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White Picket Fence Discussion

New Scenes will be Posted on the Flash back — Lina and Phil (the younger years). I’m just starting this new thread so we don’t have to sift through so many comments

679 Comments on “White Picket Fence Discussion

  1. Good morning. I’m starting a new post — this one is too long 🙂
    Tracie — I’ll write a new scene this week!

  2. And Yes Laura mentioned once in previous discussion that it is better to act than to speak of emotions…and Phill is 100% awesome at acting up and fixing his mistake ,their was even link between his actions and thoughts most of the times..but sometimes he couldn’t show everything he felt deep inside.
    I don’t understand what an alpha man is but I do know that every man feels weak and vulnerable at certain point of time.. maybe this was just lowest point in his life but not the weakest point..I think his emotions would come as floods on a gloomy day after 30years when Lina would leave this world and he would be ripe and old?
    Don’t get angry on me cause everyone ages and dies..??ok I understand these are wonderful characters of this beautifully written book..but I’m soo desperate to see Phill broken and beautiful ? putting all his emotions out without any logic in his head…I think I’m being irrational .. sorry ….????????

    • I hope and pray that these characters should live long and happy..it is only reasonable after everything they have faced…

  3. Laura in the scene where Lina is in the tub and Phil comes in after Logan says he wishes he wasn’t his father….Lina said I know you are hurt…What were Phil’s thoughts? Was he working needing if he had completely lost Logan’s respect or was it just a moment like he had with Megan at Thanksgiving and he was wondering how much longer his family would hurt over his actions

    • Tracie do you remember at one point he said to Lina that Katie’s words made him resistant to what Logan said to him…he said something like Katie made him stronger to such words from his children
      But I too don’t know what he really felt inside ..see that’s why I say he is a bit less emotional and more on moving and being practical

  4. Laura I’m feeling all Swooney over my Phil…I need some feels from my Phil, any new scenes on the horizon?

    • Hi Tracie,
      While you waiting for a new scene, may I suggest the scene in SN where Phil tells Lina how much he missed her while she was out dancing in New York – that bathroom/shower scene is something else, om my! ????

  5. I’m pulling this conversation up top.

    Hinata, everyone knows I wasn’t a Phil fan in WPF, but I don’t think anyone can say he’s unemotional. I think he feels too much, but doesn’t know how to deal with them. He’s an alpha personality, he’s never going to wear his emotions on his sleeve. At times he may be insensitive, but that doesn’t mean he’s unemotional.

    • Good Morning Girls, first Phil has emotions, whether its anger, love, lust, and yes even remorse, he has them. Phil is human, not a machine. His sex drive probably did take a nose dive, because the only one he wanted was Lina and she didn’t want him at the time, because of the hurt and betrayal he bestowed upon her. That six months Phil was in his head and heart, not his pants. Did he want sex??? You know it…was it still a priority, absolutely not! His priority was Lina, his family and Liam.

      • Yes, i also mentioned his sex drive probably took a nose dive during the separation.

        Just teasing about him being grumpy :p his body went from one extreme to the next. Suppose he did exercise a lot once he recovered from his op.

      • So, I’ve been thinking about this. I think Phil has no problem showing his emotions, sometimes readers lose sight of the fact that we never get his thoughts in WPF. It maybe written in the 3rd person, but it’s from Lina’s POV, we’re not privy to his thoughts, we only know what he may be thinking based on dialogue and behavior. But you know when he’s mad, or apologetic, or hurt. We simply don’t know the thought process.

        • I think the thought process was a decent man that got caught up in his own selfishness and betrayed his wife. Then that decent man realized his behavior devastated the only woman he ever loved and was on the fast track to make it up to her, because she was the only woman he could ever love.

          • I agree that’s probably his trout process.

            We can deduce what his thought process was, we’re just not privy to it. And, before Lina’s birthday card surprise from Kim, he appears to be pushing her to forgive and move on, giving the appearance of not wanting her to emotionally deal with the situation. What was running through his head may not have matched what was coming out of his mouth.

            My comments are more about him not being unemotional.

          • Tara I would think desperation was in his head. The comments about him coming out of the fog and he must of been insane to be with Kim. Missing her ulterior motives for sleeping with him was a blow to Phil’s ego too! Most of all the guilt of his actions almost taking everything and everyone he loved away from him was almost to much, even for Phil.

        • Ya you are right Tara it is but difficult to decipher his thoughts in WPF because he doesn’t have his POV

      • Ya sure Tracie his prioritise were Lina,Liam and their family…but don’t you think he would miss Lina being around him and he would think something about how Lina felt around him and jerk off to her..
        I know it is not his priority obviously..but as you said he is a human and he must have jerked off once or twice not often..and I know he is a decent man to be celibate

    • I didn’t say he was unemotional I said he was more practical.Emotions were after responsibility in his list.
      And down below where Tracie mentioned about Logan offering a hug to Lina and Phill’s reaction to it Laura said that -Phill was glad that Logan was offering comfort to Lina..maybe later he would have been proud of Logan.She also said that he himself would have offered comfort to Lina in that situation-it is sweet of Phill to understand Lina’s situation and offer comfort to her physically but again he was being practical here in that situation..he was not emotional thinking he was the reason why they had to face that situation then… that’s why I said he doesn’t have any emotions…

      Yes I too saw his emotions of anger,fear and sadness..he accepted that he bought Kim to their life he even worked on making everything better,to fix their lives ,to take care of Liam like a good father he was just a practical man..less emotional

      • I don’t think it was being practical. He saw Lina upset and his instinct was to comfort her — at that moment he wouldn’t be touched by what Logan was doing because his focus would be entirely on Lina.

  6. I sometimes doubt if Phill’s a sex addict?
    Laura why didn’t you include some marriage counseling or therapy..?
    It is really hard to decipher Phill’s train of thoughts ,emotions and feelings..it is always our assumptions of him?

    • OMGAD. I just cried from laughing so hard. No words.
      Ok Hinata How do you explain 6 months of celibacy? Also I want to ask- have you read any cheating books where you forgave the husband?

      • I don’t actually know what to say about Phill during those 6 months…he must have felt bad of what he did..he also should have thought about what he should do after Liam came into this world..how he should take care of him..I think Phill being a practical man..he didn’t show lots of emotions or didn’t completely breakdown,just lost weight,was feeling sad and did his thing

        Yes I remember forgiving very few heros them being goalie hero, man of my dreams-faith andrews and all your perfects-colleen Hoover ?

        • I think he always put his responsibilities first..emotions, conversation and feelings were later in his priority or he just didn’t like to show his weakness as ya’ll say him being alpha and all..I honestly believe every man has that vulnerability besides them being Alpha,beta or gamma..their is nothing wrong if you are vulnerable to those who you truly love and trust..their was no need for Phill to think in his head and deal with his personal problems differently..he should have trusted more on Lina and talked to her about his fears or problems wouldn’t that have cleared Lina’s fog to (regarding Nick)?

      • Ya he was celibate for 6 months
        After everything he did hit him hard I guess that would be a much needed thing and also to be careful,because one mis-calculation(sex wihout protection)changed his life’s graph as said by him in SN
        And he had lots of sex in those 3 months of affair and 1 month only with Kim

        Ok Janet I take that back Phill is not a sex addict??

    • He went from hot daily sex with Kim and odd occasion with his wife and then nothing for 6 months (except Christmas eve). I wonder how he survived those 6 months?! No wonder he was so grumpy.

      • He must have given himself a hand job…it’s impossible for him to go without it I guess because even after they got back they were going at it almost everyday
        Whatever maybe the reason i don’t care even Lina mentioned in WPF that he had a high sex drive

        • I like to think he went into a mini depression stage and his sex drive took a nose dive. He couldn’t even miss or think of sex knowing that what he used to escape his problems and quite possibly destroyed his life and hurt the love of his life.

          He drive only came back to life on Christmas eve.

  7. Hi ladies and Laura welcome back, hope you had a great vacation!
    I have a question and sorry if this has been addressed in another thread. When did Phil tell his parents about the affair? Was it right after telling Lina or when she kicked him out? Would he have told them about Liam right after telling them about the affair? In a scene in SN, phil’s Mom says that Jeanie told her about pictures that Kim had sent Lina, which led Mrs. Hunter to pray for Kim. It sounded in that moment that Phil’s mom would not have known the exact reason why Phil had been kicked out until Jeanie told her. Also, I thought that Phil’s mom had reached out to Lina and was in constant contact with her.

    • Hi Holley!
      Phil told his parents about the affair as soon as Lina kicked him out. Remember at Christmas when his mom tried to talk to Lina?
      I think the reason she was praying for Kim is because she decided she wasn’t stable when she found out about the pictures. I don’t think Phil gave her any details — just the fact that he had an affair, got the woman pregnant and that Lina couldn’t forgive him.

  8. Girls here is a think tank question! Perfect Storm II…Kim has talked with Megan; Phil has confronted Kim; Liam upset and crying; Megan lets Phil know how hurt she is by his affair; Now Phil walks up from the basement after working off the stress from the day; he starts to enter into the kitchen and here’s Logan say “Katie told me what happened “that woman, Liam’s mom was at Yoga.” You need a hug? Phil watches undetected as Lina turns into Logan’s arms for comfort and listens as she says I could never turn down a hug from you.” What are Phil’s feelings and reaction to that scene and the days events?

    • I think Phil was on an emotional roller coaster. Isn’t that Thanksgiving weekend? He’d been reliving the sadness from the previous year. He’s super pissed at Kim, he’s upset about upsetting Liam. He’s got Megan melting down, finally understanding how heartbroken Lina had been after finding out about the affair. And, then there’s Logan offering comfort to Lina, I’d hope he’d feel pride in that.

      Didn’t he go downstairs to run off the stress on the treadmill… At that point, if Phil were a woman, I’d say he needed wine, chocolate and a nap.

      • LOL Tara…I always wondered what if he had seen the scene between Logan and Lina. I think after the emotional day from hell and Logan comforting his mom about that woman..would of been an absolute crippling moment for Phil. I could honestly see him turning around and going right back to the basement and having an episode like he had at the church.

        • Tracie… honestly, it could have been a crippling moment. The weekend is an emotional mess for the whole family, reminding him ultimately he brought Kim into their lives, he can’t control what Kim does and for someone who needs to be in control, it had to be incredibly stressful and emotional.

      • LOL — I think Phil would be more focused in to the fact that Lina needed comforting, not that Logan was giving it. Maybe later when he was calmer, he’d be proud of Logan. At that moment, he’d probably want to comfort Lina himself.

    • I agree with Tracie. The moment with Megan had a huge impact on Phil so he was already feeling down and pained. I think if he witnessed Logan comfort Lina, Phil would feel pride in Logan but also feel a bit sad. Logan would kick ass for his mom, that would have crossed Phil’s mind. Phil would be sad and angry at himself because even though his affair had long ended, every member of his family continued to suffer because of his actions. I wonder though if Phil would be a bit jealous of the special bond between Lina and Logan in that moment. Logan is so protective of his mom.

      • Hi Holley Phil wouldn’t be jealous of Logan, but I do think Phil would of berated himself in that moment for Logan to have to be the comforter for his mother. If he hadn’t had the affair, there would be no need for Lina or his children to be comforted. He suffered consequences and paid dearly…

        • Hi and thanks Tracie, I felt for Phil that day. I can’t imagine what it was like to feel so much pain from a self inflicted wound.

    • Hi Tracie! I wondered after the Megan/ Kim scene if Phil confronted Kim about it. That scene was perfection but I did wonder if Phil said anything at work the next day. It’s another poor Phil moment here-not much he can do other than beat himself up mentally. I know many readers don’t like Megan but I have a soft spot for her and we saw how wrecked she was when she came face to face with the person who almost destroyed her family.

      • Janet, don’t you think that what probably devastated most was the realization that her father was truly in the wrong, prior to the scene with Kim she felt Lina was wrong for not forgiving and forgetting. Kim and her father’s affair became an ugly reality.

        I’m not a fan of Megan, though I felt for her in that scene, she seems to lack basic empathy and seems very entitled.

        • Yep Tara. Phil definitely fell off the pedestal there but probably not for too long. And you just described my son to a T-we are working on him. ?

          • Janet, how old is your son?

            My son went to a co-ed Catholic high school, it is one of the few private school in our area, and educationally, it’s a fantastic school. It is filled with Megans (boys and girls)—very, very entitled, kids who basically have everything handed to them. It’s a tough thing to combat.

          • he is 14 going into 10th. I think most teenagers are more like Megan than Logan no? He’s a good kid but he lives in a LA bubble.

          • You’re right most are self-absorbed. At that age, it goes through cycles, he’s probably due for one of life’s reality checks—it’ll help teach some empathy.

    • Phil must have really hated himself to witness that. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had to hold back a tear. It was always him who would comfort Lina to protect her and now he’s in the background watching the scene knowing he was the cause of everyone pain and suffering.

  9. Would Kim of asked Phil during that 4 months if he was sleeping with Lina too? Phil would of told her that his wife was none of her business…but I wonder if she would of been brazen enough to kind of stake a claim.

    • Omg imagine if she did! I say no way. That would have jerked Phil’s head up from whatever he was doing to her at the time and killed the mood. Lol. If anything I can see Kim saying something like “is she sleeping” on the mornings he came over early.

      • I guarantee Phil didn’t bring Lina up or allow her to be discussed with Kim. He probably on mentioned her when he set the rules up front about never leaving her.

      • I agree, there’s no way she’d ask that, that would be showing her hand that she cares if he sleeps with his wife (this is supposed to be just sex for Kim)..she couldn’t afford to show possessiveness

    • Phil was having sex with her almost every day – Monday to Saturday (sometimes twice a day). Knowing he was asking her for sex almost daily, i highly doubt she was worried he was having sex with Lina. Maybe the last two weeks after SB if the sex was cooling down…

      Plus Kim wouldn’t want Phil thinking of his wife at all. She definitely wouldn’t bring up her name.

  10. Ok one more question for today and that’s it I promise lol!

    So after that night that Phil slept with Kim for the first time, I know he hadn’t planned or expected to do that…the next day(s) what was his thought process like? Was he feeling guilty? Afraid that Lina might guess or find out? Did he tell himself that it was a momentary lapse and that it would never happen again?

    • So this is off topic and not really a question, but do you ladies remember that day after Christmas when everyone knew that Lina and Phil had slept together because of how content and proud Phil was behaving?? And then Lina told him to cut it out? Omg that made me laugh so hard..that was really funny lol I’m laughing thinking about it now…Phil was so bewildered haha

    • I have no doubt that he felt guilty. Then he went home and the tension as a result of Katie probably greeted him at the door. I have no idea what his thought process was like. Men are different. They don’t think like women. I talked to many men when I was writing Phil scenes and they are just so different than us. They don’t think as much as we do. And sex is different to men than women. That’s why I didn’t want to write Phil’s thoughts. I know how men act. I know how they talk, but what they think? That’s pure fiction. I read once than men think about sex over 500 times a day.

      • Maybe the morning after while he was in the shower he had time to reflect the previous night and feel guilty. Then it was forgotten when he was in work mode for the day.

        Then tention at home didn’t give him time to think about the previous night.

        Think the affair was a slow build up? Nothing happened locally until they travelled again. It was easy to forget life at home and do the dirty act again in NY. Then after the second act, then it became easy to not think about what he was doing and then the affair picked up.

        Remember Phil realised it was easy to get Kim into bed and she claimed she only wanted sex and wouldn’t say anything.

  11. I think for me one of the moments that showed you how hard Phil was trying to give Lina space and needing her as much as he needed air, was in the Christmas Scene that Laura did for us in Phil’s POV. Where Lina touched his hand to tell him thank you for carrying the gifts up from the basement and he leaned in to kiss her cheek. Phil breathed in her familiar smell and it took everything in him not to pull her into his arms… Even just meeting Liam for the first time that morning, his thoughts that night were of Lina and how much he needed her. That’s not a selfish man, that’s a remorseful one.

      • Here is the scene, Miri…

        t was almost 2:00 a.m. before the kids were in their bedrooms and Lina and Phil were able to bring the gifts up from the basement, where they were stowed away.
        “You outdid yourself,” Phil said as he admired the large assortment of wrapped packages beneath the Christmas tree. “It will take them half the day to open those.”
        “It’s no more than normal. And some are for you.”
        “I’m teasing you. It’s late. I’m going to set the alarm and head downstairs.”
        “Okay.” She touched his hand. “Thanks.”
        “Good night.” He leaned in and brushed his lips over her cheek, breathing in her familiar scent. It took everything in him not to pull her into his arms. “Sleep well.” He watched her until she disappeared up the stairs.
        He poured himself another glass of Scotch before lowering himself onto the couch in the living room, staring at the Christmas tree. It was the first time in twenty-five years they hadn’t decorated a tree together. His eyes focused on the angel on top of the tree. They’d been in Paris on their honeymoon when Lina found it at a little shop on avenue of Montaigne. It had been ridiculously expensive so she’d decided not to buy it. He remembered the excitement in her eyes when he presented it to her that Christmas. It had always been his job to place it on top of the tree. He wondered if Logan had done it this year. He swallowed down the lump in his throat. He wasn’t going to feel sorry for himself. He’d put himself here. He finished the drink in two swallows before heading down to the basement.

