesn’t mean physical barriers but there has to be a certain thing going on that alerted her to the fact that he wasn’t going to be her usual lapdog. So she got pregnant. Cold calculation or not she had showed that she didn’t want to be a mother and getting pregnant at the peak of her career was not her priority but she did because she wanted Phil. She would have thought who wouldn’t leave their wife for a woman like her since she was in the same league as Phil.
I am judging Phil from his inner thoughts because Lina was hurt and judging Phil affair from her point of view doesn’t give us much clarity because she wouldn’t have been able to see some reason we as a person/readers could see and understand, when she accuse Phil canceling their spring break vacation to go their with Kim he told her that wasn’t true.
Phil has never used the word affair in his inner thoughts. Meaning for him it was just a fling nothing more than that. To be clear by this I don’t mean that he ordered her to strip and she stripped… What I meant is that realistically speaking Kim was not that begging/crying type even when she had this sick infatuation she would have been able to see that Phil had drawn a line he would never cross until she takes the matter in her own hands.
So taking a picture (with Lina in the background where they both seemed happy) just because she could revisit the happy moments of her time seem really far fetch and unreasonable. She must have felt embarrassed by Phil rejection but she let it go because she didn’t wanted to show her cards that early.
She was in it for a long haul and I m sure she would have put things like emotional and intimate connections in the back of her mind thinking she would have him where she wanted him in no time.
Phil had rejected her very harshly in SN but she acted like she wasn’t really bothered by it. So I don’t think that Phil keeping a certain space during a time when he was having sex with her would have made a much difference.
Sorry but it is too funny and unrealistic.😂😂😂
She agreed to the affair even when he told her he wouldn’t leave Lina.
She would have agree to anything if it meant getting Phil into her bed. So saying she wouldn’t have the affair…. Emmm no I don’t think so.
Hi Mahira,
Are you talking about my comment?
I am saying that she had an infatuation that must be realized. So she would definitely conduct the affair/sleep with Phil(I never said she wouldn’t). And I am saying that if she think with her right mind, she would clearly know it’s a bad investment and stopped. As you can see, in SN, she was still infatuated with Phil for quite some time till she finally realized it’s not working.
And we discussed this before, she decided that Phil said in the beginning of the affair that he was not going to leave his wife. She agreed as well because I think she probably thought that this was not the first man to say such thing but later they all gave in emotionally. So in this case, i feel that she was still not thinking with her brain but her infatuation.
Also, what do you mean Phil keep a space??
Oh, i got it.
I wrote this one sentence about if she could know that far.
This is more a rhetorical say.
What I mean is she couldn’t see that far after. Plus her infatuation, she just operated herself based on the moment and each context she was in that was also in line with the story timeline. For example, using the example you pointed out, when she got the words from Phil that he was just fucking her and not going to leave Lina, she accepted but was thinking it’s flexible and workable. Because when she made that decision, the context was she met this man she “loved” and agreed to have affair with her. She didn’t really know anything about this man but she got a lot of data about other men (no other men could resist her). So she made the decision to proceed based on her experience and her sick infatuation.
So that’s what I am talking about. Her judgement was not omniscient she couldn’t know that far down the road that it’s two wasted year.
It was a sub argument to answer ESRA that because she was just a character not us readers so she could have all the figured out . So it’s not realistic to say that she was conspiring when she took the photo of Phil inSB. It’s more like another sick infatuation moment
😮💨typo: she couldn’t have all the things figured out.
Typo: she decided that Phil said in the beginning of the affair that he was not going to leave his wife was true for the moment.
We thought she took the photo before waking Phil up for the blow job.
That’s kinda what I am talking about. I mean she was an ace lawyer so she, from time to time, had sober moments that know this was not going to work. So like Laura said, she was desperate. Desperate, from what I see, meant a emotion investment(sick infatuation) and some “intelligent” calculations. That’s why I am saying that she didn’t let her mind working fully because she had infatuation. So she schemed plans that always backfired. Being reckless and sick infatuated made her do things that out of her cold character. Like zaincruise said that she was degrading herself. I would say not just herself but also her intelligence. See what she had done when she asked for Liam visitation? She didn’t make Phil and Lina so many angsty troubles and tortured them “effortlessly” and that was just her casual villainous move😮💨when she did not have any infatuation to him( well, she was back to the mode to only worship herself, ewww)
And talking about Phil’s inner thoughts. I mean I like that you always come back to his inner thoughts for interpretation. But Phil was also a POV like Lina’s self pity party hit me hard but Laura told me several times that Lina was only thinking what she saw and thought. So fling or affair, Phil already said out loud that he was fucking her and it’s a fling multiple times. He barely used affair in WPF as well, even in Lina’s POV.
Also, because the original Tracie question was about what Kim thought…… So the argument was more about Kim’s thought. Affair didn’t work as well as what Kim originally thought so she got pregnant. Or even she sent photos to Lina for a “get even” after being slapped was sequential as in behaviors/actions. We all know what she has done, we just trying to explore her thoughts?? Isn’t what we were doing?🧐🧐
I am not sure🤔. This would be too dramatic and not realistic.
I agree wth “ill-intention” as the overall vibe of Kim&Phil’s fling is sick and unhealthy. So everything she had done in the past with him entailed this doomy atmosphere luring from behind for an attack.
Kim took so many photos of him, those she sent Lina probably were chosen from the collection that she, after being slapped, thought could enrage Lina the most in order to make Lina break up with Phil. and I would say normal people rarely took that many photos of their lovers(they would do some loving moments like Lina took the one Phil was shaving). Kim’s behaviour was downright sick infatuation. She had this idea of wanting to own him. Also, when she took the photo with Lina’s picture in the background, I mean Phil sleeping on his side (maybe to the centre a little bit), using a smartphone to capture him sleeping, it was unlikely to not include night table in.🤔 She probably was “thrilled” that she was allowed to finally enter his space and got aroused ready for a play:her giving blowjob and naturally she expected later him fucking her. She was clingy all the way yet trying to play “cool” and it’s just Phil being too blind to notice her unnatural sick obsession.😮💨
She broke down Phil’s wall meaning they started the affair?? Phil was equally active in texting for making arrangements. Tbh, he cannot just went to her directly for sex arrangement during office hours. That would be utterly unrealistic. She was an associate probably in associates office(associates usually share office or some firms arrange separated office for the senior ones). It would be too obvious and not discreet. Texting means nothing but arrangement in my opinion. There’s simply no other way.
I remembered she texted minutes before Lina reaching out to reconnect stating “Monday is too far away.” it sounded all “normal” because Phil, even he confessed to Lina that his interest waned after SB, was not alarmed or annoyed by the text and was willing to see if there’s a chance to meet her during the weekend. Laura confirmed that if Lina did not reconnect with Phil, Phil would probably meet Kim during that weekend if he could figure out a way. I mean this was all grey and complicated.
If we don’t see Kim’s development as a whole because as reader we got the privilege to judge from hindsight and out of timeline, Laura said she had a general idea of each of them but when she wrote each scene, those characters would behave on their own(them running and flowing thru her typing fingers).