        * * *

        Phil was lying on his back in the guestroom with his hands clasped together behind his head, staring up at the ceiling and wondering if he’d ever fall asleep when the door opened. He sat up in the bed. Words died in his throat when he saw Lina.
        She crossed to the bed and slipped off her nightgown. His gaze moved over her naked body before she crawled under the comforter beside him. She ran her hand over his chest and began to kiss his jaw.
        He closed his eyes. If he was dreaming, he didn’t want to wake up. He turned to face her, stroking his hand down her back. “Oh, Baby.” He felt her entire body stiffen.
        “What are you doing here?” She scrambled back from him.
        “You came to me.”
        “What?” She sat up, clutching the sheet against her chest as she looked around. “Oh my God. I can’t believe this.”
        He slid his hand up her arm. “Look at me.”
        “Lina.” He clasped her shoulder, pushing her back down on the bed. “Look at me.”
        “Don’t,” she whispered, shaking her head.
        “Shh.” He brushed his lips over hers. “Don’t think. Just feel.” He took the kiss deeper, his warm tongue stroking hers.
        Her hands moved over his shoulders and around his neck. He moaned deeply when she opened her thighs to him. He drove into her, claiming her. She was still his. She would always be his.
        “Do you know why you came to me?” he asked as he thrust his body into hers. “Because you’re mine, Lina,” he said, driving into her again. “You were made for me. You know that’s true, don’t you?” He paused, his body deep in hers, the muscles of his arms and shoulders straining as he held himself over her. “Tell me.”
        “No,” she whispered.
        Regardless of her words he could see the truth in her eyes. She belonged to him. “Why are you fighting this?”
        “Stop talking.”
        “I know I hurt you, but I promise, if you’ll let me, I’ll spend the rest of my life making it up to you. I love you.” He lowered his mouth over hers as his body again began to move.

        They were almost asleep, her body draped over his, when Nick Drayton came into his mind. “Were you with him?”
        He released a breath.

        • Thanks Laura
          Yeah he probably didn’t dwell on it or analyze what happened…but I’m sure he felt some guilt and I’m going to assume that he wasn’t planning in doing it again…it’s just that when the next opportunity arose, well…doing something the second time around is usually easier once you’ve already done it once..I imagine he didn’t think about it or Kim very much when he was home…as is always said, men “compartmentalize”

  12. Hi Ladies, happy Sunday ? just catching up in all the messages…

    Laura, how long did Phil think that Lina and Nick were together? From the day he moved out until when? And what made him realize that they’re not really together?

    Thanks!! ?

      • Oh yes, ok…he also asked her if she slept with him the day she came back from Nick’s house and she said no, but I guess he didn’t believe her? Did he move out in the summertime? I think it was while Logan was out of school?

          • It would of been October 15th when he moves out. I remember in the flashback scene that Phil’s Jersey number was 14 and Lina commented it was the same number as her birthday. I can’t believe I remembered that…Lol. I need a post-it to remember anything else!

          • Tracie you’re so funny…yes we tend to always remember the important things in life …(like Phil’s jersey number and Lina’s birthday ???)

    • Happy Sunday! If you guys want to take a break from angsty cheating books, I HIGHLY recommend Kate Stewart’s The Guy on the Right. OMG my belly hurts today from laughing so much. It was so so good.

  13. Laura what did Phill do when he was in farside..away from Lina and children..did he let the guilt take him then?and you said he was going to church everyday he did pray for Lina to take him back..but did he accept his sin and did confession?

    • Remember in the beginning he thought Lina picked Nick. He thought they were together. He had a lot of anger inside of him. I wonder what was going through his mind then. Remember he was very cold towards Lina, didn’t even want to talk to her unless it was regarding the kids. Basically treating her almost the same way as he treated kim, except he was outright rude towards her since he still respects Lina.

      I think he would have worked at the office quite late, not wanting to go home to an empty house. I was going to say, he threw himself into exercising to burn off the anger inside of him but i forgot he had a messed up hand.

      It was only after Thanksgiving that he started being nicer towards Lina. Not so cold. I think he went to her house to clear the snow because he missed Lina at Thanksgiving and wanted to see her even though he was being cold towards her. He just wanted to see her face.

      Also makes me wonder what he prayed for when he thought he had lost Lina to Nick at the time.

      • He thought she was with Nick, but I don’t think he believed he had lost her. He couldn’t handle being around her knowing/thinking she was with Nick. He wasn’t mad at Lina. He was mad at himself. But at the same time, he still believed Lina was his. He was dealing with the destruction he brought to the family. He couldn’t stand to be around her because he wanted to be with her. It was either the cold exterior or tears — he wasn’t going to let himself fall apart.

      • Ya BeeSA he was cold towards her in the beginning but still lost lots of weight..and that night calls from Lina..he was lonely and had a great time to reflect on his actions ..but his head is a very unpredictable place..and as you said he must have missed her terribly on Thanksgiving cause there was this ritual where she made his plate..I’m sure he realised he took Lina forganted..
        I think he definitely prayed that his wife take him back

    • He did. I believe there was a scene in SN where he talked to the priest, right? I can’t remember if it made the final book or not. Anyway, yes he would have gone to confession. I’m sure he broke down when he was alone.

      • I think this was only when he thought Kim was taking Liam to NYC, that he spoke to the priest…otherwise I don’t recall a scene like that…??

        • I think the priest understood Phill only because he already confessed before …he said ‘I already put Lina through so much.. ‘or something like that…if priest didn’t know he wouldn’t have carried the conversation (although at that point half of the town new ,Phill told this as in SN)

          • That’s correct. But like I said before, Ellicott City is a suburb of both Baltimore and Washington, DC. It’s not the type of place where you see people you know every time you go to the store. It’s definitely not a small town.

          • Also, when the priest asked if he talked to Lina and he said he couldn’t ask her to raise Liam, I think the priest knew that Lina would without Phil asking…That says a lot about what people thought of Lina.

            Laura when do you think they would of went to church as a family? I knew Lina wanted to wait.

          • I wonder if their first visit to church as a family, if Phil was conscious of how people were perceiving the new family unit?

  14. Lets say Phil and Lina did get a divorce and were separated for a good year or two.

    I think Phil would have tried dating here and there but they wouldn’t have lasted or gotten serious at all. Probably would have gone through periods of taking a lady to dinner once or twice and that’s it. Might be one or two that lasted a few months but nothing serious at all. I doubt he would have been able to just use another woman to sleep with to escape his heartache, knowing the ‘sex escape’ he used the last time was what destroyed his life.

    He’d probably try letting go and moving on in the beginning and realising he wasn’t fully ready to move on from Lina even though they were divorce. He’d probably write off woman completely and focus on building his relationship with his kids again.

    Then Lina sees him working hard to repair the damage he caused on his relationship with his children and she can’t help be drawn to him again. Before you know it, they start getting closer again.

    • BeeSa, I remember one time I asked Laura how soon he would have moved on to another woman, and she said only after Lina did (move on with another man)..like if he saw that she’d seriously moved on or married or engaged to another man…correct, Laura??

  15. Laura once Phil resigned himself to the fact that Lina wasn’t taking him back anytime soon in WPF, how did he imagine himself without Lina in his life? I know after Christmas he had hope in getting Lina back, but did he ever think about his life if Lina went through with the divorce? I think he would of been miserable being a part-time father to all of his children and he would of never connected to anyone other than Lina.

    • I don’t he let his mind go there. Until they were actually divorced he wasn’t going to give up hope. I think every now and then he got mad at the thought of her with Nick, but mostly he just prayed she’s come back to him

      • Some say Phil didn’t suffer enough, I think that is so untrue. I remember him saying in SN he never got use to being alone. For a man that had the world in his hands to have it destroyed by the same hand, he was miserable and yes he deserved it. But he waited and prayed and hoped his betrayal could be forgiven, because even though he escaped for a short time with Kim, he gave his own self a life sentence because he betrayed Lina. Phil said numerous times I will never forgive myself. Lina forgiving him was a humbling experience for Phil that he will not take for granted and be ever thankful for having Lina back in his arms.

      • Yes Laura I remember him desperately wanting Lina back in his life..but he was the first to suggest seperation(I mean the first legal step of being seperate came from his mouth) why couldn’t he just put his real interests?
        Sometimes I feel that Phill really needs to learn to communicate with the people he loves

        • Think it was giving her the independence that she wanted. Him giving her the documents showed that he wouldn’t just leave her high and dry if they separated. He would still look after her. He wanted her to know, no matter what she decides, he would always look after her. He was giving her the choice to make the separation final or not without her having to stress about money etc although he could have communicated it better with her, saying i don’t want a divorce but here are the documents and please know, no matter what you decide, i will always look after you.

          But Phil is alpha Phil, you don’t show your weakness or talk about your emotions.

        • He wanted Lina to feel secure. He wanted her to know she would always be taken care of regardless of what she decided. I think that was important to him. He also thought she was with Nick at that point.

          • It feels like two faced person.. eventhough he gave her full powers to take their relationship into any direction and assured her of his financial stability…it is not fair that Lina is holding the steering of their relation..ok in the end he atleast tried by saying the flawed version of him would be better and all..but still he should have shown that conflict which was happening in his head

          • I don’t know what kind of men you’re around Hinata, but the ones I experience don’t communicate like women. He told her when he was recovering from the arm surgery that he wanted all of her or none. She knew he wanted her back. It wasn’t in his nature to keep saying it. He is who he is. Everyone is different. I didn’t write a man that is an open communicator.

          • Lina knew Phil wanted her back, even at Christmas when they felt their connection the next day. But as Lina told Phil in Chapter 7 of SN, the SB picture kept her from letting her come home.

    • Remember Katie told Lina that he calls her every night which drives her nuts but she doesn’t have the heart to tell him to stop because he sounds so sad on the phone. We know Katie doesn’t mince her words when it comes to Phil but she held back during the phone conversation because she could hear it in his voice he was sad.

      Even Megan notice how sad her dad was and begged her ma to take him back.

      I wonder if the kids caught him on one or two occasions looking at a photo frame of Lina at night when he thought he was alone.

      I can just picture Meg / Katie sneaking to the kitchen at night to grab something from the fridge and not realising Phil sitting alone in the dark with Lina photo in his hand and saying to himself “what have done?”

      • Oh! I thought you start vacation today Laura. I’m out of it. Yes for sure you need to recover from vacay.

        • It’s always like that…I love to go, but I love to come home…Hope you had a. Good time doll and all is good with Jordan.

  16. Didn’t Diane know about Phill’s affair with kim?when lina opinionated about her doubts why did she totally reject the idea?she should have noticed something like growing distance between Wayne and Phill?was this discussion there in WPF that she was sorry she lied to Lina bout Phill’s affair cause I forgot 😛

      • Diane 100% did not believe Phil was having an affair. She wouldn’t even have thought to question Wayne because in her mind, it was completely untrue.

        Wayne wouldn’t have mentioned to Diane knowing how close Diane is with Lina. He wouldn’t want to put his wife in a tough situation where she had to pick between what’s good for her husband working relationship with Phil and one of her closest friend.

        I like the fact that Wayne told Phil ” it’s good to have my wife back”. Knowing Phil affair even affected Wayne and Diane’s relationship ( Diane being upset regarding the separation between Phil and Lina).

    • I had issues with Diane in WPF, as a friend, I think she should have been more like Adele—having Lina’s back rather than telling her to forgive and move forward. Lina needed to work through a grieving process, and Diana was supportive in that.

      I’m not sure how much Wayne would have said at home prior to the details of the affair coming out, I’m sure he wouldn’t have wanted Diane saying anything to Lina. It was going to blow up, but I doubt he’d have wanted her the trigger.

      • I agree with you Tara. Wayne would of confronted Phil when he first suspected. Thus, the tension between them. He probably told Phil to watch his step and put an end to this stupidity before he lost everything he valued and it was probably close to the time the affair did end.

        • In fact I would say that Wayne could fronted Phil before his last trip to NY with Kim. Thus the reason he didn’t want to go to dinner at Wayne’s. Phil was probably pissed all week about their conversation and then Lina brought him back into her world and the rest was history girls.

          • Janet I don’t know if it was that he like her a lot or he just didn’t like being given an ultimate or reprimanded by Wayne regarding his personal life.

          • Okay so if Wayne confronted Phil about the affair right before the braai, then that was after SB. Phil was already struggling to continue the affair since he couldn’t use Kim to escape Lina. Remember he was having a hard time looking at Kim and not thinking of Lina.

            So probably why he was grumpy towards Wayne. He was starting to feel guilty himself and he was still trying to separate Lina and Kim in his mind so he could carry on with his affair and didn’t want to hear Wayne pointing it out to end it.

            Surely it also stressed him that one person already pointed out his that he knows about Kim and the affair. Once one person knows, it will start this ripple effect and soon everyone will know.

            Phil ‘escape’ was starting to unravel which he no longer be able to control.

        • Agree! I don’t think Wayne and Phil had a heart to heart convo like girls tend to have. But a warning from your mentor should have registered in Phil’s head. To completely ignore Wayne’s advice was a bit reckless I think. More and more we discuss this I think Phil liked Kim more than I originally thought during the Affair. I hate to think that but it makes more sense to me. Regarding Phil attending the wedding, since it wasn’t a destination event I think it would have looked weird if Phil didn’t attend.

          • Of course Phil would have to attend the wedding. It was work, not pleasure. I can’t imagine not attending the wedding of one of my employees.

            As far as Diane knowing – no. She one hundred percent believed what she was saying to Lina. Most men don’t gossip like women. I know some do, but not the ones on this story.

            I think Wayne looked the other way regarding Kim – at first. And then he told him to knock it off. That was before the barbecue

          • I wish Wayne gave them a warning since they were using company property to have sex. He probably didnt even know.

          • Maybe Wayne told Phil he’s disappointed to know he’s the type of man to cheat on his wife, which bruised Phil ego and made him angry.

  17. You know Diane was pushing Lina to forgive Phil, do you think she was putting pressure on Phil to make it up to him. Maybe at her Christmas party? I’m sure was there.

    I bet men approached Diane and said “when Lina is ready to move, keep me in mind when you playing match maker”. I bet there were a few single men who were patiently waiting to fill Phil shoes when it came to Lina. Especially at Diane Christmas party. Phil attending without Lina. They must have known they’ve separated.

      • Hi BeeSa, I’m replying to your post at the bottom…

        “That scene also pissed me off. He heard Lina call her a whore but didn’t hear Kim reply to that statement “your husband couldn’t get enough of him”. Selective hearing?
        Then Kim confirms what she said by sending her print screen of the sms’s Phil sent which were daily, some more than once a day and sleepover at her house.
        I would have left him there and then. Especially when Phil barely showed any remorse of those messages. I honestly did not like Phil here and was happy she went to meet Nick.”

        That part made me sooo mad, where Phil Phil heard Lina call Kim a whore but he didn’t hear Kim’s reply? Yeah ok, whatever Phil.
        If I had been in Lina’s shoes, I would’ve let Phil know that under no circumstances are either of us going to that wedding!! I don’t care what people at work would think, I wasn’t going and neither was he! He said he’d spend his whole life making it up to Lina, then prove it, and don’t go to a wedding where either of us would have to see that bitch. I would not be attending and since I wouldn’t trust him at that point if he attended without me , then he wasn’t going either. End of discussion for me.

        • I don’t think Diane said anything to Phil about Lina…for one, she knew how badly he wanted Lina back, and second, she probably didn’t feel as close with Phil as she did with Lina to be able to stick her nose in like she did with Lina…I really didn’t care for Diane..I’d like to see how casual she’s be about her husband having an affair and impregnating another woman…I’m not saying she should have encouraged Lina to leave Phil, but she could’ve just listened without judgement instead of always jumping to Phil’s defense…she and Megan really irritated me…if you haven’t been in Lina’s shoes then really just shut up

          • I remember at one point Diane told Lina she looked terrible…really Diane? That’s what you choose to say to a woman who’s just been cheated on by her husband? You think maybe her confidence hasn’t already taken enough of a hit??

          • Ya Miri I too got irritated with Diane and Meghan..I really loved Adele a lot in that situation when Lina found out about Phill’s affair

        • Miri – had Phil promised her to put her first before that scene at the wedding? I thought he only promised later on when all the drama started.

          I agree, he shouldn’t have made them go to that wedding or suggest he goes only (like she suppose to trust him to be away from her overnight but close to Kim) It was wedding not a work function. Although at the time, Kim wasnt misbehaving. Phil didn’t expect Kim to cause drama. He was more worried his wife would create drama.

          Phil should have notice and made them leave. They didn’t have to hang around and party.

          He was too stupid and selfish. He was in that mindframe that he said sorry and expects everyone to move forward and be happy.

          • BeeSA, I believe Phil was in work mode in that scene. When you get to his level in a prestigious law firm things are expected that he must adhere to. Lina wouldn’t have left anyway because she wouldn’t have cowered in front of Kim. Plus, she was curious about Kim and this would give Lina a chance to observe Kim and show her that her place would always be on the sidelines, even if she was pregnant.

          • I agree with Tracie, this may have been a wedding, but it was still a work function. He was in work mode, probably praying the whole thing didn’t implode—and of course, it did.

    • Diane knows Phil, I doubt she would have said anything to Phil. He didn’t think Lina and his relationship was anyone else’s business, including his children, he certainly wouldn’t have wanted to talk to Lina’s friend about it. I think the wives talked about amongst themselves, and they probably talked at their husbands, but I don’t think anyone would take on Phil about it.

      • I agree Tara! Diane would of worked on Lina not Phil.

        What did you think about where Phil told Wayne “I hurt her confidence and I didn’t realize it until tonight.” I could feel guilt radiating off Phil in that one sentence..The damage he did to Lina and his family was sinking in at every turn.

        • Tracie: Totally agree and the scene in the car was the realization point.

          Phil spends all of SN putting out emotional fires caused by his behavior, not just with Lina. His affair and behavior reached far beyond his and Lina’s relationship. It hurt his family, it reached his workplace and his friendships.

          • Just Diane put so much pressure on Lina, but i do agree with your points.

            Phil needs to be smacked in the face first before he sees the bigger picture. He’s just so focus on moving forward not realising he needs to repair the foundation first.

          • Bee, all of SN is his smack in the face. He spends the entire book dealing with the fall-out of what he did.

            He’s cocky and self-confident, that’s not going to change. His personality is set.

            He can regret, but can only fix going forward. I’m not a defender of Phil (like I’ve said before, I think he’s one of the villains in WPF–and yes, I believe a character can be both the protagonist and the antagonist).

            But, I do believe in redemption and forgiveness and he works throughout SN to earn both.

          • The picture scene started the foundation repair. I once said Phil never relaxed back into his life, until Kim moved to NY. He no longer had to deal with her on a weekly basis and he could fully concentrate on righting his wrong. Phil did worry about Logan accepting Liam. After three months, I don’t think Phil was as pissed at him as he was worried Logan would never accept Liam and his family would never be whole again..Lina wouldn’t be happy if Logan didn’t come around.That’s why in the flash forward scene when Phil felt a surge of emotion watching Logan and Liam together, I thought to myself Phil finally feels whole again and can enjoy his family again..

          • Tracie & Tara – i understand. Still drives me nuts that Phil doesn’t really understands till he sees it smacked in his face.

            At least he acknowledges the situation he put his secretary in during the affair.

    • Hi BeeSa, I’m replying to your post at the bottom…

      “That scene also pissed me off. He heard Lina call her a whore but didn’t hear Kim reply to that statement “your husband couldn’t get enough of him”. Selective hearing?
      Then Kim confirms what she said by sending her print screen of the sms’s Phil sent which were daily, some more than once a day and sleepover at her house.
      I would have left him there and then. Especially when Phil barely showed any remorse of those messages. I honestly did not like Phil here and was happy she went to meet Nick.”

      That part made me sooo mad, where Phil Phil heard Lina call Kim a whore but he didn’t hear Kim’s reply? Yeah ok, whatever Phil.
      If I had been in Lina’s shoes, I would’ve let Phil know that under no circumstances are either of us going to that wedding!! I don’t care what people at work would think, I wasn’t going and neither was he! He said he’d spend his whole life making it up to Lina, then prove it, and don’t go to a wedding where either of us would have to see that bitch. I would not be attending and since I wouldn’t trust him at that point if he attended without me , then he wasn’t going either. End of discussion for me.

  18. Here’s another thought, remember when Lina asked Logan if Tiffany knew about Liam and he just nodded? What do you think he told Tiffany and what do you think her reaction was and what advice she gave Logan? She was more mature than him and loved kids, so I’m sure she probably told him to talk to his dad about the anger and don’t take that anger out on a baby. Logan is stubborn like Phil, so I bet that didn’t go over very well with him.

    • Well that makes me sick too! First off, Lina would of left and he would of come back to an empty room. I don’t think he would of been nice enough to get her ice, she would of been trying to get him naked the minute he walked in the room wanting his sympathy…He would of said something to the effect of “its over with us, why do you have to continue to bait my wife?” Everyone knows about our affair now, so to shelter our careers my advice to you would be to ignore this situation.” Also, if you want my involvement in raising this child you will let this drop.” When he got back to the room he would have had to get a ride home with Wayne and Diane. Another disappointment for Wayne and black mark on his career!

      • For sure Tracie, I also agree that Lina would’ve left if he’d gone to Kim…and she’d be right to!

    • She maybe more mature, but without seeing the whole dynamic, I think she would have been sympathetic to Logan and his feelings.

    • Tiffany is still a teenager so how mature can she be? I bet she sided with Logan that Phil was a jerk but told Logan not to take his anger out on the baby. I think she felt sorry for Lina but would have been curious about Kim.

    • Logan isn’t stubborn like Phil so much as he stands his ground when he knows he’s right (it doesn’t come from a place of ego, like Phil)…but also he’s a lot sweeter than Phil, I think he came around to Liam much faster than Phil would’ve done in Logan’s place and at his age (if that had been Phil’s dad bringing home a love child)…Phil probably would’ve punched his dad’s lights out for bringing his affair baby home to his mom!

  19. I have a question about chapter 15 when Lina slapped Kim at the wedding. What would have happened if Phil ignored Lina and went to Kim’s room to check up on her? If Lina just sighed and said do what you want, I can’t look at you right now. So Phil goes to Kim’s room and says what? Let’s say Kim’s cupping her cheek and says “I can’t talk properly because that woman hit me so hard. I think she fractured my cheekbone. She can’t do this to me and calls me a whore?” How would Phil approach Kim? Do you think he would be nice to her and ask how she is? Get her some ice? Plead with her not to call the police?!? I wasn’t happy with Phils response to Lina and thought maybe he was trying to do some damage control for himself and to prevent further gossip.

    • Mute point, once he realized just how upset Lina was, he wouldn’t have gone to Kim’s room. He’s concerned 1. he looks like the cheating ass that he was and now everyone knew it, 2. He doesn’t want Kim pressing charges and 3. Kim is a whore, 4. he knew he was already on shaky ground with Lina, he wasn’t chancing it.

    • When I first read that scene I was pissed at Phil…he just dragged Lina out of the ballroom like he was fleeing a crime scene…in my opinion he was definitely just really embarassed for himself because he was still trying to keep more people from finding out about the affair..and Lina was right! That little gutter cat Kim WAS baiting her all night!! The biatch had it coming!

      • Every action had has a reaction, Kim should remember that before she goads some fool’s wife (I’m sure there are many more married men in her future..she couldn’t care less, I doubt she learned her lesson, she’s to arrogant)

      • Omg. Gutter cat!! LOLOLOL.
        my reaction was exactly the same Miri. all through dinner phil chose to ignore Kim egging Lina on because he didn’t want to cause a scene. Lina even said she’s been goading me all night and Phil kept saying ignore her(so much easier said then done). Then he says I heard you call her a whore. That’s all I heard.” I kept wondering who he was more worried about. Lina or himself? This was before the texts and pictures so I can see why Phil didn’t confront Kim here.

        • Ha! I’d like to see Phil trying to ignore some man that Lina had an affair with! He tried to punch Nick and he hadn’t even slept with Lina! Phil was not at all understanding of what Lina was going through that night..he was lucky punching Kim was all she did! If that had happened in Jersey there’d have been some table flipping for sure!! Hahaha…at that point I reallt thought Phil was mostly concerned with his own image, as he was the one who worked with many of the guests there…well too bad..Lina was as well behaved as a human could possibly be in that situation, but even she has a limit!

          • Right! I do wish a scene from Jersey Shore was included in this chapter. LOL. Some table flipping and punching would have made me happy. Bahaha.

          • That scene also pissed me off. He heard Lina call her a whore but didn’t hear Kim reply to that statement “your husband couldn’t get enough of him”. Selective hearing?
            Then Kim confirms what she said by sending her print screen of the sms’s Phil sent which were daily, some more than once a day and sleepover at her house.
            I would have left him there and then. Especially when Phil barely showed any remorse of those messages. I honestly did not like Phil here and was happy she went to meet Nick.

  20. I’ve asked this question before but didn’t get any feedback. In Chapter 21 l, when Tom said “but you have Lina!” Lina’s….then Phil held up his hand and said “I know what my wife is. you don’t have to sell her to me.” Phil’s thoughts as he left his office was he wanted to punch him in the mouth. What do you think Tom was going to say before Tom held up his hand?

    Lina’s gorgeous; Lina’s the envy at every function; Lina’s perfect; Lina’s hot; Lina’s every man’s fantasy…What?

    Why do you girls think he wanted to punch him in the mouth? Was it over the entire situation or that his thoughts were on Lina? Could it have also been that he understood at that moment how the legal community was talking about his wife behind his back?

    • I think Tom would say Lina’s perfect, that encompasses everything. I think Phil feels jealous, in that he doesn’t want another man thinking about Lina and is pissed off at himself for the affair, and for putting his and Linas relationship at risk and he’s angry at Kim for making a scene.

    • Tracie I remember when I read that I was thinking that the main reason Phil cut him off was a) because he was pissed that Tim was gossiping and b) because he HATES being reminded of what he did to Lina…Phil was being self righteous (even though he did do what they say he did after all) but at the same time he was right to cut Tom off…he and Tom aren’t girlfriends, they’re not gonna stand around and gossip about Phil’s Love life lol he could barely accept being reprimanded by his own brother, he’s not gonna take it from a colleague

    • Tracie, I don’t remember you asking this! I agree with both Tara and Miri. I think if anything, the anger was towards himself. Phil wants to kick himself for being an idiot and maybe even ashamed that a man who is just a colleague is the one reprimanding him and pointing out how stupid he was to cheat on someone as perfect as Lina. Like, who is dumb enough to do that? You Phil!

    • I mean Nick saw it, Tom saw it, the guy in the elevator in NyC saw it. Lina’s in a different league. Phil totally took her for granted!

      • I agree with all you girls…Kim hung Phil out to dry in that scene. All his colleagues probably envied him for having Lina and I love that he felt reprimanded, even though I love my Phil. Phil also knows by Toms comment that Lina would have men standing in line if she would of cut him loose.

        • Tracie I think in that scene more than anything, the other men were jealous that he’d had sex with Kim ? just cause she’s hot ….men ?

          • Actually I thought this when Kim showed up with Phil’s shirt in the meeting. I can totally see guys thinking Phil is THE stud for sleeping with Kim. Damn it!

          • That makes me sick…I’m going with he felt like he had been reprimanded…and other men were thinking about Lina! Lol. Phil wouldn’t want to be idolized for his affair with Kim by anyone. He was ashamed by his actions. Also, he wanted Lina protected from the gossip.

          • yes, sorry Janet, that’s what I meant…when she showed up with his shirt the other men were jealous of Phil…I think that chat with Tom happened right after?

          • Tracie for sure…but if anything, the the other men were probably jealous that he got to be with both Kim and Lina (at the same time! he’d go from Kim back home to Lina!)…they were probably jealous and a little awed of him as well …bleh, men…:(

          • I think the men who weren’t aware of the affair that happened, were more in shock when Kim pulled that stunt. They knew Phil was married and the ring on his finger confirms it. I don’t think they were envy of him at the time, just shocked that Phil who they viewed as a brilliant lawyer with strong work ethics would do the exact opposite. That saying pops in my head “don’t shit where you eat”

            Yes, they all checked Kim out when she sat down but the stunt was so unexpected and especially when it was aimed directly at Phil.

            Phil knew her stunt did damage to his image / character. That’s why he told Tom to not involve Kim if he wants to keep a good business relationship between them.

      • I agree Janet! Lina is in a league of her own, a class act…Phil was blessed with more luck than sense in being able to hang onto her lol ?

        • Ya Miri lucky guy?..he should have actually run out of luck for what he did(Lina should have punished him a bit more :P)

    • Hi Tracie,
      I think Tom was about to say before Phil held his hand up “why go out for burgers when you have steak at home?” Tom was going to add “it just takes a good amount of stupidity to allow yourself to be in this situation. I didn’t think you were this stupid”.

      I think Phil wanted to punch Tom because Phil knew Tom was right and Phil hated being reminded of that.
      Also in that moment, Phil was under a lot of stress at home and now at work so he was just looking to punch somebody since he could not punch himself. Maybe Phil also remembered how Dr. Hottie handle him when Phil tried to punch Dr. Hottie.

    • He was so pissed off. His affair ended with Kim over a year ago and then she pulled that stunt at work! He knew people would assume the worst and then Tom confirms it. He wants to just move forward and yet people still talking about it. He hates being reminded at what an idiot he was to cheat on Lina and the fact that other men are shocked that he would cheat on Lina when they themselves know she’s perfect.
      Tom basicially saying, Kim is hot but why would you go there when you have Lina?

      • BeeSA i think that was spot on..the legal community thinking he was an idiot for cheating on Lina would bruise Phil’s ego. Also, like he said in the Thanksgiving scene, he prides himself on reading people and he was an outstanding attorney and those colleagues of his know he has that talent and then Kim leads him down the path to the lowest time in his life.

        • Then she pulls another stunt by bringing Liam to see Phil at work. He doesn’t want people to associate him with her at all! Love that he basically bans her from entering the building after the stunt and wants security throw her out. Must have been embarrassing for her!

  21. Girls, for the record…I LOVE my Kindle Unlimited (Read Free). I don’t know how many books I’ve started and think HATE YOU and just get to return them. I know longer have buyers remorse on books that I can’t stand.

  22. Piggy-backing on Janet’s comment.
    I come across cheating wives tales all the time, and they hold zero appeal. Why do you think that is? Why is it easier to understand a man cheating versus a woman?

    • I have an answer for this !!! 🙂

      I think for a woman to cheat there usually needs to have an emotional attachment of some sort–so as a woman reading these stories with cheating heroines holds little appeal as we would expect/prefer to see them do something about their existing relationship before moving on to something else.

      Yet, we accept that men have affairs based on lust not love, for me this makes great storytelling–where does the relationship go, does it move from lust to love, if not, can they go back and save their marriage–does the wife want to save the marriage once they know about the affair. How do they move forward–can they move forward?? Angst at it’s best!!

      My thoughts–definitely a double standard, but it works for me 🙂

        • I agree girls! I won’t read a cheating woman book….I also like the first of these books when the wife finds out or catches them in the act and the husband is either chasing the wife out of the building/house or they are dreading walking up to the house knowing she knows. I also like a HEA like SN.

          • Me too I love a man grovelling like in the unwanted wife-Natasha Anders

            It irks me to read a cheating wife/gf novel I can’t stomach a woman cheating and mostly I find it boring and ya the lacking angst

    • So true Kbabe. I just can’t pick up a book if the heroine cheats even if she has a good reason for it. Not if the couple ends up reconciling. For me, I think it’s because I hold women to a higher standard. In books anyway. And I will never believe it was just sex for the heroine so it makes it harder for me to forgive.
      Do these books with wives cheating have HEA(with husbands)?

      • I’ve never been able to get into one long enough to find out if there’s an HEA. There’s one that I hear is crazy good- Arsen by Mia Asher. The couple deals with infertility. I downloaded that one, so we’ll see.
        You know me- I have a very open mind, and I try to remember books are not my reality, so my opinions shouldn’t matter. But I guess a cheating heroine in a book isn’t something I can reconcile in reality, and I can’t separate the two. All of the women (in real life) I’ve heard of cheating were incredibly spoiled and selfish, and I just don’t know how a mom can do that to her kids. It really is a double standard.

        • A cheating heroine who is the wife, that is.
          The OW as the heroine I can read- those are interesting.

        • I think we expect women, and you’re right, particularly ones with children, to have different priorities, right or wrong. Double standard? Probably.

        • Lord! I HATED that book and I couldn’t finish it but skimmed the ending to see who the h ends up with. I hated the heroine and saw her as the villain. Hated her! And there was no justice because the selfish villain won imo. ?

          • Oh I have that in my tbr list..I thought it was gonna be the Hero who cheats?? If not then I probably won’t be interested enough to bother reading lol

          • Sure, she’s the villain, but I was put through the ringer when I said Phil was a villain in WPF?!!? ???

          • Phil was no angel. LOL. Nick should have been the protagonist and Phil the Ant. Bahaha. Tracie and Katie are throwing up.

          • Janet, no Nick’s not the protagonist ??? but that doesn’t mean Phil isn’t both the protagonist and the antagonist. Kim’s the obvious villain/antagonist. I’m not going to start the debate again… but at times Phil’s his own worst enemy WPF.

          • Very good point Tara, Phil is often his own worst enemy…he doesnt need anyone else to sabotage him, he’s done that all on his own

    • I don’t mind reading a book when the h cheats if the H is being an ass – pushing her away.