If we just view it as two persons having an affair, then what she did was all in line with cheaters would do (tbh most cheaters are not some innocent lovers driven by love, most of them were following lust and egos). Kim and Phil were persons living in the timeline scene after scene. They behaved according to their personality and the “current” context they were in. They cannot see past those to be conspiratorially omniscient🤔🤔
If Kim could know what happened that far after and have everything prepared, she would not even have affair with Phil. Because she gained nothing but two wasted years. There’s one question asking Laura if Kim regret the whole thing, Laura said no because Kim doesn’t look back , what’s done is done. So we could tell that she was not omniscient so she got bad investment. of course she had plans to seduce Phil but she had no idea how things would really play out. She had a lot of presumptions plus her own “drunk” infatuation which lead to her own destruction. She was not a kind person so she had no moral baggage to not attack Lina. She was being ruthlessly resourceful when sending photos to Lina. Tbh, a lot of women now were more or less like this. When being pointed out, they simply say they are not saints😮💨. Sending affair evidence to wife is now the number one thing for OW to do. I have a lot of first hand or second-hand experience about this. A lot of OWs, in this case, were a lot less intelligent than Kim but chose the same way of attack. I must confess when I read this in WPF, I was neither surprised or feel too hurt by Kim’s choice of attack(the photo content for me is more vital). The way of attack was lame(a lot of people used) but “effective”(Phil got kicked out).
So it’s simply unrealistic to see it as a months-planning attack mastered by her intelligence. If she planned weeks for this shots and to do it only for this attack, then she would be too lame and cheesy like MC in lifetime. 😮💨The more realistic view is a sick infatuated woman loved taking odd-hour photos of her married fling partner(her sick way of feeling possessive), later used it for a quick retaliation. Two birds with one stone: get even with the humiliation and got them separated.
There’re sober moments in Kim during the fling and there’re less “sober” moment in that period. When I say less sober, I was saying her sick infatuation compromised her judgment. If she was as “sober” as when she emailed Phil one year later for that Liam visitation (in that scene, she was soberly calculated, reaching the full potential of her villainous intelligence to be a villain), she would give up the relationship probably one month after the affair started, thinking it was a “bad investment”. She was a Columbia Law graduate, the first in class and a “killer” in office(I assumed) not a MC in lifetime🤔.
Speaking of Lina’s interior design taste that might display in SB, It is validated good but as some upper society snobs could get snarky against Picasso, I have no doubt that when Kim walked in SB, she would be dismissive toward Lina’s taste/decor. That’s just some entitled woman would do, maybe out of defensiveness or just being really dismissive of Lina’s style.😂
ESRA, do you remember the editor in Unsticky?? Kiki?
Kim is more like her. They were morally compromised but shrewd. Kiki was nice to Graciee later because Graciee was becoming more her league than before which was a strayed dog, abusing her at work place. But Kiki’s ephemeral warmth towards Graciee was also true. Kiki’s own choice of relationship was also deeply immoral, marrying a pig as a social ladder. I have no doubt that she slept with married men in the past and destroyed some families in the past. But they are who the are. Realistic and multidimensional. I found that my peers (uni friends and colleagues) liked to watch this kind of women and found them more entertaining than others😮💨. They don’t want to meet them in real life but appreciate them as some post-modern twisted art work. I, on the other hand, connected fictions to real life. I like Lina and wanted to meet a Lina in real life.😮💨
Thanks, everyone for the replies. We really appreciate it.
Girls I keep thinking about what I said about Kim knowing at SB that Phil was not leaving his wife based on Phils reaction when they got there…
I wondered what she thought looking at Lina’s style through the decor in her home? Did Kim in her narcissistic way of thinking, jump for joy that he brought her to his family vacation home? Could the picture taken at SB be the one that was taken with malicious intent because Phil wouldn’t sleep in the same room with her? What do you think was going through Kim’s mind that morning at SB when Phil pushed her off of him?
I was just wondering if any of you had thought these same questions in you own mind. I have plenty of times.
You are right Tracie, I remember I had same discussion with Berenice about the pics. Although I knew some of them were candid shot but the pic taken at the SB house was taken with ill intention because she made sure that Lina pic was in the background. I think she had taken that pic because she wanted to hurt Lina and break them up.
Most importantly she also wanted to test the waters. She sneaked in Phil room and took the pic and then she wanted to caught him off guard by giving him a blow job. But when he got angry 😡 at her she came to the realization how unimportant she was was in his life. And as a result became more clingy.
I think during the fling in early stages he was keeping a barrier between them as Laura said she broke down his walls and I am assuming that’s when the text started. And tbh she would have thought in her egotistical way then that she finally had him where she wanted because she had no clue how much Phil loves Lina since he was sleeping with her. SB house scene burst her bubble 🗯 LOL 😂
And sorry I digress but I personally think that Lina reconnecting had something to do with Kim message. She never suspected what was happening until the text. I know she could never thought that of Phil but I think it also shows how much distance she was from him.
Hi Tracie,
This one is tough because I have not spent a lot of time thinking about Kim’s point of view but I think several things happened. She had tried not to think about Lina a lot because that would be acknowledging fact Phil was sleeping with another woman. I think her focus was on winning Phil over so not thinking about Lina made that easier.
When she walked in their home, I believe she felt like she and Phil really had a shot since he brought her to SB then she walked around the house. I think envy then set in that Lina had Phil and the family wanted. I don’t believe Kim ever respected Lina so she would have looked down Lina’s style and thought it was not as modern as hers. She thought her taste was better and prettier just like she was.
The picture in the bedroom I m not so sure had malicious intent. I think she really was enamored with Phil and thought awww look at him sleeping. She probably wanted that picture to be something for herself later but not to necessarily to hurt Lina.
Phil not sleeping with Kim hurt Kim and I think she took the rejection at that time to mean he just doesn’t want to do it in his home not that he may be getting over me. She is a narcissist after all.
My question Tracie is why do you think Laura agreed to keep the details of the affair out of SN after your many requests/pleas. Laura can hold her own but you’re pretty convincing yourself😉.
Holley!
I agree with your answer regarding Kim and SB!
I think Laura said many times that she believes that it’s about surviving/moving past/coping with the consequence and she thought detail is not relevant. You guys were tenacious about having all the details in the past discussions, I could tell😌. So right now, I believed this was more Laura’s “philosophy” of marriage and moving on. She was very determined to what she believed!!🤔
Hi Bernice,
Yes, Laura wrote the book she wanted 🙂.
I used to hate books involving infidelity but after SN and WPF I expanded my book collection. Some cheating books are about redemption but have ton of details about the affair. Am always like why torture myself with these details and when it’s too much I skip forward 😒.
Hi Holley…I didn’t want the details of the affair because as adults we know the mechanics of an affair. I didn’t need to know how and when Phil was banging Kim. What I needed to know is how this couple was going to cope and hold onto their love and life after the affair. The way Laura wrote their characters another ending wouldn’t have been feasible they were meant for each other period. I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned this before, but just a few chapters into WPF, I went to the Epilogue to ensure Lina ended up with Phil and not Nick or I wouldn’t have been able to finish the book. Laura had me convinced a few chapters in that there was no way they wouldn’t be together. I didn’t want the details of how he wronged Lina, I wanted to see the fight of a good man righting that wrong. Which Phil accomplished in spades!