      Slip of the Tongue i enjoyed and there was another book where the husband avoided his wife. He did a complete 180. She even mentioned she wants a divorce. He refused even when he could barely peck her on the cheek. She landed up having an affair. Turns out her husband was raped but too ashamed to tell his wife.

    • My mate and i have that saying “our hearts are in our va-jay-jay” even if you think you just having sex with a guy for the physical act, we are bound to develop feelings for that person.

      A close mate of mine (she shares the same name as our favorite character – Kim) has been sleeping with a guy since Feburary, she told him she’s not keen for a relationship. Then i met up with them and bought a mate with me. Turns out that guy has been chatting to my mate who came with me on Tinder! Talk about awkward and there was tears. They still only “sex buddies” but she has STRONG feelings for him.

      That’s why i can understand and read books where the wife/gf cheats if the husband/bf becomes emotionally distance.

  23. Hello Detectives, I missed the topics for today. I was trying to follow Mueller’s testimony in the morning but an hour of yes, yes, true, can you repeat, I lost interest. In any case, husband doesn’t think it was enough for impeachment.

    Also, some school gossip going around about a couple splitting up after 30 years together(they are younger than me) and it was the wife leaving the husband. So that got me thinking, do you think if the circumstances were reversed and it was Lina cheating with someone other than Nick for 4 months because Phil was working too much/too busy, would we forgive Lina, would Phil? It’s so much harder to forgive the women isn’t it?

    Miri, I think the dancing picture happened in the middle of their affair. Not early on. Phil was in the city so much because of that case. So once NY case was over they must have gone to SB. SB pic was the last one taken in chronological order.

    • If Lina cheated on Phill I can see his heart crushing and him never forgiving Lina at all…he would even become livid after the agony I guess…even though he agrees to live together for the sake of children,I can imagine him being indifferent to her presence…

    • I completely missed Mueller’s testimony, between 6 hours of driving and 9 1/2 hours of meetings, I was done by the time I got home. I had to search for a NY Times article, it sounds like a lot of nothing.

      Originally, I thought Lina having a 4 month affair would have ended their relationship, but Phil thought she was sleeping with Nick while they were apart. Did he think that was tit for tat?? I don’t know. It’s not really conceivable as it doesn’t fit Lina as a character, she wouldn’t be the character Laura created.

    • Oh ok, I think I’m actually confusing the dancing picture with the picture taken of him and Kim at the bar with I think his hand on her thigh or something? But anyway either way neither photo was from the night they first slept together…for some reason I thought it was…

      • and Janet I think I asked the same question once and the answer was that Phil and Lina would reconcile if she cheated, but he’d be sitting in jail while they did it lol

        • That’s right Miri. And Tara’s right. It’s inconceivable forLina to do this. I was just shocked to hear the gossip.

          • Lina made out with Nick in SN while she was still married to Phill ..the next day Phill asked Lina something like this I don’t exactly remember the conversation ‘why are not looking at me and talking…don’t do anything with him…I’ll get the separation orders’…so Lina is capable of cheating…

          • Hinata – that scene was in WPF. Lina had already kicked Phil out and basically told him it’s over.

            I wonder if Phil checked his phone app that night and saw Lina located at the yacht club. It was mentioned in SN that he checked the app every night before bed.

  24. When Kim told Phil to look at the cute video she took of Liam on her cell, what went through your mind?
    Straight away, i thoutht “she probably has a naked photo of herself and wants Phil to see it” and get him all hot and heavy for her.

    I’m surprised she never tried to sneakily send him dirty photos or appear half naked when Phil was visiting Liam.

    • Frankly BeeSA,I thought she planned on making Phill jealous by making him catch her chatting with some other man in the firm..to show she moved on or something like that

      • Phil couldn’t have cared less lol, but I’m sure Kim tried that a time or two before she saw that he didn’t even notice her talking to other men (she wasn’t Lina after all lol)

          • Yes Miri you are right…I know he loves Lina a lot and cannot imagine another man taking her

          • Hi Girls, If Lina would of cheated, it would have been a whole new ballgame. I also think they would of eventually got back together no matter the circumstances. Remember in WPF, where Phil ask Lina if she was still talking to Nick to punish him? He was thinking tit for tat, but she never did. Also, the video scene, I think Kim was trying to pull Phil in with a family type environment with her and Liam. I think she was hoping they could share a moment regarding their son. That scene is where I say she FINALLY recognized that Phil wasn’t leaving Lina.

  25. Oh, reason why i mentioned Phil affair wasn’t planned, is because he no doubt didn’t have the urge at all to stray before that very night. So there was no warning signs for him. He never notice Kim or wanted her till that very night. He hit his all time low the night he first slept with Kim and it was easy to continue since he and Lina were barely communicating as a couple.
    He only woke up when he went to Steamboat and was hit with memories of Lina during their happy times and then sees Kim standing in their home.

    That’s why i like to believe he only slept with Kim once after SB in NY. Remember it ended two weeks later. I like to believe he kept his distance from her because he was mad at her BJ stunt and also started feeling guilty. Then when he was in NY after winning the case – on a high and grabbed kim for that dance, he still was on a “high” and followed her to her room and slept with her that night and for the first time, he felt ashamed and dirty as soon as they were done, hence the reason he flew home early on friday and did not sleep with Kim on their last day. I want to believe he honestly missed Lina and their happy times and just wanted to see her face.

    Really hope he wasn’t sexin Kim daily after SB. It would be an ass move on his side to only stop once Lina finally initiated sex first.

      • In these four months didn’t Phill ever feel guilty even once?or thought to stop what he was doing with Kim? I’m just curious..don’t get angry with me ..?

        • According SN, after SB he couldn’t look at Kim without thinking of Lina. So only the last two weeks of the affair.

          Is annoying that he wanted Kim almost daily – even mentioned twice a day that he contacted her (scene in WPF when Lina saw the sms) and it only died down after SB. Surprised he survived having only a handful of sex session with Lina once the affair came out. He went from having sex with Kim almost daily for 4 months to just about nothing for 6 months!

      • Hard to believe he missed her during the fog. If he did then surely he would feel guilty of his actions.

        I think he forgot about their happy times during the fog stage. He didn’t want to think about home, Katie or Lina.

        • Hi girls,

          “I think he forgot about their happy times during the fog stage. He didn’t want to think about home, Katie or Lina.” – I think this is probably accurate…he was using Kim to avoid thinking about everything going on at home with Lina and the kids…from both of their perspectives (Phil’s and Kim’s), they were both coming into their affair for very self-centred reasons..him for escapism and control and her for attempted husband theft LOL…it was an unhealthy and unsustainable relationship from the start, they didn’t enter into it under wholesome circumstances or good intentions..

          • and really, both got burned quite badly (not to mention Lina and the kids did as well)

          • Girls we talked about this before, Phil was able to keep his two worlds segregated until he couldn’t. Kim was his escape and Lina was his reality. When he wasn’t happy in one, he spent time in the other, until it no longer came an escape but a burden. I don’t think he felt guilt until after the SB incident and during that two weeks he was trying to distance himself from Kim to let her down easy and keep her from going ballistic. But the night Lina expressed her love to him and gave herself freely, he knew where he should of been all along and what he had to do. That is when the guilt and remorse probably overwhelmed him.

    • I’m sure Phil noticed that Kim was very attractive before the night they slept together, he’s only human after all, but it was probably in a very abstract, detached way (not in a I-wanna-F-her type of way)

      “Then when he was in NY after winning the case – on a high and grabbed kim for that dance, he still was on a “high” and followed her to her room and slept with her that night” – I thought that was the night they first slept together? (not towards the end of their affair?)… do I have the chronology wrong?

      • In SN he said the look in his face wasn’t about Kim, it was because he got word that his biggest case at the time agreed to settle. He was celebrating. He didn’t even remember dancing with her. He said it must have been for a second.

        Argh! Hope Phil suffered a lot on his own (at Farside house) for what he did. Feeling like kak at work functions when he had to go alone, knowing everyone knows he F up and he only has himself to blame. Wouldn’t mind him hearing one or two guys mentioning how hot his wife is and wouldn’t mind taking her out on a date once her divorce is over with Phil.

        • Laura, can we maybe pleeeeease have a mini scene of Phil being alone and desperately lonely in his rental house, or maybe just him and Liam there, and him ruminating and wishing he didn’t feel like a single father? It must have been such a shock to his system, to go from coming home to a warm home and a beautiful wife and family and home cooked meals, to coming home to an empty house and trying to take care of Liam in his own and trying to cook his own dinner and missing the companionship of his wife and kids…

  26. So I was thinking Phill strayed because he noticed that Lina was emotionally distant…when did Lina actually become emotionally distant is it when she saw Nick in Katie’s therapy?or even before that because she was worried sick of katie? And why didn’t Phill confront Lina when he felt that drift in her ?

    • Hinata, their relationship was in shambles before therapy remember? I think Phil felt useless around Lina and didn’t feel needed or wanted. Like he said, “you didn’t seem to want me and she did.” As simple as that sounds I think Phil really meant just that.

      • Hi Janet, ya I understood that Lina was emotionally distant to Phill but I didn’t understand why he didn’t speak to her or ask her about it
        Ok it may not be Phill’s character if he did that but when he felt something was wrong or off with his wife whom he loved so much he should have asked something…I don’t think ego should come in marriage

        Sorry I might be asking a wrong question …but I don’t have a clear picture of what is or was going in Phill’s mind during the affair or after that

        • “I understood that Lina was emotionally distant to Phill but I didn’t understand why he didn’t speak to her or ask her about it
          Ok it may not be Phill’s character if he did that but when he felt something was wrong or off with his wife whom he loved so much he should have asked something…I don’t think ego should come in marriage”…Hinata, I had this same thought as well a lot; why not just come out and talk to Lina about it? The thing with Phil though is, even though he is a good guy, he does have a big ego..it’s part of what makes him charismatic and attractive and dominant, but it also nearly brought about his downfall ….ugh! communication people!!! it’s like that whole “I’m not gonna apologize first, he/she should apologize first”…who cares who’s gonna apologize, just somebody do it already before it’s too late!!

          • I think if his ego had been a smidge smaller and less calcified, he would have brought up his concerns to Lina well before the affair happened..

          • I totally agree with you Miri –
            communication people!!! it’s like that whole “I’m not gonna apologize first, he/she should apologize first”…who cares who’s gonna apologize, just somebody do it already before it’s too late!!-had Phill come out first and discussed about their marital problem the cheating might have not happened and I even imagine Phill taking Katie to her therapy sessions and befriending Nick 😛

      • Agree Janet,
        Lina was also crushing on Doctor Hottie during this time. I think her emotional needs were being met by Nick so not much left for Phil. No excuse for what Phil did but he did feel unwanted by Lina.

      • “their relationship was in shambles before therapy remember?” …at what point do you girls think the breakdown in connection and communication started? Was it as soon as the troubles with Katie began? Before then? A little while after? I don’t remember how long they were struggling with Katie before she started seeing Nick..

        • “Lina was also crushing on Doctor Hottie during this time.”…then when Katie started seeing Nick the attraction between Lina and Nick didn’t help things at home with Phil…

          So do you think that if there had been absolutely zero interest between Lina and Nick (let’s say Nick was indeed that old doctor dude that Phil had envisioned him as before he met Nick), do you think Phil still would have cheated? Or did his affair begin before Katie started seeing Nick? And if Lina hadn’t been attracted to (and distracted) by Nick, do you think she would have sensed that something was going on with Phil (well be before she found the pink tie in the opening scene in WPF)? Would she have been more concerned about their growing distance and mutual coldness toward each other?

          • Maybe I’m forgetting incorrectly but didn’t Phil meet Nick for the first time at Megan’s graduation, after the affair ended?

          • Tara – Yes, Phil only met Nick after his affair. He thought Nick was an old guy who smoked a pipe.

            Pity, he only realised Nick was a hottie after the affair. Affair would have ended there and then.

          • I don’t mean when did Phil meet Nick for the first time, but more when did Katie (and Lina) start seeing Nick?…because let’s say Nick and Lina’s mutual attraction and time spent together contributed to Phil and Lina’s increasing disconnect…
            So, in Phil’s timeline of events, his affair went from approximately January to April (?)…how long before his affair began did Phil and Lina start butting heads about Katie? And how long before his affair did Katie (and Lina) start seeing Nick? Because the one-two punch for Phil was his and Lina’s disagreements about how to deal with Katie, and then also Lina’s increasing emotional distance (which we can attribute maybe somewhat to her connecting with Nick, with her being able to communicate with Nick at a time when she and Phil weren’t really communicating)…because let’s say if Nick was the old pipe smoking doctor, and Lina hadn’t felt that attraction and connection with him, maybe she and Phil would have still disagreed about Katie but Lina would’ve been much more attuned to Phil?
            Eeeee sorry if I’m rambling/not making any sense…

    • I think there was a lot of stress and tension in the home. You know how it goes, you land up snapping at the people closest to you when you under a lot of stress / pressure. Lina probably had the weight of the world on her shoulders, knowing her “job” was to look after the house and kids. She probably had no time to listen or focus on Phil if he tried to talk about them as a couple.

      They were also bumping heads on how help Katie. She probably also stopped communicating with Phil regarding Katie knowing he would just disagree with her.

      Then when it was bedtime, Lina probably went to bed early and fell asleep within minutes from all the emotional stress she had to deal with each and every day.

      So i think even if Phil tried to talk to her, she probably wasn’t in the right mindframe herself to “listen”.

      Also Phil affair wasn’t planned on his side. It happened after an arguement and Kim was there to listen, give him an ego rub by saying all the right things and agreeing to him. She no doubt notice he was at his “weak” stage and went for the kill. He no doubt felt fantastic to feel like a man and not a useless father figure. Remember he said to Lina that he felt like he was failing as a father.

      • I think this pretty much sums up the whole situation…but I still think Phil didn’t/wouldn’t have brought up his feelings of uselessness, etc. to Lina even if she had been available to listen, because he was too proud

        • Miri – yes, he only started emotionally opening up to Lina when he moved back home. Before he would hide his pain or only show it through anger. Typical alpha, not allowed to show weak emotions.

          • Yes, the separation was very difficult for them but I think it was exactly what Phil needed…he needed to wake up a little, realize what was most important (his family, not his pride), and he also needed to be humbled a little (well as much as Phil could be humbled lol)…if he hadn’t had to move out he wouldn’t have been able to really appreciate that his actions could have potentially cost him his marriage and family…before the separation, he was still trying to just sweep things under the rug and hurry things along without admitting to himself just how much damage he’s caused

  27. Hello everyone,
    I have seen Katie’s question and the replies down below
    I feel that because of Liam’s birth Phill was evolved into a more mature man..he became more considerate of how his family would be effected with his actions
    If Kim was not pregnant and the affair went under the rug… I think he wouldn’t have cared at all to have another affair(when things were not going well at home or with lina) with another Kim
    Eventhough a man loved only a woman is their a possibility that he lusted only one?

    • Hi Hinata and Holley too. I agree with Tracie 200%. I’m just not on board with this theory. if this is the type of a man Phil is, there is no way Laura would have written him as the hero. At that point we are talking about a different person-weak and spineless. You know the saying you can never make the same mistake twice because second time is not a mistake, it’s a choice.

      • No no no the affair was the biggest regret of Phil’s life with or without Lina discovering it. He would never have done that again. That’s not the character I wrote.

        And LOL Janet. No way in hell would Phil wear short shorts!

        • wait – what’s wrong with a guy wearing shorts? Like, khaki or basketball shorts? what does Phil wear when it’s really hot out? when he’s out barbquing? Poor guy’s gonna overheat! lol

          • Haha Miri. I was wondering about those short dolphin shorts. I don’t know what else to call them. Khaki and loose basketball shorts are fine with me.

      • Hi Girls, he would not have cheated again! No way! Having a low point in your life, doesn’t mean your entire personality changes.

        • Tracie I LOVE your absolute loyalty..it never wavers…you must be the best wifey ever, your hubby’s one lucky dude 🙂

        • Plus he came damn close to losing Lina and didn’t help that there was another man wanting to snatch her.

          While he was with Kim there was another man making his way into her life.

          Phil received a HUGE kick in the ass. Phil will be on his best behaviour.

      • So much is clarified in SN, that I didn’t think even if the story was tweaked and changed, Phil as a character isn’t going to change. The scenarios don’t change the characters.

        • Well, I guess so Hinata. You know what I mean. What I was trying to say was once Phil had his come to Jesus moment, the affair was over. And from what I’ve seen, people who have these aha moments don’t repeat the same mistakes. Maybe Phil’s priority wasn’t Lina or his family the year they were having trouble with Katie, but it is now so I don’t question his integrity. My issue with phil has always been why he couldn’t go look for Jesus earlier. Haha

    • Ok Laura I’m sorry to have said that..but Phill was too selfish in WPF compared to SN that’s why I thought if things went down the spiral he would have committed adultery again
      I’m sorry I was wrong in judging him

  28. Guys, weird question but what did Phil wear whenever he went running? I hope to God they were basketball shorts. I have a neighbor across the street who is in his late 40s early 50s and he jogs ever morning around 7am. He’s fit but wears short shorts. Almost like those dolphin shorts. I hate them! LOL

  29. So, if Phil had “gotten away” with the affair- no baby, no wife finding out, no crazy Kim- would he cheat again?

    • I don’t think he would cheat again. I’d like to think once he came to his senses, he would not be that stupid again. I also hope it would niggle at his conscience for the rest of his life, that fear she could still find out.

      • Kbabe I don’t think he would of cheated again. Once they were back on track it would of been like it never happened and he would be grateful he was in the same zone and went undetected…

    • So, he came to realize the mistake on his own? He wouldn’t cheat again. Otherwise, Phil wouldn’t be the character we know. Having said that, I do think most men would cheat if they knew they wouldn’t get caught.

      Tara, in the Bronze Horseman Alexander didn’t cheat because he knew Tania would know the truth afterwards. If he thought Tania would never find out about that night I think he would have gone through with it. What do you think?

      • Yikes, that’s a tough question. Again, I’d like to think no, but it’s probably more what I want versus where the story was going, their relationship was a disaster at that point. ?

    • Remember in the bonus scene in Phil’s office, where he felt like a haze had lifted when he was looking at Kim, and he suddenly felt nothing but regret? At that point Lina didn’t know about the affair (she had her suspicions, but she didn’t know – I think that scene took place after they reconnected that night in the opening chapter)…I think he genuinely felt regret even without there being any consequences for him at that point..I don’t think he felt good about what he did…so I don’t think he would cheat again

      • here, I found the scene…

        “It had been four days since he’d last fucked her. As he watched her across the room, pouring him a drink, her tight dress clinging to the curve of her hips, he felt nothing but regret. It was like he’d stepped out of a fog and he could now see the world clearly again”.

    • Ok how about this? Let’s say Lina never found out, Kim isn’t crazy, and she never got pregnant. And we all agree that Phil would never cheat again. In this scenario, would Phil remember the affair with fondness? Would normal Kim still work in Phil’s firm(because she likes MD)? Remain on friendly terms? Oh god. I feel ill.

      • Janet, what’s MD?
        I don’t think Phil would remember the affair with fondness, because he came to feel guilty about it…I think he would just pretend it never happened and move forward…I think Normal Kim and Phil would just act professional around each other

          • You are right Bee. Phil would have made a clean break here and eventually Kim would have moved on to a different firm. No way on overnights since she won’t be on his team anymore.

        • Janet & Miri – what about the overnight travels? Think he would still travel with her overnight or try limit it?

          I hope he would try remove her from his cases out of respect for Lina, even though she doesn’t know about Kim.

          He definitely wouldn’t remember the affiar with fondness. He would try erase it from his mind and pretend it never happened at all.

          • I don’t think he would travel with her again…plus there would be no reason to if they weren’t working on the same cases together anymore

      • “Oh god. I feel ill.” Me too!

        And, no, I don’t think he’d remember the affair with fondness. I think he’d feel guilty and remorseful. I’d hope he’d treat her with respect at work, but wouldn’t interact with her unless completely necessary.

        • He did say he was sorry in the deleted scene. That’s huge for Phil. Lol. But all these what ifs… if Kim was a normal woman then the affair shouldn’t have happened.

          • “if Kim was a normal woman then the affair shouldn’t have happened.” lol Janet that’s a pretty good point actually…but Kim took it to an extreme, like she went and got pregnant (we strongly suspect) on purpose..not all side chicks do that (only the psycho ones lol)

    • Hey Katie,
      I thought about this and I sure want to believe that Phil would never cheat again. But the affair was just sex for Phil so why wouldn’t he do it again especially if nothing of consequence happened after Kim. What if he and Lina went through a period where they are disconnected agai? With Kim, he was having sex with her and going home to Lina and sleeping just fine. Sex with Kim was a mechanical pleasurable experience for Phil and if I am not mistaken, he was still in love with his wife, even giving Lina a ring for their 25 year anniversary (deleted scene).
      I think as long as he and Lina were going strong and were connected, he wouldn’t cheat but who knows if they were going through ebbs and flow of marriage.
      Maybe his conscience would have killed him and he would never do it again.

      • “He was going home to Lina and sleeping just fine”…lol very true…maybe I’m being very naive in thinking that his guilty conscience wouldn’t let him do it again..

      • I would hope he wouldn’t cheat again and that he did feel guilty. Only reason why he didn’t tell Lina is because he doesn’t want to hurt her over something that meant nothing to him and a bad decision he made, which he regrets.

        • He wouldn’t cheat again girls. Remember him telling Lina in Chapter 7 of SN, that the affair was the lowest point of his life. When Phil transitioned Kim to Wayne, she was transitioned. He wouldn’t have traveled with her and she would of been treated like any other associate. Lina is his treasure and he lost sight of that and I can assure you he wouldn’t again. Lina also lost sight of Phil as well, thus her attraction to Nick. Laura’s words “Perfect Storm”

  30. I started reading a new book, ‘Alienation of Affections’ by Portia Porter…it’s a comedy about a wife seeking revenge on her husband’s mistress..I was surprised to learn that in North America there is a law where you can sue the OW/OM…so I looked it up, and there was a case in North Carolina back in 2010 where a wife sued and WON a $9-million dollar settlement against her husband’s mistress lol! Here’s the link…https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wife-sues-other-woman-awarded-9m/

    • The wife in the lawsuit didn’t really expect to get paid I don’t think, she did it to make a point (and to give the OW a hard time, I’m guessing)…

    • That’s horrible but funny at the same time! Did the couple divorce? I read the wife is 60 but the OW was 49. Ugh.

      Tracie, I loved the scene. I imagined an office like in the movie Devil wears Prada. LOL!

      • the article didn’t say but I’m assuming they divorced…with all the cheating that goes on in marriages, I’m surprised I haven’t heard of this before..

  31. Girls I have a wonder question. When I read the scene in SN where Kim dropped Liam off at Phil and Lina’s and Phil said Lina’s meeting wasn’t as important as his and she told him she had people depending on her, etc….I wished he could possibly be near Dolmar’s main office, possibly visiting a client and decided to drop by and see if Lina could have lunch with him. This would be the first time he has seen her office and working environment. Phil goes into the lush lobby of the building greeted by a receptionist. Phil says he there to see Lina. Receptionist ask if he has an appointment and he says no I’m her husband and was in the area. She calls Lina’s assistant who says send him up. The receptionist says Ms. Hunter is on the executive floor, you’ll need to take the elevator to the 5th floor. Lina’s assistant meets Phil and introduces herself, taking Phil to Lina’s office while explaining Lina’s in a meeting and shouldn’t be to long. He takes note of her office how her style is represented in every square inch of the space. Phil hears Lina’s voice as she walks down the hall with several suits flanking her on both sides and thinking how absolutely beautiful she is, dressed in a white sleeveless wrap dress with peep toe wedges and gold jewelry to accent. She shakes hands with the gentlemen as they are leaving and starts to walk toward her office noticing Phil in the doorway. Lina immediately smiles and walks in his direction wondering what he is doIng there, but pleasantly surprised that he is. Phil leans in to give her a soft kiss. Phil says I was in the area and I want take my wife to lunch. Lina’s assistant walks in telling Lina that her 1:00 has been rescheduled for 1:30, and their construction foreman for several of their jobs will be in at 3:00 for her to go over the design changes. Also, the fabric samples she ordered should be delivered today as well. NOW would all of that impress Phil? He knows how talented Lina is, but would that increase his awareness of just how important her job is to her and Dolmar?

    • Awesome Tracie! I can so picture that scene. And yes, I think that would impress Phil. He’d see a whole new dimension.

      • Thanks Laura I could too! Phil would definitely see her in a different light. He is use to seeing her in a domestic setting, but as a high profile interior designer I think he would be like WOW! The men in my wish would of looked at Lina with interest and Phil would of noticed LOL….

    • Wow Tracie,
      What a nice wonder scene. Yes, I think it will make Phil a more/better supportive spouse as he has only seen Lina manage their home/life. He will cut Lina some/more slack when it comes to putting in long hours and traveling. I think it would also be so awesome if Lina can take Phil to work related functions like holiday parties where Lina gets to shine. I will love it too if she is surrounded by sexy wealthy men who show their interest. Remember at the end of SN, Lina’s work was about to featured in a national magazine. With Lina becoming more prominent and visible, Phil will be reminded of how desirable Lina is and be more appreciative of how she maintains their home and of the fact that she put her family first for so long. NOW, IT’S LINA’S TIME ??!!!

      • Ohhh Holley I thought about her taking him to work related functions too! Him watching Lina, William and Damon work the room like him and Wayne. I know he would be so proud of her, but also watching all the wolves checking out his woman…Oh yeah!

    • Tracie I love that scene!! And I agree with Holley, it wouldn’t hurt if her work meetings are often with very sexy and sophisticated men, much to Phil’s dismay – a jealous Phil is the sexiest and yummiest Phil of all! haha

    • I would LOVE to see Phil get slightly jealous / possessive over Lina.

      I can see Phil walking into the building and see a hot stud giving Lina a kiss on the hand “goodbye” and saying ” i look forward to working closely with you”.

    • I wanted to slap Phil when he expected her to drop her work meeting to look after Liam. I would have said ” you and Kim are responsible for him and need to make arrangements. I’m off to work. Bye”

  32. Hi ladies, hope everyone had a great weekend 🙂

    I have a question…going back to when Kim and Phil took the positive pregnancy test..if at that time Kim believed Phil when he said that he absolutely would not leave Lina, and she realized that her pregnancy plan wasn’t going to work to win her Phil, do you think she would’ve chosen to abort the baby? I don’t think she would’ve wanted to be a single mother, knowing that Phil would stay with Lina and she’d have to go through it all alone…what do you girls think?

    • I think Kim would have had the baby nonthless ..because she confessed to Phill that she loved him…and I think even though she believed that he won’t leave Lina she would still try to get him because of her always winning spirit I guess..

      • She would of kept the baby Miri. She was so high on herself she wouldn’t have admitted defeat. Think about the scene where Phil told her she was an “easy fuck”, she still didn’t believe him.

    • So hard to tell because she thought she would be able to get Phil back for almost 2 years after he dumped her skanky ass. I bet she flushed her contraceptive pills down the toilet after their first night together, when Phil told her “this is just sex, there will never be anything more between us. I love my wife and i will never leave her”

      I highly doubt she will ever have anymore kids. She will probably be a trophy wife to some old judge.

    • The baby was the plan to catch him, I don’t think she really believed he wouldn’t leave Lina. It seems to me, in her narcissistic mind, she thought she’d already caught him with sex, she’d keep him with a baby. Oops, that wasn’t working, let’s make everyone’s life miserable and see if that works—not likely…

    • I think she figured if Phil didn’t leave Lina, Lina would kick him out either at the news of the pregnancy or later when she realized she couldn’t handle Phil having a love child. So, no, she wouldn’t abort. She was sure she would get him eventually.

    • I think that if Kim could have looked into the future and seen exactly how things would turn out (that Phil and Lina would stay together, raise her child together, and she would be completely out of the picture), I think she wouldn’t have kept the baby. She wouldn’t have gone through a pregnancy all alone and raised a new-born all alone if she knew how things were going to turn out. But I agree with Katie, even if she genuinely believed that Phil wouldn’t leave Lina for her and the baby, she probably thought the choice wouldn’t really be up to Phil..as Katie said “she figured if Phil didn’t leave Lina, Lina would kick him out either at the news of the pregnancy or later when she realized she couldn’t handle Phil having a love child.” She would never in a million years would’ve predicted that things would turn out the way they did.

      • I think that after all the dust settled and she finally(!!) realized that Phil would never be hers, she did come to regret having Liam. I think that in her mind, she went through all that (pregnancy and taking care of a newborn all alone with no support except for a part-time nanny) with nothing to show for it in the end (having Phil for her own)..it’s not like she wanted a baby for her own sake, I’m sure she knew herself well enough to know that being a parent wasn’t a priority for her. The baby was only a means to an end…As sad as it is to imagine, I think that she did come to regret having Liam.

        Laura, you know Kim better than the rest of us, what do you think?

        • I agree with Katie – Kim assumed Lina would kick Phil out. I don’t think she regrets having Liam. She isn’t the type of person that looks back. She just goes forward. When he’s a teenager and doesn’t need constant attention she will prob be curious about him and maybe get to know him a little

          • She’s worthless…I hope he treats her like that long lost aunt we talked about. Reserved and not overly friendly.

    • I have a question that has been bothering me about the surprise pregnancy. Phil has been with one woman for years and has two daughters. He is having sex multiple times a day and does not notice Kim has not had a period for 3 months. How could he not know she is pregnant, or have been suspicious?

      • Wow — great question.
        When I was pregnant I had a light period until the second trimester — I guess Kim was the same. 🙂

  33. Good Morning to both Harvard and Yale Debate Teams…So glad I missed the buffet, it seemed to be a little cold….LOL….Love Burger Bar and Charlottes Web…You know how much I love you girls? Bunches!

    I was in OKC yesterday with my daughter and granddaughter shopping for her birthday. It was hot! Heat Index 109…It was miserable and we were at the outlet mall so a lot of walking! But I did have a few good margaritas at Ted’s after the sauna shop-a-thon! I’m sure that helped with my dehydration..I have a mild wonder question I’ll post later…Have a good one girls…

  34. Ok I’m going to read my daughter’s copy of Charlotte’s Web tonight so we can discuss the real meaning behind “the web” tomorrow.

  35. Hi Ladies,
    I’m sorry for being late to the party, but I only got to chapter 7 last night…so far there isn’t any cheating, he just went to that girl’s bar twice, where they spoke to each other in a way that didn’t suggest he was married at all…so far from what I can tell, he and his wife have a very good solid marriage…they’re partners, they respect each other, they trust each other, they care deeply about each other, and love one another, they have a shared history, they’re a team – if I didn’t know already that this was a cheating book I wouldn’t think their marriage is headed for any trouble…the only thing that’s wrong so far is that this guy keeps going back to the same bar where he keeps flirting with this girl, and intends to continue going there…how disheartening..he’s not even fleeing a horrible situation at home or anything, it’s just a total random meeting with a pretty young woman and he’s going to throw away a 15 (?) year marriage away like it’s nothing…throughout his lifetime he’s going to meet many pretty young things and feel an attraction and maybe even a connection to many of them, that’s just what happens when you’re out and about..is he going to leave whoever he’s with each time that happens? As for the OW, she appears to respect his marital status just as little as he does..
    they’re both (“H” and OW) showing way too much interest and delight in one another for someone who’s married…Meh, like I said, very disheartening…will continue reading it and checking up on your comments ladies 🙂

    • and Holley, to answer your comment below, the wife is just lovely…she feel guilt for not being able to give her husband a child and so she runs herself ragged trying to be the perfect governor’s wife, as she had promised him she would when they got married..she’s warm, caring, and very attentive to her husband..you might wanna skip this book because she’s not an evil witch at all 🙁

      • Hi Miri,
        Thank you and I will skip this book for sure. I dont think I am open minded to appreciate the story the author is telling. Also, I think we sometimes bring our personal experiences into how we accept and view a story. I am 45 and been married for 20, been with my husband for almost 23 years so this happily ever after for a cheating H and OW is outside of what I can comprehend. I will always identify with the wife, you know. Even if I found myself single again I hope I will always bring a degree of bias towards OW unless of course wife is awful.

        • Completely understandable Holley. I’m 35…been with my husband 15 years (married 10). I do try to look past my personal experiences to understand the story the author is telling, but that can be hard. It would be devastating to be this OW.

        • Hi Holley. Thanks for your perspective. You are right- Maybe I’m not as open minded as I think I am.

          I’m only a tough cookie with my husband. Otherwise, I’m meek as a lamb!?

        • You’re welcome Holley! I agree, our perception of the story and characters is colored by our experiences…and as the great, venerable Beyoncé has said, “ashes to ashes, dust to side chicks” ?

  36. I wanted to keep my big mouth shut but this is really bugging me. I’m sorry.

    Are you telling me that this guy is running for the White House? And the bartender has a shot at being the future First Lady? And no one finds this plot a bit salacious? What will be her cause? What will she talk about with the leaders of other countries? What her secret ingredient is to a dirty martini? Just NO. I completely bought the lust but not true love that will span their lifetime. Unlike Tara, I don’t care about redemption or even forgiveness in a cheating novel. But I do want justice and I do want to understand. Of course love isn’t black and white but please do not put a pregnant mistress after a few months of cheating thus making the wife look even more downtrodden. And please don’t have him running for the highest office in the nation. These are choices that the author made that could have easily been avoided and created needless angst in the book. Like Tara said, the book wasn’t that deep for us to pick it apart. It was about 2 selfish people who went into the affair with their eyes wide open and chose to stay together. That is all I remember.

    • Perhaps it’s a dig at our society that a bartender/former mistress could be the First Lady…perhaps it’s just fantasy that a nobody could catch the eye of such a powerful man.
      It is fiction, of course.