Loved your comments girls. I always imagined Kim thinking when she stepped into the foyer of the house.. “Nice but after the divorce I want something bigger.” She also thought him pushing her off of him in the bedroom was just a minor setback. I think Phil would of also dismissed her. Telling her he needed to shower and he would meet her downstairs. Close the door on the way out.
You read the epilogue!?!??!?! I don’t remember hearing this before! That’s cheating, Tracie!
Only in WPF. I couldn’t stand it Laura….by the time I hit like Chapter 6…I had to know….I was already team Phil….As a kid I always wanted to bet on a football game with my dad at halftime….What can I say😩
LOL — I get it. Sometimes I do that with movies. It becomes too intense and knowing the outcome lets me enjoy it.
Hi Tracie,
I totally get it!
I bought WPF but the Lina shower scene was very hard. I wasn’t sure I could finish the book. I decided to stop reading it. I bought SN, read it and then finished WPF.
I ve read both like 10 times each now. Interesting I always skip the shower scene after Lina finds out about affair, sad for Lina and I skip where Phil talks about his son after Liam’s birth after Lina told him she hated him. I understand he needed to say what he said I just didn’t like reading about it.
I am read SN again, lol.
I remember sobbing while I wrote the shower scene — ugh.
And I agree — Phil needed to say what he did about Liam, but it was hard to take.
Holley me too! When I reread WPF I read the shower scene because it is one of the scenes that really pull my emotions, but I almost get mad over him telling her he regrets how Liam was conceived, but not Liam. Then Alice soothes me by telling Lina…”how could he regret his own son.” He couldn’t, but I could feel Lina feeling like she was on the outside looking into Phil’s life. For the first time, they weren’t a team it wasn’t a child they conceived together. That was in Chapter 44 of WPF, I believe. That’s why Chapter 47 is one of my absolute favorite. Phil lays his heart on the table in that chapter.
After reading all of your comments I want to reread WPS and SN again!!! Don’t get me wrong
I will feel their pain but I will also feel their strong love 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 (swoon) 😂
I have to clear up something. The Thursday (last time Phil slept with Kim) was the Thursday before the Friday where him and Lina reconnected. SB was in April and the affair ended in early May. Another thing we concluded was when Kim sent Phil that message about meeting him on Saturday, after the tie incident, he never answered her, nor did he meet her. Go Lina…Because Lina and Phil had sexual that whole weekend. I can’t even imagine Kim’s desperation when he ended it knowing she was pregnant. It was probably like chasing boogers in the night..she didn’t know which way to turn.
Phil ended it on that Monday after him and Lina reconnected. I’m sorry you guys are having to decipher some of these comments, but I’m typing in a box the widthof a toothpick. Lol
Phil and Lina had sex all weekend ..not sexual LOL…I guess you could also say a weekend of sexual healing..That’s Right!
Yeah! Sexual healing, I would go with that definitely🧡!!
I meant to say Phil was happily infatuated with having sex with Lina😂. He was in drought(lack of meaningful sexual activities) for soooo long😮💨
Yes,Tracie🧡
I know!!😊
I remembered that you said something in the past post: Phil was lost in his refound sexual and emotional connection with Lina during that weekend, infatuated himself happily and ignored Kim completely.🧡
Once Lina reached out, the fling was dead immediately❤️
I remembered that I was sooo impressed while reading your analysis that within minutes(before Lina said I miss you and after that), Phil changed “drastically”, the affair was a history.😌😌
Don’t worry, Tracie. We learned all past conversations by heart🧡
Tracie Love your answers as always. I love reading your comments. I have been reading them from March 2021.
Thank God you can finally access the blog.
❤️
Berenice, I totally agree with what you said.
And I loved Vaughn too I think I had read it after fifty shades series in 2013 so you can imagine what a fresh breath of air it was. 😍😍😍
I loved Whitney my love can’t wait for your thoughts on that one.
LOL,
I know you are super busy!!But if you have time, you could listen to Sarra Maning’s interview with “sentimental garbage”(podcast)
She was “snarky” towards fifty-shades!!😂😂
I personally was auto-piloting between fanfics and original romance for years. so when it first published, I just thought this writer was testing water to promote herself from fanfic writing to original romance as a proper career. I was already rolling the eyes because how could it do better? In the end, it was just a fanfic of Twilight in disguise. The original book: Twilight is a uber-cliche to begin with😮💨
But it took off right away and got the film adaption opportunity😶🌫️
Still, I feel that the adaptation helped it gain disproportionate popularity for sure!!🤔🤔
Well Kim and Phil had lots of emotionless quickies and when I say emotionless I mean
in large part, guys could F..K anything, I said anything at all. For most guys it doesn’t have to do with love, affection or anything like that. With guys it is very possible you can make love with the person you love and have sex with the person you don’t love. Women are very emotional being and they have to feel attached for them to enjoy or have sex with the person.
Men can compartmentalize and can see sex as an act of desire without emotional connection.
I think Lina and Phil had a very adventurous relationship in the bedroom and their chemistry was off the charts. They did slow and they did fast. (fanning myself) so what I want to say is that sex with Kim was a downgrade (he went from the chocolate he was craving to the candy which was dangling in front of him. He felt desired by Kim which numb his rejection from Lina.) in other cheating stories I have read men turn from simple husband to Porn star instantly. (eye rolling alert ⚠) 😂 😂 😂
Yeah!!!
that book, If You Only Knew, one sister’s husband was like “Gosh, the sex with her(OW)”, he was explaining to wife that OW allowed him to have dirty sex no less than Porn!!
And , Alice said in one scene which was edited out:I am sure you two have explosive sex in bedroom all the time, the chemistry is sooo obvious and never stopped sizzling. I never saw any couple’s chart being more in tune than you two; you two are like BUNNIES and the attraction was obvious, always simmering under the surface for all to see😂😂
It’s from our wisest Alice😊I believed it!!
But I do want to stress that there’s this one situation in between (between Phil and “Porn stars”). I feel that some cheating Heroes try new things with OW because yes they needed a break from the marriage (problems in marriage and life) and new thing is new excitement, a distraction for a while. Like The Desperate Wife or The Perfect Marriage even The Adultery Club, husbands took full responsibility, did not belittle or over exaggerate their relationship with OWs. They just lost sight of their wives for a while. It’s not swoon worthy but I think it’s understandable and forgivable in real life.
It does not mean they think wife is dull, more like life was dull. In totality, they would say sex with wife is the best emotionally and physically. It’s kinda grey and ugly, human nature as well but it’s kinda understandable. I am sure a lot of women in real life would give a second chance and do live happily every after.🤔
Haha for him I think it was the hanky panky in the office.And Kim also gave him a lots of blow job 😉 😉 😉 but nothing in him doing something new with Kim.
Yeah, I agree~
I just got inspired and thought about an echelon between Phil and “Porn stars” (termed by Zaincruise😂)
Hi Girls! Tina Phil would of never separated from Lina, nor would Lina have kicked him out. Bet if you have a bet…I would say no he wouldn’t. He would be trying to get his life back just as he was doing in WPF and SN.
Now SB..Phil told us when he stepped into that foyer he saw Lina everywhere. He himself collided his two worlds. As long as he could keep them separated he could let the fog keep Lina from clear view. Him waking up to her giving him a BJ in Lina’s world made him furious not only with her, but I’m sure himself. He could no longer segregate in his mind his fling and his family. Once Lina extended the olive branch he was done with Kim.
Tracie😊,
During the weeks between SB and Lina reaching out, he still sporadically slept with Kim???😳
I mean, it was quite obvious🤔
Yes he did Berenice. But we concluded in our original discussions that after SB Phil had started to pull away. We also talked about Kim getting a little more clingy . I always wondered if Kim took Phil’s actions at SB as a wake up call that he’s really not leaving his wife. Phil also came home early on Friday from that business trip the night him and Lina reconnected. That’s how we concluded he was pulling away. He could of stayed longer with Kim if he would of wanted to.
I know!! I read all you guys’ conversations many many times!!
It’s just Tina’s question made me uncertain about this detail😳
I could be uncertain of myself very easily😂😂
Tracie, thank you for the reply!!!🧡
ESRA,
I think a lot of readers didn’t realise that it is way worse if cheating Heroes actually had a lot of thoughts regarding his affair and OW. When I say “thoughts”, I meant to say cheating heroes thought a lot of what was the nature of the affair he was having, what position this OW took in his life or what feeling he really had for this OW. Even he concluded that in every aspect, this woman was less than his wife, it was still a strong evidence for a”worse than Phil” character. If any cheating heroes had that much of inner thoughts going on, he was basically a “weak” person(Phil’s weak as he said himself but different kind of weak) that couldn’t find another solution. For Phil, yes, he also had a choice but he didn’t have that much “time” allowing him to really calm down. He just “got” the affair done in the whirlwind. Does it make sense??
I hate lines such as “I only slept with her once/twice”(n Heart of the Matter) or”I wrapped up because I had this whole thing figured out: only go bare with you.”(inhale, exhale) or “I didn’t have orgasm or enjoyed much”(in any cheesy cheating YA)
Those lame excuses irritated me!! Just Own it!!!
Haha, Vaughn is definitely not perfect. I just love him being his type of cruel😂😂.
And, I don’t know😮💨😮💨 but I disliked the wife more than the husband in Inhale, Exhale.
It’s kinda related to what you said yesterday about “even the score”(classic words from Diane).
Two aspects,
First, from writing perspective, it seems that readers recent days have very positive response to wife physically slept with OM during separation or under more dubious condition. So a lot of writers wrote that as a pure “market” decision, which I hate.
Secondly, It seems that writers of cheating books think that Heroines had to cross the physical line to get even with “something”, having a heartfelt moment with OM before reconciling with husband. It doesn’t make sense in my mind.Using Inhale, Exhale as an example, I felt that this heroine basically had a full blown affair with brother-in-law to make herself feeling good. It was not just because of the affair, it went on long before the affair. It made me want to puke(ewww). I am not unreasonable double standard. The Adultery Club gave us a much more reasonable context and rationale for a comforting sexual relationship between Heroine and OM after Heroine separated from husband. But Inhale, Exhale and some other cheating books such as The Mill house made heroine a needy, immature, no better than cheating husband character, seeking emotional attachment and physical comfort the minute after their marriage was in trouble. Lina, comparing to them, was sooo mature and she knew herself well, her identity in the marriage and as an individual (shaking but still firm) and she had the ability to do self-reflection after being cheated. Heroine being responsible to herself is what I regard the most in a book. Even flawed and jaded Graciee could do that!!😮💨😮💨
ESRA!!
Got the parcel!!
I am going to read Whitney, My Love today with a piece of chocolate gateau😊
Haha Berenice that is a exactly what I wanted to say. He was quite secure in the knowledge that his Lina was home and would always be his. ( In inhale and exhale OK, he was angry at the wife but not taking care of your own daughter who loves you while you play daddy with other woman’s child was very bitter pill for me to swallow.) I agree! he was still doing it but not as much as during those two months remember I had also thought the same thing.
We all swoon at him (Phil) while you would look at him with your eye brow raised and saying ‘I am not going to let you off the hook that easily.’
But don’t worry when you will be swooning at Vaughn I will act in same manner. 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Happy reading Berenice! ❤️ Let’s see how you will react 😉
Reply button is finally working!!!
Thank God!!! ❤️
Phil was not innocent and he knowingly continued the affair to make himself feel “okay” but the back thought during this whole time was his Lina was home and his. (still ugly and selfish but much better than being lame😮💨) By being lame cheater, I was referring to the cheater in inhale, exhale. Omg, that cheater even had this whole inner thought of why he would use condom to distinguish his feeling for OW and his love to his wife…..this kind of thought-out/thought-thru made him lame and ridiculous.😮💨😮💨
Talking about his sexual activities with Kim. Since I was probably the most desensitised reader with regard to talk about it😂, I would say, it happened daily for the first two months. After SB, it was probably down to two or three times a week. Just thinking realistically, with book evidence, he was still planning sex date with her via texts before Lina reconnected with him minutes after.
Also, Tracie said that the last time he slept with her was that Thursday, not he only slept with her that Thursday after SB.
Tracie, Katie, Janet and Laura had lengthy conversation regarding that. Tracie, Janet and Katie and others knew that Phil&Kim were still having sex but were curious if they had sex on this “final” business trip
so they asked Laura if he had sex with Kim right before he went back home, reconnected with Lina and had sex with Lina. It made sense because of being realistic. It certainly made him “PIG” but was consistent with the plot and his personality. Remember how cold he was before Lina reached out??😮💨😮💨
Hi Tina,
Emmm, I totally agree with ESRA and Zaincruise. Phil and Lina are not that kind of couple that would do couple therapy or “taking a break”. Kinda weird😳
It all happened in a whirlwind. It’s not chronicled as they fought and their love were cooling down. Their love is quite unconventional and one of kind. Even during the affair, Phil was immensely in love with Lina. Fling just happened when he was dealing his “problem”. IF Phil and Lina had time to sit down and decide a break from each other, they definitely would reconnect immediately.
And he was still functioning in his part of the affair after SB. So he still texted Kim and fucked her from time to time. Only sleeping with her on that Thursday is tooo illogic and unrealistic. To repeat, this is not an unrealistic romance story.😊
Also, Laura explained before, men sometimes, no matter how ace they are in work, could be very blind to women’s scheme(women like Kim).
No, I don’t think so because as far as I am concerned I think he can’t function without Lina by his side. firstly he would never let Lina out of his sight and secondly, he would have been too worried about what she was doing and other men hitting on Lina, LOL.
Laura had said once the affair was exposed he realized he could lose Lina. So, I don’t think he would have started anything with Kim.
Hello girls, We have a question if you can answer it please do and forgive us if it seems stupid.
but what we wanted to know is that if Lina&Phil had decided to take a break because of all the fights that were happening between them because of Katie’s situation and then Kim had tried to seduce Phil would he have cheated then?
and please can you tell us what did he meant when he said he couldn’t look at Kim without thinking about Lina after the SB…did he stop texting her. and only had sex with her on Thursday as Tracie said in the previous post.
sorry if we are being rude with something you have already answered but our friends have placed a bet on it and now we can’t wait to see who is right and who is wrong!
And Laura please don’t think about haters, think about us who love your writing. Alice was my favorite character, for her Phil was like a son she never had, and the way Phil would fix her house let me know how much he loves her also.