      • Of course they catch the eyes of powerful men. It’s realistic. I see it around me all the time. But why have him run for the White House and why have a playroom? Totally gratuitous.

        • Just to piss people off. To show that it doesn’t matter that he cheated on his HS sweetheart and left her for a younger woman not “suitable” for the role- no consequences. Another dig at our society, because this actually happens- men in power positions do and say unethical things, but continue to scale the ranks. In fact, the worse you are, the more success you have.
          Now the playroom. That’s a whole different thing. I think he was sexually repressed and found his equal. Sexual repression is never a good thing. His dad is a pastor, he was expected to be a certain way. You can’t have that level of repression without it leaking out somewhere. Another dig at religion.
          What else you got for me?

          • Katie-Why is he sexually repressed? He married young so I don’t think he was sexually repressed. I think they totally had kinky sex at age 17-18. Maybe he developed a fetish when the wife didn’t want to play anymore. Who knows but I found that tidbit gratuitous. Just have them fall in love and damn the consequences. But details like that made me not like the couple. Then he aspires to be in the White House with his 24 year old? No thank you! That grated on my nerve. Dude, just be happy that you found second chance at love. Don’t push the envelope. Again, totally annoying.

          • Not trying to grate on your nerves further, but they both said it. He said his wife didn’t share his appetites, and the wife said she wasn’t adventurous.

          • Katie, you read so much more into this story than I did. I read a superficial story about 2 selfish people. You read an amazing story with commentary about religion and society.

            I’m hoping you’re right and that was the author’s point, but I’m very doubtful. ?

          • Well you’re welcome then! You just read a much better book than you realized. ?

    • Janet I haven’t gotten very far in the book, but I’m hoping that at the very least his political career will be over due to the cheating scandal? Many political careers have ended due to cheating scandals…I very much agree, if I’m not going to get a HEA for the h (in my opinion the h in this book is the wife, not the OW) then at least give me justice.

      • My consolation is this – their marriage won’t last forever…at some point the lust will diminish, the stress of parenting and cold in-laws and being in the public eye under scrutiny will take it’s toll, he’s 37 and she’s 24 so in time they will learn they don’t have a lot in common after all, they will grow apart…yeah, sorry not sorry, but I hope they both go on to lead miserable lives, separately…I’m so blah’d out I’m not sure I’m even gonna finish the book…I don’t expect the 2 assholes to grow in any way or redeem themselves, so what’s the point (since I already know the ending)…anyway sorry for my sourness..the next book I read has to have a “H” and “h” that I can actually not loathe (I’m using quotation marks because they’re in no way legitimate H/h, to me…)

        • Again, sorry for my sour mood today…Thanks for the recommendation Katie, I’m usually a lot more up for reading cheating books…I don’t mean to rain on your parade 🙁

          • No it’s awesome. You can’t offend me. Don’t worry about that. I love the thought-provocation and discussion.

        • Miri, me either. Here, I don’t buy the true love conquers all. I think real life will come between them and it’ll be harsh. Whether they survive it or not- I don’t care. I just don’t want him running for office.

          • Love ya Katie 🙂

            Janet – “I think real life will come between them and it’ll be harsh. Whether they survive it or not- I don’t care.” …100% Janet!! In his new marriage, once the honeymoon phase is over, he’s till going to be a selfish prick capable of disloyalty, deceit, major selfishness and attentiveness only to his own needs and desires…hopefully the American public will be nauseated by his weak will and easy dishonesty and won’t vote him into any office ever again

      • But how many political careers haven’t ended because of a cheating scandal? The difference in this book is that he actually loves the OW and leaves his wife for her- probably the most unrealistic aspect of the political component of this story. Most politicians stick with the wife to protect their careers.

        • True Katie so maybe in that sense it’s a romance novel. That part seems far fetched. I just can’t see a 24 year old as a leader of this country. In this case age isn’t just a number. She has no experience other than college or bar tending. If they lived on a farm I can see a HEA. In DC, people will crucify her. Maybe he will step down and they can open a bar one day and have the love burger special. They could have a good life.

          • I hope they get run out of town Janet, I hope they’re hounded so bad they hafta change their names and faces and disappear somewhere in South America …I’m bitter too katie lol

          • Katie I’m only bitter that you found Nick creepy!
            With this couple, I am fine if the guys doesn’t end up as the president. I won’t begrudge them their happiness so they better just stay put in CO.

          • I can’t see her in the White House or the governors mansion – not the way she described her. Of course this country doesn’t care about the moral fiber of its leaders. I was actually surprised he would be attracted to her with his background. That part was a bit far fetched.

          • Okay, Ladies, let’s give it a break, the whole book was a fantasy, between no one noticing the governor sitting at the bar, to the wife cooking meals for them and telling him there are leftovers in the fridge and telling him to pick up his tux at the cleaners, please?!?! To the whole BDSM fantasy and their “playroom”!?!?

            They were about as deep as a puddle.

          • Laura, wait…how is this different than Casey and Tony? That was similar as far as her suitability as a Senator’s wife, yet she was smart and lovely and charitable.
            Blaine went to college, owned a home, took care of her dad. Her charity could be something related to heart disease.

          • Janet I still have a beef with this couple ? lol
            I hope he loses all his hair and develops a paunch. And I hope she has quintuplets and can’t take off the baby weight. Ha.

          • Not that part Miri- of course she wouldn’t. Laura said she was surprised Michael was attracted to Blaine. But their social differences were similar to Casey and Tony…

          • Holy moly! This couple doesn’t belong in the White House! Of course we would have to hear about his policies, watch him debate, and hear his stance on things but once the public reads an article that puts him in a bad light people will judge him. People get off on judging others. Women are petty. 24 year old women will be jealous of the new wife, the ladies of my generation will condemn her and I think this couple can become a laughingstock. And 100 percent somebody will leak the play room story. Also, Casey cannot be in the Oval Office yet. Tony can set his sights for the White House but he also has a clean record and he’s not in a rush. I can totally see Casey there 10 yrs later but not now.

          • I’m calling foul, Katie! No way is she anything like Katie. They have completely different backgrounds. Look at Blaire’s last boyfriend. I could see Casey growing in sophistication. Not so much Blaire

          • Miri, I’m all for this dude losing all his hair. Let’s just give them a vineyard in a remote area or have them open a bar in CO. I just don’t wanna hear about him running for president.

          • Blaine owned a home? Why does that even matter? Well the press will turn that around and make her seem as a home wrecker! Anyway her age is a big issue for me. Did you not see Ivanka being snubbed at the g20 summit? And this girl is no Ivanka.

          • Now now Laura. Lets not judge Blaine for her humble beginnings. You know Casey is my girl, and yes, she grew up in a higher class. But she’s still not seen as good enough for Tony by others (her age, status, “costume jewelry,” etc.). Blaine isn’t all that different in this context.

        • Posted in wrong place. This isn’t about the affair. Of course Casey wouldn’t get involved with a married man. I don’t see Blaire and Casey as that far apart as far as being attractive to successful, powerful men. Because you said you thought M’s attraction to B seemed far fetched. Only as far fetched as Tony going for Casey.

          • Katie, did Blaire or Blaine have a goal in life? Why was she bartending? Was she putting herself through school or helping out a sick parent? Casey has goals. She has a future.l with or without Tony. The only similarity these two girls share is their age. I thought blaire was more of a bohemian. Anyway, no 24 year old has EARNED the position of the First Lady.

          • Blaine wasn’t trash. Her mom died when she was 20. She finished school. Bought a house with her inheritance. She was working while she figured out her next move. That’s reasonable. I was in no way comparing Blaine’s integrity to Casey’s. I was just saying they are similar to me, in general. Young, open-hearted, a little free-spirited, and, to me, both seen as not good enough to be politicians’ wives, yet they attracted those men. That’s all.

          • Katie, I’m ok with this couple being in love. It’s what they chose and if they want to face the backlash together then so be it. My “beef” is she doesn’t deserve the title of a First Lady. Not when she’s still trying to figure out her life. To me, she’s still a girl without much life experiences. That’s it. I think we are going back and forth on two different issues. ?

    • Janet,
      You are one tough cookie???. I hear what you are saying. I have not read the book nothing I can offer there.

  37. Heartless—I finished it in the wee hours of the morning.

    My first thought, it’s filled with tropes…
    1. Cheating
    2. Older man/younger woman
    3. Politician
    4. BDSM

    It’s well written and you definitely feel they’re falling in love. But, they’re so selfish, and that puts a damper on the whole story. The main characters are somewhat likable, but the cheating tones that down.

    For me the wife and her sub plot (her inability to have children and unwillingness to communicate push her to be the perfect politician’s wife) feels like a forced conflict. She’s a throw away character, once he’s in love with the OW, he ceases to care, he has no real guilt until well after the truth comes out, but not enough to fix his marriage, and you don’t want him to fix it, his wife deserves better. Their HEA feels ugly. I hated the epilogue, I didn’t care enough about the two characters to feel invested in their HEA. A much better epilogue would have been showing the wife finding a HEA, I couldn’t care less about his, and please do we really need to know the details of the governor’s playroom?

    Normally, I follow the story where the author takes me, it works or it doesn’t. I think the author told the wrong story—rarely do I feel this way. If he weren’t married, if he was a bachelor governor, and they met at the bar with him ordering the burger and her talking him out of it. They date in secret, they fall in love, the conflict could easily have been the stress of his political career and maybe their age difference. I would have happily bought into their story, with or without the playroom.

    Janet, this review may end up on Goodreads ?

    • Thank you for the review Tara. I think I am going to pass on this one. Unless the wife is an evil witch, it is hard for me to be happy for the other OW.

      • Holley, she’s not an evil witch. The husband travels a slippery slope, takes full responsibility when his marriage falls apart and doesn’t want anyone to blame the OW. There’s a great confrontation scene between the husband and his sister, where she points out the OW is just as wrong as she should have known better and “chose” to be in the relationship. Both wrong.

        I’m surprised no one mentioned the christian overtones near the end of the book… “Even in the darkness, God is here. He sees me. He knows me. He forgives me. And, He convicts me….God loves me anyway, it crushes me—it breaks me to know that I a man so undeserving am the recipient of such grace.” Even though his father is a minister and this felt completely out of field. As much as I agree with this, it feels like a justification, a get out of jail free card. ‘I’m basically a good man God loves and forgives me, I’m good to go.’

        • Yes yes. That’s what I mean. That was the authors tone. He sins and then justifies it this way. That rat. Ok I’m not talking anymore about this one. The book made me depressed and the HEA was not deserved. They all needed to go their separate ways. To bring in pregnancy at the end was just too much. So the OW was not biracial? Omg

          • There’s no real guilt, 88% in we get his guilty conscience kicking in for about 5 pages, big whoops. I’m a big believer in forgiveness, but there’s a difference between forgivenesses and redemption. There’s no redemption in this book, neither earned redemption.

            I wanted them to crawl off have their little family and see the wife move on to something bigger and better. Instead of them heading to the White House, it should have been the wife and whoever she moved on with.

            And, no the OW wasn’t bi-racial. ?

        • A while back many of us read the book ‘The Desperate Wife’ by Caroline Roberts…at one point the cheating husband is talking to his father, who is very angry at him for having left his wife and kids for his mistress…he says to his dad something like, “I wasn’t happy (with the wife)”, and his dad says to him, “son, what makes you think you have the G-d given right to be happy all the time?”…I really liked that exchange…so true…all of these cheating asshole husbands are like spoiled little children, looking to be amused and entertained and paid lots of attention to, coddled and cooed over, always made to feel virile/sexy/handsome/blah blah blah..what they really should be doing is trying to grow up

    • Tara. A great review. That forced conflict was spot on. I call it manufactured angst. I read some reviews last night and most are 5 stars so your 2 star is needed probably. Again, if this was politicians bio I wouldn’t mind watching or even reading. But I can’t root for this couple even if they followed their heart. Did the OW’s personality bug you? I disliked her from the moment the guy sat down at the bar and I couldn’t change my mind.

      • I didn’t hate the OW’s personality, I think she was weak. I do give her credit for dumping the BF after the kiss. I don’t think she was manipulative or duplicitous, but weak.

        • Ok I didn’t really see her weak. Just selfish and immature. I think that’s what bothered me. Her immaturity. Can’t believe you pulled an all nighter. I hope you read something happy this weekend.

    • Okay – as a writer, I don’t agree with the forced conflict comment. You write what you write. It’s what comes to you. Some stories follow a formula – this one didn’t. That’s what I appreciated about it. I thought through the first half that he would end up with his wife. That’s what the reader would want but the writer stayed true too herself. When I write WPF I was writing it for myself. The H in this story was a hypocrite and felt very authentic to me. Most romance novels don’t hold my attention because they are so unbelievable. This was a hard to swallow romance, because the wife was crushed. The OW was young and star struck. I wanted him to choose his wife because that was the right thing to do – he thought of himself as religious which was a joke. This story was about a heartless man and it came with warnings. I don’t think it’s fair to give it a low star rating. Just my two cents

      • My problem is I don’t think the author wants us to see him as heartless, the story isn’t dark enough for that. If she wanted us to see him as heartless, she wouldn’t have included any guilt or the whole God forgives me scene.

        Yes, she wrote her story and followed through with it. It came across to me as the author wanting a taboo story with flawed but likable characters, and that falls flat, they’re only likable on a superficial level, for me this makes it a fail. I’d give it 3 stars, and that’s because she writes well, not because of the story she told.

        • I don’t know if that’s true or not. People aren’t black and white. You fall in love with your leading characters (at least I do). Having an affair doesn’t mean you are all bad, but fiction seems to appreciate absolutes. My editor wanted me to make Nick creepy. She said he was too likable and you want to manipulate who the readers like. And he was so good people would want Lina to end up with him. And of course that happened. In my mind making him a villain was too convenient

          • I appreciate when something isn’t black and white. I appreciate an author telling their story, and in most cases I have no problem being led to the end. This just didn’t work for me, it felt like the author wanted it both ways… “…two flawed humans—who fall in love under forbidden circumstances.” She’s just telling the story, but I still feel like she wants the reader to like them, but I didn’t.

            I like Nick, I don’t think you needed another villain in WPF, Lina needed a friend. Though my perception of him changes when we see how Phil views him, right or wrong, Phil’s thoughts color my perceptions.

        • Ok, from what I remember I think the author wanted us to see two normal, flawed characters who fall in love against all odds. But the odds they chose and created. Bottom line, this read like a Hollywood scandal to me. And the guys kinks will be ousted by a cleaner in the next tabloid papers. It’s riddled with betrayal, lust, sex and power. So it’s fine if this was a Sidney Sheldon novel but I don’t want this categorized under romance.

    • Wow, you read that fast, Tara.
      I was hesitant to mention this book here because it was 20/80 that everyone would hate it and give it low reviews, which always bums me out for authors (especially ones who write well).

      The book wasn’t about the wife. That’s the whole point. The affair wasn’t about the wife. It’s about two people falling in love under forbidden circumstances, consequences be damned. It’s a “what would you do for love?” story- devastate your barren wife of 20 years? Damn, that’s heartless! Making the epilogue about the wife wouldn’t have made sense- it wasn’t about her. But the epilogue did reveal that she found someone, and that’s great. I was happy for him that he got a second chance to have children.

      Was he a lying, cheating, selfish, immoral, heartless asshole? Of course! Nothing excuses that fact.

      He wasn’t a bad guy on the whole though, and neither was she. He did suffer consequences. He lost the respect of most of his family…
      This was a different take on the cheating theme. Many times the OW gets discarded, and this was a story where she wasn’t. Take out the infidelity, and this was a sweet love story. The book was meant to be conflicting, and I thought it was well done.

      • Katie, I see your point, but your also making my point. It would have been a sweet story without the wife, the wife is completely superfluous to the story. That’s why it feels forced. I get that’s not the story she wanted to tell. It’s well written, it doesn’t mean the reader has to like what was written.

        And, honestly I get the epilogue, but even though the wife is superfluous to the story, she deserved better, two years later she’s finally moving on and he’s “genuinely” happy to hear that, big of him.

        Do you honestly think he suffered consequences, he has his HEA with his family, including his sister around him, a new baby on the way and plans to run for president. His family, the state of Colorado and now the entire country will get to embrace this amazing man.

        • I don’t think he suffered enough. No way. But it’s not my story. I thought about the poor wife for a couple of days

        • The biggest consequences are those we suffer internally (conscience, guilt). If you’re not heartless, that is.
          You’re right, he probably didn’t suffer enough. But that’s pretty realistic.

          • Exactly, he didn’t suffer enough, and it probably was realistic and he doesn’t need to feel guilty with God’s forgiveness, he was good to move on.

            I’m done.

            Katie, I know you wanted me to like it, sorry?

          • If I had to guess, the religious stuff was woven in there to show how people manipulate God’s forgiveness to justify themselves. Realistic.

          • Katie, you might be right, maybe I’m not giving the author enough credit. The story didn’t feel that deep to me.