I second that Esra.
tbh Tina his fling with Kim was more of a reckless decision on his part. It wasn’t that well-thought-out plan. He never thought too much about his rendezvous with Kim. He was an ace attorney so reading and observing people was a part of his job and in Kim situation, the writing was on the wall but he was still unable to get a hint of her dirty tricks until he became known to fact that she wanted to trap him long before he met her. Means! He didn’t think too much about Kim during and after the affair. That’s why she was a means to escape only. He was surprised and shocked over his actions which also exposed his state of mind at the time.
Phil and Lina weren’t a “taking a break” kind of couple. No way would they have ever decided to step apart w/out the Kim aspect.
And SB was the beginning of the end of Phil and Kim. The escape Kim offered deteriorated because at the Steamboat home Phil’s world crashed together. The moment Kim entered his world, the fog began to lift. Kim was no longer separate from his life with Lina.
If my memory serves me right I think Colleen hover and Tarryn fisher had written a novel called Never Never where both Hero and Heroine had cheated with other people many times and had broken up but since they were soul mates some mysterious things had started to happen to them! I read it too long ago so I don’t remember much but it had made me crack up so bad. I love that Lina&Phil connection was more original and deeper.
Zaincruise !! I love you girl.
Thank you so much, Tracie, …My studies are going really well(although those ‘dates’ and ‘acts’ drive me crazy sometimes) and I always check the blog to see what you girls are discussing, love you all.
Berenice, you should have definitely picked chocolate gateau…LOL
Zaincruise I love it when you can pop in and talk with us. Hope your studies are going well….You are a sweetie…all you girls are….
Omg, Zaincruise…
This is a completely different thing but I have to say…My neighbourhood patisserie reopened today after owner’s holiday vacation. I went there for something sweet. Between cappuccino cheesecake and chocolate gateau, I chose cappuccino cheesecake. Your mention of chocolate cake made me regret😮💨😮💨
Now I want chocolate gateau😂😂
Love you, Laura, YOU ARE THE BEST!
Please don’t listen to those haters and keep writing because we love you so much.
Laura, I totally feel for you! But you can never make everyone happy. People always find faults in everything. You can’t live your life according to the rules they set for you. You have your own voice and your own choices to make. You are not forcing them to buy your books, if they don’t like chocolate they shouldn’t have ordered double layered chocolate cake.
My mom always told me that ‘people only throw shades on what shines’
AND YOU SHINE THROUGH THE CHARACTERS YOU HAVE WRITTEN!
Love you!
Tracie is right! Focus on the people who love you and admire you DOLL! (I love it when Tracie calls you that).
I’d take 3 to 1 any time betting on you!
Laura always remember doll…haters are going to hate…but for every negative cynical person hating, you have three of us that love and adore you and appreciate your talent.
physically (TYPOS)
Berenice agreed! I remember a writer Danielle Lori is going to publish a book with a cheating husband (I think she is still working on it)and she said she didn’t believe the hatred and negative comments she received for something they haven’t really read it. she said she doesn’t care.
but something tells me I already know what is she going to do.
she is going to make the Heroine cheat too. it’s a new way for the writer to redeem the hero, if they both cheat pysically they are even. LOL
After I received all the hate for WPF and Swimming Naked, I decided I was no longer going to publish my writing. I have always wrote for my own pleasure and if sharing it with others brought such a backlash, I couldn’t see the point. It’s actually upsetting — spending a year nurturing a plot and characters and then have people attack you — personally even. Alice was based on my mother, so attacks on her were the worse to me. But, I think I’ve come around. I just wish I could keep the haters from being able to buy my novels.
Dear Laura,
I truelly believe that being hated by the mob is something you should be proud of. The very vocal group that hates loudly, may it be in politics, literatue or immunization, is so self ratious. There are never grey areas in their world. Therefore, the absolute truth will always be on their side. So, not being part of them and liked by them is a badge of honor 😉
I must say that Alice was absolutely one of my favorites (perhaps because she reminded me of my free spirited mother), and the father, this unrelenting nerd, also a great character!
So, please, for the sake of the rest of us, remember that you bring so much color to our lives. Your novels are captivating and although I read them a few years ago, I keep going back reading them, reflecting on them and the characters became part of my live, like Jane Ayre, Mr Rochester and others.
P.s, pardon my English, this is not my language and I read in English as so many good books are not translated to Hebrew
Tami,
Thank you! I love how you put that — a badge of honor. You are right!
And I am honored that you keep going back to these characters!
Thanks for posting — made me smile!
Laura
🙋🏻♀️If I could explore a little bit what did “grovel” mean to these critics, I would say when those critics want more “grovel”, they were talking about a lot of repetitive actions and lines from Hero with teary eyes while Heroine played hard “game”, which simply means a lot of exhausting post-cheating push&pull. Personally, I think this formula is very lame and banal. and when I say they were disrespecting/being inconsiderate to each book’s context, this is a classic example of it😶🌫️. They preoccupied themselves arrogantly with how things should be when read a new book.
ESRA, speaking of flawed heroes, in this case, when those critics flip-flop on Phil or other flawed Heroes, they usually stress that they accept flawed heroes but don’t see they(Phil) actually grow. I think this is another example that a lot readers simply have a mould in their mind: even how flawed Heroes grow should fit in the existing mould in their mind.😶🌫️😶🌫️(shaking head)
Gosh, I really paid a lot of attention to all the comments on Goodreads after reading WPF&SN for the first time. I not only analysed their contents but also critiquing on why they said that, profiling what kind of readers are they😮💨.
Same goes to women render reality thru their own wishfulness, like they proclaim they would leave after discovering cheating but once happened they chose to forgave or they thought they understand men/or book heroes in their wishful way and got frustration when they were not like that at all. Laura, I completely agree! These “expectation” set people up for disappointment!! I must say it’s kinda like a nature for people to presume over life or books, at least to me. So what I have learned so far is to prepare myself humbly for being challenged or convinced and my cognitive reality would be better😮💨
love this Berenice!
Tracie!! You are the best ❤️❤️❤️ totally agree 👍
Here’s another thought girls if the man is crying, begging etc, he might as well be the heroine and not the hero…My Phil manned up….That’s Right!
LOL I love you Tracie
God! it’s a nightmare! 😱 But then I already knew it…. Just hope everything works out.
I was missing the blog so came back to check and saw a lots of my comments for Phil has disappeared 😭😭😭. But I will be back to defend my Phil.
Don’t be mean to him. LOL 😂
Esra!!! ❤️ Love it girl.
I’m sorry Mahira. I am praying I can get them all back — there were some really great comments.
Mahira and I had this long discussion off the blog on Goodreads about Phil and him feeling the pain and anger he must have felt before the affair and we both agreed that she may have made it numb for him but she didn’t make it go away. That is why I came up with a painkiller simile. Because despite being with her what he truly wanted and desire was Lina, only she could make it all go away. And Berenice as you said that Lina was still on his mind during the affair Mahira and I came up with this logic that Lina had been on his mind but with her, he also had months of rejection pain, and feelings of failure that’s why the SB house made him see the error of his way because they had lots of beautiful memories there and he was able to see the life he and Lina had created together and the fog which was created by his sense of failure and need for escape had started to thin at that point. But since Lina was responsible for the distance she had created she had to take that first step toward Phil. And once Lina touched him with want everything became history. ( Because one moment with Lina was gazillion times better than those four months with Kim).
Tracie!
That’s why I am a little scared to start them. but if they are anything like LINA&PHIL then I won’t have any problem. because give me those two for the rest of my life and I would never read anything gladly.
Tracie! love you … I seriously don’t know why would those readers prefer it that way. (gosh! at this point I am ready to give my left kidney for another book about them) I was soooooooo scared while I was reading SN because zaincruise didn’t give me any spoilers and I was prepared to chuck my kindle on the wall if Phil had played family with Kim (Ewwww) but thank God he didn’t. Laura is hundred percent right about him blocking the pain.
My Phil would never beg…Sincerity and action bears begging in my book any day….Chapter 47 WPF…he took full responsibility.
Bronze Horseman Killed me…It was so long I didn’t finish it….Janet made fun of me Lol
What you said about Phil was totally right!! I love you for giving him to us.
Crying big fat tears and begging on knees means nothing to me. You need to show with your actions.
LAURA! you are right! That’s why I love your writing. And before I forget, say Hello to the New hot doc for me…
Flawed hero are my favorite and I can’t wait to start it…
Berenice, it would be so fun! ❤️
Maybe I should start the series with you!!🤔
ESRA!!
Oh My!!
Bronze Horseman was heavily discussed by Laura, Tracie and other girls in the blog!!
I read some comments about the series here but not sure if I am ready for the background setting, from Russian revolution to Vietnam war so I just shelved it for another day😮💨
Loved Bronze Horseman! Very flawed H and it’s so long. I think I liked book 2 the best but it was so satisfying to be able to keep reading about his couple!
And how about the phrase “actions speak louder than words”. Phil’s apologies meant nothing to me without action. It is so easy to say the right thing. My grandmother never said I love you, but there was never a doubt in my mind that she loved me.
Another thing I liked about our adorable Gracieee and Vaughn is the element age, how it was constructed thru plot.
I know that in age gap romance, if readers want it “healthier”, then the heroine would simply have an “old soul” and was attracted to an amazing older man. The climax conflict was around how to handle external pressure.
But when dealing with more realistic age gap works, heroines probably must have flaws(past baggages) like Graciee. it had nothing to do with “fetish” or some other psychologic dramas. simply because, when it comes to big age gap (over 20 years), not too many young girls (barely age twenty) would fall in love with 40 plus yr old man (it happens but it’s either “old soul”logic or something more complicated). In Gracie and Vaughn’s case, it’s obvious that Gracie felt lacking and she was passing thru life without any anchors/or fateful crossing (paraphrasing from Sarra Manning).she was lonely without a “spirit shelter”. Vaughn gifted her something that made her world brighter, broader and meaningful as she was crossing him not just flew by like they both did in the past. Ultimately Vaughn filled a void of her, making her feel less lacking. It is very crucial. Her “passing by life” existence caused her loneliness and lacking. Older man came forward offering “guidance”. She, in return, gave him love and warmth. It is not the healthiest relationship but the power dynamic(not healthy but progressing) between these two was soooo on point, fascinating! just like what I could imagine in a more realistic age gap relationship 😊😊
totally agree!
If you go through my shelf you would know the Heroes I have read were all hated by most of the readers because they didn’t fit their versions of romance boyfriend. But I love them.
Berenice, I am going to start Paullina Simons Bronze horseman series I wanted to start them before I read WPS but I was so much sucked into Lina&Phil love story I couldn’t just read anything for quite a while.
Recently a friend told me to give it a go because it had all the angst I crave so much. Have you read it??
What’s your final verdict on that book!!
I can’t stomach fairytale type of story…. People read fluffy, easy, warm all the time and they are quite popular but I can’t… They made me Yawn 😦!!
As far as I am concerned I like my heroes a little more on original and imperfect side…because watching a character learn from the mistake and becoming that person we hoped he’d be makes reading experience truly enjoyable for me.
Lina’s pain and Phil remorse felt real to me. Phil was a character who took all the blame on himself and never pointed out to Lina’s fault which I think created this illusion in readers mind. My poor baby has suffered enough as it is. I like him as he is…. 😉 I wouldn’t change it for anything! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ I don’t want grovel I wanted him to show Lina with his actions what she meant to him… And Boy did he!!
He not only won Lina but also won me over.
Tbh… I don’t have any problem with my phone..nothing can keep me away from the blog.
ohhhh!
unrealistic/fairy tale characters and stories (typo)😂
Also, some readers made me feel that they don’t get reality in their real life. They just expect that, thru some “rosy glasses”, what they comment/demand is what their reality look like. Does it make sense??😮💨
I find too many people literal. Life is not that simple. The world is gray, not black and white. Also, expectations in novels or life set you up for a huge disappointment.
Yes, you make perfect sense. People convince themselves that they are a certain way, but the reality is so different. I know so many women who have forgiven affairs — more than one. These are the same women who would have said that they would never.
Hi Laura!
I have to say if it is just unrealistic/fairy tale endings, then I would stomach them actually😳, like some vintage HP or Mills&Boons (good plot and characters yet a cheesy endings or predictable plot even).
But some were way worse than that. Not just unrealistic storyline or characters. They were more like weird wishful thinking😂. The one ESRA mentioned, plots and characters are soooo illogic. Nevertheless, people read a lot of books like those.
Also, I do feel that some readers kinda have fixed reactions to each trigger or lack thereof. such as grovel means redeemable, ONS is forgivable, singing cheesy lines of love means true love(including those who insisted Phil needs to “communicate” more) or the more excessive affectionate words the better etc etc. If books don’t have these, then they think they are somehow inadequate😮💨😮💨 Rigid and inconsiderate to book contexts😮💨
I have switched to PC logging for a while! so far so good👌🏻wish the lost post would be restored soon❤️
Yes. Grovel was a common theme by my critics. If Phil had cried and begged, maybe on his knees, he may have been forgiven by readers. And I will say it again — that wouldn’t be Phil. Never. It would never occur to him to do that. He apologized a dozen times. He showed resource. He blamed himself for everything. I think his coldness was off putting to many readers, but Phil’s coldness toward Lina was because he was closing himself to pain. He couldn’t handle her rejection. He just closed down.
Hi Girls!
Sarah Manning’s characters have flaws. They feel like real people – 100 percent agree on that point. I love English authors — I grew up loving them.
Personally, I don’t like reading or writing characters that say things I can’t imagine a person saying. Having said that, I know many readers just want an escape. They don’t want realistic – they get that in real life. They want a fairytale. Look at Harlequin Christmas movies — I can’t take them but they are incredibly popular.
It’s curious to me that readers who want unrealistic read cheating novels — if Phil groveled more than he did, he wouldn’t be Phil and the story wouldn’t be a WPF. He was who he was.
And as far as the first drafts of WPF, the editor said everyone knows the details of an affair and because the book was written from Lina’s point of view, we (the reader) only knew what Lina knew. We had to judge Phil from Lina’s perspective only.
And no, I’m not alerted when there is a discussion about my books on Goodreads. I’m only alerted when someone asks me a direct question.