  38. No one is going to agree with me about Heartless, and that’s ok. It’s interesting discussion.

    Laura and Miri, I could have both of you married off so fast.

      • What if you meet Phil in real life though Laura? Ugh I would never remarry. Not even for Nick. I just want a girlfriend who I can travel with and I am a happy camper. Men are so overrated. Ha

        I read this book few years back so I can’t remember clearly but I think it was her tone. It was a long book for me.

      • LOL I agree with you Laura…If anything was to happen to Tom, me and my girls are building a triplex with a center courtyard and living the good life…

    • Heartless main characters (H and OW) are really heartless …the hero deserves to have a heartbreak as bad as his wife had
      Thankyou for naming the book katie

    • Lol I’m down Katie..I think my optimism is due to never having been married before…I’m sure if I had I’d be like nah, I’m good hehe

      • Me too I’m 24 unmarried..and don’t even want to marry..i just want to travel the world..like Janet said men are over rated..

  39. Laura and I just read a good book for discussion- Heartless by RC Martin. It’s very much about finding love outside of a marriage- told from H and OW (h) perspectives. You’ll probably hate the guy, but it would be fun to dissect. If you can stomach it…

    • Katie, this is the book I commented on couple days ago! The waitress is half black half white and the guy ends up with the mistress. I hated it. But they fell in love so that’s life. The OW annoyed the crap out of me and because I was set on hating her from the getgo I just never warmed up to her.

      • I don’t think she was half white half black. She was a bartender and he a politician. I liked her. I actually liked him too, and the wife. It was an interesting read.

        • Ok. Who cares if she’s biracial but wasn’t she already living with a bf? I just remember that rat ordering a burger and he kept coming back. I could see you liking all three and I can see myself not liking either. She’s a very good writer but that melancholy tone of the whole book irked me. I kinda wanted all three to go their separate ways. If anyone reads it please share your thoughts.

          • Lol I just started thinking I was crazy that I missed her being biracial. I’m entirely too forgiving, I admit that.

    • Katie I can’t hardly stomach it, if he ends up with the OW, unless the wife is an absolute shrew! Is she?

      • No. The wife is portrayed as a nice woman who can’t conceive after being with the husband for 20 years so their life is sort of stuck and she does a lot of charity work. The husband is normal and so is the OW. You know what hogwash. You don’t get to have an affair bc both of you are attracted to each other. I’m like is this a romance novel or a non fiction book? And the sex scenes are graphic and there’s a lot of sex. Arghh.

        • Then I’m probably gonna hate the H and the OW..I’ll read it and get to frothing at the mouth and come on here to vent LOL

          • but I’m gonna be reading it all dejected because I know there won’t be a reconciliation/HEA (the OW and H don’t count for a happy ending, they don’t deserve it!)

          • Hi Katie I’m replying to your comment below…

            “He set her free to find someone who appreciates her and where she isn’t just “the governor’s wife.”

            I know I haven’t read the book yet, and I will, but I just wanna say this, because it irks me so much…although I love the optimism and positivity in what you said, I have found by observing family members and friends of family, etc, that a middle aged woman looking for a new relationship with a man has a much much harder time finding it than a man her age does (looking for a new woman/relationship)…there are far more single women available than there are single men at this age (or maybe it’s just in Toronto), and whereas middle aged men are open to dating younger, middle aged women often don’t have that option (of younger men wanting to date older)…so these now-single middle aged women are not just “competing” against women similar in age/circumstances to themselves, they are also “competing” with the younger women open to dating older…so in her younger years, while she had a better chance of attracting a mate, she spent those years with this idiot who left her for another woman (in this book), and now her reality might not be so much fun and games and a new love as much as maybe some very lonely years ahead of her…again, just based on the harsh reality I’ve witnessed…I loved how in WPF, Lina suddenly had all these options of new guys to date, but from what I’ve seen it often doesn’t work out that way…that’s why I figure a reconciliation HEA with the rat bastard is better than him leaving her for the OW, because after having lived with a husband for so many years, the transition to living alone isn’t easy for many women 🙁 In the movies it’s fabulous and fun and all about growing and having fun and having flings..but I’ve never seen that happen even once in real life 🙁 HE moves on and gets someone to take care of him again and she looks for ways to fill the void that she wasn’t prepared to encounter at that age…makes me really mad 🙁

          • Well said, Miri. And that is often the case, but I have seen many older (above 40) women find men. I have a couple of sisters who are really good at it ?

          • Laura I like hearing that 🙂 There should be a universal law that says that the cheated-on must always gets a HEA! (the cheaters can fend for themselves lol)

          • I appreciate you Miri. No hard feelings. This woman is 37 and beautiful- hardly middle-aged and undesirable. If I found myself unexpectedly alone later in life, I’d definitely slut it up. And, there’s absolutely nothing wrong staying single, either.

          • LOL that’s a good point. She’s only 37. Miri is describing someone 15 years older — like me! But again, I have witnessed women over 50 falling in love. If you’re open to it, it happens.

          • Miri LOL. Read and then come back and we can gang up on Katie. She can handle herself. This book wasn’t about fairness so I didn’t look for that. I just didn’t like the authors writing style so I’m curious what you and Tara have to say about her. I knew going in the heroine was the OW so I wanted to like her but I just couldn’t. Bleh.

          • Ok I totally put my foot in my mouth (is that the saying??).. I should definitely read the book before commenting lol! Gonna read it tonight and THEN comment haha

          • What you said is valid, Miri. But do you think women have a harder time moving on because of self-esteem and bitterness versus availability of men? And there’s always someone around to slut it up with, no matter the age! I should start a new dating site.

          • Katie I think in my case it would be because I’m selfish…You pour so much of yourself into a relationship and if it doesn’t work out or your cheated on, you are just tired and don’t want to put up with no more shit!

          • Katie I see what you mean about women sometimes holding onto anger and resentment…I think that is the case with some women, but I also think a lot of it, maybe much of it, is really due to the ratio of (single) women to men…from what I’ve seen, no woman in her right mind lets a halfway decent husband go lol, so many good men remain married and out of the dating pool by middle age…the men that are available are often interested in dating younger women…I have not seen too many men in middle age or older who are truly mature and looking for a genuine counterpart..not even exaggerating here, I have spoken to men in their 70’s and 60’s, when I’m out and about, who legit want to date a woman in her 30’s (or 40’s at the absolute oldest)…like, I’m wanting to play matchmaker for some lovely older ladies I know in my building (also in their 70’s or 60’s) and I get told by these idiot men that they think they’d do well with a woman in her 30’s…for what?! To change his diapers?! Grow up loser! I know it’s so cliched, but I see it all the time 🙁
            This one woman I know and absolutely adore in my building, in her 70’s, a widow, and with the biggest lust for life (she still goes out dancing with the girls most Saturday nights) has said to me, as we get older, it’s our relationships with other women that we end up enjoying the most, because even if you still have a man at home, he’s most likely too worn out by life or too damn lazy to go out anymore..but your girlfriends still have life in them and don’t wanna sit at home! They’re up for a good old time! lol

          • Very well said Miri…Me and my girls even go to the American Legion to play bingo sometimes. Since we are the youngest in the room some of the older ladies are telling us to be quiet and shacking their damn dobbers at us. It is funny and if we win, that really gets them to cussing since we aren’t regulars! I got the last piece of “Jennie’s Cake”. Don’t even know who Jennie is, that’s just what it said on the menu and an old lady told me I should respect my elders and not take the last piece. How was I suppose to know it was the last piece? But it is fun to hang with my girls…Lol

          • Tracie hanging out with you sounds like a blast!…See? Girls just wanna have fun! lol

      • I liked the wife. There were some big issues in their marriage, but in the end he cheated because he’s a selfish asshole and chose his own happiness over his family’s. I liked him though.

        • I was depressed after reading this. It was not a feel good book and I would have liked it if this was a non fiction biography on a person. I just felt bad for the wife. How can she not be bitter given the ending?

          • I don’t think I can read it then…I like HEA’s, I’m just a sucker that way….

          • Yes it was devastating- she can’t have children and her husband shacks up with a young fertile woman.
            But I refuse to accept that women are victims. There were enough examples of why they weren’t the best match for each other. Maybe they once were but…. He set her free to find someone who appreciates her and where she isn’t just “the governor’s wife.”

          • Amen sister, but I don’t know if his ex wife would recover. It would be awful, especially considering he’s a public figure

          • Tracie you and I can watch it on The Lifetime channel. If anything Tara may like the book. It’s well written.

          • Janet, I’m vacillating about reading it. I love a HEA, but not all cheating books warrant it. I’ll probably order it, and be frustrated—lol.

          • This is the book you asked for Tara. A likable OW. What I liked about this book is how authentic some of the interactions felt. Besides the Hollywood aspects (rich governor), the scene felt realistic. The sex scenes I mostly just skimmed – there were too many for me. I liked seeing how the H was with his wife. He was loving to her all the way until he wasn’t. Interesting. And his families reaction seemed spot on. I really felt bad for the wife. He hurt so many people getting to his HEA.

          • Tara, I think you will agree with Katie.

            Katie, the wife is nobody’s victim and I have no doubt she will find her own happiness. And yes their marriage was stale. But was the ending necessary? No. It was like rubbing salt to her wound.

          • Okay I don’t think I can read it after Janet’s last comment. Kbabe that Looking through Rose Colored Glasses Book, damn near made me bust a vessel I was so frustrated and pissed.

          • Well, ladies, I one-clicked it ?

            When I asked about a “likable “ OW, I was hopping for one with the husband and wife working it out.

          • Tracie it is nothing like rose colored glass. This book is too realistic for me. There’s no real culprit, no one where we can point our fingers to, and there’s no justice. It’s just life. So why do I care? I can just watch TMZ for this stuff. I hope the rat and his young love gets crucified by the press.

          • Okay Janet I’m taking your word for it. I just can’t read it with that much hurt.

  40. Laura! Where art thou?? We miss you!! hugs and kisses wherever you are 🙂

    Ladies, I came across something different, a cheating ‘interactive’ novel…’The Unforgiving Wife’ by Kenna Shaw reed…it’s called a ‘choose your own romance’ novel…I think at different points you get to choose how the story goes? I just started it last night…I’m pretty sure it’s on Kindle Unlimited…check it out! 🙂

    • I hope Laura isn’t working and is able to take a few days off from us crazies here. I think there was a big storm there. My husband’s flight to DC was diverted to Norfolk VA because of a storm last night. He said it’s the first time that’s ever happened to him so it must have been a big one.

      Miri, I go by JP on goodreads. I will befriend you but I have like 3 friends-Katie and Tara and don’t really review books. But I do follow a good group of people who read what I like so if anything you can see that. Oh and Nikki the other friend loves cheating romance novels. She would be a good one for you to follow.

    • Ugh — Hi everyone! Tough week! I had guests last weekend. I showed up to work Monday and immediately received a Stop Order on a major contract — needless to say it has been a hellish week. Things are calming down and I’m able to take a breath. It’s going to take me a while to read all these comments. I’ll be on vacation for a week starting Saturday, but I’ll have my computer and plan to write each morning. I missed everyone!

      • We thought you were on vacation. Are you going somewhere good?

        I don’t like having guests even if I love them. The amount of towels I need to wash daily puts me in a bad mood. I hope you didn’t have to cook in this weather. yuck.

        • LOL — I ate and drank too much! Nothing exciting for vacation — just the extended-family trip to the shore. You know I love the beach. Maybe I’ll see Nick.

        • Missed you much Laura. sorry on the stop work….I had that happen on a project I was working on not to long ago, said it was the wrong color of money….Lol

      • Laura, I’m relieved it was work issues and not family problems, we’ve missed you over the last few days!

  41. Okay girls if you could have two extended scenes in SN, which ones would they be? Mine would be the church and court scenes. Phil would have shown Lina pure love and adoration after each of her last comments in those two scenes. I would also want Phil to raise his head and not cover his eyes with his hand, so Lina couldn’t just hear the raw emotion, but see it as well. Hold his face in her hands and wipe his tears with her thumbs, as her own tears filled her eyes….Swoon!

    • Tracieeee!! This is the best question ever!!!
      For me, extended scene #1 would be in WPF, when Lina asks Phil if his baby was born yet, and he told her that he did not regret him (remember we had a whole discussion about it recently)…and extended scene #2 would be when they first met at his high school dance, and he told her he was gonna marry her one day..yowza!!

      • Janet! I tried to find you on Goodreads but couldn’t…thanks for the recommendation for Boston, I forgot to tell you! 🙂

        • you are welcome. I read reviews and the hotel turns into a big party stop on weekends so I’m not sure that’s a place for you. Could be fun. let us know if you run into any Phils there.

          • Janet, she and I would be happy to run into a couple of Phils! Lol…we’re two single ladies so while we aren’t looking for party central , we do want to stay somewhere close to some decent nightlife (mature, older crowd, not college kids lol)…

            So with that scene, I really wanted Lina to respond…what he said, although maybe it was necessary, was still so incredibly hurtful…to have your husband who not only cheated on you, who not only got another woman pregnant, but to tell you that he doesn’t regret this child, wow…I wish Lina had let him know just how much worse what he just said made everything for her, and that for the first time, she was seriously contemplating divorce as their only option, and that she would never forgive him for ruining their marriage and family…I know many won’t agree (Tracie I’m looking at you lol), but I wish she had really let him have it…he said “I know you still love me”, I wish she would have answered, yes, “I do, but after what you’ve done and just said to me, I am now open to loving someone else instead of you, someone who won’t devastate me and ruin my life like you did..you have your new baby to give you love and joy, so I’m going to find love and joy elsewhere also”…something along those lines…cruel, but after that “I don’t regret him” comment, in that moment, really, I would give up on him and our marriage and would let him know that…of course they’d still get their HEA because they’re Lina and Phil, but really, after what he said I wanted her to devastate him the way he did her…not mature or kind I know, but that’s how I imagine someone would feel in that moment

          • When I first read this scene I couldn’t believe he would say this when he was trying to get Lina back. I thought to myself this is classic selfish Phil talking -you don’t regret your son? Does this mean you don’t regret the affair since that’s how you got the son? How does he separate the son from his mother? Maybe Phil could have said he wanted to regret his baby but couldn’t after seeing him the first time. And ask Lina to forgive him. And maybe have a breakdown over the phone(I like OTT!). And yes I wanted Lina to say you will be hearing from my lawyers tomorrow. I’m having them draw up the divorce papers tonight.
            They could have reconciled during mediation or when they meet to sign the papers. Phil would have lost 20lbs and took up drinking as his second hobby. His fingers shake as he sees the forms in front of him, snaps the pen in half and swear he won’t let Lina go.

          • Janet I like it!! Exactly how I saw it playing out…like, to a T!!…

            “I wanted Lina to say you will be hearing from my lawyers tomorrow. I’m having them draw up the divorce papers tonight.
            They could have reconciled during mediation or when they meet to sign the papers. Phil would have lost 20lbs and took up drinking as his second hobby. His fingers shake as he sees the forms in front of him, snaps the pen in half and swear he won’t let Lina go.”

            Perfection Janet!!! I would’ve been quite satisfied with that…oooh wait!! How about if Lina had walked into mediation with a handsome new male friend for emotional support, and Phil lost his damn mind there and then, on top of looking horrible and having lost 20 lbs!! YESYESYES
            (Tracie please don’t be mad at us! LOL)

          • Miri and Janet,

            I didn’t read that scene the same way. He’d obviously regretted the affair, but couldn’t consider a child a regret—no matter what he felt about Kim and himself, Liam is an innocent victim to what they did, the consequences. He’d regret that Liam isn’t Lina’s. By regretting Liam, it would mean he considered Liam less than Megan, Katie and Logan.

            It’s such a sad scene, it’s emotional for both, and yes, it’s beyond hurtful for Lina.

          • Hi Tara! We actually dissected that scene in the last thread (I think it was the last thread?)…Laura said some really great things about that scene to give more perspective, as did the other ladies on here…you should definitely read through it! 🙂

          • Tara, you are right but that’s not how I felt reading it. what Phil said was authentic to his character but my scalp was tingling as I read that scene. I told you long time ago I can only accept a baby through the adoption process so I can’t relate here at all. Lina and I are totally different. If I had married someone with Phil’s personality our story would have been more like the movie War of the Roses.

          • Janet and Miri,
            I too wanted Lina to say more in that scene where Phil says he didn’t regret Liam, which no parent should do. I think we talked about this before but scene was tough for me. I wish Lina had said so much more than she did in that moment. I would have wanted them to later reconcile of course.

      • Hi Miri. I’m curious about your #1 extended scene. How would you change that conversation? I know Phil can’t ever say Liam was a mistake so I’m wondering what else he could have told Lina. That scene was really hard for me to read too.

          • Miri — what should Phil have said? Lina was clearly negative about his birth. What could Phil have said instead?