I’m sick that we have lost so many comments. I hope I can get them back 🙁
I had to write the message from my PC. It wouldn’t post from my iphone.
Agree!♥️
I don’t want to be controversial but I have to say that men with that kind of power and resourcefulness are never too approachable or too considerate. And falling in love with them is an arduous arduous work. Their edges could hurt you without the intention to hurt you.
My grandmother once told me humanely that greatness sometimes comes
with enduring agony.That’s why some vintage Books (Harlequin, Mills&Boons) and Vaughn made sense. Well, sensible without the “cheesy” ending, Unsticky’s author commented that Mills&Boons endings usually stood out abruptly(excessively affectionate lines, ewww) and that is tacky!
Anyway, I like Gracieee being very “sober” that she was aware this powerful man was moulding her. Nevertheless, she went along (the place where romance happened and her jaded character befell) . That’s why I don’t like people comparing Gracie&Vaughn to pretty woman. Completely undermining Gracie’s character depth and Vaughn’s masterfulness😮💨. Also Sara Manning passively agreed it was in the same trope with Jane/Rochester!! Haha I knew it!!🎈
Totally with you on that one!!! ❤️
Characters do have independence from their creator and their choices has to be fitting to their role because humans don’t pull 180 degree that fast.
And I love analyzing them in my own way. That’s why I came up with Kim having that ill intention regarding Pics.
You wouldn’t believe me but I hate billionaires love stories because they all have these ‘unrealistic formula’I just have to pick one to know what all of these other have in them. That’s why I was really surprised and loved Unsticky, although I was dreading it be like that other billionaire book where a wealthy man turn into unrealistic character and start singing those cheesy lines but thank God Vaughn had that rude originality(which I think all billionaire should have) that made the book so interesting for me. And there banter and arguments were my favorite. I love it sooooo much because they were not that OTT type that makes you roll your eyes.
I got that!!
I was struggling to pinpoint authors like Jewel E Ann without offending them!
It was really difficult to elaborate my feelings after finishing her books! Her books sometimes made me feel shallow and superficial lovey dovey/love-peace/positive thinking. and when I say I don’t feel her love and compassion for her characters, I meant to say that her characters were like being cut out from cardboard lifelessly for her to stage in her confusing plots. Like Laura said and I also believe the same that characters have certain degree of independence from authors, full of life and depth. Sadly, it’s not like that in Jewel E Ann’s books😮💨
GOD! Making Phil jealous seems to be my favorite hobby nowadays!!!
He is so darn cute then…😉
Actually the unrealistic formula that authors use make me roll my eyes. Remember that Jewel E Ann book… In the cheating scene he asked the friend ‘tell me what do you want Lila’ and shouted his wife name in the end… LOL 😂 to show how much he loved her… So romantic!! (insert sarcasm) imagine Phil shouting Lina name… 🤣🤣🤣
I want that too!!!I want Nick doing something dramatic in front of Phil and Phil would……wow…🔥
Actually there’s an almost reversal moment in WPF. Very interesting! I believe it was in Chapter 47 when they watched the lacrosse game, Phil was caught off guard that Lina gave him a chaste kiss. Laura said if Phil knew Nick was watching from afar (he was there for Brian), Phil would “tongue down” Lina for sure!!😂
I like both scenarios!!❤️
I just hoped Laura have that book somewhere saved.
ESRA!
Thank you for the Gracieee comment!! I am feeling “adorable” because of that😊. and just like you said before! Men are PIGs. Phil was simply fooling around with Kim and using Kim as a painkiller for a while (this happened in real life all the time, men can keep a hook-up at side for years without any emotional attachment). I found that a lot of readers simply hold unrealistic and confusing ideas of men…sigh. But the beauty is Lina as a woman, at first, couldn’t fully understood it as well(it’s more understandable because she is the wife and that is her husband). It made situation full of angst, pain and hurt!!and made the book more captivating❤️
Tracie, I agree!!🤓
Damn! Now I want to read that book soooo bad…. But wait with Nick (Nooooo) Thank God she didn’t listen to her editor but I do wanted a scene where Nick would grab Lina and kiss her in front of Phil catching her off guard because Lina would never do it own her own…. She is too loving and too caring for these tricks.
But I love jealous Phil.. So I can’t help myself.
Okay one more thing please don’t misunderstand my curiosity because Phil hater or not one thing they couldn’t find fault with was Laura ability to make her readers feels all those emotions.
And I personally think everyone should have access to the magic of her writing and that’s one of the reasons we are talking about a book that was written in 2019.
ESRA,
So originally, Laura wrote a book named “The Affair”(if I remembered correctly). It had a lot of affair details because the main theme was Phil&Lina dealing with affair and surviving it. But the editor suggested to edit out some details and make a “love triangle”(Lina&Phil&Nick, which was actually not really, not a functioning triangle any way. Laura had a reply talked about adding more Nick scenes and subplots). Laura said the editor even wanted Lina to be with Nick in the end(screaming! can you imagine??!😮). Also, Katie and Matt are also a subplot added because of the editorial changes.
So once WPF was published, Laura realized that there’re a lot of things was unanswered because of the changes made under editorial advice. So SN as a sequel was dealing with some part of affair details, giving Lina closure and talk about how family coping with aftermath. I read some comments on goodreads complaining that Laura wrote “unconvincing” affair details and photo explanation to pacify readers. That was untrue!! Those were written long ago in the unpublished book “The Affair”. Some details changed such as they attended wedding not in Portland but the inn in VA which is a suburban of DC region~
The original book, I believe, had more than 100000 words😂
Aye aye captain Berenice I would never make that mistake again😂😂 (how can I be so reckless in my wording) ‘Gasp’
Seriously I also wanted it to be a one month affair but that just me wanting Phil to spend less time with Kim. I can understand if that were the case the hurt and anger wouldn’t seem to be the reason. There had to be a certain kind cheating to make the situation understandable. I just love that I don’t have to wonder like those readers. They really need this blog in their lives. 😍
I meant can… I hate typos!!!!
TRACIE! You are 💯 right and we know that but there had been some readers group on goodreads talking about it. They liked Laura writing and didn’t seem to be very mean but genuinely confused 😕.
Laura once said there are rules regarding writing romance. Romance genre now has a lot of unrealistic rules (remember the”hygiene” theory I came up with😂). I think the confusing readers are in a fog unrealistic romance tropes and expected that the signal of Kim being insignificant could only be rendered as Phil only having ONS with her. But that was simply not what would happen in reality. and by expecting that kind of crude plot mechanism, readers missed a lot of details that Laura crafted beautifully to deliver a deep story with multidimensional characters🤔
Berenice, I hope too! ❤️ You had such Grace like moments in those comments , I wanted to point them out to you but I didn’t because I didn’t want you to be mad at me and saying… ‘How dare you ESRA’
But I do think if some deleted scenes were part of the book, readers would have a better understanding… Like the break-up scene… Cam someone tell me why those were deleted? They were very crucial I think 🤔
Then, I got it! I would never think that because Lina took care of Katie and struggled with the crisis, Phil didn’t get the attention and found Lina not taking cafe of herself, making herself less attractive than Kim! This was a huge misunderstanding on their part for sure!! I thought they were talking that Katie crisis being a factor in his cheating. Also talking about man temporarily blame/hate their children for their own problems, yes, it happened for some men/heroes but never Phil! Phil love his children and he is a family man!! I was researching Catherine Dickens recently, so I read a lot of victorian marriage, civil legality and women rights papers, monographs and even Hi-Fi. Gosh, you cannot believe those sad wicked men blaming/hating their wives and innocent children for their own incompetence!!! I was in agony while reading all those!
Phil was such a contrast!!phew😌
Also, do you remember we talked about his “insecure”/wounded ego?? I had that whole mimicking inner thoughts of him being rejected and doubting😂.Yeah, me too!!I definitely think that he did that(Kim) to secretly and childishly prove he was wanted (while his Lina rejected him), lol adorable!
and Plzzzz, no Eros and Kim in one sentence, Kim didn’t deserve it😉😉 (I am joking😂)
Seriously ! I thank God that when zaincruise gave me the books she had already told me about the blog. And you are right I think that’s why I asked Laura about the notification. Because reader can’t understand that if he love Lina like the way he did why would he continue it for four months.? A girl seemed to like the books but she was really confused when she wrote ‘I love this writer and I have read both books but I still don’t know why he cheated because they never talked about it and she never made him explain anything’ I think some reader wanted to know the affair from the Phil POV to understand how he was feeling at that time.
Thank God we have this blog and never had this problem and I didn’t read WPS without SN. Both books have a big gap between them and something tells me that SN wasn’t pre-planned. (I hope I am wrong)
Phil loved Katie he just couldn’t help her…which made him feel like he was failing her as a father….
Gosh!!! I kept hitting the reply button even when I know it wasn’t working… Actually I get it but from there perspective it seems that Phil hated his own daughter… I know her situation was the reason which ultimately created problems (fights and arguments) but there had to be a Nick for Phil to cheat. I think he didn’t like they way Lina was letting Nick decide what’s best for Katie since he was her father and he wanted to decide it himself. But I never thought he was hating that Lina was taking care of Katie and was not taking care of him.
As you said he was a man-child when it came to Lina. And I strongly believe that he (subconsciously) wanted to prove to Lina tha if you don’t want me someone does. 😂 You know Lina not wanting to get physical was a big blow to his ego and Kim was there to made him feel like Eros!!
As for ultimate betrayal(My first cheating book) I thought I loved it when I first read it but he was having a good make out session with other woman and no one at his office knew about his wife and kids….it was very hurtful for the wife. I don’t know but I think the writer wanted us to forgive him since he didn’t have sex with OW he must be in love with his wife but keeping her a secret from everyone made me think maybe he was ashamed of her or something.
I can see the resemblance but I would never compared them because his cheating happened because she was taking care of kids who were also his kids.
In Hunter Universe that was never the case. He never thought Lina had became unattractive or stopped taking care of herself stuff like that. To him the only beautiful woman was Lina. Sure he was attracted to Kim on physical level but it wasn’t that maddening attraction or anything like that.
Also, correct me if I am wrong(I mean it!😌). I feel that as long as they don’t say things such as Phil loved/liked Kim; Phil cheated because Kim was exciting and marriage/Lina was dull; Phil was weak etc etc; then among all those factors that lead him to slip, readers could form their percentage of accountability, based on what they see and value from those causal factors. For example, we all know the last straw was there’s a man(Nick) “taking over Phil’s control over his family”. I know it’s a very crucial factor in his cheating, maybe the most crucial because it pained him the most, making him completely lost and hurt. But I have been a reader trying to balancing the important roles of household’s “institutional difficulty”(Katie problem) and Phil’s own character (he was a good man and Hero but he doesn’t have the same formula as Nick when confronting crisis as such) in his cheating.
But if they couldn’t see the whole picture and just concluded that the only thing they can see after reading was Phil couldn’t handle crisis so he cheated, then I think their interpretation was biased and completely wrong for sure😌
WPF and SN are soooo intriguing and captivating♥️. Readers need to come to the blog for help!! Gosh, if we didn’t find the blog, what we gonna do😮💨
I am very sad as well! We have so many memorable and meaningful back and forth🥺, ESRA♥️
Hope that next week, when host finishes maintenance, all lost posts could be back🎈
Is it not?
It’s partially??
Lina stopped putting Phil first (which she did for years and simply “spoiled” him a little bit) is one of the factor broke their connection. ESRA you even wrote about this during our conversation.
In Early blog discussion, someone compared this with an old book The Ultimate Betrayal. The husband was driven away and one of the reason was wife lost connection with him because of the children problem.
Katie initially created a difficult condition and Nick made Lina turn away from him completely and Kim as an accessible painkiller, then a perfect storm?
Laura, do you get notified on Goodreads when they create a thread related to your books and discuss it?
Ok, I was aimlessly wandering on the Goodreads where I wanted to look for an old thread ‘DON’T SHOOT ME FOR LOOKING’ because that thread had some very good historical and contemporary angsty cheating recommendations and came across a cheating romance group where they were discussing the WPS and SN and talking about Phil….although they all agreed that Laura writing was extremely beautiful (no doubts about it)but they had this misperception that Phil cheated because Lina was putting their daughter first and I was like what!!!?????????
Yeah, the blog is easy to access from my laptop but I had bookmarked the blog page so it had no problem accessing it from the smartphone. But I am a little sad that some of the comments had vanished. but I am also happy that now I got to talk about hunters again in a new way!!!!!!!!! sorry guys but I just love them too much.
Thank God! Everything has start working again ❤️!!
If you have issue getting to the blog type http://www.laurabranchflower.com/blog
That will take you directly to the blog.
This is a smartphone issue only. Should work okay on a computer
Reply option isn’t working. You can only post new comments. Probably won’t be fixed until early next week 😞
Also several hundreds comments just disappeared.
Your hero’s plus suit….Amazing!
I cannot use the reply button either🥺
!!That is a big change!! and a bonus theme: age gap!!😮I like it!
Also, 26 yr old artist meets a 3 year old. The bonding will be so adorable!!
Wait,
The H is a surgeon? doctor? Suit is sexy for sure! But the scrubs under lab coat would be hot too!😳
LOL yes, he wears scrubs but he will wear a suit a couple of times for Tracie.
Does your new hero wear a suit?
I will put him in one for you, Tracie 🙂
Laura,
Thank you for the clarification❤️. I am a little bit childish and confused about themes such as losing someone and moving on🥺. I need to constantly remind myself that every love is different😌. You always contextualise serious and complicated themes seamlessly and write them beautifully. So I will just patiently wait for the new release😳. Also, I know that the h has a teenage son who is edgy. I am very interested about him😌 and his bond with H’s son(I remembered H has a small boy who survived the tragedy?)
Berenice,
Originally the h had a teenage son, but I changed my mind. The h is a 26 yr old artist — The H is 41 with a 3 year old. Things could still change, but that’s what’s happening…
Berenice — my new book isn’t sad — except for the obvious fact that the hero is a widow, but it begins two years after the H loses his wife. It’s about moving on and finding a new love 🙂
If any of you are having issues posting, please email me and let me know — [email protected]
I’m sorry the site isn’t working properly. I can’t believe how long it is taking for the Host to fix the issues.
Can post short not long though…
Okay I’m going to see if this goes and hoping it does….
success 🙂