          • Hi Laura! I think at that point, after having told Lina in that covo that yes, the baby has been born, he looks like Logan, and yes he was born by the time we spent Christmas together, that was already more than enough info for Lina to process in that moment…she was already upset by all that…what he said about not regretting Liam, although it was important for him to say, that was adding insult to way too much injury already…possibly, he could have held that part in for the moment, and as time went on and they discussed how to integrate Liam, Phil could have made his point another way, by maybe saying he’d like the grandparents to meet their newest grandchild or for Liam’s siblings to meet him, etc…what Phil said wasn’t wrong, it was totally right..but in order for *me personally* to come to accept that fact, it would have had to have been done more gently, more gradually, and more with action than in blunt words…for me, what he said was just too blunt and way too painful to hear, I would have just shut down..that convo would have ended very badly with us both saying things we’d later come to regret…instead, later, in time, after I’d softened toward him again, (in that convo, before what he said about not regretting Liam, I already was softening toward him again) I would come to see with his actions toward Liam that he considers him just as much his child as all his other kids, and at that point I think it wouldn’t be as much of a shock

          • But I know Phil is a blunt guy, he says what’s on his mind and doesn’t mince words..it’s just in that particular moment, his bluntness would have cost him dearly LOL (if that were me )

          • What I remember about that scene the most is that he says…I regret how he was conceived…he regrets Kim, but he can’t regret Liam, he’s right that is his son. He even son I wished he was yours….Phil wasn’t being malicious, just honest.

          • Hi Tracie 🙂 I agree that he wasn’t being malicious..he was very succinct and just trying to get his point across…for me (putting myself in Lina’s shoes) his honesty was just too much in that moment, as I was still feeling resentful enough already..I think his intention was good, to try to be clear with Lina, so she knew what to expect, but it just would’ve soured me too much then and there…I think in time, as the shock of Liam’s birth wore off, I would become more open and understanding…but we don’t always time what we say perfectly lol…if we did there would be far more happy marriages! haha

          • in that same convo, Lina had only just learned that Liam had already been born…although she knew his birth was inevitable, I think it was still a sucker punch to hear it confirmed

          • I agree with you Miri on the sucker punch…but do you remember in the baseball scene where Phil said he wasn’t lying to her anymore? He had hope In getting Lina back after Christmas and even though it hurt them both so much to have that conversation, he had to be honest with her on how he felt. I think that’s why he didn’t talk with her for several days afterwards because he knew how it devastated her, but he also knew if he had any chance with her, she had to know where he stood with Liam. It broke his heart as well….

          • Tracie I understand where he was coming from, I really do…but as a friend of mine has said to me in the past, ‘honesty is a lonely word’…sometimes too much honesty in the wrong moment can sever ties forever…for me, that would’ve been to much to take…for Lina, she was able to get past it, and was eventually reunited with her Phil for it…

          • I can respect that Miri…I would of been hurt too..:but I could see where he was coming from and I would of had to allow it all to soak in too! However, I’m the type where I don’t like to be spoon fed, give me the big gulp…That’s just the way I cope and handle things…my thought process after that would have been do I love him more than I hurt?

          • Tracie the big gulp would’ve done me in for sure lol! At that point I’d have been seconds away from a nervous breakdown…

            In that scene, it’s not so much that I would change what he said to Lina; I brought up that scene as my scene extension choice because I wanted to hear what Lina had to say to him after he said he didn’t regret Liam…but Laura asked me how else in my opinion he could’ve handled it/said (so as not to hurt Lina so much)..I think there’s no other way he could have said it so it wouldn’t hurt, so if it was me it would’ve been better for him to just not say it at all; in time I’d have calmed down somewhat and gotten the memo on my own…but for dramatic effect, that scene wouldn’t have been nearly as powerful and emotional if he hadn’t said exactly what he said…it’s just if I could choose to extend a scene, I would’ve loved for Lina to deliver a verbal smackdown after that haha!

          • I see how you are thinking doll…It was tough, Laura even said she would probably say “I hate you.” I think about what Holley said too, about what were Phil’s nights like alone and hurting. I wonder if after that conversation, if he thought it was probably over, but like he said he prayed for God to bring her back to him, so he still had hope!

          • Tracie, Phil is not a man who gives up…that can be infuriating sometimes but it’s also what makes him a winner…any other man would’ve lost Lina with these kinds of shenanigans lol…but as we’ve said before, where’s Lina gonna find another Phil hunter?

    • Hi Tracie! Good question! I can’t think of any. I think Laura covered everything fore me in SN. I know Laura feels ill when writing scenes between Phil and Kim but I would love WPF from Phil’s POV. I think it can read like a different book since many of the scenes were Lina and Phil doing their own thing. I know I won’t get it because too many of Phil’s scenes would include Kim.

      • Phil POV from Steamboat?

        I wouldn’t mind hearing Phil POV when Lina tells him that Katie came downstairs to join the family while watching tv. Phil knows he was away from home with Kim and he wasn’t there to witness his daughter taking a huge step towards recovery.

        Wonder if the guilt hit him…Lina mentioned this the morning after they reconnected. While he was sexin Kim in a different city. Katie did this while he wasn’t there.

        Oh, I wouldn’t mind hearing Phil POV in SN when he tells his children he’s coming home and they not overly thrilled. Must have hurt a lot since he was so desperate to move back home.

    • Hi Tracie,
      For my extended scene #1, I would have wanted to know what happened to Phil during separation, what was his day and nights like? What was in his head?
      #2, after Lina saw the texts between Phil and Lina, Phil called her and said “dont lose sight of fact that I love you.” It was one of the few times in the book where Lina was cold to Phil, no anger but her pain was there. What happened when Phil got home that night and next day?

      • Holley, in your #2, I found that scene much more frustrating than the scene where he says he doesn’t regret Liam. At that point, he could have said I love you til the cows came home, his bags would have been packed and by the curb, maybe with the pink tie tied around the handle, like a bow. But then of course, if it were me telling the story, we might not have made it to SN, and I love that book.

      • OOOh Holley you’re right! I would have loved an extension of your #2 (after Lina sees the texts)…at that point she saw the texts but they were still living together, she hadn’t thrown him out yet…did they go to bed together? Did they avoid each other? Did they talk about it more or just ignored the elephant in the room?

        • Miri,
          Maybe Laura will re-release the book one day with new scenes to maybe include some deleted scenes to fill in. I would stay up all night reading it ?? especially where Lina smacks down Phil during the conversation about Liam.

    • I’m not sure if I need a scene extended, maybe more of Katie and Logan’s reactions to their having full custody of Liam.

      Not extending a scene, but in WPF, I wonder where the story would have gone if after finding the pictures, Lina went to Adele instead of Nick. How would that have changed the dynamic of the story?

      • I think Phil wouldn’t have been as angry and wouldn’t have been a jerk to Lina on the day he packed and moved out..plus he wouldn’t have broken his hand lol! I think he would’ve far more conciliatory toward Lina and tried more to see her and talk to her in the months that they were separated…instead he was like a wounded bear (literally) and lashing out because of it (because of his jealousy and hurt at the thought of Lina with Nick)…BUT I was happy that things happened the way they did…Phil deserved to have to experience jealousy and anger and fear (of losing lina to someone else)…

  42. So what happened to the ugly pink tie?

    I think Lina did wash it and packed it in his cupboard. Probably got shoved to the back. I dont think Phil notice it until he was unpacking his bag at Farside house. He probably wanted to use it to strangle Kim neck.

    Was the excuse he gave Lina the truth regarding the tie? Did he think Kim organise a tie because he messed food on his other tie? Did he wake up and realise kim must have bought it as a gift since Lina mentioned the tie not from a shop in NY.

    • Good Morning Girls…BeeSA when Phil was packing to leave, that tie probably got thrown in the Master Suite fireplace and burned, just like the pictures. Phil never wore that tie again after the first time. My opinion only. I can assure you it never made it back to his wardrobe when he moved back in with Lina.

      • Good question BeeSA!! That tie better not be seen again ever!! I vote it got destroyed by Phil when he was packing one-handed to move out!

    • so SA stands for South Africa? Cool beans! Laura’s fans are all over the world!!

      That darn tie. I think Lina threw it away but Phil probably didn’t even notice. The tie discussion went on for awhile. Someone asked why Phil would wear it if it didn’t mean anything to him and Laura said to look for a stain on the tie he originally wore. So basically Phil didn’t bring an extra tie to NY and voila Kim had a gift for him.

      • Yep, South Africa.

        I think i missed the discussion aboutthe the tie. I always wondered if Kim gave it to Phil as a gift from her.

        I prefer Phil getting rid of the tie.

  43. Hello Laura! What does Phil smell like? LOL. What about Nick? Do they use cologne or after shave? I don’t remember if I asked you before. And Phil always says “you smell so good” to Lina. Is he talking about her hair/perfume/pheromone/ all three?

    • Janet – from chapter 29 in WPF…when Lina went to stay with Nick after receiving the photos from Kim…”it wasn’t Phil’s mixture of soap, woodsy aftershave and the unique smell that was him. Nick’s smell, like the rest of him, had a refined quality. He smelled of a mixture of soap, mint and lavender.”…
      Yeah now I’m also curious about how Lina smells ? ..are we being weird?? Lol

      • Oh yes! I love smell of soap, mint, and lavender. dammmmnnnn. Phil is so woodsy. Perfect. hahaha. Kim probably wears chanel no 5. and Katie said before Lina probably wears essential oils.

        • Or, Kim maybe wears Obsession…cause she’s one crazy obsessed bitch!! Haha ?? Hmmm yes, I can see that about Lina….scent is so important…it can beguile you or totally just turn you right off

          • Kim smell did use to turn him on.
            Probably was only her perfume he liked at the time. Now just a trigger. I doubt he ever notice her own personal smell besides her perfume.

        • When Phil talks about her scent, I think it’s a mixture of everything…perfume plus her natural smell plus probably hair or skin product, plus pheromones…

          • You are so right about Lina. LOL. Regarding Kim- the scent must be distinctive since it made Phil sick in SN. ?.

          • One scene where he’s smelling Lina and says she smells good. She replies “Adele bodywash” Phil “no, its you”.
            Something along those lines…

  44. I have a question too. We know that Phil attended church during the affair. Do you guys think if the fidelity sermon was delivered 2 months before the affair ended would it have triggered Phil’s conscience? I do.

    • I do too! Her took Lina’s hand in his in the church scene in WPF. I think he had so much regret and guilt. I also think it probably bothered him in WPF, when Logan said “you make us go to church and you don’t even follow what they say.” Phil took blow after blow for his actions, which he himself admitted he deserved, but he did find solace in his church and God. He made amends and adjustments to help his family heal and while again to include Liam. Phil was Phil but he did put Lina’s happiness above his own in SN, you saw that after he finally gave in about her traveling and said he would deal with it, if she was happy that’s all that mattered. Swoon!

    • You don’t think he would have paid attention and not switched off? Refusing to listen. Must have been very tense between Lina and Phil at Church – pretending to be a happy couple out in public.

  45. Good Morning Ladies, I have a wonder question???? How do you think the conversation went with Kim and her parents after Phil took Liam to the park? The icy greeting he received from Evelyn, it probably didn’t go very well.

    Laura you on vacation??? Miss you!

    • Tracie, I’d like to have been a fly on that wall! She’s an adult and doesn’t have to justify her behavior, but wow, Mom and Dad must have been shocked and saddened, and she probably didn’t tell the truth anyway. When Phil storms into her house after the yoga incident, kim’ Sister doesn’t seem all that shocked by Kim’s behavior

    • Hi Tracie. I’m sure Kim didn’t listen to her parents growing up. They told her one thing, Kim nods, then did what she wanted. She soared in academics or whatever she pursued so her parents pretty much left her alone. She must have just said Phil was going to separate then decided against it? What do you think?

      • I was thinking about when her father said “What kind of man would move his mistress close to his wife and family?” Then Phil’s confused response back to him. How he didn’t meet her until she went to work at his firm. Right then her family knew what she had done, they had too. I thought to myself her dad would of turned on her and said “What the hell did you do?” Their respect for Phil at that point was probably none.” I would hope they gave him some credit for being an involved father. Her sister knew what she had done. I also wonder what her parents thought in the Epilogue, when Kim didn’t show up to Liam’s graduation.

  46. Ladies, over the weekend I read a book that should have been a wallbanger, but strangely worked for me, it took to the very last page, but it stayed with me. The Deepest Sigh by Naomi Musch. It historical, set during WW I, and clean, it’s labeled Christian but not too preachy. Lots of angst, not a cheating story, and the hero’s an idiot through most of the book. The more I think about it, it shouldn’t have worked. It’s KU. I’d love to hear other opinions. I feel like I’m wrong about this one. I posted this down below by accident.

    • Tara, I can’t with the Christian then you add War on top of it. I swear when the authors whip out scriptures with the characters inner thoughts I’m jerked out of that scene and I feel like I’m being lectured by my mom. God is my savior but romance books keep me sane so I want to just keep them separate.

      • I have to say, this book wasn’t bad, there were no scripture references. Normally, the scripture thing makes me crazy.

    • Lacrosse is growing in my area, we have several friends who have children (boys and girls) on full ride scholarships to D1 and D2 schools.

      • I see they tried to introduce Lacrosse where im from. They started a Lacrosse Project but doesnt look like it took off. We all about the soccer, rugby and cricket.

          • Umhlanga, South Africa.

            Looks like it could be fun to play, but I’ve never been good at sports that involes a stick or racket.

  47. Yes. I love Rachel Gibson too! Ive read her books 20 years ago.Does she write anymore? Her books makes me happy just like SEP. My favorite is Nobody’s Baby but Mine and Heaven Texas(both are Chicago Stars series). i reread them once a year.

    • I used to read her, I don’t know why I stopped. Wasn’t she the first to do hockey romances? I love SEP too, even the dreaded This Heart of Mine, though many readers think Molly took advantage of Kevin, while he was sleeping.

      • I don’t know how my post got up here when I commented to Miri’s below. And yes, the NHL. I think Gibson and SEP started the whole sports trope trend.

        BeeSA, are you talking about a AL Jackson novel? As usual I don’t remember the title but does the girlfriend have a baby and they are apart for 5years or so?

        • No baby involved in the story.

          One scene i remember. The h walks to her dorm room and sees the H friend standing outside her dorm door. She hears moaning and walks in and sees the H zip up his pants and her roommate / friend still on her knees.

          I’m almost certain they were secretly married but no one knew.

          End of the book, the H corners the h in a room and wants to know why she cheated and destroyed their love, but then they overhear their friend confess to another girl that the h never cheated on the H. It was a setup.

  48. Thankyou Janet for the name and hey Holley thanks for revealing about the good wife story..I think I might read it..I want to read as many cheating novels as possible ?

    • Have you read Slip of the Tongue? I quite enjoyed that book. Almost reminds me of Lina and Phil situation.

      • The books are similar in the couples had stopped communicating. She’s the cheater and it’s told from her perspective. It’s been awhile since I read it, but what I remember, I found her unlikable, not just because she cheats, she was whiny and feeling sorry for herself, she wasn’t getting her husband’s attention and she turned to someone else for it. I wasn’t convinced she wouldn’t do it again.

        • She was a bit whiny but she tried just about everything to get him to open up. So i couldn’t fault her.

          Loved the playful ending though.

      • Help. Cheating novel.

        Anyone read a book about young college couple (think they were secretly married) who lived together. The h was home alone while the H would go to house parties after the game (can’t remember what sport game he played). One night she rocked up and saw at the house party with a girl – no cheating on his side, but she thought he was. She walked away to get a drink. Next thing, she woke up in bed with one of his teammates in bed and has no memory. The H catches her and believe he cheated on her. Then follows a series of revenge on his side – cheats on her in front of her, calls her names and teases her. She moved out and went to stay at the college dorm.

        Been searching on google for ages but no luck.

  49. Anyone remembers about the anniversary of Phill and Lina …Laura added that scene in deleted scenes…Phill was still having affair then..he gifted Lina some jewelry …I wonder is that what triggered him to slow down his visits with kim…eventhough the scene is deleted their anniversary would be real no?

    • Was the visits slowing down?
      I’m sure he was planning on seeing kim the following day at their morning run club and then flying to Chicago with her. Already had two consecutive days with kim planned up literally a day after their anniversary. If i remember the scene correctly…

      I can picture Phil with the ring in his pocket while texting kim regarding their saturday and sunday plans. Blegh!

      • I actually can’t see that, I think Phil avoided triggers, that would have been a trigger. Steamboat was a trigger, the tie was a trigger. I think if he allowed himself to think about what he was doing, the guilt would have eaten at him. He’s arrogant, single minded, always right, but also basically a good man that did something that almost ruined his and his families lives.

          • Almost pro-Phil ?

            If I’d only read WPF, I’d still be an anti-Phil. I’ll always be pro-Lina. We only see Phil from Lina’s perspective and the dialogue between them. By the end of WPF, she’s not moving on and wants to make it work, I followed the story there, whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant. It’s Lina’s story, not mine.

            SN gives a more complete picture of Phil, I don’t have to be completely pro-Phil to see he’s basically a good man, that made really bad decisions for 4 months.